Support NeoGAF

[SkylineRKR]

Eternal is brighter/more colourful because it's going for a more retro arcade style vibe that is in the spirit of the first few games. I can see where you're coming from though.

>In terms of the gameplay, Eternal felt like id watched a lot of those super sweaty 'pro' videos of Doom 2016 on Youtube, and thought that the key to interesting gameplay was having the player constantly be switching up their weapon and using every single one of their abilities.

And they were right to do so. The combat feels more dynamic as a result.

>Basically, if you want to play the game in the way you want for more than 2 seconds, id steps in and says "that's not interesting enough", and then makes the ammo run out.

You chainsaw for more ammo or you switch weapons. That's exactly how it worked in 2016. I don't see the problem.

Yes but I think a higher ammo cap wouldn't deter much from this. Its still more effective to lob an explosive into the mouth of a Cacodemon, and shoot the turret off a spider bot with the scoped machinegun, use plasma on shields, shotgun on pinky back etc. I would also change if I had more spare ammo.

Chainsaw was sort of a win button in Doom 2016. You would be best off to save it for a baron or something, it would delete any non-boss enemy IIRC. They nerfed the chainsaw in Eternal, but gave it a recharge so you can always use it. And you have to, since its your main ammo income here. This means Chainsaw is mostly used on fodder enemies and this part is kind of lame imo. Those enemies make the fights more cluttered than they are, they are walking ammo packs but harmless otherwise. It feels artificial to constantly have to rush to a group of infinitely respawning harmless fodder enemies just to chainsaw them for some ammo.

 

[Killer8]

Here's a take no one has mentioned: Mick Gordon's score is overrated. It's nothing special, it's effectively 90s industrial metal instrumentals looping constantly. In Eternal specifically it got really old.

I like Doom 2016's OST a lot but Eternal's wasn't too great, due in part to production issues and a spat between the composer Mick Gordon and id. It was rushed.

 

[The_Mike]

When op has made such a long post then I say a new thread is warranted it's own thread instead of replying to the existing one.

You're still wrong though.

 

[NightmareFarm]

When op has made such a long post then I say a new thread is warranted it's own thread instead of replying to the existing one.

You're still wrong though.

How?

 

[THE DUCK]

Resource management is not doom

doom is an constant orgy of violence putting pauses in this loop because no ammo is fucking dumb and not what doom is

no it's not OG doom
the game is ok
it's just not doom

Is zelda botw the same as a regular zelda game? Does that make it "not a zelda game"?

It's still 100% a doom game, you run around with giant guns shooting tons of demons 95% of the time. I have no idea how chainsaws to get ammo is any different than searching the corner for a box of ammo. Getting ammo is easy, not sure why you keep saying "no ammo".

 

[Come On Tars]

Both are awesome but ill say 2016 feels basic if you are coming right off eternal. Gotta play them in order. I love 2016s more grim level design.

 

[Mozzarella]

I enjoyed both, but if i had to choose one i think Eternal would be my choice, but i think both are enjoyable for different reasons and thats why i kept them both on my PC instead of uninstalling one and keeping the other for a Doom game.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

You cant say plot should be the last thing on our minbd when playing a doom game when developers themselves added a cringe plot when it worked perfectly fine with the minimal one in Doom 2016. I just hated the colorful drops in Eternal, it looked more like Fortnite than a Doom game.

 

[eNT1TY]

Eternal is a shameful bait and switch rock-paper-scissor kill room romper platformer hybrid with a rigid resource management gimmick that shoehorns the player into a singular effective loop, it is the most restrictive mechanically of ALL the doom games gameplay wise. It is an absolute chore to play and punishes any deviation from "their" intended loop. Eternal is goofy cartoony pastiche of doom at best and a dour bastardization of majestic 2016 at worst. Hell ill go a step further, Eternal is a parody of Doom; Serious Sam is a better doom game than Eternal. The engine is great though, new halo should use it.

 

[HazukiSensei]

People who hate on doom eternal

The video game that isnt just strafe and shoot and gives the player more mobility, mechanics and verticality to work with...

Are likely playing it on console...

