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[leadbelly]

Words acquire a meaning based on the way they are used, not by what their root words historically meant.

Yeah. I am agreeing with you

Another definition

ho·mo·pho·bi·a (hm-fb-)
n.
1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.

It doesn't just suggest it though, it is also how it is defined. I agree though, its use is much broader than that now.

I might agree with you if Martin didn't have the history he did.

And in my original comment I wasn't speaking of Martin as such, just that I felt it doesn't necessarily mean the person is homophobic as its intention isn't really to attack homosexuality, it is more aimed at masculinity in general. That is really what the point of my post was.

 

[Enzom21]

Wait... Roland Martin isn't gay?

Why is it that whenever someone says something homophobic and they happen to be black they get called nigger?
It happened during the Kobe Byrant thing, it happened during the Prop 8 debacle and it's happening again... http://themindislimitless.tumblr.co...-white-gay-people-the-appropriate-response-to

Why is there rarely any condemnation for this type of response?

 

[marathonfool]

Reading the twitter comments. I see Martin disparaging metrosexual men and not necessarily targeting gay men. I know it is a thin line since the stereotypes of gay men are flamboyant and fashion focused. His comments cut across not just the gay community, but the entire idea of normative gender roles and fashion.

I'm glad he was suspended for his stupid and ignorant tweets. A person with that much visibility should know better.

 

[KevinRo]

Wait... Roland Martin isn't gay?

Why is it that whenever someone says something homophobic and they happen to be black they get called nigger?
It happened during the Kobe Byrant thing, it happened during the Prop 8 debacle and it's happening again... http://themindislimitless.tumblr.co...-white-gay-people-the-appropriate-response-to

Why is there rarely any condemnation for this type of response?

You're looking at it wrong.

Ignorant people respond with hatred to spur further hatred. They try to find the most vile and hated thing that can hurt their subject the most. If they were white, asian, latino, indian, etc. they would find the most racist/harshest slur to call them too.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

Words acquire a meaning based on the way they are used, not by what their root words historically meant.

Still, there was no history for that word, it was made up and used incorrectly form the start.
It would be like if we started calling people like Hilary Clinton and Jack Thompson 'Videophobes';
30 years from now it might be commonplace and unquestioned, but it was still coined incorrectly, they dont have an irrational FEAR of videogames, they wouldn't mind being locked in a room with a videogame in the middle.

It's bothered me before too, but there's no point now since it's ingrained in society
"HomoCon", derived from the Latin Homo Contemno, or Homo Hate, would be cool

 

[Gaborn]

Reading the twitter comments. I see Martin disparaging metrosexual men and not necessarily targeting gay men. I know it is a thin line since the stereotypes of gay men are flamboyant and fashion focused. His comments cut across not just the gay community, but the entire idea of normative gender roles and fashion.

I'm glad he was suspended for his stupid and ignorant tweets. A person with that much visibility should know better.

Doesn't work given his past comments.

 

[Cyan]

Why is there rarely any condemnation for this type of response?

A few people did it here after Prop 8.

Insta-perma.

 

[thekad]

What? Those tweets weren't homophobic at all.

 

[marathonfool]

Doesn't work given his past comments.

I understand he made bigoted comments against gays before. I'm reading the tweets again and you're extrapolating the tweets way beyond the scope.

He's pointing toward the true identity of masculinity defined within the context of Super Bowl testosterone.

 

[Gaborn]

I understand he made bigoted comments against gays before. I'm reading the tweets again and you're extrapolating the tweets way beyond the scope.

He's pointing toward the true identity of masculinity defined within the context of Super Bowl testosterone.

He may or may not have intended it that way, but his past history is not going to lead to people being particularly charitable to him in this regard. At best the comment was ignorant and loaded with implications that effeminacy (which is frequently used by bigots as code for gay) is for some reason a negative trait. He hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Wolfe]

Seriously? The guy likes sports. He's spouting off during the biggest annual sporting event in america, who cares? I see nothing wrong with what he said.

