yeah, these people are itching to validate their opinions about minorities and Russia is only too happy to serve up nonsense for them
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CNN: Fake black activist social media accounts linked to Russian government
- Thread starter Battersea Power Station
- Start date
yeah, these people are itching to validate their opinions about minorities and Russia is only too happy to serve up nonsense for them
Funny seeing these people try to sneak into Black Twitter.
"Hello fellow negros, how about Chicago and black on black crime?"
Sho_Nuff82
Member
It's way past time FB and Twitter (and Tinder, lets be honest, compared to Bumble at least) got serious about getting rid of bots, dummy accounts, and hate groups.
They'll have to revisit their focus on curated timeliness vs chronological. And they'll absolutely have to stop selling ad space to Russian companies if they want to continue operating out of the US.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Russia probably made up the Michelle Obama "Whitey" rumor and fed it to Hannity.
Ankh-Right and The Alt Right finally realized they have so much in common
I've seen this before, some kind of poster on some chat infastructure who is pretending to be black. Usually post in places of black interest, sometimes places studying history, research etc. Its funny, depending on where they go they don't always have the intelligence to combat counters to their antics so they will get so mad that they will slip up and reveal they are playing a role, then when called out they pretend like that isn't the case (without even editing the slip up). They really need smarter people for these things.
Phoenix RISING
Banned
When other countries know America is so racist, they can troll us and we can't even tell the difference.
DeviantBoi
Member
Nah... more like a hand puppet... cause Russia is up his ass all the way.
Yeah, that's my takeaway as well.
The Albatross
Member
Nah. Russia was an utter mess at the time. T]he way I see it, there's some payback for the meddling in Russian affairs that happened after the fall of the Soviet Union compounded with actual politics.
It shouldn't be shocking that this Time cover is floated around pro-Putin circles as "well, they had it coming anyway"*. Which is understandable, really. Putin was deputy chief of Yeltsin's Presidential Staff during that era and later became director of the FSB, so he was witness to the utter decay of the system and probably resents the way Russia went from being a superpower to being manhandled**. He's probably getting his pound of flesh while making sure to rebuild Russia's old sphere of influence.
*surprisingly enough (or not), you can even find it over RT in an article about Colbert of all things.
**it also explains a lot about his utter distaste towards the Clintons.
This post is really ignorant of basic history and domestic Bloc politics in the fall of the Soviet Union, up to the rise of Putin and the Russian transition back towards dictatorship. I'd suggest reading or getting a cliff notes of Garry Kasparov's 2015, Winter is Coming.
The Kremlin is not meddling in American politics as some sort of revenge act for American "meddling" in the post-Soviet Union, and Putin's interest in influencing elections in the UK, France, Germany, Ukraine, Georgia, and all over Europe and North America, is not some sort of quid pro quo for Yeltzin being selected President or Chairman of RSFSR. Putin, despite his faults as a dictator, mass murderer, and Russian domestic terrorist, is not stupid and does not act out of revenge or spite, he makes calculated decisions to shift power towards himself, and the accidental byproduct, Russia.
That's good.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I'm not saying it is the cause nor the excuse (although I can see how this could be taken as such, it was poorly worded). His drive is to rebuild the previous area of influence and keep himself in power. But Putin, despite being a very rational man, knows to hold a grudge and he has a few against the Clintons. So the more misery the merrier.
Hari Seldon
Member
I am really starting to wonder as to how much of the discord going on in this country is directly related to the Kremlin. If you were going to bring down the US, this is exactly how you would do it.
Unless Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and the republican party are russian agents the level of discord was inevitable. The country was bitterly divided before Obama became president.
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
I was legitimately wondering why folks I know to lean fairly conservative were considering BLM to be violent. Now I know where they're getting this from.
I saw a fascinating Twitter thread by someone who dissected a Russian troll account and you could see all the signs pointing to it being run by someone at a troll farm. Stuff like grammar/spelling mistakes, inconsistent backstory, even down to when they tweeted (an 8-hour time frame that perfectly aligned with a 9-5 job in Moscow). It was very obvious, once it's all put together. And yet, this account had thousands of legitimate followers.
