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Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Discussion Thread

xezuru

Member
Who're your guys' favorite players to watch in any Smash? Personally...

Melee: non-Emo (Marth) Mew2King, Ib, Darkrain, (Peach) Armada, aMSa, (Falcon) Hax.
Honorable Mentions: Leffen's dumb face, Mang0's opposing Buster face, FalcoMaster, the Ganon Mains, rest of the Falcons.

Project M: Sethlon, Professor Pro, (Wolf) Chillindude, I feel like I brainfarted on the rest I'll come back to it later.
 

Azure J

Member
Smash 64: Isai (duh)
Melee: PPMD
Kreygasm
/PewPewU/M2K on Final Destination in Final Boss Mode (Marth), Perfect Westballz (Falco), Amsa (Yoshi), Bizarro Flame (Ganondorf), Darkrain/Lord (Falcon)
Brawl: Mr. E (Marth)
Smash 4: Amsa (Greninja), Officer Jenny (Zero Suit Samus) [This one might be a bit outdated, does she play anymore?], Boss (Luigi)
Project M: Armada (Pit, rip), Prof. Pro (Snake), Sethlon (Roy who is actually not my boy but close enough when watching Seth), whoever picks up Lyn and goes all Sojiro the Tenken first.
 

Videoneon

Member
Just for Melee:

Armada (goddess)
Mew2King (he's so ridiculous, it's like he just brute forces his opponent with game knowledge, but it's funny)
Wobbles
Jeapie
Scar
Vwins (PEAAACHHHH)
All FalcoMasters (Ralph, anyone else including MattDotZeb)
PewFat (one entity)

It's a long list and there are a lot of people I like watching. I may add more later.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
What do you folks suggest for recording matches? I'd like to be able to go back and rewatch to look for specific things to improve on.

I have a capture card, but it's HDMI only and my PC isn't near my CRT anyway. The Live Gamer Portable looks interesting since it can record to an SD card without a PC, but it's kind of expensive. Is there anything similar to that but maybe older? Don't really even need HD support.

Of course, I could just do... nothing. Wait for 20XX tournament edition and use the replay feature. That would leave out PM though, which we actually play more often (and I'd rather not drop the full version).
 
Man that Mango stream with Leffen was a lot more entertaining than I was expecting, ended up watching like all night lol.

Besides the players already mentioned, I also like to watch Green Ranger, Azen (so many of the old videos I used to watch included him), DoYoung2Win (fringe CA player/friend and old sparring partner), Axe, n0ne, Android in doubles, & S2J. Really though there's so many good players I enjoy watching!
 

GamerJM

Banned
Amsa, Mango, Armada (especially with his Fox, actually), Leffen, M2K Marth (I don't enjoy watching his Shiek as much), PewPewU, Axe, Bizarro Flame, PPMD, S2J, Lord, and Hax.

Pretty generic answer I guess but eh
 

Moonlight

Banned
Alright, let's see...

Smash 64: Isai (anyone)
Melee: Ken (because c'mon + Marth), aMSa (Red Yoshi hype), M2K (when he's in Super Saiyan + Marth), Bizzaroflame (Ganondorf), Axe (Pikachu), PPU (Marth), Hungrybox (Jiggssss), Armada (Peach), PPMD (Marth)
Brawl: uhhhhh
Smash 4: Nairo (Robin + ZSS), AeroLink (Palutena), Ally (Mario, Shulk), aMSa (Greninja), NAKAT (Ness), False (Sheik), Abadango (Pac Man)
Project M: ESAM (Samus), Pink Fresh (Lucas), Sethlon (Roy), Professor Pro (Snake), Rolex (Snake), Ally (Ike), Armada (Pit)

Runner-ups include Badada (Shulk) from Smash 4, Leffen (only because of how much he owns his role in the community), Mang0, Eikelmann and Kage for both repping the Ganon life, and Hax before he defected to 20XX.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Won some sets! Which is nice for a second tournament
doubly so when I've barely been practicing over the last week or two

Played a pretty good Ganondorf in the first set had a good first game, I lost but it came down to the last stock. SD'd right off the bat in game 2 and I think I kind of subconsciously gave up, because it was ugly.

