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[Audioboxer]

Yeah, that makes sense, considering that VR is in the beginning stages and Sony wants to grab as many adopters now before PS5, but man, having 2 skus again, shite..

I doubt if VR had received such a push from Sony this would be happening. Especially if MS genuinely have no plans to do their own 1.5 version (or didn't till Sony have now forced their hand). I genuinely believe it's a move spearheaded to try and keep PSVR relevant till PS5. If we're going to see any Neo exclusives, I bet it will end up some VR experience ported from PC.

Could well be wrong, but it's my 2 cents.

I mean if they pull it off and the market buys in, VR or no VR, it might setup the PS5 to try it again 3~4 years in.

 

[meanspartan]

I disagree fully. These systems launched weak and it shows. While some games do look good shortcuts are being made to compensate. I think we need more power right now.

That's fine, but you are a clear minority in my opinion.

If you need to be on the cutting edge, go PC.

 

[kinggroin]

If shoddy games are already coming out before the PS4K is even a thing, then why does its existence suddenly change the outlook. As the gap of technology between the base PS4 and PC grow, shouldn't it just continue to keep getting worse as more sacrifices would need to be made?

Exactly.

Folks are acting like the PS4K is the hardware that knocks the PS4 from its spot on the performance hierarchy.

Multiplatform developers have had every opportunity to fuck PS4 users over. It won't change now that PS4K is coming.

 

[Dynomutt]

Good, hopefully less devs support this nonsense. Devs already have a hard time optimizing for PS4 and Xone, now were going to throw a third console into the mix? Absolutely ridiculous. This will result in less games and/or lower quality games due to the increased dev time required by this.

So what does that make the NX? Isn't it an additional console as well? I know the fury is speaking just wanted to clarify that another console will be added to the mix regardless.

 

[generic_username]

I'm going to buy the PS4K either way because I'm a mug, have enough money and want the best console going, but I'm still annoyed about it. The reason I console game is because of the value proposition and simplicity of it all. I like the fact that at launch I can buy a highly subsidised piece of hardware, that will last me an entire generation, and be the sole development focus on a closed platform basis the entire time. With subscription and online fees, more games releases, higher costs and everything else, this suits me perfectly, as it balances out the costs on everything else. The PS4K changes that.

The bolded will remain true inspite of the 4K. Also there was never sole development focus on a closed platform as PC and Xbox One are also the focus for a majority of multiplats. What you are left with to complain is probably exclusives but that is about it ( This is also assuming that PS4K will somehow prevent the maximum juice being squeezed out of the PS4 )

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

The New 3DS has exclusive games, and cross-compatible games that run like dogshit on the old version (Hyrule Warriors). Bad analogy.

I like how your only example is hyrule warriors. Let's not forget that we already know there won't be PS4K Exclusive games.

It's actually a pretty good analogy. Hyrule Warriors barely runs on n3DS. The game was never suited for 3DS in the first place. So ignoring that, it's actually the perfect analogy.

 

[spwolf]

So what does that make the NX? Isn't it an additional console as well? I know the fury is speaking just wanted to clarify that another console will be added to the mix regardless.

Yep.... XB1 is already a problem (forced parity) and NX will be extra console for real, unlike Neo.

 

[Toki767]

So what does that make the NX? Isn't it an additional console as well? I know the fury is speaking just wanted to clarify that another console will be added to the mix regardless.

Like devs are ever really going to support the NX.

 

[Orniletter]

Arrogant Sony is back.

Oh no, this is not arrogant Sony from yesteryear.

This is modern, customer milking Sony that is far better at playing PR and their fanbase.

For the players indeed.

 

[Hawk269]

Well.. Why would they be? I can't imagine developers being enthused at more time/planning/money being required going forward on all PS4 games because of this. Sounds like they cannot opt out if they want to release PS4 games.

Thats some bullshit there.

Maybe some devs will look forward to it. Maybe some want the good graphics but also good frame rate and the PS4 would be 900p/30 while Neo would be 1080p/60 which they wanted to achieve but couldn't due to the ps4 specs.

Seems like many are taking the negative side of things without considering some of the positives.