Doom.2016 was a console friendly game. Console only gamers are so casual they dont even understand why they are having a hard time with something thats not designed for them.

They gave us the DMC of shooters and these kids are trying to take us back a step to vanilla missionary sex ass doom 2016 because they lack the style to do anything witg eternal, or they are playing on console and the demands are too much for the sticks.

You can air dash for gods sake. Im not going to say the game where i cant do that shit is better lol

 

[HazukiSensei]

Eternal is a shameful bait and switch rock-paper-scissor kill room romper platformer hybrid with a rigid resource management gimmick that shoehorns the player into a singular effective loop, it is the most restrictive mechanically of ALL the doom games gameplay wise. It is an absolute chore to play and punishes any deviation from "their" intended loop. Eternal is goofy cartoony pastiche of doom at best and a dour bastardization of majestic 2016 at worst. Hell ill go a step further, Eternal is a parody of Doom; Serious Sam is a better doom game than Eternal. The engine is great though, new halo should use it.

Doom 2016 had no mobility, and left you grounded primarily with no verticality. You couldnt fight anything close to a maruader with the toolset of 2016. Whereas the toolset given to you in eternal, allowed you to handle any situation if you had the skill. You werent limited by limitations in the mechanics.

Eternal haters are same people that value souls games over DMC or ninja gaiden. They dont appreciate more mechanical options

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

This game is like a Monster Energy drink and Doom memes smashed together...as an actual Doom game.

I beat it on Ultra Violence. I get what they were going for and I had enough fun with the mechanics but what a bloated, belligerent, goofy mess overall. It's like some gym bro in a Metallica shirt screaming in your face the entire time.

I still wish we could get something with the tone of PS1 Doom and Doom 64. The soundtracks and sound design in those two were really cool and dark.

PS: The platforming can suck a Cheetah's dick

 

[HazukiSensei]

The chainsaw in Eternal is not exactly the same as 2016.

In 2016 it had limited fuel that you can only find in the level. In Eternal, there is always one fuel unit that will recharge on its own.

In 2016, because of the limited fuel, it was used as more of a power weapon that can instantly kill most enemies. The ammo being dropped from them was really just a bonus, like some victory confetti.

In Eternal, since you always have some fuel recharging, being able to use it is just a matter of time. It stops being this infrequently used power weapon, where you save its fuel for a special occasion, and starts being just the way to get ammo back.

And why did this change happen? Because the designers decided to make ammo extremely scarce, not only in the capacity of each gun but by placing less pickups in the level. The chainsaw now becomes pretty much "ammo restock tool". It's why the chainsaw has to recharge now because the game will be unplayable without it.

My issue with this design, as i've said, is that between the chainsaw, the glory kills for health, and the flamethrower for shields, you end up juggling all of this shit constantly because by design you now have to. You can't get as comfy with your favorite gun as 2016 and blast away to your hearts content, because it will run dry in no time. Of course you'd still have to change weapons in 2016 too, it wasn't like there was infinite ammo in that game. But it felt like there was enough to at least let you get your kicks a lot more with the tools you wanted to use. Eternal takes them away far too early to enforce muh gameplay variety.

The whole design of the game is just solutions looking for problems. Playing Eternal left me feeling like a clown trying to keep all of id's balls in the air.

Yeah playing with the same gun the whole game is a casual, lame ass way to play...they decided to stop that lol

Eternal requires more mechanical dexterity to straight up play and get the most out of. So its funny how these "harcore gamers" are opting for the more casual, console friendly doom 2016 thats basically just strafe and shoot.

 

[NightmareFarm]

People who hate on doom eternal

The video game that isnt just strafe and shoot and gives the player more mobility, mechanics and verticality to work with...

Are likely playing it on console...

Doom.2016 was a console friendly game. Console only gamers are so casual they dont even understand why they are having a hard time with something thats not designed for them.

They gave us the DMC of shooters and these kids are trying to take us back a step to vanilla missionary sex ass doom 2016 because they lack the style to do anything witg eternal, or they are playing on console and the demands are too much for the sticks.

