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[Green Ninja]

Twist: the Watchmen theme will be more relevant than ever as we enter nuclear war with North Korea this November. Doomsday Clock never releases, sadly.

Watchmen was relevant in a time when America was dominated by Republicans and a 70 something year old man won the White House in big part because of his celebrity status. Also tensions between the United States and other countries were at an all time high.

It's a different world now and the Watchmen characters (much like Star Wars, Blade Runner, and Mad Max) are outdated and no longer relevant.

 

[Zombine]

Watchmen was relevant in a time when America was dominated by Republicans and a 70 something year old man won the White House in big part because of his celebrity status. Also tensions between the United States and other countries were at an all time high.

It's a different world now and the Watchmen characters (much like Star Wars, Blade Runner, and Mad Max) are outdated and no longer relevant.

Favorite new member.

 

[Aizo]

Is Gary Frank that Godzilla dude? I met him in Tokyo last year. Cool guy. I think he draws everything besides people incredibly well. I have a feeling this is not the guy I'm thinking of.

Edit: figured that didn't make sense haha. That's Matt Frank.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Watchmen was relevant in a time when America was dominated by Republicans and a 70 something year old man won the White House in big part because of his celebrity status. Also tensions between the United States and other countries were at an all time high.

It's a different world now and the Watchmen characters (much like Star Wars, Blade Runner, and Mad Max) are outdated and no longer relevant.

10/10

Is Gary Frank that Godzilla dude? I met him in Tokyo last year. Cool guy. I think he draws everything besides people incredibly well. I have a feeling this is not the guy I'm thinking of.

Edit: figured that didn't make sense haha. That's Matt Frank.

One of the more recent projects he's worked on is Batman: Earth One. That was with Johns as well.

 

[Aizo]

10/10



One of the more recent projects he's worked on is Batman: Earth One. That was with Johns as well.

Was his art quite good in that?

 

[caliph95]

Watchmen was relevant in a time when America was dominated by Republicans and a 70 something year old man won the White House in big part because of his celebrity status. Also tensions between the United States and other countries were at an all time high.

It's a different world now and the Watchmen characters (much like Star Wars, Blade Runner, and Mad Max) are outdated and no longer relevant.

iseewhatyoudidthere.gif

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Was his art quite good in that?

Yeah, I liked it. It was the first book of his I'd read. Come to think of it, I still haven't read Vol 2. I wasn't all that enthusiastic about another Batman origin story and ended up waiting for a sale, but it surprised me.

 

[RepairmanJack]

That Doomsday Clock interview seems odd. Fuck it, just throw out all semblance of subtlety just out right say Manhattan for all this shit. lol

Everyone expected it sure, but they've done a lot of teasing and gone a long way to not specifically say it.

 

[Zombine]

More amazing arcs like DC is doing versus line wide events like Marvel is doing. One is a recipe for creative success, the other is like beating a bottle of glue and calling it a dead horse.

 

[Aizo]

I love everything Brubaker I have read, and I read 7 issues of Kill or be Killed yesterday. I've never read Criminal, though... so I just bought the whole series. Woooooo. As if I didn't have enough to read already.

Yeah, I liked it. It was the first book of his I'd read. Come to think of it, I still haven't read Vol 2. I wasn't all that enthusiastic about another Batman origin story and ended up waiting for a sale, but it surprised me.

I'm intrigued.

 

[whatsinaname]

Someone said rebirth sucks. lol.


I don't think the people in that thread really read the recent flash crossover, or anything else for that matter.

DC is handling the watchmen story line amazingly well. Plus Geoff is at helm.

It's the same people generalizing the entire medium when given the chance.

It would be nice if we weren't so dismissive of people's opinions. "lol you just haven't read the comics" comes across as incredibly condescending.

If you had asked me what I thought of Rebirth after the first ten series I read, I would have been leaning towards the "Rebirth Sucks" camp. Of the "big" Rebirth books, I've liked about three and those are a 7/10 at best.

 

[Messi]

It would be nice if we weren't so dismissive of people's opinions. "lol you just haven't read the comics" comes across as incredibly condescending.