"Manhood" and "man cards" have nothing to do with being gay, and I take his comments as poking fun at that rather than the sexuality of anyone. I agree with him in his questioning of men that don't like sports. I find those people weird. I don't care who they are fucking.

Who cares? Chatting with your "bruhs" or whatever is one thing, tweeting it for the whole world to read? Cmon.

 

[LQX]

That ad also came off odd to me. Like who is it suppose to be far? Their selling men's underwear but do most men really want to see a half naked soccer player modeling it?

 

[Replicant]

Roland Martin is a fruit himself. Only a democrat deep in the closet would say stuff like this.

I thought it's amusing that he ridicules guys who buy Beckham undies but his own fashion style is 10 times more flaming than the stereotypical gay gays on TV series.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Don't see anything offensive at all about the tweets. Didn't deserve a suspension. Hypersensitivity ftw.

 

[marathonfool]

He may or may not have intended it that way, but his past history is not going to lead to people being particularly charitable to him in this regard. At best the comment was ignorant and loaded with implications that effeminacy (which is frequently used by bigots as code for gay) is for some reason a negative trait. He hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt.

Well, since I'm straight, I don't see it the same as you. I know straight men who are very much fashion conscious who would be just as offended by the assertions of Martin on male masculinity. I'm sure there are gay men who hate the color pink or choose to look like a lumberjack.

When he mentions pink, H&M underwear, and Beckham(who is straight). I see it as an abrasive and narrow definition of normative masculinity. This is something native to American culture. Europe and Asia have different views on outward masculinity.

 

[Volimar]

That ad also came off odd to me. Like who is it suppose to be far? Their selling men's underwear but do most men really want to see a half naked soccer player modeling it?

"Hey ladies. If you buy your man this underwear, you can pretend he's David when you're in the sack."

"Hey guys. If you drink this brand of beer, hot twins will want to sleep with you."

Same principle.

 

[Gaborn]

Well, since I'm straight, I don't see it the same as you. I know straight men who are very much fashion conscious who would be just as offended by the assertions of Martin on male masculinity. I'm sure there are gay men who hate the color pink or choose to look like a lumberjack.

Sure. I'm about as effeminate as Rex Ryan (without the foot fetish. Socks though... but that's a different topic). That is, I'm really not. I'm the football/baseball junkie that likes basketball when the Pistons are good and will follow hockey in the playoffs (hey, the Wings have made it almost every year of my life, I'm allowed to not care about the regular season). The fact remains that there is a very strong correlation between bigots talking about effeminate men and referring to gays.

When he mentions pink, H&M underwear, and Beckham(who is straight). I see it as an abrasive and narrow definition of normative masculinity. This is something native to American culture. Europe and Asia have different views on outward masculinity.

I think again there is very little reason to be this charitable with Martin in particular.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

"Hey ladies. If you buy your man this underwear, you can pretend he's David when you're in the sack."

"Hey guys. If you drink this brand of beer, hot twins will want to sleep with you."

Same principle.

What? Your examples don't make sense. The beer isn't being marketed to someone else to buy for someone else.

 

[Enzom21]

You're looking at it wrong.

Ignorant people respond with hatred to spur further hatred. They try to find the most vile and hated thing that can hurt their subject the most. If they were white, asian, latino, indian, etc. they would find the most racist/harshest slur to call them too.

But i'm really not. This is almost always exclusive to black people if something homophobic is said. During Prop 8 people were not screaming "spic" or "chink" or "honky" just nigger.

A few people did it here after Prop 8.

Insta-perma.

That's because nigger is against the TOS, so of course the mods will insta-perma. I'm referring to the members of GAF who are gay. There was very little condemnation of the people calling people nigger during Prop 8. There was even one person who said "I don't agree with it, but I understand the anger."

