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CIVILIZATION VI |OT| He's Got the Whole World in His Hands

Uh, probably not the most appropriate place to ask... But is there an OT for Endless Legend on GAF?

On topic, the trade-off of getting a purple slot for a red slot is really nice for Poland. I haven't been able to make much use of Golden Liberty, but I've taken at least 2 tiles with it so far :p I'm assuming I want to forward settle a little harder than usual?
 
If I'm playing on a surface pro 4, i7 and 8gb ram and I'm looking for the most balanced and complete experience. Should I get V Complete or VI?
 

Matt_

World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
Well if the US gets attacked by China tomorrow and in retaliation totally levels Beijing, wouldn't they be penalized too?

You know I never thought of it like that before
Guess you're right
 
john_curtin_hero.jpg

Summary:

Australia - John Curtin
UA: Land Down Under - Cities gain extra housing when built on Coastal tiles. Campuses, Commercial Districts, Holy Sites, and Theater Squares gain additional yields when built on tiles with charming or breathtaking appeal.

Citadel of Civilization - 100% Production if Australia received a Declaration of War within the past 10 turns, or if they liberated a city in the past 20 turns

UU: Digger - Replaces Infantry. Combat bonus when fighting on tiles adjacent to water and when fighting in outside territory.

UI: Outback Station - Unlocks with Guilds civic. Can be upgraded with Steam Power and Rapid Deployment. Provides Food and Production. Bonus Food for adjacent Pastures. Improving Pastures steals tiles from other Civs, City-States (as long as there's no district).
 
Australia look quite fun. I do like civs that specialise around certain terrains and I do like building near the sea so they do appeal. Plus the massive production increase in defensive wars sounds potentially quite hilarious. That said, I am still unlikely to get them till the first major discount on dlc content.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Huh, that's new! They look really potent, and I like that culture bombing is in again with another civ. Culture bombing for everyone! Everyone!!
 

Maledict

Member
Couldn't care less about a new civ, all I want to see are the balance and AI updates. The AI can't coherently use the existing civs or game mechanics, and I'd like the higher difficulties to be more than 'the AI gets 2 free cities at the start for you to capture'.
 

Maledict

Member
Everyone's going to DoW you anyway, so may as well roll with it and steal as much territory as possible as fast as possible!

The bonuses based on appeal is interesting - that system is currently under utilised and quite opaque, so bringing it more to the forefront for a civ will be good.
 

beinfilms

Member
Honestly, I'm mostly just excited to finally get workshop support.

By the way, if anyone doesn't have Civ 4, you can get it for $1 on Humble Bundle right now. It remains my favorite Civ game to date.
 

jman2050

Member
Workshop and mod tools almost undoubtedly means we're finally getting the SDK.

Now actually modding this game for real can begin in earnest.
 
Just flicked through the Outback Tycoon play through they did on their YouTube channel and at the end they reveal that the final piece of free dlc for the deluxe edition will be duel civilisation.
 

beinfilms

Member
So, in case you haven't noticed, apparently the update is just already out, including Australia. A bit early for a "summer" update, but I'm not complaining.
 

Anno

Member
So, in case you haven't noticed, apparently the update is just already out, including Australia. A bit early for a "summer" update, but I'm not complaining.

It's Australian Summer!

Still baffled it took them this long to roll out Workshop support and full modding tools, but hey at least it's finally here.
 

beinfilms

Member
It's Australian Summer!

Still baffled it took them this long to roll out Workshop support and full modding tools, but hey at least it's finally here.

Fair enough. Still unexpected from a studio based out of Maryland.

I totally agree. It took them way too long (didn't V have it at launch?), but at least it's there. Looking forward to seeing what people far more talented than me can do.

EDIT: Just saw this in the pach notes:
Added True Start Location feature, where civs start on the world map at their geographic origin.

All is forgiven. I fucking love TSL
 

spiritfox

Member
Oh number of trade routes got nerfed. But being able to make obsoleted units if you don't have the resources is such a needed update.
 

Sarek

Member
Couldn't care less about a new civ, all I want to see are the balance and AI updates. The AI can't coherently use the existing civs or game mechanics, and I'd like the higher difficulties to be more than 'the AI gets 2 free cities at the start for you to capture'.

