Support NeoGAF

[West Texas CEO]

A really good friend of mine is a member of an American Baptist church. We met in high school, so I've known her for 8 years.

She is the kindest, friendliest and most considerate person you'll ever meet. For the last several months she's been confiding in me that she's been bullied by some people within the church, and one of them is the pastor's wife.

It has come to the point that she and her family want to change church.

Does bulling actually happen in churches? I've never been a church goer and did not grow up in that scenario.

I understand bullies can be found everywhere people are, and I believe her, but find it hard to except the fact that people who say they live by the fruits of the spirit, can actually be quite mean and gossipy. If so, why bother attending church? Is it only for socializing?

And which denomination is the craziest?

 

[kanjobazooie]

but find it hard to except the fact that people who say they live by the fruits of the spirit, can actually be quite mean and gossipy. If so, why bother attending church?

They lack self-awareness (or whatever it's called).

 

[funkygunther]

That’s really too bad, especially if she relies on the church for her well-being but it’s hard to answer your why without knowing way more about the situation.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

My friend in middle school used to take me to his Wednesday night youth group at his church. It was dreadful. Lots of sanctimonious testimony about how "we're blessed and everyone else is going to hell". Really turned me off of religion and spirituality for a long time.

It wasn't until I met my wife that I realized that spirituality can make you a better person that tries to lift others up, instead of pull others down.

 

[Meicyn]

Grew up forced to attend services at a Korean baptist church. There is absolutely a ton of church politics and drama. You don’t have to be fluent in Korean to figure out who doesn’t like whom. Body language and tone conveys a lot, and Koreans tend to be upfront about how they feel. Verbal bullying happened all the time.

Even during the formal church service, you could see that it’s a competition to see who can be more holy. The prayer segments were always super awkward since folks aren’t silent, so it always devolved into people doing their fake crying, or vocalizing their platitudes louder than their adjacent church goers.

I didn’t understand Korean at the time so I would actually read the Bible. Didn’t take me long to see the incredible amounts of hypocrisy going on. The routine public prayer alone contradicted Matthew 6, so I just did what I needed to do and then stopped going to church when I became an adult.

Bullying at that church peaked at one point, that they managed to push the then-pastor out of the church entirely. The pastor was on his knees begging to stay but several of the members who were pushing him out held their ground while the pastor’s daughters were crying. Cold-hearted to the core.

 

[PaddyOCanager]

A really good friend of mine is a member of an American Baptist church. We met in high school, so I've known her for 8 years.

She is the kindest, friendliest and most considerate person you'll ever meet. For the last several months she's been confiding in me that she's been bullied by some people within the church, and one of them is the pastor's wife.

It has come to the point that she and her family want to change church.

Does bulling actually happen in churches? I've never been a church goer and did not grow up in that scenario.

I understand bullies can be found everywhere people are, and I believe her, but find it hard to except the fact that people who say they live by the fruits of the spirit, can actually be quite mean and gossipy. If so, why bother attending church? Is it only for socializing?

And which denomination is the craziest?

Of course it happens.

There are positions of power in churches, and where there is power you'll find bullying. Also, people argue over interpretations of THE WORD OF GOD and stances the church should take on social/political issues. People who don't fall in line get bullied out in some congregations. Churches have influxes as well as exoduses of members all the time over petty shit.

I was raised Protestant, in a fantastic church. However, my parents pulled our family out after 18 years because the greater denomination (United Church of Christ aka UCC) supported gay marriage. After that I pretty much had no use for organized religion and prefer to just stick with my individual faith.

 

[Mossybrew]

Not a churchgoers but not surprised, any organization you're going to have heirarchys, ingroups, cliques, people who are favored and people who are shunned for whatever mundane reasons.

 

[AJUMP23]

Calvinist bully everyone they disagree with.

But yes people in churches gossip and treat people with a lack of respect. They can be mean and cold and shun others. Leaders can ostracize, and cliques form like any organization.

Yes you can be bullied, but you also need to confront and make amends. If a person does not listen, then you confront with another person attending.

 

[VN1X]

A really good friend of mine is a member of an American Baptist church. We met in high school, so I've known her for 8 years.