If you had asked me what I thought of Rebirth after the first ten series I read, I would have been leaning towards the "Rebirth Sucks" camp. Of the "big" Rebirth books, I've liked about three and those are a 7/10 at best.

You won't be allowed to have that opinion here... Watch...

 

[Donniewahlberg]

I love everything Brubaker I have read, and I read 7 issues of Kill or be Killed yesterday. I've never read Criminal, though... so I just bought the whole series. Woooooo. As if I didn't have enough to read already.

Criminal is fantastic! I've heard Sleeper is even better, which is the only thing out of their collab I haven't read, but I'd rank Criminal right at the top of all their other stuff, and by quite a wide margin too. That's nor to say I don't like the other stuff either, that's to emphasis just hoe good Criminal is haha. I think you'll be pleased!

 

[RepairmanJack]

It would be nice if we weren't so dismissive of people's opinions. "lol you just haven't read the comics" comes across as incredibly condescending.

If you had asked me what I thought of Rebirth after the first ten series I read, I would have been leaning towards the "Rebirth Sucks" camp. Of the "big" Rebirth books, I've liked about three and those are a 7/10 at best.

Yeah, I think seeing it as meh is pretty easy to see. Especially if someone is reading a lot of Image or something else. I'm pretty high on a few books and love DC overall, but still would only put like 3 books really high(not counting Young Animal which I love) and a lot of the rest has been pretty meh.

But I'm one of the crazy ones that loves King's Batman, but hates stuff like Nightwing. JL is the absolute worst of shit from DC right now.

I'd still wouldn't say rebirth sucks though because I'd take most of it over what Marvels doing right now, but that's just personal.

 

[LordOfLore]

Jordan White(editor of all Star Wars books, Deadpool books and Cosmic books)'s opinion on Superman. Did not expect him to be a fan of the "removed from humanity and more of a god" Superman that'll never marry Lois.

 

[Brianimaniac]

It would be nice if we weren't so dismissive of people's opinions. "lol you just haven't read the comics" comes across as incredibly condescending.

If you had asked me what I thought of Rebirth after the first ten series I read, I would have been leaning towards the "Rebirth Sucks" camp. Of the "big" Rebirth books, I've liked about three and those are a 7/10 at best.

The thing is, as least in the OT threads, a pretty significant amount of bitching about comics comes from people who don't read them. That's a crappy thing worthy of condescension, and if you and everyone here knows you're not who is not being referenced by that condescension, then you shouldn't feel attacked by those comments.

 

[arkon]

That Doomsday Clock interview seems odd. Fuck it, just throw out all semblance of subtlety just out right say Manhattan for all this shit. lol

Everyone expected it sure, but they've done a lot of teasing and gone a long way to not specifically say it.

So that's par for the course for Johns then.

 

[Brianimaniac]

Avengers Standoff was a fun story, It also shows that Spencer can write a fun story about Steve Rogers when he isn't a Hydra agent, so it gives me hope for the Cap book post-Secret Empire. assuming Spencer stays on the book.

It's fun and light for the most part, but then it was light a freight train to the chest in that sequence where we have that amazing two-page "life flashing before Steve's eyes" spread before Kobik saves him. I teared up reading that.

 

[Donniewahlberg]

but still would only put like 3 books really high(not counting Young Animal which I love) a

What are the three, out of interest?

 

[RepairmanJack]

What are the three, out of interest?

Actually after saying that I struggled to come up with the three between 4. Superman, Deathstroke, New Super-Man may be my top 3 with Batman just barely falling out of those 3.

If I was including Young Animal I'd really struggle with what to pick with Shade and Doom Patrol being included.

 

[LordOfLore]

Actually after saying that I struggled to come up with the three between 4. Superman, Deathstroke, New Super-Man may be my top 3 with Batman just barely falling out of those 3.

If I was including Young Animal I'd really struggle with what to pick with Shade and Doom Patrol being included.

Did you read the first Bug issue btw?

 

[Aizo]

Actually after saying that I struggled to come up with the three between 4. Superman, Deathstroke, New Super-Man may be my top 3 with Batman just barely falling out of those 3.