 

[The Chosen One]

Honestly, I occasionally joke around with other guys about issues of perceived masculinity. (Heck, we just had a topic here on GAF the other day about soap and loofah's that involved the issue).

But you can be masculine whether you're a straight or gay male, so it's not always a "gay" issue. Often times it's a male/female gender issue when comments on masculinity are made.

Having said that, Roland Martin deserves to be suspended or fired. When you're in the public eye like that, your comments can affect a large swath of people. You can't put your drunken bar conversations with buddies on blast. His comments were just juvenile for someone who is a TV analyst on a nationally televised show.

I've lost a TON of respect for people after reading their Twitter gibberish. These people need to get off Twitter asap. It's just embarrassing seeing these people write misspelled stream-of-conscious ramblings

 

[Gaborn]

That's because nigger is against the TOS, so of course the mods will insta-perma. I'm referring to the members of GAF who are gay. There was very little condemnation of the people calling people nigger during Prop 8. There was even one person who said "I don't agree with it, but I understand the anger."

You're always going to get idiots that support other idiots bigotry. That WAS an emotional time but I don't think using that word would be appropriate any more than, say, Kobe using faggot was appropriate. Bigotry whether you're black or white, gay or straight or whatever else is not acceptable.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

when keeping it real goes wrong....

Perfect.

edit: Oh, a racism in the gay community debate.

 

[CornBurrito]

Don't see anything offensive at all about the tweets. Didn't deserve a suspension. Hypersensitivity ftw.

The tweets aren't offensive on their own. But when you put them together with his other comments they become somewhat offensive.

 

[Dark Knyght]

Don't see anything offensive at all about the tweets. Didn't deserve a suspension. Hypersensitivity ftw.

This.

 

[Dude Abides]

The tweets aren't offensive on their own. But when you put them together with his other comments they become somewhat offensive.

I think suggesting gay dudes should have the shit slapped out of them is offensive on its own.

 

[leadbelly]

The tweets aren't offensive on their own. But when you put them together with his other comments they become somewhat offensive.

This sort of goes back to my original comment. It is subject to interpretation or intent then. Can such a comment be inherently homophobic on its own? If not then it is the homophobic intent of the person.

 

[akira28]

Disappointed, he would make a nice daddy bear.

Also, whoa... didn't know him and his wife are deep in the pray the gay away camp.

That's a red flag in my booklet, but , never know.

And yeah he does look like a human beartato.

 

[Regulus Tera]

David Beckham in underwear was very outrageous though.

 

[commedieu]

Every single comment that this guy has made are the same comments your friend used to make about homosexuals, before they came out.

Little too much to taste.

 

[bjb]

Absolutely none of those tweets were derogatory or homophobic.

The sheer fact that any community is calling for this guys' job is just utterly shameful.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Glad he got fired for his scummy, homophobic remarks.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Brandon Spikes was the guy who wore that pink suit.That suit looked terrible.I don;t think anyone with a fashion sense would wear that.

 

[Enzom21]

You're always going to get idiots that support other idiots bigotry. That WAS an emotional time but I don't think using that word would be appropriate any more than, say, Kobe using faggot was appropriate. Bigotry whether you're black or white, gay or straight or whatever else is not acceptable.

Yes, I know where racism and bigotry come from... that is not my issue here. The issue I am having is with the almost complete silence from non-black members of the gay community when something like this occurs.
No one seems to chastise the members of the gay ommunity who use nigger in a retaliatory fashion.

It just seems very hypocritical to be so vocal about any and every type of bigotry aimed at the gay community, yet absolutely silent when it comes to the racism within the gay community.

 

[Killing_Joke]

Geez, People are sensitive these days. I call my gay friend a fag all the time. Is it immature? Yup. But am i homophobic? Nope, I have more gay friends then straight. I love how people defend freedom of speech but call for peoples heads for anything slightly offensive.

