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[Heisenberg007]

"Lot of changes in things like how we handle data etc."

Control Ultimate Edition seems like a good first example of how data compression, I/O, and SSD will work on the PS5. The Xbox Series X Version's file size is roughly 68 percent bigger than the PS5 version. If this trend continues (~50 percent difference), the 825GB SSD will store more games than a 1TB SSD.

P.S. This is a very interesting topic. Please don't make it into another console war thread. Thank you.

PS5 File Size: ~25 GB
XSX File Size: ~42 GB

 

[ghairat]

 

[TBiddy]

P.S. This is a very interesting topic. Please don't make it into another console war thread. Thank you.

The thread didn't even make it to post 1.

This is interesting for sure. Are there any other examples of this?

 

[SirTerry-T]

"Lot of changes in things like how we handle data etc."

Control Ultimate Edition seems like a good first example of how data compression, I/O, and SSD will work on the PS5. The Xbox Series X Version's file size is roughly 68 percent bigger than the PS5 version. If this trend continues (~50 percent difference), the 825GB SSD will store more games than a 1TB SSD.

Moreover, the new way of data handling and compression could be another reason why the PS5 version does not suffer from I/O issues and texture pop-in as the Xbox Series and PC versions, according to Digital Foundry.

P.S. This is a very interesting topic. Please don't make it into another console war thread. Thank you.

PS5 File Size: ~25 GB
XSX File Size: ~42 GB

The fella one post above me must have misread your postscript, pal.

 

[Raonak]

A graphically intensive game being only 25gb is something I didn't expect.

Looking forward to seeing more games implement this compression

 

[Bergoglio]

"Lot of changes in things like how we handle data etc."

I don't see CW material here.

 

[Tesseract]

A graphically intensive game being only 25gb is something I didn't expect

how dare you

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well one console has customized designed on purpose hardware the other one is slapped from off the shelves parts last minute project because Microsoft decided they are going to release console after all.

This is unfair, XSX is not a last minute quickly assembled console purely off the shelves.

Direct Storage is not even available as a beta API on PC and they built a console I/O system around it. They have a custom data decompressor unit in HW with custom texture unpacking logic (2-3:1 decompression ratio/throughput), ability to boost clock with SMT disabled, MS designed Audio DSP’s and security chips, etc... even the dual speed UMA memory setup is custom and they produced a massive GPU cluster.

They invested in the SSD I/O solution a lot, but Sony invested more and made some more customisation in the GPU partially also to make up the lower CU count (giving them other benefits too as it allowed them to pursue a higher clock... the two companies had different strategies and invested their R&D/silicon budget differently).

 

[assurdum]

If it's really a "trend" it's an huge deal for ps5. You can practically put on ps5 almost the double of data in a game. It means 68% of more graphic assets available with the same space than recycling those.

 

[Salmon Snake]

This is very good indeed since PS5's SSD has so small capacity!

 

[cormack12]

The thread didn't even make it to post 1.

This is interesting for sure. Are there any other examples of this?

Not to this extent. It's quite interesting, though Control does use a LOT of the same assets all over the place. I think there was some reference to the way the data could be packaged and deduplication. It's difficult to quantify though because they say this is specifically built for the PS5, but then D:AS is 30GB. Demon's Souls is 65GB and that's PS5 only as well. Not as much duplication I imagine.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

What's the reason here? Different compression or the dedicated hardware on the PS5? (if i remember correctly, XSX only has dedicated hardware for decompression).

 

[captainraincoat]

its ok..at least you can move games around on series x to make space
if you happen to have cod+ 1 or 2 other titles your hd would be full now

 

[assurdum]

What's the reason here? Different compression or the dedicated hardware on the PS5? (if i remember correctly, XSX only has dedicated hardware for decompression).

You remember wrong. It's the exact contrary.

 

[[Sigma]]

Size wars . I assume it's duplicates?

 

[assurdum]

Sizes wars

Indeed. It's not a minor advantage in the future perspectives

 

[ANIMAL1975]

You remember wrong. It's the exact contrary.

...? Great answer lol.
What is the exact contrary, the decompression/compression dedicated hardware on XSX, or the sku that has full support?

 

[assurdum]

...? Great answer lol.
What is the exact contrary, the decompression/compression dedicated hardware on XSX, or the sku that has full support?

Series X has not dedicated hardware for such stuff contrary to the ps5

 

[martino]

This tell us ps5 version is the most optimized of them all....

 

[TLZ]

Are they both the same resolution? PS5 and SX I mean.

 

[Heisenberg007]

The thread didn't even make it to post 1.

This is interesting for sure. Are there any other examples of this?