If I was including Young Animal I'd really struggle with what to pick with Shade and Doom Patrol being included.

So your favorite overall is...?

 

[RepairmanJack]

Did you read the first Bug issue btw?

Yeah, I liked the weird random feel of it, but was a little lost on where it was going once that villain showed up.

I always feel like I'm missing stuff in these kind of books because it harkens to older stuff. I can usually find something I like enough to keep me interested though.

So your favorite overall is...?

Doom Patrol has been absolutely amazing IMO, but it hasn't gone long enough to have a down curve yet so It may be unfair.

With Superman and Deathstroke's long stories all coming together they're both getting really close.

 

[TheFlow]

It would be nice if we weren't so dismissive of people's opinions. "lol you just haven't read the comics" comes across as incredibly condescending.

If you had asked me what I thought of Rebirth after the first ten series I read, I would have been leaning towards the "Rebirth Sucks" camp. Of the "big" Rebirth books, I've liked about three and those are a 7/10 at best.

Like someone else said no one is being dismissive here. We are talking about people who troll/shit post in every comic book thread without reading the books, or even knowing the context behind something.


Don't get your feelings hurt like Messi. We aren't talking about people here. If you read the books and formed an opinion that is perfectly fine.

 

[LordOfLore]

New piece by Sejic called Return to Arkham:

 

[caliph95]

Yep only read an issue i guess and a half of Kill Six Billion Demons the creator is influenced by Mignolaverse

 

[whatsinaname]

The thing is, as least in the OT threads, a pretty significant amount of bitching about comics comes from people who don't read them. That's a crappy thing worthy of condescension, and if you and everyone here knows you're not who is not being referenced by that condescension, then you shouldn't feel attacked by those comments.

Like someone else said no one is being dismissive here. We are talking about people who troll/shit post in every comic book thread without reading the books, or even knowing the context behind something.


Don't get your feelings hurt like Messi. We aren't talking about people here. If you read the books and formed an opinion that is perfectly fine.

This is really not helping.

I mean...

Rebirth sucks so it will suck.

The question is how much.

what makes you say this.

I read a lot of them because review copies. They're almost all bad save Wonder Woman and Superman. New Superman is solid too, but pretty far removed from this Button nonsense.

I am sorry what. How can you say you read a lot of them then start with "save wonder woman"

You didn't even list the best rebirth books.

?

 

[LordOfLore]

Comic Legends Revealed: The Neil Gaiman Batman Story That Never Was

 

[Donniewahlberg]

Actually after saying that I struggled to come up with the three between 4. Superman, Deathstroke, New Super-Man may be my top 3 with Batman just barely falling out of those 3.

If I was including Young Animal I'd really struggle with what to pick with Shade and Doom Patrol being included.

Haha fair enough. I wasn't testing you, just a genuine wonder. I'm picking up some more Rebirth volumes so just trying to gauge what everyone is enjoying across the board. Whatsinaname's review series is handy but for folks who read monthly, it's harder to go back and pick through weekly reviews. New Superman isn't out in trade yet unfortunately, everyone seems to love that

 

[TheFlow]

This is really not helping.

I mean...









?

Notice how I called him out on it, he gave more of an explanation, I said how is that possible when he didn't include the best books. Then I left it alone. I didn't pester the man more, just left it alone. I realized he had a more formed opinion than the other trolls who you somehow didn't bother to post

but ok I am game lets break it down some more.

1.why did you pick that one conversation out of that thread when the first post is "Sigh". I feel like you are looking to start a fire, where there is no smoke.

2. Every poster here will quote you if you shit on one of their favorite series.Examples:


Tragic called a bunch of rebirth books bad, and people of course reacted to that.

Repairman said he didn't like Nightwing outside of one arc and of course me and another poster wanted to know why. When we found out the reason we backed off and said fair enough.


Many people here find Wonder Woman slow so to say that is is the only good Rebirth book besides superman will some eyerolls.


You have read the first volume of 10 series am I correct? Again js nobody here cares if you don't like rebirth. Bringing up my post from another thread just makes it look like you are reaching for straws.