Outside of sites like CivFanatics Civ6 the fact that the AI was basically unable to take cities with walls has been pretty much completely ignored. And that was with the player not actually doing anything to resist the AI from doing so. Also eg. the AI didn't use air units at all.

Thankfully the this latest patch has apparently made the AI noticeably better at using its units. Still says lot about the reviews that the huge issues with the AI weren't mentioned in any of the reviews I read at least.
 

Matt_

World's #1 One Direction Fan: Everyone else in the room can see it, everyone else but you~~~
Just bought the australia dlc and I'm being thick
how do I play the scenario single player?

edit; had to restart and it popped up never-mind
 

Firebrand

Member
So how did this game turn out you think? AI still broken?

I was so hyped for this release, yet I never got further than medieval times on my first game :/ Somehow didn't grab me.
 

Maledict

Member
The game's AI is still hot garbage.

Hit turn 80, and two civs immediately declare war on me, for absolutely no reason (am no-where near them, not going against their agenda, etc). They can't possibly actually conquer me given my army standing between me and them and the terrain. Until recently I was in a declaration of friendship with one of them - and I haven't done *any* military this game at all.

Easily my biggest disappointment of last year. I'm not buying Firaxis products when released anymore - both this and Beyond Earth were bad games, that received poor support. Doesn't help that the DLC is stupidly overpriced as well (First, and last, time I will ever buy a season pass without knowing what's in it). I've been buying Civ and it's expansions since the very first release of the game. I won't be buying civ 7.
 

Maledict

Member
I'm literally watching the AI move his units back and forth in front of my archers who are killing them. Literally - both melee units, and instead of attacking me they just swapped positions.
 

Maledict

Member
Ditto. I feel like tactical AI to put human intellect in the grave in a Civ title is a moon shot. Not even a supercomputer would be equal to the task.

I'm not asking for a human AI.

But this AI is *literally* unable to play the game. It is making mistakes that are totally ilogical and completely ruin the game. It has two melee units directly next to my archers, and instead of attacking it keeps swapping the units back and forth until they are dead. That's isn't "moonshot" AI - that's basic AI that Civilisation 1 wouldn't do.

Similarly, the declarations of war out of no-where on the same turn every game - the diplomacy is fucked and makes no sense.

And again, districts - haven't you noticed that the AI doesn't even know how to build districts properly? It doesn't actually use the biggest innovation the series had in this version.


I'm not asking for human level AI. But right now, there's no AI. The game remains fundamentally broken. If you can look past that and have fun, more props to you - but it's undeniable that after numerous patches the game is still utterly fucked when it comes to the computer opponents, and instead of fixing it we get overpriced DLC. There is no challenge to the game because your opponents don't know or understand the rules.
 

Sibylus

Banned
I'm not asking for a human AI.

But this AI is *literally* unable to play the game. It is making mistakes that are totally ilogical and completely ruin the game. It has two melee units directly next to my archers, and instead of attacking it keeps swapping the units back and forth until they are dead. That's isn't "moonshot" AI - that's basic AI that Civilisation 1 wouldn't do.

Similarly, the declarations of war out of no-where on the same turn every game - the diplomacy is fucked and makes no sense.

And again, districts - haven't you noticed that the AI doesn't even know how to build districts properly? It doesn't actually use the biggest innovation the series had in this version.


I'm not asking for human level AI. But right now, there's no AI. The game remains fundamentally broken. If you can look past that and have fun, more props to you - but it's undeniable that after numerous patches the game is still utterly fucked when it comes to the computer opponents, and instead of fixing it we get overpriced DLC. There is no challenge to the game because your opponents don't know or understand the rules.

I'll take your word for the units bouncing back and forth, haven't seen it happen in my games yet. Only district problem I've noticed (as yet) is severe under-utilization of neighborhoods. I still have yet to actually use a spy to recruit partisans. I've no doubt there's a lot of fixes and optimizations that can still go into the thing, but I'm also skeptical about how much even an optimum AI can accomplish here. Could player data be scraped to graft into the AI routines? That might help.

No argument regarding overpriced DLC.
 

Dylan

Member
So I just bought a new laptop and I had a moment where I had to had to choose between installing Civ VI or Civ V.