 

[The God]

This is going to be a trainwreck lmao

 

[orochi91]

Like can we be realistic and stop with the confirmation bias for a second? Am I the only one who finds it hard to believe that Sony would suddenly stop caring about developers opinions after 2 years of the ps4 selling well?

I can't take Colin completely seriously when it comes to PS4K.

Listen to their recent video that went up discussing NEO; he is vehemently against the iterative approach and has been since news first started leaking a while ago.

Dude's vocal as fuck though, so I commend him for his passion; he lists some valid (if subjective) reasons against iterative consoles.

As such, he's naturally gonna put emphasis on devs that aren't thrilled about Neo, as opposed to devs who are excited for it; confirmation bias at its worse, unfortunately.

 

[Brazil]

I really hope developers shit on the concept and leave these new hardwares to rot at Gamestop.

 

[Mezoly]

I can't take Colin completely seriously when it comes to PS4K.

Listen to their recent video that went up discussing NEO; he is vehemently against the iterative approach and has been since news first started leaking a while ago.

Dude's vocal as fuck though, so I commend him for his passion; he lists some valid (if subjective) reasons against iterative consoles.

As such, he's naturally gonna put emphasis on devs that aren't thrilled about Neo, as opposed to devs who are excited for it; confirmation bias at its worse, unfortunately.

Shinobi said devs told him the same thing.

 

[Wishmaster92]

That's fine, but you are a clear minority in my opinion.

If you need to be on the cutting edge, go PC.

But then no ps4 exclusives like uncharted 4 that imo has better visuals than any pc game? (exception being star citizen)

 

[DrROBschiz]

I can't take Colin completely seriously when it comes to PS4K.

Listen to their recent video that went up discussing NEO; he is vehemently against the iterative approach and has been since news first started leaking a while ago.

Dude's vocal as fuck though, so I commend him for his passion; he lists some valid (if subjective) reasons against iterative consoles.

As such, he's naturally gonna put emphasis on devs that aren't thrilled about Neo, as opposed to devs who are excited for it; confirmation bias at its worse, unfortunately.

Yeah but he can afford to be that way given his current status

As long as we recognize his tastes as such it doesnt bother me and it informs me of his character and opinion

 

[MogCakes]

The bolded will remain true inspite of the 4K.

Judging by the very mixed reception not only GAF but all over gaming related sites, many people disagree with that.

 

[Experien]

Devs hate his and then all flock back to Nintendo!!!

 

[CosmicQueso]

Devs hate his and then all flock back to Nintendo!!!

And with that... ALL sense of remaining reality, what little there was, leaves. Never to be seen again!

 

[Blobbers]

I don't get the argument that devs wont screw over a 50 million userbase.

Here's the fear: You have the casuals, which make up the majority of the userbase. Then you have us hardcore gamers. The casuals don't really care about or notice the lower framerate, resolution or when shortcuts and compromises are made that affect the visual fidelity of a game. Devs know this. The existence of the PS4 NEO will create a new playing field, one that's potentially harder on the devs, and so devs will start making sacrifices they know wont bother the majority. This leaves us hardcore gamers who get shafted, if just a little bit, but potentially more and more as the gen progresses.

So the fear is that indeed on the surface "devs wont screw us over", because the big chunk of people wont complain so it will seem fine. But in truth, things could've been better if the PS4 NEO didn't exist.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

Shinobi said devs told him the same thing.

We also have devs here who posted and said they were basically fine with it.

What now?

 

[generic_username]

Judging by the very mixed reception not only GAF but all over gaming related sites, many people disagree with that.

And there is not one single good reason why people should disagree apart from wahhh I dont have the best version of the game. Here is the thing - You never did. PC version was always superior 99% of the time.

Devs hate his and then all flock back to Nintendo!!!

Devs hate this and flock back to a platform manufacturer that just abandoned their home console owners in such a short time?

 

[CosmicQueso]

We also have devs here who posted and said they were basically fine with it.

What now?

Despair and shouting for 2 more months. At least.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I don't get the argument that devs wont screw over a 50 million userbase.