I think this is the first (big) one yet. I am confident we will see more when the last-gen is completely abandoned, and games are written with the new code (and decompressors) in mind.

 

[assurdum]

This tell us ps5 version is the most optimized of them all....

I don't follow you...they dedicate the same times and resources on both

 

[Heisenberg007]

Series X has not dedicated hardware for such stuff contrary to the ps5

Series X does have dedicated HW units for that, but PS5's is roughly 400% more powerful than XSX's.

 

[M1chl]

It probably runs on high, rather than low on PS5, as we seen yesterday.

 

[assurdum]

Series X does have dedicated HW units for that, but PS5's is roughly 400% more powerful than XSX's.

Aren't practically the same HW units used for awhile in the pc space? Don't remind any of special or unique inside the series X from this point of views

 

[Codeblew]

Are they both the same resolution? PS5 and SX I mean.

I think you mean texture resolution. That is what I was wondering as well. If they are the same, I guess SX is still using duplicate assets or the PS5 is compressing better.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I think you mean texture resolution. That is what I was wondering as well. If they are the same, I guess SX is still using duplicate assets or the PS5 is compressing better.

I don't think it's about duplicating assets. It has more to do with compression and then decompressing the data fast enough to send to the screen. PS5's core focus was on data handling and decompression via fast I/O and SSD, so I guess that effort is bearing fruits now.

In my guess, the devs were able to compress the data more efficiently on PS5 because its faster SSD, I/O, and dedicated decompressor units, can decompress that data quickly enough to send to the screen. (That's why there is no pop-ins either). And that's why PS5 version turned out to be a lower file size (because of more aggressive compression).

 

[Physiognomonics]

I think you mean texture resolution. That is what I was wondering as well. If they are the same, I guess SX is still using duplicate assets or the PS5 is compressing better.

We know PS5 (with Kraken) is compressing better than XSX (Zlib). About 30% better compression according to this old thread.

Kraken Vs ZLIB: 29% Smaller Game Sizes Losslessly, 297% Faster Decompression on PS5

Kraken VS ZLIB: According to the official graph by RAD Game Tools, Kraken has 29% higher compression ratio over ZLIB (used in PS4 and other platforms), and does it 3-5x faster (doesn't really concern us as gamers, only good for devs). Both Kraken and ZLIB are lossless compressions, meaning data...

www.neogaf.com

But that shouldn't be enough. My guess: they are using oodle on top of Kraken only on PS5.

 

[Negotiator101]

A graphically intensive game being only 25gb is something I didn't expect.

Looking forward to seeing more games implement this compression

What's the PC version size?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Not to this extent. It's quite interesting, though Control does use a LOT of the same assets all over the place. I think there was some reference to the way the data could be packaged and deduplication. It's difficult to quantify though because they say this is specifically built for the PS5, but then D:AS is 30GB. Demon's Souls is 65GB and that's PS5 only as well. Not as much duplication I imagine.

Demon's Souls at 65 GB is still mighty impressive. That game was sending data at 4 GB/s (freakin' amazing!!). If it's 65 Gb -- with the level of texture quality it has and high polygon count -- I think it's nothing short of magical.

With conventional methods, the game would easily be 100-110 GB.

 

[Thomish]

Is this the first (somewhat) implementation of Kraken decompression?

I would also like to know if Xbox SX and the PS5 are running the exact same settings.

 

[Heisenberg007]

What's the PC version size?

Not 100% sure, but I think it's also around 42 GB.

 

[nikolino840]

Aren't practically the same HW units used for awhile in the pc space? Don't remind any of special or unique inside the series X from this point of views

They have even copyrighted the term velocity architecture..is all custom and rebuilted,that's why there's the poprietary external storage

 

[assurdum]

Is this the first (somewhat) implementation of Kraken decompression?

I would also like to know if Xbox SX and the PS5 are running the exact same settings.

Honestly I don't notice particular difference in in this video

 

[phil_t98]

I don't think it's about duplicating assets. It has more to do with compression and then decompressing the data fast enough to send to the screen. PS5's core focus was on data handling and decompression via fast I/O and SSD, so I guess that effort is bearing fruits now.

In my guess, the devs were able to compress the data more efficiently on PS5 because its faster SSD, I/O, and dedicated decompressor units, can decompress that data quickly enough to send to the screen. (That's why there is no pop-ins either). And that's why PS5 version turned out to be a lower file size (because of more aggressive compression).

but doesn't the game load 0.3 seconds faster on Ps5 then Xbox SX?

 

[The Hamburglar]

Size wars . I assume it's duplicates?

Size queens are out there. Limp dicks need not apply.