She is the kindest, friendliest and most considerate person you'll ever meet. For the last several months she's been confiding in me that she's been bullied by some people within the church, and one of them is the pastor's wife.

It has come to the point that she and her family want to change church.

Does bulling actually happen in churches? I've never been a church goer and did not grow up in that scenario.

I understand bullies can be found everywhere people are, and I believe her, but find it hard to except the fact that people who say they live by the fruits of the spirit, can actually be quite mean and gossipy. If so, why bother attending church? Is it only for socializing?

And which denomination is the craziest?

I switched from Catholic to Baptist recently but in both communities I thankfully haven't seen or experienced any sort of bullying. Sucks that that has happened for your friend though. Hope she gets through this shitty time. :/

 

[MikeM]

Humans are still humans, regardless of what book they believe in.

Sucks to hear. Maybe someone should speak to the pastor’s wife and call her out on it?

 

[Grildon Tundy]

In elementary/middle school, I went to a church with none of my schoolmates and all the kids my age all went to another school together. I got bullied/left out a lot.

I distinctly remember playing with one kid, having fun, when he stopped and said, "I'm not supposed to talk to you" and left. Not sure if that was his parents, other kids, or someone else who had told him that. What's missing from this anecdote is an objective view of my behavior. Maybe they made the right call lol

 

[ahtlas7]

I think “Church” has become something it wasn’t meant to be, maybe I’m wrong.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I think “Church” has become something it wasn’t meant to be, maybe I’m wrong.

I started reading the New Testament a while back, and Jesus spoke out against the kind of power that churches exist to accumulate. I don't go to church mainly because of that (plus I'm lazy and like my Sunday mornings spent elsewhere)

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I understand bullies can be found everywhere people are, and I believe her, but find it hard to except the fact that people who say they live by the fruits of the spirit, can actually be quite mean and gossipy. If so, why bother attending church? Is it only for socializing?

You are aware Church committed unspeakable acts against tens of thousands of children, women, etc. over decades if not centuries?

Raping kids? Check
Taking children away from mothers and forcefully giving them for adoption? Check

Mother Theresa - unspeakably cruel woman - is revered as a saint by the Catholic Church.

It blows my mind Nazi party was banned and dissolved but not the Catholic Church.

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

- My mother recently got into a squabble with one of our Church members overseas. It had nothing to do with church, but the way she tried to underhand us and claim our property overseas was vile, and something you wouldn't expect a person of moral high-ground would do.

- It doesn't matter if they're blood-related/church-goers, if they live in a poor country, people will surprise you with their morals, or lack thereof, just so that they can gain the upper hand on you to your detriment.

- Apparently, God really cares about how you dress going to Church.

- Whoever sings the loudest is the most devout, to the point where everyone's not focused on making it sound beautiful. At that point, everyone just sounds like they're shouting. Fucking lunacy.

Lastly, I'm not religious, but these past few years made me realize the importance of having some framework of morality for normal folk. But it begs the question: if a higher being is holding you back and telling you what is and isn't right, can you really claim a moral high-ground?

 

[mitch1971]

Religion is bullying.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

I listen to video game OST's during work, and the YouTube algorithm decided I might be interested in a 6-hour mix of people singing in tongues over the same ambient track. Absolutely bizarre.

It first popped up when I left YouTube running and volume up after stepping away, and it blew out my speakers.

 

[diffusionx]

I started reading the New Testament a while back, and Jesus spoke out against the kind of power that churches exist to accumulate. I don't go to church mainly because of that (plus I'm lazy and like my Sunday mornings spent elsewhere)

Jesus, though, (A) founded a church, and (B) understood the infallible ways of man.

People lose sight of the message, simple as.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Lastly, I'm not religious, but these past few years made me realize the importance of having some framework of morality for normal folk.

Do atheists are like aliens to you people? Were pagans just murdering each other all the time?

