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[hammysaurusrex]

Well, that's depressingly close minded.

True, but to be honest, it's kind of a relief someone is willing to admit their position is nothing more than a serious case of the "feelies" - I much prefer that to going through mental gymnastics to try and rationalize a position anyway way they can with a bunch of rat studies and assumptions by self-proclaimed health gurus while ignoring the actual epidemiology.

 

[jmdajr]

Some years from now diet drinks will be Coca Cola's main cash cow. Every year more and more people come to realize how bad sugar is for you.

They need these products to succeed and will market them as such.

Plus we've all been conditioned to think we need flavored anything to drink. Some people will never drink water. They've grown up drinking sugar their whole lives. And not just soda, but juice, Gatorade, etc.

I say we all stop giving them our money. But hey, that's not how the economy works and of course FREEDOM.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

But that's now how science works. Something isn't true for you, it's just true.

And calling the difference between regular soda and diet soda "marketing BS" is just confusing. Are you saying you think diet soda actually does contain calories?

Calories aren't the only thing that is "bad" for you hell you need calories to live right .
They just put different stuff in the soda to still taste sweet but are in my opinion still bad for you.

I understand that science is science to everyone, but as far as soda is concerned does not matter to me diet, zero, reg, hell even "LIFE" or whatever its called.
Its all bad for you.

If that does make me ignorant about sodas in this case that is fine with me.
Sorry about derailing the thread so much that was not my intent .

 

[hammysaurusrex]

You can say that we've studied it for decades, and run all these studies, and none of them show any evidence of harm. I would retort that it's only been around for a few decades -- a mere moment in the history of the human species.

So basically we can never know anything about anything because it might never cross some arbitrary threshold someone desires, since there's always more hypothetical research and questions in the future.

Also known as, "we don't know everything, therefore we know nothing" - the same argument made by HIV/AIDS deniers and anti-vaccinationists.

 

[The Lamp]

Coca Cola is not healthy for you and that should be the end of the conversation.

Maybe if you don't read the thread or OP. They're talking about Coke Zero.

I'm currently studying a masters in food science and engineering and this thread is just too much for me.

 

[Mendrox]

When it comes to what I think is bad for your health I really am.
And if I'm 100% wrong that is fine no problem you all enjoy your soda nothing wrong with that.
But for me soda is one of the worst things you can drink for you health (No shit that you can drink stuff that will make you deadly ill, but you get my point).

This and it won't change my mind and I will still tell people to drink more water than soda. Sodas in general are not healthy. Except for diet sodas are not healthy for your teeth so please use a drinking straw.

But drink in moderation (which many American people are unable to - glad you finally got size limits...) and it is fine.

 

[SMattera]

So basically we can never know anything about anything because it might never cross some arbitrary threshold someone desires, since there's always more hypothetical research and questions in the future.

Also known as, "we don't know everything, therefore we know nothing" - the same argument made by HIV/AIDS deniers and anti-vaccinationists.

No. You have to include benefits into your calculation. It's true that you can use the same logic to dismiss vaccines. But there's a crucial difference: vaccines give us immense, tangible, measurable benefits.

Drinking a diet coke in place of water gives no benefits.

 

[jmdajr]

Calories aren't the only thing that is "bad" for you hell you need calories to live right .
They just put different stuff in the soda to still taste sweet but are in my opinion still bad for you.

I understand that science is science to everyone, but as far as soda is concerned does not matter to me diet, zero, reg, hell even "LIFE" or whatever its called.
Its all bad for you.

If that does make me ignorant about sodas in this case that is fine with me.
Sorry about derailing the thread so much that was not my intent .

If the soda industry going belly up from "mis-information", I'm not going to feel too bad about it. They have caused almost irreparable damage from real sugar addiction and science denying on that front.
They don't care about REAL science.

But they will adapt and survive. They will keep you hooked.

 

[Matt]

Calories aren't the only thing that is "bad" for you hell you need calories to live right .
They just put different stuff in the soda to still taste sweet but are in my opinion still bad for you.

I understand that science is science to everyone, but as far as soda is concerned does not matter to me diet, zero, reg, hell even "LIFE" or whatever its called.
Its all bad for you.

If that does make me ignorant about sodas in this case that is fine with me.
Sorry about derailing the thread so much that was not my intent .