Then won two in losers, both fairly solidly. One guy played Link and took one good game off me, but the other two I won pretty handily. Then I played a Falco player that trashed me pretty hard, lol.

Good news is that my suspicions were confirmed, they do indeed do tourneys every third Saturday, so I'm going to see if I can take that Saturday off each month and go. Wish they did weeklies, I want to play people more often.
 

xezuru

Member
GAFers actually playing these old man games?
Times are changing.

Seen some great sets so far, any highlights from Sandstorm this early on?

Edit: Welp, looks like I should replace Chillindude's Wolf with Oksas cause goddamm.
 

Daouzin

Member
While 20XX is definitely happening I think Sandstorm top 8 just showed us what the next level is for Pikachu, Falco and Jiggs.

This new generation or Smash reminds me of the New World in One Piece and I'm pumped.

Westballz was insane.
 
That's true too. I think the only character he has to worry about is a solid Marth.

FTFY

(Mango's Fox could also do it if he gets back in form)

We say this every few months with someone different. Armada, then PPMD, then Mango, then PPMD, now Armada again.

Fact of the matter is, Armada is by far the most consistent, but he can't sleep on anybody. Leffen is absolutely a huge threat as well, and Hbox has done very well the last few times they've played, even with the fox change. Tonight also reinforced the shrinking divide between gods and nongods. Armada can't and won't get comfortable, because once he's complacent, he's done.
 

Daouzin

Member
FTFY

(Mango's Fox could also do it if he gets back in form)

Haha yeah, that's what I meant.

The social media response to SandStorm is disappointing. I think moving forward they need to stick to 2 games (at most) and that's not going to bode well for PM. MVG has a lot of work ahead of itself.
 

emb

Member
Haha yeah, that's what I meant.

The social media response to SandStorm is disappointing. I think moving forward they need to stick to 2 games (at most) and that's not going to bode well for PM. MVG has a lot of work ahead of itself.
You may have explained this in the tournament thread... but was it as bad in person as people online are making it out to be?

As a viewer I only know that the stream was pretty rough and the power outage in GFs is a pretty terrible shame.
 
We say this every few months with someone different. Armada, then PPMD, then Mango, then PPMD, now Armada again.

Fact of the matter is, Armada is by far the most consistent, but he can't sleep on anybody. Leffen is absolutely a huge threat as well, and Hbox has done very well the last few times they've played, even with the fox change. Tonight also reinforced the shrinking divide between gods and nongods. Armada can't and won't get comfortable, because once he's complacent, he's done.

This is the problem that I think Mang0 is currently going through. The past couple months he was just complacent and playing All-Star/CS without much practice or reps at tourneys. He was overly confident and thought he could turn it on anytime and beat the competition. His fox now looks mediocre at times because of this. Still has a great Falco as we seen at INY but I'm not sure if that can carry him to a 3-peat at EVO. Mang0 needs to hit the tourney road and practice hard over the next 2 months.
 

Daouzin

Member
You may have explained this in the tournament thread... but was it as bad in person as people online are making it out to be?

As a viewer I only know that the stream was pretty rough and the power outage in GFs is a pretty terrible shame.

I thought the tournament was fine in person. I think PM had the most issues because it had the most delays and the smallest amount of space to work with, but as a Melee player I thought it was a suuuuuuper fun tournament. I think the Smash 4 space should have been larger as well, but besides that I really enjoyed myself.

I think for the next tournament they just need a bigger venue and obviously a better internet connection.

This is the problem that I think Mang0 is currently going through. The past couple months he was just complacent and playing All-Star/CS without much practice or reps at tourneys. He was overly confident and thought he could turn it on anytime and beat the competition. His fox now looks mediocre at times because of this. Still has a great Falco as we seen at INY but I'm not sure if that can carry him to a 3-peat at EVO. Mang0 needs to hit the tourney road and practice hard over the next 2 months.