Here's the fear: You have the casuals, which make up the majority of the userbase. Then you have us hardcore gamers. The casuals don't really care about or notice the lower framerate, resolution or when shortcuts and compromises are made that affect the visual fidelity of a game. Devs know this. The existence of the PS4 NEO will create a new playing field, one that's potentially harder on the devs, and so devs will start making sacrifices they know wont bother the majority. This leaves us hardcore gamers who get shafted, if just a little bit, but potentially more and more as the gen progresses.

So the fear is that indeed on the surface "devs wont screw us over", because the big chunk of people wont complain so it will seem fine. But in truth, things could've been better if the PS4 NEO didn't exist.

The only problem with what you're saying is that we already have shortcuts and compromises as is. The PS4K wouldn't be creating that stuff. It is just a natural part of developing games on consoles.

 

[Papacheeks]

If shoddy games are already coming out before the PS4K is even a thing, then why does its existence suddenly change the outlook. As the gap of technology between the base PS4 and PC grow, shouldn't it just continue to keep getting worse as more sacrifices would need to be made?

You say technology is growing for pc which it is, but that has not translated into games that can not be put on consoles, or games that can't be developed on consoles that run on PC?

Please show me games on PC that have the presentation, animation that exclusive games on console have?(maybe Overwatch, but it's also coming to console).

I'v yet to see games in the vein of uncharted, infamous, horizon, TLG, sunset overdrive, ect be developed by a PC developer or something similar.

Shotty game engines/code and inefficiency is what kills this industry. Always has, please show me in the history of video games where having more power benefited console development for the long run? Because N64 expansion packs only band-aid the issues that console had, and not many games used it. ANd in the end the weaker console had more games, and sold more.

Same goes for PS2/XBOX era, and for PS3/XBOX/Wii u era. Wii U was basically better equipped than Xbox360, and PS3, yet people still bought games in droves on PS3, xbox despite maybe better versions of certain third party being on that system.

Issues are with developers and their engines, not the consoles. If ps3,360 were still getting games like GTA V at the end of their cycles there's no excuse in less than 3 years to have a mid gen refresh.

Its on the publisher's and developers to get their shit together. Stop blaming the hardware. If your game ran like shit on everything, it's not the hardware.

 

[Mezoly]

We also have devs here who posted and said they were basically fine with it.

What now?

Both could be true. Some people will be fine with extra work others won't. The fact is its extra work.

 

[Starfish Hero]

We also have devs here who posted and said they were basically fine with it.

What now?

Well the thread isn't titled "every dev hates the Neo"

 

[Audioboxer]

I can't take Colin completely seriously when it comes to PS4K.

Listen to their recent video that went up discussing NEO; he is vehemently against the iterative approach and has been since news first started leaking a while ago.

Dude's vocal as fuck though, so I commend him for his passion; he lists some valid (if subjective) reasons against iterative consoles.

As such, he's naturally gonna put emphasis on devs that aren't thrilled about Neo, as opposed to devs who are excited for it; confirmation bias at its worse, unfortunately.

As someone clearly optimistic about what this may well be I will say Colin's personal opinion is irrelevant if he is genuine about what his sources say. He could love it and if reported accurately his sources still have the same message. I genuinely believe whoever he has spoken to, but without further detail we don't know who it is, what devs, or really how many "most developers" actually equates to. "Most" may well be where Colin goes into the realm of some sort of exaggeration. Or most may simply be most of the devs he can actually reach out to (which could be any undefined number. 5, 10, 20, 3) Those are the jigsaw pieces though, not Colin's personal stance.

 

[Frosta]

Seems like a bad idea.

 

[DrROBschiz]

We also have devs here who posted and said they were basically fine with it.

What now?

I believe the issue is divisive as opposed to being this one sided rejection that Colin seems to believe

I mean even he acknowledged to Greg that reactions are mixed despite that Twitter post

Its safe to safe we are likely seeing a near even split on iterative consoles

At least thats how Gaf appears to be

 

[Bolivar687]

I don't get the argument that devs wont screw over a 50 million userbase.