It is crazy the amount of misinformation that is being pushed by Russia.
It is crazy the amount of misinformation that is being pushed by Russia.
Do you have a link to that thread?
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Putin's input on the matter was unnecessary. Fox and rightwing media were already painting them as terrorists and tried to pin vigilante killings of police on BLM.
those people had already decided that it was violent and would have gotten their opinions validated from somewhere
But that's the exact word they put out whenever they get caught.
"It's just a troll account. Nothing to see here."
It was from a while ago and I don't think I fav'd it, lemme see if I can find it...
*heads to Google*
Didn't think I'd be able to turn it up since Googling stuff on Twitter is nearly impossible. But here it is! https://twitter.com/BarryGsGhost/status/895840586661593088 (The Storify version might be easier to read: https://storify.com/BarryGsGhost/russia-is-attacking-on-2-fronts)
Be sure to check out this thread too. It's where I found the link to the previous thread. https://twitter.com/conspirator0/status/900158639884955648
Ploid 3.0
Member
You'd think seeing these attacks would bring Americans together, and at the least cause the President to take a leading role in denouncing hate groups, seeking justice for people that are denied it, and straightening out police that obviously need more training, and a stricter hiring policy. Yet this President seems to be just the type of person Russia would want.
"Both side, both sides. Good people, good people. The other's attacked first, they attacked first."
"Both side, both sides. Good people, good people. The other's attacked first, they attacked first."
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Blacktivist, sounds like something some white guy in Russia came up with alright
Cymbal Head
Banned
Just destroy all social media.
If you don't have the dedication to stick it out waiting for your GAF account to get approved, you don't deserve to post.
If you don't have the dedication to stick it out waiting for your GAF account to get approved, you don't deserve to post.
MysteryQuesadilla
Member
Probably. But a lot of those folks get their "news" from social media feeds that cater to them.
To be fair, "Blacktivist" is also the name of a Flatbush Zombies song (rap):
(NSFW!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GceUUcXP7yE
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
at this point who isnt russian on twitter?
I'm still reading through this but this is the single most comprehensive twitter thread I've ever seen.
Awesome find!
Edit: Was going good until the Mensch props at the end. Close enough
I'm still reading through this but this is the single most comprehensive twitter thread I've ever seen.
Awesome find!
Edit: Was going good until the Mensch props at the end. Close enough
Well, she calls everyone a Russian troll. Eventually she's gonna be right.
KernelPanic
Member
Not all of them have to be Russian. They can track where and when the content originated and it tends to be Russia.
There are US alt-right spreading this crap too, not to mention real people joining in(knowingly or unknowingly).
Fake news spreads like cancer on social media.
Skellig Gra
Member
I'm starting to wonder if I'm Russian
EdibleKnife
Member
When the moon is full and a thick fog covers the moors...
KraftyKrankins
Member
This post deserves more love.
Joe T.
Member
You don't fight. It's that simple.
We need to stop treating everyone like they're our enemy and engage them with discussions/debates in good faith. According to a Pew poll on race conducted in February of this year, "87% agree that Our country should do whatever is necessary to make sure that everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed. It's difficult to see that because we spend so much of our time slinging mud and so little of it trying to understand different points of view. A little civility can go a long way.
Think of it like a street fight where the trolls happen to be the spectators cheering both parties on - the trolls lose if those two fighters can get past their differences without throwing a single punch. Much like this fight.
How About No
Member
Idk that's still a lotta filth being directed this way
Chie Satonaka
Member
I'm not sure why exactly you believe that "engaging with civility" is the answer as if somehow the entire racial dialogue in this country hasn't been minorities begging white people for literally centuries to recognize their humanity and for the white supremacist power structure saying no.
The reason that racial tensions are so hot right now is because American racism is a tradition that the majority population refuses to let go of. And unfortunately, minorities are aware of that, just like our enemies, who are more than happy to exploit it.
