ThunderForce IV had the coolest parallax I'd seen up to that point:
The gif doesn't even pan down to the lake?
c'mon man.
Cool visual effects in 16bit console games.
- Thread starter nkarafo
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The gif doesn't even pan down to the lake?
c'mon man.
nkarafo
Member
You are right but i only played the Genesis/Mega Drive version at the time and that doesn't have this particular effect
Still the superior version tho IMO
supermarioworldE
Banned
You forgot the best one; the crazy spliting effect in the last level; https://youtu.be/zLeVlsuf0vs?t=27m24s
Another good one. I probably subconsciously blocked out that segment out of frustation (damned Medusa heads).
IronicSonic
Member
Incredible examples all around but Im missing more Treasure stuff. Almost every boss in Gunstar or AS has a special effect in it
Sir Abacus
Member
The only thing worse than Medusa Heads are Medusa Heads you can't really tell exactly where they're at. Such a neat little trick, one of the things that makes Bloodlines my favorite Castlevania (which is really saying something considering how much I love the series).
Got you covered
You can see how there's a vertical gap just large enough that the game doesn't have to render both the upper clouds and lower water/mountains.
sin, the mathematical function. You feed it a value, and it gives you a value in return, that swings from -1 to 1 to back to -1 and so forth infinitely. Example:
Sin(1) = 0.8414709848
Sin(2) = 0.90929742682
Sin(3) = 0.14112000806
Sin(4) = -0.7568024953
Sin(5) = -0.95892427466
Sin(6) = -0.27941549819
Sin(7) = 0.65698659871
Sin(8) = 0.98935824662
Sin(9) = 0.41211848524
and so forth
This is because Sin is the Y height of a circle as you trace around the circle (where Cos is the X value... or I might have Y and X mixed up, doesn't really matter) like so:
This calculation cannot be done in the m68k processor of the genesis quickly enough (this is why Yoshi's Island uses a math co-processor for rotation of sprites) so, to fake it, they precalculated out Sin according to 255 radians (approximately a circle), and used the current value of Sin(X) as the offset for the pixels being drawn. So Row 1, at the top of the screen, is offset by Sin(1) which means they shift over a value similar to 0.8414709848 , while row 2 is offset by Sin(2) which means they shift over a value similar to 0.90929742682 and so forth. In actuality, to animate the rolling background, the value of the current row is also added to a figure that counts up as time goes forward, so the starting offset changes each frame.
Because of the way a unit circle works, you can get the values on the opposite side of the circle by negating the value of Sin. So, rather than store all the values of Sin from 0-255, they only stored 1/4 of the values and just multiply by negatives (which the genesis CPU can do quickly) to arrive at the correct values while only using 1/4 the rom space.
Windle Poons
Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
ThunderForce IV had the coolest parallax I'd seen up to that point:
I honestly preferred the effects in Thunderforce III, but IV was pretty cool too.
Septimus Prime
Member
I can't find an animated version of this, but throwing dudes at the screen in Turtles in Time was the best.
Sapiens
Member
sin, the mathematical function. You feed it a value, and it gives you a value in return, that swings from -1 to 1 to back to -1 and so forth infinitely. Example:
Sin(1) = 0.8414709848
Sin(2) = 0.90929742682
Sin(3) = 0.14112000806
Sin(4) = -0.7568024953
Sin(5) = -0.95892427466
Sin(6) = -0.27941549819
Sin(7) = 0.65698659871
Sin(8) = 0.98935824662
Sin(9) = 0.41211848524
and so forth
This is because Sin is the Y height of a circle as you trace around the circle (where Cos is the X value... or I might have Y and X mixed up, doesn't really matter) like so:
This calculation cannot be done in the m68k processor of the genesis quickly enough (this is why Yoshi's Island uses a math co-processor for rotation of sprites) so, to fake it, they precalculated out Sin according to 255 radians (approximately a circle), and used the current value of Sin(X) as the offset for the pixels being drawn. So Row 1, at the top of the screen, is offset by Sin(1) which means they shift over a value similar to 0.8414709848 , while row 2 is offset by Sin(2) which means they shift over a value similar to 0.90929742682 and so forth. In actuality, to animate the rolling background, the value of the current row is also added to a figure that counts up as time goes forward, so the starting offset changes each frame.
Because of the way a unit circle works, you can get the values on the opposite side of the circle by negating the value of Sin. So, rather than store all the values of Sin from 0-255, they only stored 1/4 of the values and just multiply by negatives (which the genesis CPU can do quickly) to arrive at the correct values while only using 1/4 the rom space.
That's so weird - I was just looking at that gif from my own google search (thanks to your post). Thx for the cool posts. Wish you didn't have a junior member tag.
nkarafo
Member
Panorama Cotton (Genesis) was probably the best looking sprite scaling game on 16bit, without the use of add ons like the Mega CD. But it's up there in quality:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufVi3aL6ol0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufVi3aL6ol0
You are right but i only played the Genesis/Mega Drive version at the time and that doesn't have this particular effect
Still the superior version tho IMO
That effect is pretty much the only thing the SNES EW has over the Genesis. Otherwise SNES version is kinda butchered and crappy.