The argument ‘you need religion to be a good man’ is stupid AF.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Religion can be a good anchor for some people and provide purpose in life. It can also be a vehicle for abuse for holier-than-thou, insecure assholes...or predators, etc. Unfortunately, it often seems like it's more of a negative than a positive. My family's history is with both Southern Baptists and Mormons and....both churches suck ass IMO. I've got lifelong friends from church growing up, but the actual institutions can burn in hell for all I care.

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

Do atheists are like aliens to you people? Were pagans just murdering each other all the time?

The argument ‘you need religion to be a good man’ is stupid AF.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but let me clarify the statement I made:

If I had to pick for society between religion or the hedonistic, overindulgent, and delusional society we have today, I'd pick the former. It's simply the lesser of two evils.

Religion isn't without it's flaws, but at least it has some kind of restraint.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Only time I've been in a church is for weddings and wakes.

But hey. If someone wants to spend time and donating to the collection plate so the priest can drive a Mercedes go ahead.

In all the time spent doing religion and church visits, someone could pick up some life or career skills to improve themselves. Or just hang out with family and take care of the kids. No priest needed. You did it yourself and going forward you improved yourself.

 

[simpatico]

Most American churches are just social clubs. I'd look for a new place of worship. If you're running into this problem there, it's probably a sign that it's not a very good church.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Pentecostal/Apostolic/Holiness churches have this bad. Leadership is given way to much power and they often abuse it.

 

[mclaren777]

I guess it all comes down to your definition of bullying. Christians are called to encourage, exhort, admonish, and rebuke each other. I'll provide definitions below, but some people could interpret those things as bullying. Likewise, it's possible that the bully is doing one of these helpful things poorly.

• encourage: help or stimulate (an activity, state, or view) to develop
• exhort: strongly encourage or urge someone to do something
• admonish: warn or reprimand someone firmly
• rebuke: express sharp disapproval of someone's behavior

 

[Mondai]

A really good friend of mine is a member of an American Baptist church. We met in high school, so I've known her for 8 years.

She is the kindest, friendliest and most considerate person you'll ever meet. For the last several months she's been confiding in me that she's been bullied by some people within the church, and one of them is the pastor's wife.

It has come to the point that she and her family want to change church.

Does bulling actually happen in churches? I've never been a church goer and did not grow up in that scenario.

I understand bullies can be found everywhere people are, and I believe her, but find it hard to except the fact that people who say they live by the fruits of the spirit, can actually be quite mean and gossipy. If so, why bother attending church? Is it only for socializing?

And which denomination is the craziest?

Religious people are the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but let me clarify the statement I made:

If I had to pick for society between religion or the hedonistic, overindulgent, and delusional society we have today, I'd pick the former. It's simply the lesser of two evils.

Religion isn't without it's flaws, but at least it has some kind of restraint.

Good point. Both traditional faith and secular faith can very much be "holier than thou," but one nice aspect of traditional religions is they typically have a holy book such as the Bible which you can reference to point out when people being are hypocritical and ignoring massively important aspects of their own faith.

"Judge not, least ye be judged." "Worry about the plank in your own eye." "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone."

Unfortunately modern secular holier than thou has none of that. And to the OP, I'm sorry to hear it. Some people use religion to look down on others, and it's a shame that it happens. As an example of the other side of that coin, I saw this video a while back, and it struck me as a great example of the sort of genuine integrity that can come from actually practicing what you preach. It's a great example of religion being used for forgiveness and support, rather than to judge and ostracize.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Bitches transcend religion

 

[brettski2024]

Lots of angry anti church comments here. I have found that you cant always expect people to live up to your expectations, even fellow church goers.

However, pretty much everyone I know who attends church is trying to be a good person for the most part in their life and be loving and kind to others. That being said yeah there can be the same problems in a church you find anywhere else.

Lots of painting with broad brushes in this thread sheesh

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Religion isn't without its flaws, but at least it has some kind of restraint.

Again, do you see atheists giving in to their carnal desires and being overall despicable people? No. Religion has nothing to do with morality.

 

[Rush2112]

sounds like a great name for game

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

Again, do you see atheists giving in to their carnal desires and being overall despicable people? No. Religion has nothing to do with morality.