This NFL debacle is a prime example of what you saying being totally wrong. This was a nonviolent protest that should have opened the door to a lot of positive open dialogue about the treatment of black people in this country. Instead, we got a President who exploited the racial tension to give his base red meat, conservative talking heads calling NFL players
And nobody actually believes the results of that poll, it just sounds good. Nobody cares about American minorities, least of all black people. If they did, we'd already be in an land of true equality and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Sorry, I intend to continue calling my enemy out for who and what they are, and treating them like my enemy until they're NO LONGER MY ENEMY.
Shadow Puppetry
Member
Whoops.
Ohh, Twitter banned the account.
DirgeExtinction
Member
That reminds me...
I remember seeing a video someone I'm friends with liked that talked about how the antifa had set a date to start a civil war. It was obvious (to me) that it was fake, but looking at the comments made me sick. So many people talking about killing antifa in cold blood and how they're so we'll trained with guns and all that. I was angry and sick.
Read some Carl Jung.
It taps into the shadow complex which is linked to the enemy/stranger archetype, present in the subconscious of every human being.
Being afraid of strangers has been an evolutionnary advantage. But later on it can become a tool to manipulate masses by fear and make them do horrible things. It is easy to link the stranger archetype to anyone who is different than you - easy to manipulate the human brain into thinking those "other" people are dangerous or the source of all problems.
Waste of time for the most part, trust me.
Typically you can categorize these toons into several categories:
The Zealot: A religion to them, facts don't matter, low critical thinkings skills, if you get to a calm in your storm of a debate, prepare to swim through a load of stupidity they percieve as fact/gospel. Cult like thinking from their end will prepare you for some wild denials of facts, such as it all being "lies" and "truth" being only obtainable from one head figure or source.
If things get too rocky for them they will go full victim mode. Pack your bags at this point, this is the breaking point of finding even a minuscule amount of reasoning in them.
The Punch-clock Salesman: These are sometimes the "sources" but mostly just common koopa troopas. They can give an illusion of a threat because they can be clever in "debates" and are more about giving the impression that their "facts" can't be refuted than they are serioiusly believing in the information they present. They care more about the results; recruiting more into their belief system, more numbers for their ranks. Usually will completely ignore anything that counters their points and will purposely misinterpret your arguments to keep the debate going when strawmen can't easily be created.
Dynamic discussion will not be found here, you will only get talking points. You are not debating a human with unique ideas looking to develop and change, you are debating a person on a mission pulling out various tools from a kit. Its a waste of your time.
Breakdown their debate strategy; repeat it back to them and they will flee from you.
The Shadow Agent: These guys hide in the shadows and darkness. They prefer to use the system to carry out their goals through areas of authority; academics, politics, law enforcement, judgement, pseudoscience etc. You can't really reach these people unless they snap and slip up on social media or something. The only chance of them doing a 180 is probably a life threatening event caused by their own planning and scheming seriously back firing.
The Conscious Inmate: These are the only people you realistically have a chance with. Have high critical thinking skill but grew up in the wrong environment. Something in them is telling them what is being fed to them is wrong, but with no presentation of accurate information or perhaps even fear of being ostracized by, family or friends the person puts up with the BS and entertains the idea. You may get through to some of THESE people if they witness a debate you have with one of the other types but I personally don't feel its worth it and prefer them to get the courage to seek out accurate knowledge on their own accord.
I'm not defending this at all, but aren't you the guy that posted about how many of the Jacobites were black in the Hotep thread before telling people to research more, in a library of all places, when challenged on it?
I don't think many people are going to accept Jung as much of an authority.
The root problem in racism is socio-political, not biological. Anthropology and history have far more to teach us here than biology and metaphysical psychology. Othering people is useful to societies, and it is especially useful to states. For historical reasons black people and, to a lesser extend, the "orient" became that other for the conception of a "West".
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
"I'm black and blah blah blah."
"Blacks like me."
Like bruh... You're profile pic is black, does saying your black or using the word blacks going to trick black twitter?
I don`t know. You`ll has to find out yourselfs.
ugh.
It would've been funny if this shit didn't work with an impressionable set of the voting populace.