You can air dash for gods sake. Im not going to say the game where i cant do that shit is better lol

Pretty much this apart from the PC elitism

 

[Dr. Claus]

People who hate on doom eternal

The video game that isnt just strafe and shoot and gives the player more mobility, mechanics and verticality to work with...

Are likely playing it on console...

Doom.2016 was a console friendly game. Console only gamers are so casual they dont even understand why they are having a hard time with something thats not designed for them.

They gave us the DMC of shooters and these kids are trying to take us back a step to vanilla missionary sex ass doom 2016 because they lack the style to do anything witg eternal, or they are playing on console and the demands are too much for the sticks.

You can air dash for gods sake. Im not going to say the game where i cant do that shit is better lol

Playing on Console or PC doesn't matter (I played on both). Reality is the people who are shitting on Eternal are just bad at the game and want to blame the mechanics and not themselves. Anyone who has played it wouldn't complain about "platforming" becuase it makes up less than 0.1% of the total gameplay as an example. Just shows how little they actually played of the game.

 

[CGNoire]

I got bad news for Eternal fans. As someone who highly favored the driving physics of GTAIV over V Im here to warn you that when 40%+ of a fan base doesnt like something its pretty much written in stone that its not coming back with its sequel.

Like looking at the numbers the chance of Eternals sequel playing just like Eternal is pretty much near zero now.

 

[CGNoire]

It's Doom for kids addicted to energy drinks and Twitch. The kinda people who think MW 2 isn't as good because it tried to slow the game down a bit.
It's just mentally exhausting and not fun to play compared to 2016.

Yep for those that hate pacing of any kind. But to be fair Doom 2016 arena focused combat had its own pacing issues as well.

 

[Mediocre Arachno-Lad]

There is nothing I would call eternal style platforming in doom, doom 2 or Plutonia.

No shit it's not exactly the same, there was no jump button. But since 2 it had platforming out the ass.
To claim that wacky platforming is somehow out of character for doom is some confidently ignorant nonsense.

 

[Ben87fr]

I just hope the next one is simpler/less exhausting to play

 

[rofif]

Here's a take no one has mentioned: Mick Gordon's score is overrated. It's nothing special, it's effectively 90s industrial metal instrumentals looping constantly. In Eternal specifically it got really old.

Some good tracks in 2016 but eternal is just noise for the most part

 

[Mister Wolf]

I definitely enjoyed 2016 more.

 

[Dutchy]

Eternal is better than 2016 in pretty much every way besides it's grapple hook. Then again, that should be the last thing on your mind when playing a Doom game.

Too bad the entire game it's terrible map design is catered around these zoomer shooter mechanics that were never present in og games of even the initial reboot.

OP would love Halo Infinite as it rewards low attention span troglodytes in a similar fashion.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

It is 2074. The man has lived a long and fruitful life. He is at the end of the road. Where once he was strong and youthful, he is now slight and frail. His eyes still have that green twinkle* which all who ever knew him associate with him. His wife was taken aback by those twinkling eyes the first time they met. Despite this, she initially rejected him, but he worked hard and tried to impress her, got a decent job, even managed to win her father over, who one day said she should think of maybe going to the movies with him "He's a good kid, he's gonna keep trying to win you over anyway, might as well give him a chance" And so she did.

They married in the fall of the next year and moved into a small 1 bedroom apartment in the city. Their first child came the next year and after a campaign that lasted months, he got a promotion and they were able to move into a house. This house.

His wife, daughter and 3 sons, some with children of their own are gathered in the bedroom. It is still. Quiet. Everyone listening to the sound of his slow breathing. In, out. In. Out.

His eyes open, beautiful and green. He looks to his faithful dog, and reaches for the dog, it whines and he scritches the top of the dog's head. The dog licks his hand. His green eyes scan the room. He smiles, taking in all the faces of his family gathered around him before resting on his wife's face.

He motions to her and she leans forward in her chair. His youngest son helps her to her feet and guides her the few feet to the bedside. His lips move but his voice is but a whisper. She leans forward turning her ear to his face.

"Doom Eternal is... better than Doom 2016."

The wind pushes the curtains away from the open window and a candle on the bedside table is blown out.

He is gone.

Spoiler

And he was fucking right too.