Haha fair enough. I wasn't testing you, just a genuine wonder. I'm picking up some more Rebirth volumes so just trying to gauge what everyone is enjoying across the board. Whatsinaname's review series is handy but for folks who read monthly, it's harder to go back and pick through weekly reviews. New Superman isn't out in trade yet unfortunately, everyone seems to love that

Detective, nightwing, green arrow, superman. Those are the easiest to get into.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Haha fair enough. I wasn't testing you, just a genuine wonder. I'm picking up some more Rebirth volumes so just trying to gauge what everyone is enjoying across the board. Whatsinaname's review series is handy but for folks who read monthly, it's harder to go back and pick through weekly reviews. New Superman isn't out in trade yet unfortunately, everyone seems to love that

New Super-Man is just pure fun. It's got great characters and an interesting dynamic and has turned more into a team book than just a Super-Man book.

I think it becomes even harder when trying to look back at what those first arcs or trades would be. Like I absolutely hated the first arc of Action, but think it's been really great pretty much ever since. The first arc of Deathstroke is where I struggled the most with the Priest writing style, but once everything comes together and starts paying off I look back at it more fondly. Suicide Squad was a lot of fun and the back-ups were great at the start, but feel it took a big dip until the start of this new arc that seems back on track. Green Arrow was pure absolute fun at the start, but quickly fell back on the really bad writing that plagued the book before Rebirth. It becomes hard to say which ones to stick with or what's worth wading through.

Notice how I called him out on it, he gave more of an explanation, I said how is that possible when he didn't include the best books. Then I left it alone. I didn't pester the man more, just left it alone. I realized he had a more formed opinion than the other trolls who you somehow didn't bother to post

but ok I am game lets break it down some more.

1.why did you pick that one conversation out of that thread when the first post is "Sigh". I feel like you are looking to start a fire, where there is no smoke.

2. Every poster here will quote you if you shit on one of their favorite series.Examples:


Tragic called a bunch of rebirth books bad, and people of course reacted to that.

Repairman said he didn't like Nightwing outside of one arc and of course me and another poster wanted to know why. When we found out the reason we backed off and said fair enough.


Many people here find Wonder Woman slow so to say that is is the only good Rebirth book besides superman will some eyerolls.


You have read the first volume of 10 series am I correct? Again js nobody here cares if you don't like rebirth. Bringing up my post from another thread just makes it look like you are reaching for straws.

Detective, nightwing, green arrow, superman. Those are the easiest to get into.

It seemed like you misunderstood him. He said they were mostly bad except for WW and Superman, and it seemed you thought he read most of them except WW and Superman.

Unless I read that wrong...

 

[TheFlow]

New Super-Man is just pure fun. It's got great characters and an interesting dynamic and has turned more into a team book than just a Super-Man book.

I think it becomes even harder when trying to look back at what those first arcs or trades would be. Like I absolutely hated the first arc of Action, but think it's been really great pretty much ever since. The first arc of Deathstroke is where I struggled the most with the Priest writing style, but once everything comes together and starts paying off I look back at it more fondly. Suicide Squad was a lot of fun and the back-ups were great at the start, but feel it took a big dip until the start of this new arc that seems back on track. Green Arrow was pure absolute fun at the start, but quickly fell back on the really bad writing that plagued the book before Rebirth. It becomes hard to say which ones to stick with or what's worth wading through.



It seemed like you misunderstood him. He said they were mostly bad except for WW and Superman, and it seemed you thought he read most of them except WW and Superman.

Unless I read that wrong...

I understood what he meant, but my post was more of a "how is this possible" type post. Like how can you read all those books and only think WW, Superman, and New superman were good.

He replied with this.

Sure I did. I listed Wonder Woman. It's just easier to list the two that are good.

So I stopped replying after that because there was nothing productive to be said.

 

[Donniewahlberg]

Detective, nightwing, green arrow, superman. Those are the easiest to get into.

Cheers for that, I should probably have mentioned that I already tried out the first volumes offff Batman, Superman, Nightwing, TEC & WW.