However, he should know better. I'm like that with my friends because they know me and we find it funny. If you already been targeted as a homophob before the best thing to do would stay clear from all types of dumb jokes.

 

[Emitan]

Geez, People are sensitive these days. I call my gay friend a fag all the time. Is it immature? Yup. But am i homophobic? Nope, I have more gay friends then straight. I love how people defend freedom of speech but call for peoples heads for anything slightly offensive.

There's a difference between what you say to a close personal friend and about a complete stranger.

 

[Gaborn]

Yes, I know where racism and bigotry come from... that is not my issue here. The issue I am having is with the almost complete silence from non-black members of the gay community when something like this occurs.
No one seems to chastise the members of the gay ommunity who use nigger in a retaliatory fashion.

It just seems very hypocritical to be so vocal about any and every type of bigotry aimed at the gay community, yet absolutely silent when it comes to the racism within the gay community.

Frankly I think racism from the gay community is less common than homophobia in the black community. That certainly does not mean there are not gay men and women who are racist, nor does it mean that all or even most black people are homophobic. Everyone knows there were some awful things said around the prop 8 incident but it's telling I think that is the first, and really the only incident that comes to my mind. Maybe I'm forgetting some, certainly I can point to multiple incidents of homophobia from various people, mostly white, some black.

I guess I'd want more than one data point that you feel is being ignored before I fully agree with your premise, although I DO fully agree that when such silence occurs it is unacceptable.

 

[Replicant]

Geez, People are sensitive these days. I call my gay friend a fag all the time. Is it immature? Yup. But am i homophobic? Nope, I have more gay friends then straight. I love how people defend freedom of speech but call for peoples heads for anything slightly offensive.

LOL, since the douche mentioned in the OP didn't give a shit about the people he might offend with his remark, why should those who are offended go out of their way not to condemn him? If you treat others like shit, you are going to get your ass handed to you. What goes around comes around. People don't like being insulted, so don't try to insult them. And if you do insult them, don't go back and cry "but but freedom of speech?" when you get your consequences.

No one cares what you say to your friend (who understands you). But try slinging that word to someone you don't know or just got to know or better, a real gay guy and see where it can land you.

 

[Killing_Joke]

There's a difference between what you say to a close personal friend and about a complete stranger.

LOL, since the douche mentioned in the OP didn't give a shit about the people he might offend with his remark, why should those who are offended go out of their way not to condemn him? If you treat others like shit, you are going to get your ass handed to you. What goes around comes around. People don't like being insulted, so don't try to insult them. And if you do insult them, don't go back and cry "but but freedom of speech?" when you get your consequences.

No one cares what you say to your friend (who understands you). But try slinging that word to someone you don't know or just got to know or better, a real gay guy and see where it can land you.

Which is why i also said..

However, he should know better. I'm like that with my friends because they know me and we find it funny. If you already been targeted as a homophob before the best thing to do would stay clear from all types of dumb jokes.

I personally don't think he was trying to offend anyone. He thought he was saying funny shit. Sometimes you say shit without knowing it's offensive till someone points it out. I don't think he was going " hey i feel like saying some major homophobic remarks to piss off the gay community". Some backlash to get an apology is fine but to suspend him or fire him? A tad extreme imo.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Seriously? The guy likes sports. He's spouting off during the biggest annual sporting event in america, who cares? I see nothing wrong with what he said.

"Manhood" and "man cards" have nothing to do with being gay, and I take his comments as poking fun at that rather than the sexuality of anyone. I agree with him in his questioning of men that don't like sports. I find those people weird. I don't care who they are fucking.

Wait? What? Why is it weird if you are a man and don't like sports? I'm straight as an arrow, but find watching sports mind numbingly boring.

 

[Replicant]

I personally don't think he was trying to offend anyone. He thought he was saying funny shit. Sometimes you say shit without knowing it's offensive till someone points it out. I don't think he was going " hey i feel like saying some major homophobic remarks to piss off the gay community". Some backlash to get an apology is fine but to suspend him or fire him? A tad extreme imo.