 

[assurdum]

They have even copyrighted the term velocity architecture..is all custom and rebuilted,that's why there's the poprietary external storage

Isn't it velocity architecture practically a software data management? Yeah they putted the latest compression/decompression method on series X available in the market but again there aren't exactly as custom hardware part inside ps5.

 

[Negotiator101]

Honestly I don't notice particular difference in in this video

Shawdows looks slightly cleaner on Series X to my eye but nothing of note.

 

[martino]

I don't follow you...they dedicate the same times and resources on both

Probably not correctly worded....or i don't follow too
To be more precise this info has killed lazy port / cgn mode narratives.

 

[assurdum]

Shawdows looks slightly cleaner on Series X to my eye but nothing of note.

Like....no. Or at least it's hard to tell from this video. As I already said I only noticed lower resolution in the reflection in a metal basket on series X for the character, but far from to me to say it means something.

 

[phil_t98]

Honestly I don't notice particular difference in in this video

hard to tell on that video as you can see the compression artefacts in the dark areas and when its running, watched it at higher quality on YouTube to

does look very similar though

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Series X has not dedicated hardware for such stuff contrary to the ps5

Yes, in ps5 all the i/o complex has dedicated and/or custom hardware, even the SSD is custom i know that. But XSX, along with the software support (direct storage api) has also a dedicated hardware block, that i know for sure, and i think it's for decompression only (that's my dought) and could explain the compression file differences in this situation.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Nice achievement to make the game so small despite high quality graphics. I wish more devs tried that, even if later patches if it's not possible on launch.

 

[Heisenberg007]

They have even copyrighted the term velocity architecture..is all custom and rebuilted,that's why there's the poprietary external storage

Velocity Architecture is just an umbrella term for four components: two of them are hardware (the SSD and HW-based decompression that PS5 has a big advantage in) and the other 2 are software-based (DirectX 12 API that PCs also use, SFS which is somewhat like PS5's Coherency Engine and Memory controller).

I don't think it is doing anything unique, though I could be wrong.

 

[Negotiator101]

This is unfair, XSX is not a last minute quickly assembled console purely off the shelves.

Direct Storage is not even available as a beta API on PC and they built a console I/O system around it. They have a custom data decompressor unit in HW with custom texture unpacking logic (2-3:1 decompression ratio/throughput), ability to boost clock with SMT disabled, MS designed Audio DSP’s and security chips, etc... even the dual speed UMA memory setup is custom and they produced a massive GPU cluster. They invested in the SSD I/O solution a lot, but Sony invested more and made some more customisation in the GPU’s partially also to make up the lower CU count (also giving other benefits as it slowed them to pursue a higher clock... the two companies had different strategies).

Are you saying the Velocity Architecture is not being used as of now?

 

[Cherrypepsi]

It probably runs on high, rather than low on PS5, as we seen yesterday.

Yeah, no.

 

[assurdum]

Yes, in ps5 all the i/o complex has dedicated and/or custom hardware, even the SSD is custom i know that. But XSX, along with the software support (direct storage api) has also a dedicated hardware block, that i know for sure, and i think it's for decompression only (that's my dought) and could explain the compression file differences in this situation.

Yeah in practical. The hardware dedicate block on series X if I'm not wrong are nothing of particularly new, it's the classic decompression component, it's all about the velocity architecture which is not exactly an hardware custom solution.

 

[nikolino840]

Isn't it velocity architecture practically a software data management? Yeah they putted the latest compression/decompression method on series X available in the market but again there aren't exactly as custom hardware part inside ps5.

Is custom,of course compared to ps5 is less custom and more slow,but they have worked on,is not like put an ssd to my crappy pc

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

Interesting. Sounds like there are true benefits to the PS5 version though it is difficult to imagine such a disparity as Microsoft have also implemented decompression hardware in Series silicon. I guess it's possible this was a quick win on the PS5 version and would have taken too much time or difficulty on the Series version?

As a side I would like a little more transparency from developers as to which technologies have been implemented in each version. For example, the Series consoles have various RDNA2 features that are not implemented on the PS5 such as VRS, SFS, mesh shading etc. I wonder if we'll only ever see these features being utilised in exclusives. Still, kudos for the team in reducing file size so much on the PS5 version, I know which one I'm gonna go with on principle as these devs have got to make file sizes reduction more of a priority. With next gen IO, SSD, decompression hardware and Zen 2 cpu's there is no excuse anymore for something like COD at 200GB.

 

[kyliethicc]

Interesting that the Xbox SX version is larger than the size on PS4 Pro.

Control UE PS5 - 25 GB
Control UE PS4 - 39 GB
Control UE XSX - 42 GB

Seems like they had to use more duplicate files for XSX version due to the slower I/O. edit - wrong