Hindsight bias. We've had a year to grow accustomed to the freak show, but that doesn't mean people saw this coming.
Clinton: Trump supporters in "the basket of deplorables" ie - racist, homophobic, etc
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Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
That depends heavily on who your "we" is.
Yeah, i agree. She needs to stick with it.
Meh, you're probably right, but also some people like that just ain't worth the time.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I don't see this line of attack hurting her because A) she's right and B) the notion that Trump supporters are racist/sexist is hardly new.
hydrophilic attack
Member
truly deplorable
That says more about the blindspots of the people who didn't see it coming than it does about the predictability of a candidate like Trump winning over the GOP electorate, which has been dominated by the politics of white grievance and white nationalism for nearly a decade now.
User 463088
Banned
Earlier I made this argument in PoliGaf that I was wearing a tin foil hat thinking she did this on purpose. I'm taking the hat off. I think this was definitely on purpose.
1) It energizes the left. This is going to be a base election (for the most part). The far left who isn't feeling enough love (for whatever reason) seems to be loving the heck out of this. Which is cool. People who say they don't like her were happy to hear her say it.
2) The birther issue has been in the news lately. Again. (Thanks in part to Chris Matthews). This is a perfect wedge to use on Trump's base. She makes this statement, and she can use Trump's birtherism to prove he's racist.That leaves him with two choices--refute the birther claims (which doesn't help him because it brings it all out in the open again and reinforces that he did say and believe this for years) OR just ignore it. If he decides to ignore it, then it's a free check for the Clinton campaign to scream from the top of the hills "He can't prove us wrong!"
3) You get to bring up the alt-right again. You get to air all that shit out for everyone to see a second time. Give another speech on it if you want. Have at it. If you feel like you're getting negative blow back from what she said, then just argue "Look, she clearly meant the alt-right supporters, that's why she said the other half are perfectly fine!"
4) The only people this turns off are Trump supporters.She wasn't winning them anyway. They're whatever, and they'll do whatever. Calling them racists gives a certain block of his supporters life, because it's like an affirmation to them.
5) And, if the Trump surrogates try to say that none of this is true, we can bring receipts, mama. We got receipts for days. We got polls. We got quotes. We got reporters, like Katy Tur, who literally snatched a surrogates soul on live tv last night. These people have heard the vile shit that goes on at Trump rallies. It's on tape. This ain't a secret. We can confirm.
1) It energizes the left. This is going to be a base election (for the most part). The far left who isn't feeling enough love (for whatever reason) seems to be loving the heck out of this. Which is cool. People who say they don't like her were happy to hear her say it.
2) The birther issue has been in the news lately. Again. (Thanks in part to Chris Matthews). This is a perfect wedge to use on Trump's base. She makes this statement, and she can use Trump's birtherism to prove he's racist.That leaves him with two choices--refute the birther claims (which doesn't help him because it brings it all out in the open again and reinforces that he did say and believe this for years) OR just ignore it. If he decides to ignore it, then it's a free check for the Clinton campaign to scream from the top of the hills "He can't prove us wrong!"
3) You get to bring up the alt-right again. You get to air all that shit out for everyone to see a second time. Give another speech on it if you want. Have at it. If you feel like you're getting negative blow back from what she said, then just argue "Look, she clearly meant the alt-right supporters, that's why she said the other half are perfectly fine!"
4) The only people this turns off are Trump supporters.She wasn't winning them anyway. They're whatever, and they'll do whatever. Calling them racists gives a certain block of his supporters life, because it's like an affirmation to them.
5) And, if the Trump surrogates try to say that none of this is true, we can bring receipts, mama. We got receipts for days. We got polls. We got quotes. We got reporters, like Katy Tur, who literally snatched a surrogates soul on live tv last night. These people have heard the vile shit that goes on at Trump rallies. It's on tape. This ain't a secret. We can confirm.
Only with deplorables.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Redemption? Good one. Have you ever lived in the South? Give it a try and let's see your attitude afterwards.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
It's amusing to me just how many automatically lump themselves in with the "deplorables" as they take offense.
hipsterpants
Member
anyone that actually gets offended by this that isn't a trump supporter is a spineless loser
(trump supporters are already losers)
literally the equivalent of "well I support what they're protesting but they shouldn't protest that way"
(trump supporters are already losers)
literally the equivalent of "well I support what they're protesting but they shouldn't protest that way"
DOWN
Banned
It wasn't a both sides comment. I was relating the fact that she is proof that views can 'evolve' for the better makes her perceived condemning statement less ideal for communicating the issue with Trump supporters' views. I think the two sides are very different and the current views of Trump's supporters suck, but that doesn't change my opinion on how she communicated.
And no, I don't think I produced the assumption that this will hurt her or that her past stances were in fact political facade.