I personally didn't say that all Jacobites were black, I said that (from what I've researched) a majority of Gaelic speakers were black and were natives in that land (right now a bit over 1% of the population in Ireland can speak it). Actually I probably should have expounded in explaining that there seemed to have been two groups of people in that area who lived separated for the most part, but definitely had influences on each others cultures.
There are some old books talking about it; specifically three more that I'm personally aware of including a journal of a man describing the color of people in that area that could speak it, that was a really good one I should have mentioned but its not on the computer I'm currently using so I'd have to find it again. Beyond that I had found that there was some kind of notice in the US of a runaway black slave who's only notifying trait was that he could only speak Gaelic.
Some black historians seem to have been researching similar things as well finding out gospel music and the like had Gaelic origins. He had also apparently found the runaway Gaelic slave piece too.The article has the person drawing slightly different conclusion than me, but that's only because I've probably been reading other documentation he hadn't run into. I also believe you will find more value talking with your elderly relatives (that might have documentation or even unshakable memories and information passed down to them), than you may find a historian that has no relation to you and doesn't particularity benefit to accurately documenting or recording it.
But back to your main point, the Jacobite book I had recently read, that was fresh in my memory at that point and I could quickly give a title of that book showing native blacks in those areas in positions that a slave couldn't be in. I've a lot of old books, some physical some on the computer so it takes me time to find references, easiest one to get to prove I wasn't just spewing out hearsay.
Well first of all the Jacobite in question, that of the '45, were Scottish not Irish. As an Irish speaker myself I can guarantee you that more than 1% of Irish people speak it. It's required in schools, so a great number of people speak it at least to an intermediate level. Moreover they were not black, in fact I would be somewhat surprised if there was a single black person who lived in the highlands circa 1745, certainly there are no records of any being integrated into the clan system.
Who the Highlanders and Lowlanders? The Highlanders of the mainland vs the isles? There were probably some black people in the Lowlands, perhaps a few hundred? The Lowlanders were overwhelmingly on the side of the government in the '45 though, again I'd be highly surprised, though it is possible, if a single black person fought on the side of the Jacobites.
There was one book that you posted from the 20th century. That's not a good source. I've read many many documents from that period in Scotland. Not a one has ever mentioned a black person that resided in Scotland, though I'm sure some did live in the Lowlands. The Lowlander literati will occasionally mention black people in the colonies and in Africa.
I don't have time to read that article right now, but it's quite well know that some of the Scottish-Gaelic, not Irish, speakers evangelized among the slave populations in America. Supposedly it was the first recorded, I usually dislike this claim but I'd have to look into this specific case, European language taught to slaves in the British Americas. Though I rather doubt that because the SPCK was from the 18th century. There are certainly records of slaves singing hymns in Gaelic. What you're doing is taking a piece of information, decoupling it from its obvious context, and brandying it about as if it means that you are correct when it doesn't mean suggest your thesis even stripped of its context.
I am a historian of 18th century Britain who I focuses on Scotland. Generally speaking academic historians absolutely benefit from accurately portraying history, it's literally our job, and falsifying evidence is a big deal. Also no one has living relatives from 1745 so "unshakable memories", and you'll find that memories are anything but unshakable, of modern people aren't important here.
Also this is a massive cop out. You're claiming to have access to sources that just say you are correct without giving anyone else any access to them except for the one in this last thread that was quite easily debunked. The implication is, don't trust those idiot lying historians go find magical sources that tell you what you want to believe. And this is the root problem for me, it's fundamentally incredibly undermining to historians and their work generally. It's the same approach southerners use to justify their lost cause nonsense.
Maybe there were a few, though I am incredibly skeptical because it's exactly the sort of thing Lowlanders and English people would have commented on, but it would not have been very many at all. Moreover, the English and, to a lesser extent, the Lowlanders tended to compare Irish people with black people, though I don't think I've ever seen them do this with highlanders for reasons I'd assume relate to the fact that Highland lords were well respected members of British society. Perhaps that's where some of the confusion came form. But honestly at some level someone would have had to intentionally misread the sources to come to that conclusion.