Agreed. It's time for him to start taking the game seriously again. He literally passed out drunk during a teams match at Sandstorm. Dropped his controller and everything. A friend of mine is like 100% responsible for getting him that drunk. When Mango came to he said, "Welcome to Arizona, B****!"

Mango just can't say no to booze.
 

Codeblue

Member
I feel pretty bad for M2K. He should look at how Choi handled the Street Fighter fiasco. He doesn't need to punish himself for some of the things that went wrong. I really hope MVG is successful for him.

Edit: Also, for everything that went wrong, this tournament had some of the most hype matches I've seen in a while.
 

xezuru

Member
Northwest Majors is this weekend. I'll be there. Any other gaffers going?

I entered Melee and PM. I haven't played PM in a while but I'll probably jump back and forth between Fox and Falcon in that game.

I was planning on it, but usually I go to tournies with a friend of mine and we were both kinda busy this time around, didn't know anyone else was going so shrug, really wanted to get into PM/Melee. Heard there were locals in the Renton area though that I might be going to some time, I really need to get my ass handed to me and actually level up.

Good luck doods.
 

xezuru

Member
Man, due to my shitty computer and lack of a GC adapter johns (for dolphin), I've been going on long spurts of shitty rust and decay in my gameplay.

You guys have any resources/tips on anything in general/platform movement?
Simple little things that have been a noticeable cumulative con to my gameplay that's obvious atleast:
Characters: try to play any fast faller but mains: Marth, Roy PM

-Can't really consistently instant rising uair shffl.
-Sometimes I get absolutely nothing/Up Smash trying to get a platform drop Up Air.
-Is it faster/better to double jump Waveland or Full Jump waveland onto a platform.
-What's the operator for tumble (I try to waveland backwards off a platform fair and tumble off into helpless state)
-Get a shield when trying to grab.
 

emb

Member
Man, due to my shitty computer and lack of a GC adapter johns (for dolphin), I've been going on long spurts of shitty rust and decay in my gameplay.

You guys have any resources/tips on anything in general/platform movement?
Simple little things that have been a noticeable cumulative con to my gameplay that's obvious atleast:
Characters: try to play any fast faller but mains: Marth, Roy PM

-Can't really consistently instant rising uair shffl.
-Sometimes I get absolutely nothing/Up Smash trying to get a platform drop Up Air.
-Is it faster/better to double jump Waveland or Full Jump waveland onto a platform.
-What's the operator for tumble (I try to waveland backwards off a platform fair and tumble off into helpless state)
-Get a shield when trying to grab.
As far as overall resource, I like to give people http://www.smashlounge.com/ and https://vods.co/

In general, I'm not to sure what to mention with platform movement. Once you have down the wavelanding, it's mostly just a matter of practice so you can get more consistent. Start building up mini-patterns and variations
Waveland - fall through - double jump - waveland
Waveland off platform - double jump toward platform - waveland off again (repeatedly forever)
Waveland off platform - jump - waveland off top platform - waveland off other side platform - repeat (can't remember, but iirc either the double jump or the short hop just before you leave the first platform won't quite get you to top platform on like... Battlefield or something)
Waveland off platform - falling aerial
Waveland off platform - double jump aerial
Waveland onto platform - grab
Waveland on - dash dance briefly - move to another platform
As spacies, jump - shine near platform - waveland
Substitute dropping through the platform for wavelanding when above a platform
Then mixup some of those drop throughs with dj waveland
etc etc etc with all the small mixups.

One thing I didn't do for an embarrassingly long time at first was fast fall each time I wavelanded on a platform and went to the ground. x_x Also helps to get into the habit of fast falling when you wavedash backward off stage to grab the edge. You can make it that tiny bit faster and it feels a lot better, but then if you hold down too long you'll go by the edge without grabbing (at least that sentence is true as Marth, anyway).