I haven't argued that her previous stances or statements should hurt her at all. That's a different conversation, but I'm voting for her because she has good stances currently and I trust them and haven't argued against her other than the delivery of her comments in this topic.
She evolved at 17, and at her "worst" is no where near the alt right. A micro aggressive statement from twenty years ago is not the same as literally comparing people to animals like trumps supporters do to the current sitting president's family. These people are far gone, and there's nothing wrong with her saying so.
These people can't evolve or change, they're stuck in their ways. They're given the choice for redemption repeatedly but if they keep supporting this orange turd to election day, they're long gone.
Tranqueris
Banned
I think some people have forgotten that yes, she might be more careful now about what she says but she's still the same Hillary who went to China and told them they were violating human rights when everyone in the media thought she was going to give some boring non controversial speech.
Unfortunately this is wrong.
Nah, this isn't gonna hurt her at all. Mainly because she's right. If anything, you get news organizations fact check her claim and shine a brighter light on his bigoted and racist supporters.
I'm sure they'll be proud to extol their sexist and hateful white nationalist views out to the world. And if they don't, then they're chickenshit. That's best part about this. Don't let them scurry and hide their views. If that's what they believe, then don't hide that shit.
I'm sure they'll be proud to extol their sexist and hateful white nationalist views out to the world. And if they don't, then they're chickenshit. That's best part about this. Don't let them scurry and hide their views. If that's what they believe, then don't hide that shit.
Young people can be just as racist, and sometimes they're in liberal areas holding liberal views.
younger people are waaaaay more likely to change over time then the baby boomers.
Not when they aren't challenged in their views, especially in places like Oregon and NorCal. I'm just disagreeing that this will be over anytime soon.
that's why I was talking about the old ones
cartoon_soldier
Member
she is right. People know she is right.
Hopefully she doubles down and doesn't back off.
Hopefully she doubles down and doesn't back off.
Why? Do you think people can be shamed into not supporting Trump?
MHWilliams
Member
Nope, but if they're still supporting Trump after everything he has said and done, then one should make it clear those views are poor at best.
His hardcore supporters? No. But they weren't going to ever vote for her anyway.
Soft Republicans who actually care about being perceived as supporting a racist? Absolutely.
I mean, let's not pretend that the #NeverTrump movement didn't exist. There are a LOT of prominent Trump supporters who can't stomach Trump. And they have supporters.
Make the choice crystal clear.
the only problem with this tactic is the possibility to alienate undecided, on the fence voters who are in a family who has people that are Trump supporters. the headline is that Hilary is calling your dad, mom, uncle ...whatever.. a racist, homophobic bigot which can polarize that undecided voter against her just on a knee jerk, emotional reaction. whether what she is saying is true, thats irrelivent. people will respond emotionally when youre attacking the voting, american public.
i just dont see how that can get her more supporters but part of me is thinking ''good for her'', and the other part is think ''i dont know if thats the best approach''.
i just dont see how that can get her more supporters but part of me is thinking ''good for her'', and the other part is think ''i dont know if thats the best approach''.
Lord Frieza
Member
Is there a video of the Tur interview?
Lord Frieza
Member
She's not saying that. She's saying their uncles, dads and moms are in the same basket as racists and homophobics.
Hillary Clinton is going to shame these people so much they switch sides? I don't think so.
All this does is pump up the right. It does nothing to help Hillary. You should go talk to some Trump supporters and look at the articles they pass around as the truth. There's no reasoning or shaming to be had there. They made their choice and most of them are damn proud of it.
She has a really effective ad out that paints her as the stoic moderate that isn't inflammatory. This goes against that, even if she's 100% right.
Aaronology
Member
Yup.
The hidden racism of young white Americans
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/americas-racism-problem-far-complicated-think/
Age Doesn’t Matter
The pervasive narrative about racial change is that it occurs through generations — old racists die out, and new, young, progressive people take their place. This narrative is dubious. Age tells us far less about an individual’s likelihood of expressing racist sentiments than factors like education, geography and race. The data below visualize the percentage of whites in each age group espousing the explicitly racist idea that blacks are not hardworking or intelligent, as well as the percentage who say that blacks face little or no discrimination.
We haven't even gotten to the point where the majority of white Americans, regardless of age, have acknowledged the advantages that being the majority in the US gives them.
On Views of Race and Inequality, Blacks and Whites Are Worlds Apart
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/06/27/on-views-of-race-and-inequality-blacks-and-whites-are-worlds-apart/
While some whites report being treated unfairly at times because of their race, the overall impact is relatively minor. Only 5% of whites say their race or ethnicity has made it harder for them to succeed in life. A majority of whites (62%) say their race hasn’t made much of difference in their ability to succeed, and 31% say their race has made things easier for them.