Anyway, feel free to post the book, even though I feel like it's probably the one from the last thread.
"Lots of old books" is meaningless and sounds like a vague appeal to archival authority without having to bother with the whole issue of citation and thus having a good source.
Look I'm really not trying to be rude, but as a historian of eighteenth-century Scotland this is rather infuriating. Rather ironically considering another post of yours in this thread, there isn't any content here. There isn't any information behind your claim other than some random book from the twentieth century.
You should probably do more research:
A Description of the Western Islands of Scotland, Circa 1695 by Martin Martin
Page numbers may vary depending on what copy you can find (there are also different volumes, and the recordings are also published in different titled books), but at least for the one I have descriptions of Islanders (on different Isles described around each page noted) can be found on page 194, 224, 230, 239, 249.
I think page 230 is the only page that describes a few fairer people and a few English speakers. Page 249 is particularity powerful, sometimes I forget somethings I've read so I'm actually glad sometimes I'm challenged to take time to look this stuff back up, I actually learned something from this, so that's pretty exciting:
The inhabitants are generally well proportioned, and of a black complexion; they speak only the Irish tongue, and use the habit, diet etc., that is used in the Western Isles: they are all Protestants, and observe the festivals of Christmas, Easter, and Good Friday; but the women only observe the festival of the nativity of the blessed Virgin. Kilouran is the principal church in this isle, and the village in which this church is, hath its name from it.
Edit: For the heck of it I'll post the rest of the Isles I guess.
page 194:
The inhabitants of this isle are generally well proportioned, and their complexion is for the most part black. They are not obliged to art in forming their bodies, for nature never fails to act her part bountifully to them; and perhaps there is no part of the habitable globe where so few bodily imperfections are to be seen, nor any children that go more early. I have observed several of them walk alone before they were ten months old; they are bathed all over every morning and evening, some in cold, some in warm water; but the latter is most commonly used and they wear nothing strait about them. The mother generally suckles the child, failing of which a nurse is provided, for they seldom bring up any by hand; they give new-born infants fresh butter to take away the miconium, and this they do for several days; they taste neither sugar, nor cinnamon, nor have they any daily allowance of sack bestowed on them, as the custom is elsewhere, nor is the nurse allowed to taste ale. On the north-west side of Strath lies that part of Skye called Macleod's Country, possessed by Macleod. Genealogists say he is lineally descended from Leod, son to the Black Prince of Man. He is head of an ancient tribe.
page 224:
They own themselves to be descended of French parentage. Their surname in English is Fullerton, and their title Kirk-Mitchell, the place of their residence. If tradition be true, this little family is said to be of 700 years standing. The present possessor obliged me with the sight of his old and new charters, by which he is one of the king's coroners within this island, and as such he hath a halbert peculiar to his office. He has his right of late from the family of Hamilton, wherein his title and perquisites of coroner are confirmed to him and his heirs. He is obliged to have three men to attend him upon all public emergencies, and he is bound by his office to pursue all malefactors and to deliver them to the steward, or in his absence to the next judge. And if any of the inhabitants refuse to pay their rents at the usual term, the coroner is bound to take him personally or to seize his goods. And if it should happen that the coroner with his retinue of three men is not sufficient to put his office in execution, then he summons all the inhabitants to concur with him; and immediately they rendezvous to the place, where he fixes his coroner's staff. The perquisites due to the coroner are a firelet or bushel of oats and a lamb from every village in the isle, both which are punctually paid him at the ordinary terms.
The inhabitants of this isle are well proportioned, generally brown, and some of a black complexion. They enjoy a good state of health, and have a genius for all callings or employments, though they have but few mechanics. They wear the same habit with those of the nearest isles, and are very civil. They all speak the Irish language, yet the English tongue prevails on the east side, and ordinarily the ministers preach in it, and in Irish on the west side. Their ordinary asseveration is by Nale, for I did not hear any oath in the island.
page 230:
The inhabitants are all Protestants, and speak the Irish tongue generally, there being but few that speak English; they are grave and reserved in their conversation; they are accustomed not to bury on Friday; they are fair or brown in complexion, and use the same habit, diet, etc., that is made use of in the adjacent continent and isles. There is only one inn in this isle.
page 239:
The natives here are very well proportioned, being generally black of complexion and free from bodily imperfections. They speak the Irish language, and wear the plaid, bonnet, etc., as other islanders.