I begrudgingly chose Civ VI, but man, that was not a moment I enjoyed!!

Here's hoping the expansions are a win for Firaxis and fans alike.

edit: Oh woah, this got moved to community? Yeah, looks like I'll never check the thread ever again. : (
 
Just flicked through the Outback Tycoon play through they did on their YouTube channel and at the end they reveal that the final piece of free dlc for the deluxe edition will be duel civilisation.

Betting Persia and Macedon based on the datamining

Betting Austria and Hungary based on my heart.
 
Why would the AI have a 8 slot airstrip at a capital but no actual planes at any of their cities.....102 defence but no military units around.........I guess I really did beat their entire army when they foolishly declared war on me 100 turns prior *shrug*
 

Maledict

Member
Why would the AI have a 8 slot airstrip at a capital but no actual planes at any of their cities.....102 defence but no military units around.........I guess I really did beat their entire army when they foolishly declared war on me 100 turns prior *shrug*

The AI can't use aircraft, and won't even build them most of the time. But it invests in their infrastructure anyways.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
edit: Oh woah, this got moved to community? Yeah, looks like I'll never check the thread ever again. : (

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The AI can't use aircraft, and won't even build them most of the time. But it invests in their infrastructure anyways.

I was all prepared for a tough fight to beat Germany before they won the space race but I rolled right over them

I was playing on King difficulty
 
Anyone who brought the Australia dlc have a go with the scenario in it? It looked kinda interesting from the preview and I was wondering how that ended up.
 

Maledict

Member
So, a summary of the AI in the last patch. I decided to play a game as Australia on King level, because I haven't played since launch week and wanted to have an easy game seeing how it all worked again. Normally I play on Emperor in previous civ games, and Immortal if I want a real challenge. King is easy mode - the AI will launch attacks and try to compete, and get minor bonuses, but in the long run I'll win.

Start off very isolated, with tons of pastures near by which look to generate ridiculous bonuses. Later on I discover they are useless, as you can't build Outback Stations on hills, but that's neither here or there. I slowly expand to the west, as it's the only direction I can go in. After going through a lot of hills, jungle and past a mountain range, I encounter my nearest neighbors - Arabia, and Brazil. Above them is France, and that leaves the 4 of us on this continent. I'm on an isolated spur on the eastern side, and there's vast amounts of room between me and any competition. None are expanding in any way in my direction, and I only make one extra city but build a decent military force as a precaution.

Turn 80, out of the blue, both Arabia and Brazil declare war on me. They aren't friends with each other, neither denounced me, and obviously at this stage I can't see their modifiers. Later on I discover neither has a hidden agenda that should cause this (in fact, Brazil's agenda should make them love me - I'm not competing for great people at all, and I'm earning tons of money). In Civ 6 it feels like there's an artificial cap on when AIs can declare war, and once you hit that turn a bunch will no matter what.

So, regardless of the fact we aren't competing in any way, there's tons of difficult terrain between us, and our agenda's don't clash, I'm now at war with 2 civs at once. Why they didn't declare on each OTHER is beyond me - they are literally next to each other and already competing over territory. I marshal my army of archers, add in a couple of pike man, and slowly trek towards their cities. Arabia is closer than Brazil, so I target them first.
When I get there, much to my surprise - they don't actually have an army. They have a few units, but they don't even look like they were planning on attacking me. Why declare war if you aren't going to attack?

Nevertheless, I quickly take a smaller outer city, then start seiging his capital. Note that this takes a lot of turns - I'm going slow and playing cautiously, the terrain is awful, etc. Arabia still doesn't actually build many units - he pulls out a few chariots and sends them towards me. Problem is, I get to shoot at them once before they hit, and once that happens the AI clearly breaks - they just start swapping positions on the map in front of my army, which of course means I just ping them to death and then take the capital. I then take brazil's nearest city, then call it a day. Brazil literally had no units other than a single warrior I ran into. Obviously at this stage the rest of the known world loathes and despises me for being a war monger, despite the fact I didn't eradicate any civ and was the victim of the declaration of war.