See that's the thing, there is nothing wrong with not wanting to drink them for whatever reason, or even for finding the idea of calorie free sweetness somehow disturbing. Those are opinions.

But saying "it's bad for you" isn't an opinion, it's presenting your beliefs as a fact without any scientific or rational basis.

And don't be sorry, this is a perfectly valid path for this discussion to go down.

 

[BronsonLee]

Also known as, "we don't know everything, therefore we know nothing" - the same argument made by HIV/AIDS deniers and anti-vaccinationists.

It's fucking soda
Let's tranquilo

 

[hammysaurusrex]

It's fucking soda

I don't have a vested interest in defending calorie-free soda per-se - I'm more fascinated by the logic used to advocate the idea that people who consume them must be "wrong" because of a bunch of vague scientific reasons that no one seems able to explain in a manner that is consistent with how science is applied to the rest of public health decisions.

 

[slit]

It's a decent rule of thumb.

For example, for decades, trans fats were widely considered to be healthier than their natural counterparts (butter, lard). Now, the opposite is true. Who's to say that, a few decades from now, we won't hold a similar opinion of artificial sweeteners? We have no real evidence that they're harmful today, but a few decades honestly isn't that much time in the grand scheme of things. I drink 1-2 diet sodas every day, but I wouldn't scorn anyone who wanted to avoid them.

A few? Try seven.

 

[Matt]

No. You have to include benefits into your calculation. It's true that you can use the same logic to dismiss vaccines. But there's a crucial difference: vaccines give us immense, tangible, measurable benefits.

Drinking a diet coke in place of water gives no benefits.

It gives the benefit of allowing someone to consume something sweet without the negative effects of sugar. This line of thinking you are employing where it's either only water or diet soda does not really hold up.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

No. You have to include benefits into your calculation. It's true that you can use the same logic to dismiss vaccines. But there's a crucial difference: vaccines give us immense, tangible, measurable benefits.

Drinking a diet coke in place of water gives no benefit.

The benefit is the huge amounts of sugar they aren't consuming. The benefit is that diabetics can drink it.


You're doing some bizzare mental gymnastics just to say that aspartame is bad.

 

[The Dutch Slayer]

This and it won't change my mind and I will still tell people to drink more water than soda. Sodas in general are not healthy. Except for diet sodas are not healthy for your teeth so please use a drinking straw.

But drink in moderation (which many American people are unable to - glad you finally got size limits...) and it is fine.

That is why I only drink water, and sometimes some juice, self made without anything added.

If the soda industry going belly up from "mis-information", I'm not going to feel too bad about it. They have caused almost irreparable damage from real sugar addiction and science denying on that front.
They don't care about REAL science.

But they will adapt and survive. They will keep you hooked.

Sadly I feel the same way

See that's the thing, there is nothing wrong with not wanting to drink them for whatever reason, or even for finding the idea of calorie free sweetness somehow disturbing. Those are opinions.

But saying "it's bad for you" isn't an opinion, it's presenting your beliefs as a fact without any scientific or rational basis.

And don't be sorry, this is a perfectly valid path for this discussion to go down.

Thanks I appropriate you insights and openness towards discussing this.
I'll stop saying "that soda in general" is bad for you as a fact but in the future form it as my opinion then .

 

[SMattera]

A few? Try seven.

Aspartame was first synthesized 51 years ago, actually, and was only approved for use in food 35 years ago.

That is less than the average lifespan. No time whatsoever.

 

[The Lamp]

If the soda industry going belly up from "mis-information", I'm not going to feel too bad about it. They have caused almost irreparable damage from real sugar addiction and science denying on that front.
They don't care about REAL science.

But they will adapt and survive. They will keep you hooked.

It really depends on the company. Some food companies are proactively ethical. Some aren't. They all have to follow the FDA though, a very strict and conservative (when it comes to speed of new information implementation) organization (like the Supreme Court).

The food companies that do not adapt to the growing health trends right now will crumble as other food companies adapt. Coca-Cola is making investors nervous because the majority of their product portfolio is sodas, something that has tanked in sales as people move on to what they perceive (this is the key phrase) are healthier alternatives. This is why they recently bought a milk company.