Shield dropping is kinda fun to learn (hold all they way in a left/right direction before you shield, then tilt the stick one notch down while one a platform). Then you can mix that in with dash dance -> shield stop on platforms, and work on getting aerials out after the shield drop before you hit the ground.

Also good to edge cancel aerials (do the aerial as you slide off the platform edge) when working on platform movement (or at least it's fun and it looks cool). Take care not to accidentally air dodge with late l-cancels though.

-Rising uair doesn't really have a trick, I just had to practice quickly moving my thumb to the c-stick. If it helps though, you can tilt up (like you're doing an uptilt) and then press A right as you press jump, since it's right there.

-Hmm.... Up Smash would mean you're hitting the c-stick or A button too early. No idea how it would end up as nothing though.

-I don't know. Intuitively, it feels faster to double jump; I think it's just from a habit of wavedashing though; it feels right to me if I press jump right before I do the air dodge. I think I do it both ways though. No idea if one way is better than the other, it's a good question. I guess there is that brief period during the double jump method where you're really vulnerable if you get hit and then end up with no jump.

-I hadn't ever really been sure, though I could feel it about to happen a lot. The question made me curious though, so I looking around I actually found out that you tumble when you put your shield back up before the waveland off:
http://smashboards.com/threads/tumbling-after-a-waveland-on-a-platform.336468/

-Shield when trying to grab: seems like Z or RA held too long/stuck/pressed too early (while something else was happening maybe?)

Sorry if this ended up being kinda ramble-y and all over the place, hope something in there helped.
 

Shimesaba

Member
-Can't really consistently instant rising uair shffl.
This one is kind of tricky. If sh -> c-stick up isn't giving you a fast enough uair, one way that I know a lot of Melee Falcon players do this is to start holding Up (lightly, no tap) before the jump and then slide from Y to A (while still holding up).

-Sometimes I get absolutely nothing/Up Smash trying to get a platform drop Up Air.
You might be tapping down for the platform drop during an unactionable state (lag from an attack, or landing).

-Get a shield when trying to grab.
This one is definitely from inputting the grab during an unactionable state (lag from an attack, landing, turning around, whatever). You press Z for the grab while you're in lag, the lag ends and you still have Z pressed, you get the shield from holding Z.
(This quirk of Z is actually useful for setting up the "Marth Killer": roll to ledge, press and hold Z and towards the ledge while you're in the middle of the roll, you'll come out of it and go right into a fully angled light shield)


I didn't answer the other questions because I don't know the answers. I would guess that double jumping is usually faster but it's probably character dependent. I'll try to recreate that waveland off into tumble thing tomorrow.
 
Cool, my wii broke so I was thinking of getting one for my pc.

Alright here's my report. When set to Wii U mode the Mayflash adapter gets recognized by Dolphin (version 4.0-5886 used) and operates identically to the official adapter. I did not perceive any lag from playing and I also did some dead zone tests in the config screens. When testing these adapters I like to try to doubleshine and coincidentally I think I found a good rhythm with Fox while using the Mayflash adapter lol.

Tried in PC mode too and the advantage using this mode with Dolphin is customizable controls. Everything worked after configuration EXCEPT the R button when pressed all the way down. The analog portion of it seemed fine, when playing I could shield with it but wavedashing did not work at all with the R button for me. L button was fine. Didn't notice any added lag in PC mode compared to Wii U mode.

From what I can tell the Mayflash adapter works totally fine on Wii U but I spent most of my time playing Melee. Very impressed with it after my first real night using it, if it weren't for the R button thing it would have perfect marks across the board. Oh one last thing, I didn't test rumble on Dolphin but it rumbled while playing Smash Wii U.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Apparently the Mayflash adapter is basically the same as the official one, but it doesn't center/calibrate itself like the original hardware and official adapter do.


Surprised at how many people play on Dolphin though. I had assumed nearly everyone used original hardware but between here and stuff I heard over the weekend, it seems extremely common.
 
Apparently the Mayflash adapter is basically the same as the official one, but it doesn't center/calibrate itself like the original hardware and official adapter do.