New Super-Man is just pure fun. It's got great characters and an interesting dynamic and has turned more into a team book than just a Super-Man book.

I think it becomes even harder when trying to look back at what those first arcs or trades would be. Like I absolutely hated the first arc of Action, but think it's been really great pretty much ever since. The first arc of Deathstroke is where I struggled the most with the Priest writing style, but once everything comes together and starts paying off I look back at it more fondly. Suicide Squad was a lot of fun and the back-ups were great at the start, but feel it took a big dip until the start of this new arc that seems back on track. Green Arrow was pure absolute fun at the start, but quickly fell back on the really bad writing that plagued the book before Rebirth. It becomes hard to say which ones to stick with or what's worth wading through.

Haha yea, at the end of the day it's pretty trial and error, no matter who many opinions you gather and even when you've enjoyed/not enjoyed some already. Sometimes I wish I had the same resources some of these guys have, libraries, hoopla etc to try it all out. DC need to start up that digital service and stat haha. Young Animal I'm just going to buy it all, no worries there. No doubt in my mind I'll enjoy most if not all of those.

 

[whatsinaname]

Notice how I called him out on it, he gave more of an explanation, I said how is that possible when he didn't include the best books. Then I left it alone. I didn't pester the man more, just left it alone. I realized he had a more formed opinion than the other trolls who you somehow didn't bother to post

but ok I am game lets break it down some more.

1.why did you pick that one conversation out of that thread when the first post is "Sigh". I feel like you are looking to start a fire, where there is no smoke.

2. Every poster here will quote you if you shit on one of their favorite series.Examples:


You have read the first volume of 10 series am I correct?

I am not really looking to "start a fire". I kept the discussion in here because discussion about that thread was brought into this thread. I brought it up because some of the posts in that thread (and in other OT comics threads) sometimes start sounding like those dreaded "gatekeeping the fandom" moments. Didn't mean to single you out from this one thread, it's just that this was the most recent example that caught my attention and you are active in this thread. If you want one more example, read GrandHarrier's post on there.

Yeah, I've read first volumes of about 12 series now and the Rebirth single issue.

 

[TheFlow]

I am not really looking to "start anything". I kept the discussion in here because discussion about that thread was brought into this thread. I brought it up because some of the posts in that thread (and in other OT comics threads) sometimes start sounding like those dreaded "gatekeeping the fandom" moments. Didn't mean to single you out from this one thread, it's just that this was the most recent example that caught my attention and you are active in this thread. If you want one more example, read GrandHarrier's post on there.

Yeah, I've read first volumes of about 12 series now and the Rebirth single issue.

What do you expect when you actual read the line, and people start drive by posting in that DC thread.

I am not the only one who called out the shit post in that thread. Psych called out the first post. Comic-gaf.

Like I said if someone doesn't like Rebirth as a whole or one of my favorite books then cool. Once you start saying some irrational stuff then yea I am going to call you out on it so you can explain your reasonings behind your post.

Also I think some of the DC rebirth books improve after the first volume. nightwing is one of them imo

 

[whatsinaname]

Anyone read The Only Living Boy series? Picked up the first three volumes, plan to start on that today.

What do you expect when you actual read the line, and people start drive by posting in that DC thread.

I am not the only one who called out the shit post in that thread. Psych called out the first post. Comic-gaf.

Like I said if someone doesn't like Rebirth as a whole or one of my favorite books then cool. Once you start saying some irrational stuff then yea I am going to call you out on it so you can explain your reasonings behind your post.

Also I think some of the DC rebirth books improve after the first volume. nightwing is one of them imo

Fair enough.

 

[Messi]

Like someone else said no one is being dismissive here. We are talking about people who troll/shit post in every comic book thread without reading the books, or even knowing the context behind something.


Don't get your feelings hurt like Messi. We aren't talking about people here. If you read the books and formed an opinion that is perfectly fine.

Take this crap elsewhere it's not welcome.

 

[TheFlow]

You won't be allowed to have that opinion here... Watch...