They all hire from the same pool of scientists, however. The same PhD in chemistry or food science or nutrition or MD that works at Kraft or Mondelez or Coca-Cola R&D is the same professional that could be employed at the FDA or CDC. They all care about "real science" because real science affects their real products. It's just, as I said, some companies are ethical, and others less so, with their scientific resources. Regardless, they all have to follow the FDA, so what you should target is following and making sure the FDA is appropriately adapting to scientific consensus, and the food companies will follow suit.

 

[slit]

Aspartame was first synthesized 51 years ago, actually, and was only approved for use in food 35 years ago.

That is less than the average lifespan. No time whatsoever.

You said artificial sweeteners. You made no specific mention to which one.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Aspartame was first synthesized 51 years ago, actually, and was only approved for use in food 35 years ago.

That is less than the average lifespan. No time whatsoever.

And yet it's been studied extensively with no harmful effects other than in pku.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/2...rtificial-sweeteners-over-sugar.html?referer=

 

[hammysaurusrex]

And yet it's been studied extensively with no harmful effects other than in pku.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/2...rtificial-sweeteners-over-sugar.html?referer=

No, no, no - you don't understand. We can't use the science we have now. We have to make policy decisions based on hypothetical future science that may or may not exist.

 

[slit]

No, no, no - you don't understand. We can't use the science we have now. We have to make policy decisions based on hypothetical future science that may or may not exist.

.....or pseudoscience and gut feelings!

 

[hammysaurusrex]

.....or pseudoscience and gut feelings!

I personally can't even understand why we're even having this conversation - we all know the only chemicals that are bad are the ones that are really hard to pronounce, but aspartame is pretty easy to say therefore it must be safe, right?

Quod erat demonstrandum

 

[Wafflecakes]

I personally can't even understand why we're even having this conversation - we all know the only chemicals that are bad are the ones that are really hard to pronounce, but aspartame is pretty easy to say therefore it must be safe, right?

Quod erat demonstrandum

Nice straw man.

Lots of chemicals that cannot be pronounced are not bad for you.

That is what science is for. You should try it some time.

 

[Pedrito]

The thing I don't get in these threads is how it's so "one or the other". "There's no benefit of drinking diet soda over water so drink water!" Do you follow the same reasoning for everything you do, drink and eat?

"There's no health benefit of watching tv over taking a walk"
"There's no benefit of eating spaghetti over eating fish with a mountain of vegetables"

It's not always about achieving optimal nutrition. Some of us like a little variety. That means drinking water and drinking diet soda or other stuff once a while. And when we do so, going for the suger-free version is certainly better.

disclaimer: I'm not talking about people who chug that thing all day long.

 

[V_Arnold]

Not at all. You're trying to shift the burden of proof here.

I'm not making any claims. You are. It is thus incumbent upon you to prove that aspartame is healthy. I do not need to prove that it is unhealthy.

You can say that we've studied it for decades, and run all these studies, and none of them show any evidence of harm. I would retort that it's only been around for a few decades -- a mere moment in the history of the human species.

I will conceded that, more likely than not, aspartame causes no harm. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't cause harm. Nutrition is a complex subject that we frankly don't understand very well.

You have got to be kidding me. So NO actual material on earth can be safe to consume by your logic, since you cannot prove that any future technology will not uncover some harm. Right? Right.

Also, having caloric content is not a benefit, it is just a fact. Plenty of foods have plenty of calories as "a benefit", but that does not stop them from being unhealthy choices to regular consumption. And once again: us not understanding nutrition well has NOTHING to do with a 0 nutritional value sugar-replacement. Also, argument for "only for a mere few decades" is ridiciulous at best, since those few decades also happen to be the ones with the highest life expectency rates and best medical/scientific equipment and technology ever. So...

 

[...Scatter...]

Basically, as i have heard it. It may not have sugar. But your body still reacts as if it IS sugar. So it isn't that much better. It doesn't have the calories, but your body almost still thinks it does, and you still gain weight

LOL at this science

 

[SMattera]

You have got to be kidding me. So NO actual material on earth can be safe to consume by your logic, since you cannot prove that any future technology will not uncover some harm. Right? Right.

Also, having caloric content is not a benefit, it is just a fact. Plenty of foods have plenty of calories as "a benefit", but that does not stop them from being unhealthy choices to regular consumption. And once again: us not understanding nutrition well has NOTHING to do with a 0 nutritional value sugar-replacement. Also, argument for "only for a mere few decades" is ridiciulous at best, ince that few decades also happen to be the ones with the highest life expectency rates and best medical/scientific equipment and technology ever. So...