Surprised at how many people play on Dolphin though. I had assumed nearly everyone used original hardware but between here and stuff I heard over the weekend, it seems extremely common.

I was switching back and forth between the Mayflash adapter and the official one and I can't say that I noticed that at all. If it wasn't centered or calibrated I think I would have noticed when testing the dead zones.

Playing on Dolphin is a pretty new thing for me, I've been messing around with it for less than a year really. Part of the reason was to play netplay with my good friend that moved but also without a CRT currently in my house it has been the best way to mitigate lag with the recent Dolphin improvements.
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Taking Axe to last stock, game 3, even if you don't win the set you have to feel good about that. Unless you're like Armada or something.
 

Tomohawk

Member
Alright here's my report. When set to Wii U mode the Mayflash adapter gets recognized by Dolphin (version 4.0-5886 used) and operates identically to the official adapter. I did not perceive any lag from playing and I also did some dead zone tests in the config screens. When testing these adapters I like to try to doubleshine and coincidentally I think I found a good rhythm with Fox while using the Mayflash adapter lol.

Tried in PC mode too and the advantage using this mode with Dolphin is customizable controls. Everything worked after configuration EXCEPT the R button when pressed all the way down. The analog portion of it seemed fine, when playing I could shield with it but wavedashing did not work at all with the R button for me. L button was fine. Didn't notice any added lag in PC mode compared to Wii U mode.

From what I can tell the Mayflash adapter works totally fine on Wii U but I spent most of my time playing Melee. Very impressed with it after my first real night using it, if it weren't for the R button thing it would have perfect marks across the board. Oh one last thing, I didn't test rumble on Dolphin but it rumbled while playing Smash Wii U.

Thanks for the info, I'm gonna order one. Can't wait for it to arrive.
 
lol at this Twitter exchange

Robin Harn ‏@JuggleRob Apr 21
@MacDsmash Considering how often @TSM_Leffen travels to America these days, he should just move here already!

MacD ‏@MacDsmash Apr 21
@JuggleRob @TSM_Leffen as much as we would all love that. he loves Sweden and his GF soooooo RIP

William Hjelte
‏@TSM_Leffen
@MacDsmash @JuggleRob dont forget tap water and healthcare

https://twitter.com/TSM_Leffen/status/590733636623826944
 

Tomohawk

Member
lol at this Twitter exchange

Robin Harn ‏@JuggleRob Apr 21
@MacDsmash Considering how often @TSM_Leffen travels to America these days, he should just move here already!

MacD ‏@MacDsmash Apr 21
@JuggleRob @TSM_Leffen as much as we would all love that. he loves Sweden and his GF soooooo RIP

William Hjelte
‏@TSM_Leffen
@MacDsmash @JuggleRob dont forget tap water and healthcare

https://twitter.com/TSM_Leffen/status/590733636623826944

Sweet he'll have no problem with Canada then.
 

Daouzin

Member
lol at this Twitter exchange

Robin Harn ‏@JuggleRob Apr 21
@MacDsmash Considering how often @TSM_Leffen travels to America these days, he should just move here already!

MacD ‏@MacDsmash Apr 21
@JuggleRob @TSM_Leffen as much as we would all love that. he loves Sweden and his GF soooooo RIP

William Hjelte
‏@TSM_Leffen
@MacDsmash @JuggleRob dont forget tap water and healthcare

https://twitter.com/TSM_Leffen/status/590733636623826944

Hahahahaha! I had to post that on Instagram, too funny.
 

Shimesaba

Member
-What's the operator for tumble (I try to waveland backwards off a platform fair and tumble off into helpless state)

To add to my post from before - I messed around with this and what's happening is you're holding the shield button for too long when you wavedash. If you have your shield up and you get pushed off of a platform, you tumble. If you're holding the shield button down this long in general, you're probably losing a lot of frames by bringing your shield up after wavedashes when you don't want it. Get your finger off that R/L button faster :V
 
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