Maybe I haven't been paying attention these past 6+ years, but I'm pretty sure this emergence of SJWs and the Alphabets are the result of secular ideas being in the forefront of society; so yes, I do see them enacting despicable behaviour. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Religion at least provides a foundation. What does secularism provide? Gay pride month? LOLOLOLOLOL.

 

[funkygunther]

Maybe I haven't been paying attention these past 6+ years, but I'm pretty sure this emergence of SJWs and the Alphabets are the result of secular ideas being in the forefront of society; so yes, I do see them enacting despicable behaviour. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Religion at least provides a foundation. What does secularism provide? Gay pride month? LOLOLOLOLOL.

Until you provide evidence of despicable behaviour and how that has anything to do with "secular ideas", which you will need to define, of course you're wrong. The easiest thing for you when extolling the virtues of faith would be to actually extoll the virtues of faith and not try and get into an argument about how you just dont like gays or SJWs.

 

[01011001]

Stop going to church. that helps with many things not only avoiding bullies

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Maybe I haven't been paying attention these past 6+ years, but I'm pretty sure this emergence of SJWs and the Alphabets are the result of secular ideas being in the forefront of society; so yes, I do see them enacting despicable behaviour. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Religion at least provides a foundation. What does secularism provide? Gay pride month? LOLOLOLOLOL.

How did you manage to link social media and narcissism with secular values?

 

[01011001]

Religion at least provides a foundation. What does secularism provide? Gay pride month? LOLOLOLOLOL.

hey! all those priests deserve to have their own month and be recognised.
and their own religion doesn't provide that for them.

 

[IFireflyl]

Again, do you see atheists giving in to their carnal desires and being overall despicable people? No. Religion has nothing to do with morality.

My problem with atheistic morality is that it is subjective. There is no firm foundation for an objective right or wrong. The Vikings would rape and murder, and that wasn't considered an immoral to them. They didn't even see non-Vikings as humans. You, as an atheist, likely see rape and murder as immoral acts, but that is solely due to your culture and upbringing. The Bible, however, is very clear on what is considered immoral, and this hasn't changed over the last ~2,000 years.

Now, that isn't to say that the people who believe, or who claim to believe, in the Bible followed the tenets of the Bible properly. They did not, and they do not. God presented Himself to Israel so many times in the Old Testament, and they still violated His laws over and over. People are sinful. We have desires of the flesh that we succumb to. Every single Christian fails to live up to the image of Christ. That doesn't mean that we should give up trying to be like Jesus. But it also doesn't mean you can point to Christians (or "so-called Christians") who are engaged in immorality and use that as some sort of evidence that Jesus/God isn't real. The entire purpose of Jesus dying on the cross was to deliver us from the punishment that sin brings, which is the separation from God.

TL;DR - While atheists can behave morally, there is no objective morality with them, and morality changes with time, culture, and et cetera. Atheists 500 years from now might look back at the current-day world and say that certain things we are currently doing are immoral, even though atheists today may not consider those actions to be immoral. If you think that morality is subjective, what's the point of even discussing it?

 

[01011001]

TL;DR - While atheists can behave morally, there is no objective morality with them, and morality changes with time, culture, and et cetera. Atheists 500 years from now might look back at the current-day world and say that certain things we are currently doing are immoral, even though atheists today may not consider those actions to be immoral. If you think that morality is subjective, what's the point of even discussing it?

you described literally every religion on earth dude.

if Christians lived by the words of the Bible we would have a vastly different society.

but then again, that shitty fantasy book contradicts itself so many times that noone would know what to do...

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

How did you manage to link social media and narcissism with secular values?

Again, correct me if I'm wrong. Your rhetorical questions bore the hell out of me.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Again, correct me if I'm wrong. Your rhetorical questions bore the hell out of me.

Not going to continue, the problem with religious people is just that - they are religious, no argument will convince you otherwise, you are sure of your moral supremacy.

 

[ConkerTheSquirrel.]

Not going to continue, the problem with religious people is just that - they are religious, no argument will convince you otherwise, you are sure of your moral supremacy.

