ShadyAcshuns
Member
As others have already pointed out, a very large majority of people trade in phones and pay monthly for them. Most people don't go out and buy $1000 phones every few years. So no, it's not AcTuAlLy TrUe.
Console pricing has gone terribly wrong | Opinion [Gi.biz]
- Thread starter adamsapple
- Start date
Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
You can pay monthly for a console as well these days, there's many ways if someone needs that. Consoles hit 700 bucks in the 90s, 30 years later and we have a ps5 pro at 700 bucks, 30 fucking years... Thirty. If people want to talk about what's going in the wrong direction that would be PCs. I spent 1900 bucks for my 4090 which is ridiculous, consoles are fine. What do you want a 300 dollar machine? 400? That's not even realistic to expect given where we are in the gaming time line.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
Well... like the thread title/article suggests, it's pricing people out of buying these things, and will inevitably hurt future console sales to the point where companies will likely think it isn't worth making them anymore, or just change it to where it becomes a very niche market of insignificance like the PC handhelds.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
Btw, does anyone have up-to-date sales data on the PS5 Pro?
reinking
Gold Member
It is not. Of course some people pay that much but the average price of a cell phone is significantly lower than that. I am not sure why this is even a comparison though. Very different devices that do not even compete head-to-head. I would be willing to bet that if someone has to choose between having only a phone or only a console, the phone is going to win 100% of the time. That is why I believe there is a chance many people might move over to mobile gaming if they get priced out of console gaming.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Not to mention that Switch 2 is everything but cheap and by bit significantly dropping Switch 1 and Lite prices Nintendo also doesn't seem to care to "bring in new consumers", at this point they are just cashing in on the existing fan base.
Avid Reading Horse
Member
How brave and stunning of gameindustry.biz to come out against high prices. You know what? I too condemn these high prices! Of course, I can offer you no solutions or relief, but I am against it and thus Sony should lower the prices!
Lokaum D+
Member
Sony’s $499 PS5 is no longer selling at a loss
The PS5 won’t be costly like the PS3.
www.theverge.com
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
No, because inflation adjusted prices and affordability are two separate things. Inflation adjusted, the price can be the "same" 10 years later, with affordability having changed drastically.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Nonsense.
My 12 yo stepson plays on PS5 every day, so do all his friends.
So does my 10 year old cousin, my nephew and niece and pretty much every kid I know.
They also all own a Switch.
You're right about the games (except maybe LoL), but they all play it on console.
Lord Malachite
Member
I find it hard to believe that Capcom is overly worried about Japan, which is a very small market overall.
Taking bestselling home consoles there, the Wii sold just over 10 million units and the PS4 just under 10 million. The PS5 is sitting at nearly 7 million units sold and still has years to go.
There are no wild fluctuations in Japan in overall platform sales despite this generation being a very different experience as far as pricing has gone.
The PS5 is selling and giving Capcom plenty of opportunity to make sales. The Switch sold very well for Japan and there are no indications that the Switch 2 won't.
But the glory days of Monster Hunter on the PSP are over. The rise and evolution of the smart phone and tablet have made the dedicated portable gaming device extinct. Nintendo has done well with their "best of both worlds" approach with the Switch and Switch 2, but that "bubble" period Capcom went through with the PSP where nearly every unit of hardware sold in Japan was guaranteed to sell a copy of Monster Hunter is just over. Games are more expensive to make now, and sales are not guaranteed. But there is plenty of opportunity to make money.
A $49.99 MSRP title in 2005 translates to $82.69 today,so the current pricing structure is very much in tune. Game pricing overall has been steady, adjusted for inflation. But a strategy of following the playback from twenty years ago and expecting to reap a large profit is doomed to failure.
Lord Malachite
Member
Well if after adjusting for inflation, prices are the same. I don't see how "affordability" is an issue. Inflaton adjusted, some consoles cost less now than they did 20 years ago--the PS3 being a prime example.
Are you referring to the overall increased cost of living? Housing and food cost much more now than they did twenty years ago. So I can see how that would play a factor in people's budgets and reduce the amount of money available for pleasure spending and hobbies, which gaming clearly falls into.
But there is no easy answer to that. Platform holders and game publishers aren't about to start selling their products at heavy losses. Sony tried that with the PS3, subsidizing it to get Blu-Ray into more people's homes. It was nearly the end of them. As it is, consoles are pretty much sold at cost today with little to no profit being wrung out from the actual hardware purchase. It's all about the software, subscriptions,, and accessories when it comes to making profit.
We could see a tightening of belts to get actual games to come down in price a bit, smaller teams and budgets that can mkae smaller and more affordable titles. Certainly every game doesn't need to be treated like the next AAAA blockbuster or "CoD killer" that the market has been seeking or twenty years.
There aren't a lot of moves to make or wands to wave to make gaming as a whole more affordable. Maybe if the world's supply and economic conditions right themselves, but the demand for components is very high and driving prices up, not down.