That's kind of missing the point. The presence of these twitter accounts doesn't mean there aren't black activists promoting black causes. The presence of pro Trump Russian bots doesn't mean there aren't pro Trump Americans promoting him on twitter and elsewhere. The presence of these accounts in gamergate circles doesn't mean there aren't sexist misogynist gamers out there.
What it does mean is that their voices have been amplified to an extent we have yet to fully comprehend, but every day it becomes clearer that they are louder than many first thought. And that just drags down the general discourse - which is the whole point.
Whenever I read this stuff, I remember learning about the FCC and how they used to get inundated with mail telling them about being offended by "objectionable" content on television. They even scolded broadcast television due to a write in campaign after Schindlers List was aired. Not because it was disturbing or violent, but because some of the prisoners had exposed breasts. It turns out, it was a small group of far right christians but they were so efficient at these mail campaigns that they convinced people they were a larger group of Americans than reality. This small group, much like the Russian bots, convinced a government agency they were a large portion of America and were offended - and may have contributed to shaping much of the censorship in American television throughout the 90s.
Edit: too many huge posts next to each other!!
Oh wow, the same bullshit that you posted in the last thread.
I do lots of research in and about Scotland. It's literally my job. How much archival research about Scotland have you done exactly? Normally I wouldn't bring this up, because I think it's rude to try and bully people, but you've decided to call me into question on this front.
Meanwhile your idea of research is finding one book, taking it out of context, something along the lines of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people#Black_Irish as quoted in the last thread and then handwaved away by you being an example of what was meant there, and then act like your work is done. This is a pretty important error. You probably don't have experience reading 18th century Scottish documents and are probably generally quite unaware of the context more generally. But we can only understand documents through their context. Finding a random old book that says something the kinda sounds like it says what you want it to say isn't research. It's lazy nonsense. Coincidentally, it's pretty much the same thing you did with that one link you had, which I went back and read, but somewhat less egregious because you weren't also disagreeing with it while lying, and so far this is the only time I'll say you've done that intentionally, about having "slightly different conclusions", even though you have an entirely different one.
Meanwhile, you've totally managed to avoid the many other points I made in that post. Including your grossly incorrect assessment of the state of the Irish language currently. And of course you've competently failed to mention why the entire understanding of Scottish and Irish history that has been produced by centuries of scholarship , i.e. not reading a single book and calling it quits, is totally and completely wrong.
Even if we accept this one source as actually saying what you want to say. If a single source is sufficient I can find you overwhelming evidence that they also ate babies. Historically resource involves many sources, not just one. People lie, and make up stories. More importantly they understand the world around them through a cultural framework we can never fully recapture.
And even if we want to be ridiculous and grant you that large numbers the Islanders were Black, I'm still not seeing where most Gaelic speakers were black is coming from.
Also I'm honestly curious, do you have some explanation for why Scotland is quite white today? Did these large populations not intermarry? Also only a few thousand Jacobites, if I recall correctly 4500 or so, were transported. So if the majority of Scottish Gaelic speakers were black, where the are the great numbers, there were around half a million Scottish Gaelic speakers, that weren't transported?
This argument falls apart on a bunch of different levels, because it's nothing but poor extrapolation from a single almost certainly misinterpreted source.
Ironically, if anything that source mostly shows just how unfamiliar with Black people Gaelic speakers were.
This matters. The way you're wrong doesn't just challenge the entry of many people's life work, including my own, but it also challenges the fundamental principles of history as a discipline. In your game essentially anything goes. If you can find one document that you can read in any way you please to get to your thesis it's correct, context, sense, and rigor be damned.
The book is here by the way, https://archive.org/details/descriptionofwes00mart, if anyone wants to read it.
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