Here's the fear: You have the casuals, which make up the majority of the userbase. Then you have us hardcore gamers. The casuals don't really care about or notice the lower framerate, resolution or when shortcuts and compromises are made that affect the visual fidelity of a game. Devs know this. The existence of the PS4 NEO will create a new playing field, one that's potentially harder on the devs, and so devs will start making sacrifices they know wont bother the majority. This leaves us hardcore gamers who get shafted, if just a little bit, but potentially more and more as the gen progresses.

So the fear is that indeed on the surface "devs wont screw us over", because the big chunk of people wont complain so it will seem fine. But in truth, things could've been better if the PS4 NEO didn't exist.

I agree. This generation proves the majority AAA console sales come from the newest hardware. Devs did not care in the slightest about PS360's 160 million install base when making Black Ops 3, Shadow of Mordor, etc.

 

[Movalpolos]

Well the thread isn't titled "every dev hates the Neo"

No but the tweet says "most devs". Which is making me call into question the validity of Colin's claim and his source.

 

[Plinko]

This is going to be a trainwreck lmao

Highly doubtful. The niche technophiles will buy enough of them to make it ok. I don't see it being a raging success, either.

I think my favorite part of this thread are the people saying, "But there are devs on here saying it's ok so Colin is wrong!" That's not really how things work. My guess is you have devs on both sides of the aisle here.

 

[kinggroin]

I don't get the argument that devs wont screw over a 50 million userbase.

Here's the fear: You have the casuals, which make up the majority of the userbase. Then you have us hardcore gamers. The casuals don't really care about or notice the lower framerate, resolution or when shortcuts and compromises are made that affect the visual fidelity of a game. Devs know this. The existence of the PS4 NEO will create a new playing field, one that's potentially harder on the devs, and so devs will start making sacrifices they know wont bother the majority. This leaves us hardcore gamers who get shafted, if just a little bit, but potentially more and more as the gen progresses.

So the fear is that indeed on the surface "devs wont screw us over", because the big chunk of people wont complain so it will seem fine. But in truth, things could've been better if the PS4 NEO didn't exist.

PC exists. You currently miss out on visual features and some gameplay ones.

Or do you mean, they will now focus on the higher end (which would be breaking the trend, no?) To the detriment of the lower end, bigger install base?

 

[foolishoptimist]

So, these complaining devs are strictly console devs right?
No way is this even remotely comparable to adding another platform(Xbox,NX).

The architecture and APIs will be the same. It's just going to be like different graphics settings in Pc games.

 

[Ranger X]

Expected.

The PS4K seems like a system made for nobody. Bad for consumers, bad for developers.

There. Ridiculous since day one.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Both could be true. Some people will be fine with extra work others won't. The fact is its extra work.

Is it really "extra work" though?

We dont know key development details but the leak does tell us that the core components are mostly the same or iterative upgrades of the same exact product line

 

[blankempathy]

Oh no, this is not arrogant Sony from yesteryear.

This is modern, customer milking Sony that is far better at playing PR and their fanbase.

For the players indeed.

Its a brilliant move on their part too. Keep devs more busy working on the ps4 versions because thats where most of the customers are and its inevitable that the other less popular platforms will suffer because they don't have the time or manpower to keep up. Of course the alternative is to outsource the ports to other companies but those aren't always perfect either. Sony only has to worry about any backlash that may occur in the long run.

 

[Hawk269]

That's fine, but you are a clear minority in my opinion.

If you need to be on the cutting edge, go PC.

Already there with cutting edge PC. Still does not change that many people felt these machines launched weak when they came out. Both still and will continue to deliver great games but anyone into the tech side of things would agree that these systems were rather weak at launch

 

[Movalpolos]

Highly doubtful. The niche technophiles will buy enough of them to make it ok. I don't see it being a raging success, either.

Bingo.

Personally I have mixed feelings about the whole thing. I am the enthusiast type that will definitely get one, but I'll be shaking my head the whole time at the notion this is actually happening.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

No but the tweet says "most devs". Which is making me call into question the validity of Colin's claim and his source.

I sincerely doubt he's spoken to 'most' devs, so yeah, while I think there are no doubt developers who aren't happy with it, the 'most' part seems disingenuous and agenda driven.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Is there an estimated release timeline? I'll be pissed if they choose to release this along side PSVR because there's no way I'm going to be dropping 1 grand on current gen shit.