Again. Benefit-cost analysis. What benefits can be derived from drinking artificial sugar water over regular water? And are you seriously implying that artificial sweetners have caused the upsurge life expectancy? That's an interesting idea.

A better avenue for exploration is: why exactly do people crave sugary drinks? For 99% of human history, we did just fine without them.

 

[ramparter]

Colon is placed right after last word and not before next word.

Coca Cola :ZERO

wrong X

Coca Cola: ZERO

right!

edit: I don't know the answer but I don't think it's that bad, many people drink it.

 

[hammysaurusrex]

The thing I don't get in these threads is how it's so "one or the other". "There's no benefit of drinking diet soda over water so drink water!" Do you follow the same reasoning for everything you do, drink and eat?

"There's no health benefit of watching tv over taking a walk"
"There's no benefit of eating spaghetti over eating fish with a mountain of vegetables"

It's not always about achieving optimal nutrition. Some of us like a little variety. That means drinking water and drinking diet soda or other stuff once a while.

disclaimer: I'm not talking about people who chug that thing all day long.

I've always wondered if the people who wander into every discussion about calorie-free soda to explain how stupid everyone is for not just drinking water do the same thing with threads where people are discussing their alcohol preferences.

 

[Osahi]

LOL at this science

Well, if your body reacts like it is sugar, it releases insuline, which makes your blood sugar drop, which makes you hungry, which makes you eat something, which MIGHT make you fat.

That is the reasoning behind it. I don't know if it is true. What is true is that there is no proof whatsoever aspartame is cancer inducing.

Anyway, I used to drink this stuff a lot (I'm type 1 diabetic) when I still lived with my parents. Since I live with my girlfriend I just stopped buying softdrinks and drink almost only tap water. Can't say I feel healthier since drinking water first and foremoest or something.

 

[RumblingRosco]

I've always wondered if the people who wander into every discussion about calorie-free soda to explain how stupid everyone is for not just drinking water do the same thing with threads where people are discussing their alcohol preferences.

If someone made a thread asking how healthy alcohol is, then yeah, I'd bet they'd do a similar thing.

 

[hammysaurusrex]

If someone made a thread asking how healthy alcohol is, then yeah, I'd bet they'd do a similar thing.

Let's not be coy - any topic on diet soda on GAF follows this extreme same trajectory, regardless of how the original question is phrased.

 

[Matt]

Well, if your body reacts like it is sugar, it releases insuline, which makes your blood sugar drop, which makes you hungry, which makes you eat something, which MIGHT make you fat.

This is being REALLY charitable to that statment.

 

[BronsonLee]

Let's not be coy - any topic on diet soda on GAF follows this extreme same trajectory, regardless of how the original question is phrased.

Yeah this thread is basically a shot for shot remake about the last one

OP asks question
General consensus about diet soda being bad
Diet soda advocates/Aspartame lobbyists? chime in
Everybody fights
I drink hot cooca

 

[Wafflecakes]

Again. Benefit-cost analysis. What benefits can be derived from drinking artificial sugar water over regular water? And are you seriously implying that artificial sweetners have caused the upsurge life expectancy? That's an interesting idea.

A better avenue for exploration is: why exactly do people crave sugary drinks? For 99% of human history, we did just fine without them.

Enjoyment.

Considering that enjoyment is a real benefit, and most of the "drawbacks" are make believe... I think I will continue.

Yeah this thread is basically a shot for shot remake about the last one

OP asks question
General consensus about diet soda being bad
Diet soda advocates/Aspartame lobbyists? chime in
Everybody fights
I drink hot cooca

Only in your imagination.

 

[hammysaurusrex]

Well, if your body reacts like it is sugar, it releases insuline, which makes your blood sugar drop, which makes you hungry, which makes you eat something, which MIGHT make you fat.

You could follow this line of reasoning - or you could just skip all those intermediate steps and study the outcome directly: Does diet soda consumption cause weight gain? The research tends to show it's either weight neutral or is associated with very modest weight loss.

 

[Greddleok]

Enjoyment.

Considering that enjoyment is a real benefit, and most of the "drawbacks" are make believe... I think I will continue.



Only in your imagination.