Spoiler: *

 

[MMaRsu]

How can it be better when its tutorials are garbage and the onboarding of the player is trash?

 

[Mr Reasonable]

How can it be better when its tutorials are garbage and the onboarding of the player is trash?

It's all the other bits, the playing of the game, that's the best bit.

Obviously for people who only play tutorials, there might be better games out there, but for people who play beyond the tutorials (Which I confess, is how I play games ) Eternal is excellent.

 

[MMaRsu]

It's all the other bits, the playing of the game, that's the best bit.

Obviously for people who only play tutorials, there might be better games out there, but for people who play beyond the tutorials (Which I confess, is how I play games ) Eternal is excellent.

The fact is that during the game, they take you out of the gameplay to transport you to these barren white rooms with 2/3 enemies in it, and annoying pop up boxes filled with text.

How is that good game design?

 

[Mr Reasonable]

The fact is that during the game, they take you out of the gameplay to transport you to these barren white rooms with 2/3 enemies in it, and annoying pop up boxes filled with text.

How is that good game design?

Oh Those. They're like 20 seconds? Teaches you how to play the game. No big deal for me.

 

[MMaRsu]

Oh Those. They're like 20 seconds? Teaches you how to play the game. No big deal for me.

Yes it teaches you. What I'm trying to bring across to you is that they should do this ingame, while fighting the enemies.

Not through an annoying popup box, where control is taken away from me and im transported (somehow) to a white box with three enemies.

Its bad game design. Constantly taking you out of the action.

 

[MasterDerico]

I still prefer 2016 in almost every way, but it doesn't really matter.

Same here!

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Yes it teaches you. What I'm trying to bring across to you is that they should do this ingame, while fighting the enemies.

Not through an annoying popup box, where control is taken away from me and im transported (somehow) to a white box with three enemies.

Its bad game design. Constantly taking you out of the action.

Eh, it doesn't / didn't bother me. I get your point but I think that in game tutorials are generally more intrusive - voice-over kicks in, do a barrell roll! Alright! Do another! Etc.

The way they've done it, is fine and gets you back into the game as quickly as possible.

 

[NightmareFarm]

Yes it teaches you. What I'm trying to bring across to you is that they should do this ingame, while fighting the enemies.

Not through an annoying popup box, where control is taken away from me and im transported (somehow) to a white box with three enemies.

Its bad game design. Constantly taking you out of the action.

Like the other guy said it only happens for like 20 seconds once every two or three levels. It isn't a big deal.

 

[MMaRsu]

Like the other guy said it only happens for like 20 seconds once every two or three levels. It isn't a big deal.

It annoyed me to end to the fact I stopped playing.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

It annoyed me to end to the fact I stopped playing.

You must live a charmed life for that to be too annoying to put up with.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

No shit it's not exactly the same, there was no jump button. But since 2 it had platforming out the ass.
To claim that wacky platforming is somehow out of character for doom is some confidently ignorant nonsense.

I pistol started all of them on ultra violence, so confidently ignorant is a no go. Nice ad hom. Feel free to continue going after my character rather than putting forth an argument of substance.

 

[Mediocre Arachno-Lad]

I pistol started all of them on ultra violence

Congrats, I guess.
How many classic Doom platforming sections would it take for me to post for you to delete your account? What would be the threshold for that kinda bet? Because since you're demanding "substance", and my only argument is that platforming is commonplace in classic doom wads (which is idiotic to even argue against, even the opening level of Doom 2 has a platforming secret), I expect you to put your money where your mouth is.

 

[nemiroff]

Doom Eternal should've been an alternative game mode and not as tied to bespoke level design for its departures from 2016.

 

[Drizzlehell]

They both have pretty forgettable plots tbh. It's all about the combat and presentation and nostalgia.

But I agree, Eternal is a superior game in every single possible way.

 

[mrmustard]

Who cares about the plot? Spacemarine kills demons and monsters from hell. End of story and that's absolutely fine.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

Congrats, I guess.
How many classic Doom platforming sections would it take for me to post for you to delete your account? What would be the threshold for that kinda bet? Because since you're demanding "substance", and my only argument is that platforming is commonplace in classic doom wads (which is idiotic to even argue against, even the opening level of Doom 2 has a platforming secret), I expect you to put your money where your mouth is.