 

[Bolivar687]

PC exists. You currently miss out on visual features and some gameplay ones.

Or do you mean, they will now focus on the higher end (which would be breaking the trend, no?) To the detriment of the lower end, bigger install base?

They focus on the version that sells the most copies. Thats never been PC and if cross-gen is any indicator, it will no longer be PS4.

Console gamers dont miss out on any PC gameplay features.

 

[Starfish Hero]

No but the tweet says "most devs". Which is making me call into question the validity of Colin's claim and his source.

I don't see why that's so hard to believe. The idea behind the PS4.5 has been controversial from the beginning.

 

[Melchiah]

Some of us have a rational outlook and see the bigger impact this will have on the development side,which roles down hill to consumers.
Games that had shotty work like ac:unity, just cause 3, fallout 4, will continue and possibly plague exclusives.
Or worse as time goes on third party company's like with Titanfall for 360 will outsource to PS4 and primarily develop for PS4K.

Which would be shitty for PS4 owners. Also imagine if all the PSVR demo's and games we've seen were actually running spec wise on PS4K not PS4. And you bought PSVR get it home hook it up pop your copy of RIGS in and it looks and runs like shit compared to what we've been shown.
Like a watchdogs scenario all over again. These are legitimate things that have happened currently in this gen, have happened in smaller scale to N3DS.

People, Developers have a right to be put off by this.
And if more developers start popping up being confused by this which was indicated by earlier Patrick Kleptick reports and now Conlin Morarity, it doesn't paint a positive progressive environment for great software going forward.

If developers refuse to use it, and Sony doesn't try to strong arm them into it, then fine it will be what it should have been and be for people who have 4k tv's. But games will play the same.

The games you mentioned run as they do, and I suspect their kind will still exist in the future, even without the PS4K being a factor. If the hardware architecture is the same, I don't see how it would need two different development teams for PS4 and PS4K. Let alone how it's supposed to affect the 1st party titles negatively.

As for VR...
http://www.roadtovr.com/gdc-2016-sony-playstation-vr-development-and-innovations-live-blog-11am-pst/

...so I don't see how the games would run like shit on the PS4. Naturally some visual sacrifices have to be made to reach the goal, but that was already known before the PS4K came along.

 

[LostDonkey]

But then no ps4 exclusives like uncharted 4 that imo has better visuals than any pc game? (exception being star citizen)

I know you said Imo, but lol wut?

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

I sincerely doubt he's spoken to 'most' devs, so yeah, while I think there are no doubt developers who aren't happy with it, the 'most' part seems disingenuous and agenda driven.

The tweet doesn't even claim that anyway, it says his source which could be anyone.

 

[Gurish]

Damn it's been such a crazy PS4K day, non stop news and discussions on this, I feel like we can switch Neogaf's banner to NEO

 

[kinggroin]

Its a brilliant move on their part too. Keep devs more busy working on the ps4 versions because thats where most of the customers are and its inevitable that the other less popular platforms will suffer because they don't have the time or manpower to keep up. Of course the alternative is to outsource the ports to other companies but those aren't always perfect either. Sony only has to worry about any backlash that may occur in the long run.

Or, make game "A" FOR the OG PS4 as always. Cause, like, 40 million people own it.

Then go easy on themselves with regards to development and allow some minor visual changes on the new model (AA, stable framerate, PC version textures).

Again, the "extra work for devs means less games for everyone" fear, seems overblown.

Just like buying a PS4K, developing around it, is optional.

 

[NullPointer]

Despair and shouting for 2 more months. At least.

So should we expect the details at e3?

The PS4K thread that spoke of a launch first quarter 2017 seemed to poo-poo the idea of hearing anything official of substance until close to that date. The risk being that existing PS4 console sales would suffer once potential buyers knew that a more powerful version was right around the corner.

PC exists. You currently miss out on visual features and some gameplay ones.

This is really only a factor for PC gamers and PC/Console gamers.

If you're a PS4-only player, PC is entirely irrelevant here whereas a new PS4 is entirely relevant as this is about the quality of PS4 games played on PS4s.