Take this crap elsewhere it is not welcome

 

[dan2026]

DC have the balls to show glorious blue dong in their superhero comic?

Find out in November!

 

[caliph95]

Can say one thing KSBD looks great

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Can say one thing KSBD looks great

That art looks crazy good, but the facial expressions in this book are absurd lol

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

so, I've been going back and forth on ideas for a Valiant beginner's guide, and was wanting to gauge interest as well as what kind of information people would want to see in it. I was going to make it much more loose rather than just post a reading order, so I was thinking three categories of entry points to appeal to different kinds of readers - currently ongoing series, miniseries, and longer completed runs - with a description, the creators, what it's preceded by, what follows it, and the different ways of purchasing. It will forego the rigidity of the "reading order" and just provide good stories people can pick up with little or no context, but in a "here's some context if you want it" kind of way. Then some miscellaneous info at the end about other media. Also, this would be its own thread, as long as I can get approval for it.

Thoughts?

 

[whatsinaname]

so, I've been going back and forth on ideas for a Valiant beginner's guide, and was wanting to gauge interest as well as what kind of information people would want to see in it. I was going to make it much more loose rather than just post a reading order, so I was thinking three categories of entry points to appeal to different kinds of readers - currently ongoing series, miniseries, and longer completed runs - with a description, the creators, what it's preceded by, what follows it, and the different ways of purchasing. It will forego the rigidity of the "reading order" and just provide good stories people can pick up with little or no context, but in a "here's some context if you want it" kind of way. Then some miscellaneous info at the end about other media. Also, this would be its own thread, as long as I can get approval for it.

Thoughts?

That sounds better than an overwhelmingly long reading order. Maybe a small section for each recommendation that says "if you liked this, read these other valiant series:"?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

That sounds better than an overwhelmingly long reading order. Maybe a small section for each recommendation that says "if you liked this, read these other valiant series:"?

Understandably so. Because it's only a few years old, people often want to just try to read everything when its so so unnecessary.

Also, yes, that's a good suggestion. I will definitely work that one in. Thanks!

 

[caliph95]

What to do about crossovers?

 

[Donniewahlberg]

Sounds like a great idea, especially focusing on creators and runs over reading orders. When I was looking recently, it was definitely on the strength of the creators and it felt like since The Valiant, there has been more emphasis on bespoke runs that rely less on reading in a certain order to match up with the events. The nice thing is they've emphasised creator driven runs from the start so you have the Dysart Harbinger run, the Venditti xo run etc.

Still going to grab some Valiant stuff, just ended up catching up on other stuff I was behind on this week before starting anything new, so maybe I can make use of the thread thinking I might just start at The Valiant after all, go back later once I'm up to speed.

Edit: maybe mention big two work the creators have done in brackets, emphasis what these guys have under their belt so folks feel more confident in checking them out.

 

[LordOfLore]

For our Doom Patrol collectors.

 

[PsychBat!]

hey hey
you you
I don't like your girlfriend

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

What to do about crossovers?

ok, full disclosure: I've actually put in a fair amount of work into the hypothetical thread already lol I've worked in the two main traditional style crossovers (Harbinger Wars and Armor Hunters) as part of their respective main series. I'll put an author's note that those also have tie-in issues that complement the story but are necessary.

Sounds like a great idea, especially focusing on creators and runs over reading orders. When I was looking recently, it was definitely on the strength of the creators and it felt like since The Valiant, there has been more emphasis on bespoke runs that rely less on reading in a certain order to match up with the events. The nice thing is they've emphasised creator driven runs from the start so you have the Dysart Harbinger run, the Venditti xo run etc.

Still going to grab some Valiant stuff, just ended up catching up on other stuff I was behind on this week before starting anything new, so maybe I can make use of the thread thinking I might just start at The Valiant after all, go back later once I'm up to speed.

Edit: maybe mention big two work the creators have done in brackets, emphasis what these guys have under their belt so folks feel more confident in checking them out.

That last suggestion is great. I'll work that in as well. Thanks!

 

[RepairmanJack]

For our Doom Patrol collectors.

Well, I'll be using a new avatar here soon.