I'd also argue that it prevents me from craving sugary food. When I have a sweetened drink, I don't then buy a bag of cookies to go with it.

Well, if your body reacts like it is sugar, it releases insuline, which makes your blood sugar drop, which makes you hungry, which makes you eat something, which MIGHT make you fat.

The data says that's false. People do not over eat when they consume artificial sweeteners.

 

[Magwik]

Let's not be coy - any topic on diet soda on GAF follows this extreme same trajectory, regardless of how the original question is phrased.

I don't get it. Do some people just want to feel better or superior due to them only drinking water?

 

[BronsonLee]

Only in your imagination.

Oh my fucking god

I don't get it. Do some people just want to feel better or superior due to them only drinking water?

I mean, I am better than everyone because I'm 100% water

 

[hammysaurusrex]

I drink hot cooca

Gasp! But don't you know water is better for you!?

 

[Osahi]

You could follow this line of reasoning - or you could just skip all those intermediate steps and study the outcome directly: Does diet soda consumption cause weight gain? The research tends to show it's either weight neutral or is associated with very modest weight loss.

Good to know. I never really followed up on research about it. I had just got explained the reasoning to me once, but never took it at face value.

 

[Gutek]

I can't believe people are using the "chemicals are bad for you" line. You are made out of chemicals. Everything is.

 

[oti]

Gasp! But don't you know water is better for you!?

I heard that milk literally kills you.


Joking aside, I think I've read somewhere that drinking milk after a certain age is pretty weird.

 

[The Lamp]

Oh my fucking god



I mean, I am better than everyone because I'm 100% water

That's nice. Unless you eat a 100% nutritionally balanced diet every time every day, your arrogance for being better than others for only drinking water is faulty, hypocritical and unimpressive. If you want to be a nutritional paradigm, drink soylent for the rest of your life and call it a day. Then at least I could respect that arrogance for being consistent.

Sometimes it's nice to eat something you like regardless of its nutritional completeness.

Also, most hot cocoa is riddled with sugar so it's significantly worse for you than any diet soda.

 

[Tesseract]

i believe in a few cokes / day, among the fructose or kane or occasional lactulose variety. gives me everyday power level kicks to the bubble guts, bloods, musclos, nerveos, synovial and cereboro spunil floods. as with alcohol to depress its kicksens, and something dark chocolatey before beruswooshing my teeth for sleeps

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I heard that milk literally kills you.


Joking aside, I think I've read somewhere that drinking milk after a certain age is pretty weird.

You sound like my parents.

 

[Mabufu]

I can't believe people are using the "chemicals are bad for you" line. You are made out of chemicals. Everything is.

This is a great truth.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

I was diagnosed type 1 diabetic ( thanks genetic disorder ) in March of last year and switched from sugar soda to diet, I also made a huge change to my eating habits as well but I've lost close to 70 pounds with a diet soda a day. My blood work has all improved and I'm healthier then ever. Should you drink diet soda all day every day? No but one can a day isn't going to harm you.

And don't give me that chemical shit excuse, power bars, Gatorade, protein shakes all have weird shit in it.

The worst part of all is the fat asses at work that tell me "diet soda?? That shit is going to kill you and give you cancer" as they drink there HFCS sodas"

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I can't believe people are using the "chemicals are bad for you" line. You are made out of chemicals. Everything is.

Being made out of chemicals doesn't mean putting other chemicals made by a company that doesnt give a shit about you through your kidneys isn't the same. Or magically makes things ok.

With that said I doubt you're gonna die from a coke zero a day or every other day.

If it's all someone is drinking though....yea...I'd have concerns. But it's your body. Enjoy!

 

[BronsonLee]

Gasp! But don't you know water is better for you!?

You know what's better for me?

HOT water with CHOCOLATE powder in it

That's nice. Unless you eat a 100% nutritionally balanced diet every time every day, your arrogance for being better than others for only drinking water is faulty, hypocritical and unimpressive. If you want to be a nutritional paradigm, drink soylent for the rest of your life and call it a day. Then at least I could respect that arrogance for being consistent.

Sometimes it's nice to eat something you like regardless of its nutritional completeness.

Also, most hot cocoa is riddled with sugar so it's significantly worse for you than any diet soda.

Are you daft, I am clearly not being serious

I should make you drink soylent for a week for your transgressions!