Starbuck2907
Member
In the U.S., a new iPad is about $249 on sale, which happens often and phones are typically paid off at $20 a month and partially subsidized by the carrier.
If you remember, MS actually launched the Xbox with a 24 month financing option this gen. I guess they fazed it out because I never hear about it anymore.
Wildebeest
Member
I blame the kids for not having rich parents who can buy everything for them.
winjer
Member
And things will just get worse from now on.
When the PS5 launched, on the N7 process node, a wafer would cost around 6000$. So a 300mm^2 chip, for the SoC, would cost close to 80$.
Now on N2, a wafer costs 30000$, so a chip of the same size will cost 260$ to make. Even if Sony were to target a 500$ PS6, that would make it half the cost of it.
But then there is the cost of the rest of the materials needed to make a console.
Prices to develop new process nodes were already on the rise, so wafer price increases were inevitable.
But with the AI boom and TSMC having a monopoly in the cutting edge nodes, means they can increase prices as they wish.
And they have increased prices constantly, even for older nodes.
So unless there is a big crash in the AI market, we are screwed.
When the PS5 launched, on the N7 process node, a wafer would cost around 6000$. So a 300mm^2 chip, for the SoC, would cost close to 80$.
Now on N2, a wafer costs 30000$, so a chip of the same size will cost 260$ to make. Even if Sony were to target a 500$ PS6, that would make it half the cost of it.
But then there is the cost of the rest of the materials needed to make a console.
Prices to develop new process nodes were already on the rise, so wafer price increases were inevitable.
But with the AI boom and TSMC having a monopoly in the cutting edge nodes, means they can increase prices as they wish.
And they have increased prices constantly, even for older nodes.
So unless there is a big crash in the AI market, we are screwed.
veterangamerUK
Member
Yep, it's been a shit decade so far and no signs of improving
SuperC
Member
..Sony’s $499 PS5 is no longer selling at a loss
The PS5 won’t be costly like the PS3.
Always remember that these companies are responsible to their shareholders only and those shareholders want to see growth and more profits. Price of components go up then so does the product that sits on the shelves.
What pisses me off is Nintendo's og Switch going up in price, how the fuck does that happen? Greedy bastards!
What pisses me off is Nintendo's og Switch going up in price, how the fuck does that happen? Greedy bastards!
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
"Adjusted for inflation" arguments are just stupid for comparisson. Mainly because people that lived in 1995, 2005 or whenever live in the moment, they dont think how their $50 dollar purchase should feel like its actually $80 because 20 years from then something that was $50 now costs $80 and somehow that is supposed to prove how pricing has always been the same and fair. No, $50 always sounded like $50...$700 then or now, depending on income still sounds a lot for many people. Maybe back then you could get more for $700 but no, its not like people in 2005 thought OMG $700 (feeling like they are about to spend $10k). The only people that will use that argument is investors. Other than that, to no other human being did $700 sound any less or more than what it does now.
"Oh but the house you buy today if you adjusted for inflation makes it almost similar liek a house from 25 years ago if you were to purchase it bla bla bla"...no, 25 years ago you could of had a steady good job, nothing extravagant and you could own a home. Pricing has been going through the roof while salaries went up snails pace. They were never evened out, you arent now making 40% more than what you would of 20 years ago, actually some are making less for example Pilots which is an industry I have direct experience with. So no, adjusted for inflation is a BS argument and shouldnt be used as a "calm down, actually its the same". Its not, people earn less and pay more than what they did years ago, thats the only fact.
Felessan
Member
Phones costs as much and have shit quality picture. Some will go to phones or cheap laptops as always - it still and will be entry-level gaming devices. Developing world was and is playing on mobile/cheap PC as it's cheaper to have mulipurpose device. But for specialized device consoles was, is and probably will be best value-for-money device.
And it's not like "consoles pricing" problem - it's problem of pricing of every electronic device and physics are to blame. Phones gets more expensive, PC gets more expensive, basically every chip gets more expensive as there is inflation and shrinking doesn't bring cost down, it's only goes up.
Paying in hidden credit doesn't mean you don't pay full sum.
saintjules
Gold Member
Well to be fair there's payment plans that most people go on when buying phones. I usually never buy a phone up front in costs but pay it off on my bill over time.
If console prices gets over $7-800 even, this is something Console makers will want to consider as options at some point.
Miles708
Member
A phone is not a toy and as stupid as a 1000$ phone purchase is (which IS stupid) it's still easier to justify than a console.
The whole "a subset of people can pay 1000 for a phone so that's the standard price of all electronics from now on" discussion is as dumb as it gets.
The whole "a subset of people can pay 1000 for a phone so that's the standard price of all electronics from now on" discussion is as dumb as it gets.
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Edgelord79
Gold Member
This matches what I've seen from my sons and their friends. Prefer to watch tablets and play games on tablets too. Traditional consoles are not used as much.
It's a bit frustrating to watch, but change happens I guess.
It's a bit frustrating to watch, but change happens I guess.