Post em and I'll retract my statement and admit you were correct. Account isn't getting deleted, and I find it hilarious that you jumped to those stakes. Dooms platforming is running across gaps and periodically falling onto the right place. It makes up an absolutely minuscule amount of the gameplay. It is not being bing wahoo Mario platforming or anything even vaguely resembling doom eternal.

Post away.

Edit: another example: Dooms stock engine more or less precludes any kind of floating platforms. It is possible on some iwads using gzdoom tricks.

That being said, you and I likely have very different definitions as to what platforming means.

 

[Mediocre Arachno-Lad]

Account isn't getting deleted

Oh really, why?
So despite all the huffing and puffing, you're actually not sure.
Well, I wouldn't say those things if I wasn't sure.
That doom platforming bs turned a rosy-cheeked carefree child into a bitter man that I am.
Not taking this easy bet is already admitting I'm right, I don't need a notarized written apology from you.
Don't use fighting words if you're not looking for one.

It is not being bing wahoo Mario platforming or anything even vaguely resembling doom eternal.

Nobody said it's exactly like doom eternal. It's technically impossible for it to be ffs. So this is the strawman you were looking to build your circular reasoning around.
I guess if it's not platforms, but pillars; and you run off them onto other pillars and balance bars instead of jumping, it suddenly stops being goofy-ass platforming. And if there's proportionally less of it than in the newer one, we can deny it ever existed as well!
And those levels with their cartoony lava pits and acid walls and monster closets, suddenly become grounded and realistic, which is what the guy you're batting for suggested multiple times, in case you missed it somehow.
Which is ultimately what I'm arguing against.
Because that is really some confidently ignorant shit.

 

[gothmog]

Eternal proves that more does not equal better. I didn't enjoy it as much as I did 2016 and that annoyed me.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I think 2016 is better overall, what Eternal has going for it, it's the graphics that are amazing, specially after the RT treatment.

 

[Justin9mm]

Exactly, this guy gets it.

This guy also gets it.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

Oh really, why?
So despite all the huffing and puffing, you're actually not sure.
Well, I wouldn't say those things if I wasn't sure.
That doom platforming bs turned a rosy-cheeked carefree child into a bitter man that I am.
Not taking this easy bet is already admitting I'm right, I don't need a notarized written apology from you.
Don't use fighting words if you're not looking for one.

Nobody said it's exactly like doom eternal. It's technically impossible for it to be ffs. So this is the strawman you were looking to build your circular reasoning around.
I guess if it's not platforms, but pillars; and you run off them onto other pillars and balance bars instead of jumping, it suddenly stops being goofy-ass platforming. And if there's proportionally less of it than in the newer one, we can deny it ever existed as well!
And those levels with their cartoony lava pits and acid walls and monster closets, suddenly become grounded and realistic, which is what the guy you're batting for suggested multiple times, in case you missed it somehow.
Which is ultimately what I'm arguing against.
Because that is really some confidently ignorant shit.

To start with, I initially said there was very little platforming and what platforming there was was running from platform to platform. You then got aggressive and called me a couple of names."Thems fighting words" - no, thems disagreeing words and you tried to make it a fight.

I even started by agreeing with the person about the circle strafing they referenced.

Even though my initial premise was essentially what you just said "And if there's proportionally less of it than in the newer one," feel free to gloat to everyone about how you totally showed a random on the internet who's boss.

 

[Balducci30]

Yeah playing with the same gun the whole game is a casual, lame ass way to play...they decided to stop that lol

Eternal requires more mechanical dexterity to straight up play and get the most out of. So its funny how these "harcore gamers" are opting for the more casual, console friendly doom 2016 thats basically just strafe and shoot.

I played on console, am not an actual “hardcore gamer” and I still thought it was the best game of the year. Intense? Very much. But it’s amazing when it clicks. The mobility is incredible - probably some of the best if not the best in any FPS. The DMC comparison is accurate. I tried to play 2016 afterwards and it just felt slow, standard, boring. I hope to god they don’t return to that.