Millennials are just as racist as their parents
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/23/millennials-are-just-as-racist-as-their-parents/
When it comes to explicit prejudice against blacks, non-Hispanic white millennials are not much different than whites belonging to Generation X (born 1965-1980) or Baby Boomers (born 1946-1964). White millennials (using a definition of being born after 1980) express the least prejudice on 4 out of 5 measures in the survey, but only by a matter of 1 to 3 percentage points, not a meaningful difference. On work ethic, 31 percent of millennials rate blacks as lazier than whites, compared to 32 percent of Generation X whites and 35 percent of Baby Boomers. (Question wording and methodology at the end).
The fact that today's young whites are not much different from their elders on racial prejudice shouldn't be all that surprising, as it matches past research on policies designed to alleviate racial inequality. Comparing ANES surveys over two decades, University of Michigan political scientist Vincent Hutchings found "younger cohorts of whites are no more racially liberal in 2008 than they were in 1988" in a 2009 article.
Whatever expectation that millennials' diverse racial makeup would spawn especially tolerant views has not yet come true.
Millennials Are More Racist Than They Think
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/03/millenials-race-115909
When it comes to support for various government programs that could combat racial inequity, young whites (17-34) have more in common with older whites (65+) than they do with young blacks (17-34).
Are millennials tolerant racists?
http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/1/are-millennials-tolerant-racists.html
Millennials don’t fare better than their parents on implicit racial bias either. The nonprofit Project Implicit conducts an association test to measure automatic and unconscious preference for European or African faces. A study of 2.5 million voluntary tests taken from 2000 to 2006 found very little variation on implicit bias across age groups, with the exception of those 60 or older. The chart below shows the results of the implicit-association test (IAT) and individuals’ self-reported bias, with a score of 2 indicating a strong bias toward whites and –2 indicating a strong bias toward blacks. The old and young showed differences in their self-evaluation of racial bias, with older people off by 0.38 points and those in the youngest two brackets underreporting their bias by 0.52 on average.
The fact that millennials perceive themselves as uniquely tolerant may make them more likely to practice or accept discriminatory behavior. “A representative panel of Americans interviewed immediately before and after the election [of Barack Obama] reveals a roughly 10 percent decline in perceptions of racial discrimination,” Nicholas A. Valentino and Ted Brader, wrote in a 2011 study in the journal Public Opinion Quarterly.
But the dramatic change in perceptions was clearly symbolic. Valentino and Brader found that “declines in perceived discrimination were associated with increases in negative opinions of blacks and heightened opposition to both affirmative action and immigration.” A large body of research supports this finding. For instance, a 2009 study by Vincent Hutchings found (PDF) “scant evidence of a decline in the racial divide” from 1988 to 2008 on policies that would alleviate racial inequality. Even more startling, Hutchings noted, “younger cohorts of whites are no more racially liberal in 2008 than they were in 1988.”
"It'll be ok once the old people die" is a myth that needs binning. Racism is prevalent across all age groups and the methods of expression might be changing but its existence is not dwindling in any truly remarkable way amongst the youth. The only difference with my generation of white Americans is that they seem to believe they're much less bigoted than they actually are.
Tranqueris
Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNk-g3XXFNQ&feature=youtu.be
It gets better after Jack Kingston's nonsense in the beginning.
Surely such comments will not increase the split in society.
Agree with this. It's like textbook 101 of "How not to deal with rightwing parties" - insulting their voters only fuels their felt victimhood and strengthens them while increasing the rift in society.
Agree with this. It's like textbook 101 of "How not to deal with rightwing parties" - insulting their voters only fuels their felt victimhood and strengthens them while increasing the rift in society.
Lord Frieza
Member
The alt-right have been energized for awhile now. This isn't aimmed at them.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
so calling racists un-american is a cancer now? that's pretty fucking rich
Lord Frieza
Member
That's pretty fucking savage.
The rift in society is between racists and non-racists.
Frankly, I have no interest in closing that rift. It exists for a reason.
It depends.
For the alarmingly large number of Americans who are still yearning for a return to the salad days of slavery or Jim Crow when the darkies knew their place and white America was isomorphic with America? Lol, no.
For the group (almost certainly the majority of Trump supporters) who are deeply racist but don't consider themselves racist but obediently leap at racist dog whistles masquerading as "attacks on political correctness" because they are in fact deeply racist? No.
For lifelong Republicans who might not exactly mix with queer and non-white people in social situations but really, really don't want to be tarred with the "Racist" or "Bigot" brush and all the social stigma it brings by supporting someone running on a racist and bigoted platform? Yeah, some of those you can definitely peel off and banging this particular drum might be the best way to do it (anecdotally, pretty much all of the lifelong Republicans I know IRL who have abandoned the party this election cycle fall into this category and it is consistently because they don't want that scarlet "R" attached to their vote. It's embarrassing. It should be embarrassing).
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