Bojji
Gold Member
I love that anecdotal evidence.
Late gen Z and gen alpha don't care about typical console games experiences - they won't care about consoles when they grow up. They can play their F2P trash on anything.
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Insane Metal
Gold Member
_________ pricing has gone terribly wrong in the last few years. Especially GPUs.
ReyBrujo
Member
In third-world countries you might not have had the latest consoles during your childhood, yet once you hit 35-45 you start getting nostalgic and start buying those games and consoles that you couldn't afford back when you were young. Eventually there could be a gap but once adults return, their children will restart the cycle.
RetroGamingUK
Member
At that point will new hardware generations be necessary?
At what point will the power available to developer be overkill?
reinking
Gold Member
I don't disagree that consoles have always been the best value for money when it comes to gaming. I also agree that the cost of all electronics is going up. That is why I pointed out that if people have to choose, they will choose a phone over a console. That still makes it a console pricing problem because, regardless of reason, there will be people priced out of the market. Personally, I am fine and would prefer true next gen changes instead of using lower specs for consoles to cut costs. That does not mean that I am going to ignore the issue and I hope console makers do not ignore it.
winjer
Member
Most developers rely on a brute force approach to hardware, to improve graphics.
Nowadays, few optimize their games to take proper advantage of the hardware they have available.
This is one of the reasons why so few games in this generation, manage to impress with their graphics.
Worst yet, most devs now rely on upscaling to make up for lack of optimization.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Compared to skewed data because most of those kids play games on their tablets, phones and laptops when they're bored at school without access to their consoles?
Felessan
Member
People just can't adapt to a paradigm shift that make their prediction curve go highwire
There are always be a place for hardware as it's niche remains the same regardless of how tech curve behave - it's value for money for a specialized device. "I'll play on a phone" - phones also have diminishing returns and rising costs and you'll get complete shitty picture on big screen. Phones always be 2 notch worse gaming device compared to console and dedicated gamers will frown on this.
It'll be car situation those stagnated for 50 years - there is a civic, there is a mercedes and there is a ferrari and their positions stays roughly the same as technology advancement in internal combustion engines is very slow
If anything I expect PS5 - pseudo-PS5 aka PS6portabledockedonly last literaly forever now
Yeah, blaming someone else is a godly coping strategy
You make it sound like devs are evil. But more often than not they are just constrained by time and budget (both lenght of development and price of game are two major points of compaint)
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reinking
Gold Member
I am not rooting for this. The fact is, some people will not be able to afford consoles if the prices keep rising regardless of if they want to or not. Those people will be looking for ways to play games and consoles are easier to skip than a phone or a PC. You can talk about shitty screens all you want but even cheaper phones have really good screens these days. Will that translate to big screens? No. Do I think consoles will disappear completely? No. Do I believe consoles can see a significant drop in users if costs continue to rise? Yes.
The biggest problem phones have right now is their software market is saturated with a lot of crap and currently phone gamers do not want to pay a premium price for a title regardless of how good it is. Good luck getting them to pay $70 for a single player game (of course they will easily spend that much on something like Roblox). So, in that regard, maybe phones fail too when it comes to traditional games. There is always streaming but even if it takes off, it does little to keep console sales as high as they are now.
As for knowing the future? I have no idea, I am not Miss Cleo, but I believe there is a risk in alienating a portion of gamers that will not be able to afford it or want to adapt to new ways
twilo99
Member
PS6 and ps6 "pro" or whatever they want to call it will sell both very well but what happens beyond that… anyone's guess
ReBurn
Gold Member
So essentially what you're saying is that PS5 price increases are just greed and were completely unnecessary, right?Sony’s $499 PS5 is no longer selling at a loss
The PS5 won’t be costly like the PS3.
wipeout364
Member
The comparisons to phones need to stop. Phones are a requirement for modern living and are framed as such for people like rent or groceries. They have massive value compared to a console such as email, texting, telephone, movies, tv, music, social media, web browsing, can act as a computer using Microsoft office or android productivity suites. And finally they can play some pretty amazing games on top of that.
Horseganador
Member
Almost all hardware has gone up in price, yet the PS5 has outsold the PS4 in the US, costing much more, and the Switch 2 has broken sales records, costing much more than the original Switch.
asdasdasdbb
Member
That was the disc model only and before TSMC's price hikes (and the inflation)
6502
Gold Member
I would stretch this gen out as primary consoles for another 5 years. If the price increases don't stop within that time, look into starting own chip fabs again or keep 2 levels of console in full support as Sega did in Europe with the Master system getting games and redesigns throughout the Megadrive's life. Not a series S / X situation, more a PS4 plus PS5 one. A £199 entry level machine is needed imo.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Skifi28
Gold Member
Sounds like my childhood.Some of my best friends are videogame consoles
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Or gaming PC's
DaleinCalgary
Member
I agree. I can afford the console and would actually pay more for better specs but I don't take chances on games like I used to when they were cheaper.