Lastly, I'm not religious,

 

[Cyberpunkd]

TL;DR - While atheists can behave morally, there is no objective morality with them, and morality changes with time, culture, and et cetera. Atheists 500 years from now might look back at the current-day world and say that certain things we are currently doing are immoral, even though atheists today may not consider those actions to be immoral. If you think that morality is subjective, what's the point of even discussing it?

Man, I guess the Church is still saying crusades or witch-hunts were perfectly fine and justified. Wait a minute…

 

[Cyberpunkd]

You’ve been arguing in favour or religion-based morality, make up your goddamn mind.

 

[cormack12]

 

[IFireflyl]

you described literally every religion on earth dude.

Okay?

if Christians lived by the words of the Bible we would have a vastly different society.

I completely agree.

but then again, that shitty fantasy book contradicts itself so many times that noone would know what to do...

Was the whole purpose of your post from the start to be a douche? Or did you start off thinking you had a good point, but then you decided you didn't care if you were an asshole?

 

[IFireflyl]

Man, I guess the Church is still saying crusades or witch-hunts were perfectly fine and justified. Wait a minute…

Yes, wait a minute... And while you're waiting, maybe you should re-read my post.

Now, that isn't to say that the people who believe, or who claim to believe, in the Bible followed the tenets of the Bible properly. They did not, and they do not. God presented Himself to Israel so many times in the Old Testament, and they still violated His laws over and over. People are sinful. We have desires of the flesh that we succumb to. Every single Christian fails to live up to the image of Christ. That doesn't mean that we should give up trying to be like Jesus. But it also doesn't mean you can point to Christians (or "so-called Christians") who are engaged in immorality and use that as some sort of evidence that Jesus/God isn't real. The entire purpose of Jesus dying on the cross was to deliver us from the punishment that sin brings, which is the separation from God.

This is what's really ironic:

Again, do you see atheists giving in to their carnal desires and being overall despicable people?

Yes. Yes I do. For example, you couldn't suppress your desire to post a "gotcha" response, so you ignored my full post in order to get a quick jab at Christianity. Maybe you don't find that kind of behavior "despicable", but this is where your subjective morality fails.

 

[Lasha]

Again, do you see atheists giving in to their carnal desires and being overall despicable people? No. Religion has nothing to do with morality.

Atheists from Athiest cultures sure. China probably has the most athiests on earth. Chinese men collect mistresses as a hobby. The Government had to crack down hard on cities like Chang Ping which were essentially massive brothels. Lying, cheating, and stealing are all proof of guile if one isn't caught.

Athiests in the west are molded by the values of their society which have been heavily influenced by Christianity. Where the values and shame of Christianity still exist.

 

[Joramun]

Atheists from Athiest cultures sure. China probably has the most athiests on earth. Chinese men collect mistresses as a hobby. The Government had to crack down hard on cities like Chang Ping which were essentially massive brothels. Lying, cheating, and stealing are all proof of guile if one isn't caught.

Athiests in the west are molded by the values of their society which have been heavily influenced by Christianity. Where the values and shame of Christianity still exist.

Incorrect. It was only in 1949 that Mao Zedong established atheism as the official "religion" of the People's Republic of China. Government employees are expected to be atheists but regular Chinese don't have to be. A majority of the Chinese population follow Chinese folk religion.

 

[Lasha]

Incorrect. It was only in 1949 that Mao Zedong established atheism as the official "religion" of the People's Republic of China. Government employees are expected to be atheists but regular Chinese don't have to be. A majority of the Chinese population follow Chinese folk religion.

You're right. The PRC is a bastion of theism.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Not going to continue, the problem with religious people is just that - they are religious, no argument will convince you otherwise, you are sure of your moral supremacy.

I'm religious and I don't feel morally superior because of it. In fact, I can't stand that sort of attitude. It was my rejection of religious people being judgemental and "holier than thou" that caused me to distance myself from those aspects of religion, and why I can't stand to see them gaining so much popularity outside of religion these days.

But look who I'm talking to. If I remember correctly, the reason you're here is the result of the secular form of "holier than thou."

So how about being critical of the behavior, not the source? Why put groups into figurative boxes and say "these are the really bad ones, though!"?