I'd just assume that you miss all of those posts above us and in other pages pointing out that he's had a past of making bigoted comments about gays in general. This was just the last straw.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Never seen or heard of this guy before this thread. Reading his tweets and looking at his pictures, the dude is clearly in the closet.

Can't wait for him to get pushed out.

 

[Dark Octave]

I'm sure his wife (who just LOVES those sinful gays she tries to convert through prayer) is just crushed at his bigotry.

And to be clear, I have no problem with people who have a religious objection to homosexuality, you're free to believe what you want there, but when you then claim you have no problem with gays and proceed to stereotype and make bigoted remarks, then you damage your own credibility as well as your faith's.

I don't agree. How does a religious reason to bigot hold any more weight than any other reason?

And what the guy said actually wasn't even that bad. It's the Super Bowl. Macho. Tough guys. I'm sure 95% of everyone who saw the player in a pink jumpsuit was thinking "WTF". Something like that tends to stand out and yes pink is a feminine color. I honestly can see myself saying any one of those tweets jokingly and it would have nothing to do with gay people.

I guess he should have phrased it: "If a straight dude at your Super Bowl party is hyped about David Beckham's H&M underwear ad, smack the ish out of him!"

 

[apana]

So when does Fox News offer him a job?

 

[Gaborn]

I don't agree. How does a religious reason to bigot hold any more weight than any other reason?

I draw a distinction between simple bigotry, that is, people who believe a person is inherently less because they possess a certain quality, whether it's because they are a certain race, or sexual orientation, or religion, or whatever characteristic and people that believe something is wrong for moral reasons. I mean, do I agree that homosexuality is wrong? Fuck no, being gay I'd be crazy to do so. But hey, you're free to believe something like that so long as you then don't apply that to treat an individual as less because of it. That is, if someone REALLY believes and lives their "hate the sin not the sinner" creed I don't have an issue. The problem is they almost never do.

And what the guy said actually wasn't even that bad. It's the Super Bowl. Macho. Tough guys. I'm sure 95% of everyone who saw the player in a pink jumpsuit was thinking "WTF". I honestly can see myself saying any one of those tweets jokingly and it would have nothing to do with gay people.

I'm not sure why people think "it's the super bowl" is a relevant defense to bigotry.

I guess he should have phrased it: "If a straight dude at your Super Bowl party is hyped about David Beckham's H&M underwear ad, smack the ish out of him!"

How about he just not say it at all?

 

[NomarTyme]

Lol a dumbass with a twitter account.

 

[Dark Octave]

How about he just not say it at all?

Because that's the kind of things immature guys joke about since we were little kids. Has nothing to do with homosexuality. In my case it wouldn't anyway.

I'm sorry but a guy wearing a pink jump suit (anywhere, not just the Super Bowl) isn't common. I can't recall ever seeing it and it would catch my attention for sure. Now is he wrong for wearing a pink jump suit? Of course not, but if you are my friend and a male, gay or straight, you're getting clowned for wearing a pink jump suit.

 

[FlashFlooder]

You're kidding right? CNN is way better. Their pundit conversations are much more friendly and balanced with conservatives and liberals.

Fox News is a conservative circle jerk where they occasionally bring on a liberal to yell at him.

CNN, way better? Haha, no. Sorry, no.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I'm not sure why people think "it's the super bowl" is a relevant defense to bigotry.

Sports and religion have more than a few similarities.

 

[SapientWolf]

Never seen or heard of this guy before this thread. Reading his tweets and looking at his pictures, the dude is clearly in the closet.

Can't wait for him to get pushed out.

Don't you mean pushed in?

Yeah, closet or not, it comes off as some kind of defense mechanism for insecurity. It's just not a healthy attitude to have.

 

[Trigger Warning]

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