Over the course of the game I then slowly expand, settling the weirdly empty vast continent to the east, and meeting the games other civs - Kongo, Sumeria, Greece (gorgo) and Germany. At around turn 150, out of the blue, India and Sumeria declare war on me. Now, they are friends so this sort of makes sense - but they are both on another continent, we aren't competing in any sense,. So the actual declaration is just weird. Especially as there are other civs far closer to them. Neither actually HAS an army or navy to speak of, so using just a caravel and a frigate I conquer one of Sumeria's cities.

Suddenly, out of now-where, France declares an attack! Now, this is partly surprising because France was the only civ in the game who didnt dislike me. We were neutral because we had trading routes, I was strong in espionage, and generally we'd left each other alone as she was at war with Brazil (who still hated me). FRance had a small colony near my main secondary outpost, where I had two cities that were woefully under-defended - one crossbowman in each city, no encampments or city walls, both on the coast so vulnerable to naval attack. Whilst I was annoyed at the randomness of the DoW, I was pleased the AI had caught me in a vulnerable spot, and identified where it should strike. They had a large fleet of crossbow men, pikeman and knights that all landed on my shores - for once the AI was going to war with an actual army! A challenge!

Only not. They didn't once attack my cities. Instead, they marched up and down around them, being whittled down by my archer fire as I rapidly build up a huge archer force and then promptly killed them all. I also realized that they had zero naval ships - so had I had any of my fleet in that area, their entire army would have been sunk instantly. So despite having two very vulnerable locations, attacking by surprise with a massive, tech appropriate army, they accomplished nothing other than the deaths of thousands of poor French knights and peasants. At that point, I ended the game.


Ultimately, the AI doesn't work, at all. Quick summary:

1) It's even more aggressive in declaring war than Civ 5, and never seems to forgive or forget war monger penalties. Unlike Civ 5 however, it often doesn't actually build armies when it declares war.

2) The declarations have no basis in any form of strategy - I was targeted not because I was winning (I wasn't, at one point Kongo was two eras ahead of me), not because I was weak, and not because we were competiting over resources - it just seemed to happen. Only one of the 5 DoW actually had a sound reason for occurring, when France tried to pick off my isolated, vulnerable colonies.

3) If the AI does have units, it doesn't know how to use them at all. Again, far worse than even vanilla civ 5. It seems there's something wrong with what happens when its units are damaged - it starts just swapping them back and forth, no matter what else is nearby. Numerous times I'd watch as their forces just paraded up and down in front of my cities and ranged troops to slowly be killed.

4) The AI doesn't understand districts. It seems to just build to fill out it's district spots, so by the time industrial districts appear it can't build any. There were literally *zero* industrial districts in the entire game at this point.

5) It doesn't provide escorts, *still*. I stole workers and settlers with abandon. Also, when France launched it's naval attack, they didn't have a single ship to shield their army as is approached. Plus, my cities were on the coast so extremely vulnerable to naval conquest.


Ultimately, the game remains in a completely broken state. I'm not the best civ player by any stretch, but there simply isn't any challenge here. The AI cannot compete at all, and doesn't act in any way rationally - random declarations of war are bad enough, but when the enemy has no army to actually fight? It doesn't understand basic systems at all either - it neglects proper districts, formations and trade significantly. I've been playing Civ since Civ 1 first came out, and I've never before been so aware of how utterly, completely, the AI is failing at the game. Watching their armies parade back and forth in front of archers who are slowly killing them is just dumb.
 

Maledict

Member
On a plus point / suggestion. I really like the way they focus on geography in this version, and want to keep that. But it creates problems, when you play a civ and cannot access it's abilities at all. This used to happen a bit in Civ 5 (not finding a natural wonder with Spain, playing England on Pangea etc), but now it's actually quite common even with biased starts. I couldn't use outbacks at all on any of my starting continent cities - the terrain simply didn't fit.

What I'd like to see going forward are options for civ abilities - maybe really small talent trees as you progress. So yes, Australia can have great production and food with Outbacks if that's where they started. But if that's not where you start, maybe they get some alternative geared towards culture maybe?

I'd like the option of not starting a game, exploring a bit, and realizing one of the main abilities of your nation is worthless. I understand for some folk who play a lot that's part of the challenge, but if you dont play a huge amount you want to experience everything a civ has to offer, and don't want to have to restart just because someone decided sheep and horses only lived in areas surrounded by hills in this world... ;-)
 
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