Sin, Cosine, Tangent, ArcSin, ArcCos, and ArcTangent are probably the mathematical functions I use most when working with graphics. Those functions let you freely calculate and convert angles, vector lengths, etc.
Really important stuff for video game graphics. All that stuff is what people typically learn in trig.
I remember when kids would ask when we'd ever use this stuff. To me, this is the fun kind of math.
supermarioworldE
Banned
Seriously. Every level has some great effects, giving lots of visual variety. Bloodlines really shines in the aesthetics department.
nkarafo
Member
Another neat effect in Vectorman (that i can't find any footage of, not even a single pic) is some monitors in the background of some later levels. These monitors actually played a short animated loop of the boss IIRC. Imagine something like an animated gif playing in the monitors, in the background. It was pretty impressive and unique for a 16bit console.
Adventures of Batman & Robin is shock full of neat tricks
so the coolest thing about this right here is how they trick you into feeling like it's doing 4 independent line scroll segments of the screen at once, when it's really only ever doing 2 at the most. What happens is they count hblank interrupts until they get to the portion of the screen they want to work on, then line scroll that portion to create the perspective of the side of the building. There are 3 buildings, but you never go above the top building or below the bottom, so there are only 4 faces ever considered - the bottom face of the top building, the top or bottom face of the bottom building, and the top face of the bottom building. But because of the way the middle building is placed in the middle of the screen, you can't see both of its sides at once, and the roof portion of the middle building is just wide enough that you can't see both the top and bottom buildings at the same time.
floatstarpx
Member
Comix Zone! Especially this water!
Turk
Member
Red Zone on the Genesis did some impressive things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZKsQ09qOk4
Interiors wow:
https://youtu.be/FZKsQ09qOk4?t=7m49s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZKsQ09qOk4
Interiors wow:
https://youtu.be/FZKsQ09qOk4?t=7m49s
Felix Lighter
Member
Shinibo 3 had a lot of cool effects that impressed me but especially the enemies in background looping their way to the foreground was a really nice touch.
Comix Zone! Especially this water!
the water is the same sin wave scroll I commented on above that Thunder Force III uses.
Ecco the Dolphin uses the same effect also to create water:
sixteen-bit
Member
I loved looking at this room in Ranger-X
Freakin' Krejlooc dropping science and maths in this thread. Lovin' it, even if I don't understand all of it (it's been a while since I had a math lesson).
And the audio department (In terms of both music and sound fx; it was Michiru Yamane's first CV game, and the Genesis sound chip was perfect for the meaty 'thwomps' and light 'twinkles' you'd want in a Castelvania game). And the difficulty department (Hard, but not excessively so). And the replay-ability department (two characters with diverging routes). Hell, I even like that they went ahead and made a level in a relatively modern, industrial setting (a munitions factory), embracing the game's WW1-era setting.
The only thing I'm not crazy about in Bloodlines is the attempt to tie the Dracula novel to the Castlevania mythology... but in a weird way, it works, considering how much the series openly cribs from external sources.
I'll just link to my big post about it since I'm already kind of gushing; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102462932&postcount=65
And the audio department (In terms of both music and sound fx; it was Michiru Yamane's first CV game, and the Genesis sound chip was perfect for the meaty 'thwomps' and light 'twinkles' you'd want in a Castelvania game). And the difficulty department (Hard, but not excessively so). And the replay-ability department (two characters with diverging routes). Hell, I even like that they went ahead and made a level in a relatively modern, industrial setting (a munitions factory), embracing the game's WW1-era setting.
The only thing I'm not crazy about in Bloodlines is the attempt to tie the Dracula novel to the Castlevania mythology... but in a weird way, it works, considering how much the series openly cribs from external sources.
I'll just link to my big post about it since I'm already kind of gushing; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102462932&postcount=65
AtomicShroom
Member
The ship hold levels in DKC2 have always blown my mind. You've got a layer of water with a wave effect, whose surface is actually a dynamic parallax layer that goes both in front and back of the scenery. Meanwhile, in the background of all that, you have another layer of dynamic parallaxes that create the wooden floors/ceilings.
Can someone make a gif of going up/down those levels to show all the different parallaxes in action? It's quite amazing.
Technically the audio was kind of underwhelming for a Konami game. Doesn't even use any of the extra 4 PSG channels, which makes the arrangement more sparse than they otherwise would be. Compare the music to Rocket Knight Adventures which Yamane also worked on which does use the PSG, and it sounds so much richer.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
Yup. Especially how they incorporated it into the level design. Rocket Knight is easily one of the best 16 bit games made. So much creativity. Just jam packed with awesome ideasNot the best GIF, but Rocket Knight had these cool reflections.
Yeah there are a lot of cool effects in the games.
People forget Rare's history. They were much a demoscene-inspired studio.
supermarioworldE
Banned
Excellent writeup. And in complete agreement about the music. Yamane's tracks are lively, memorable, and just straight pumping. Really gets you in the mood to kick some ass.
Also Eric plays much better than John, but I do appreciate the variety regardless.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Couldn't find gifs of later levels, but I love that they captured the look of the show
blast processed
Member
Adventures of Batman & Robin is shock full of neat tricks
This game was created with black magic, so many cool effects going on.
Ah, i remember loving this particular effect.
Everytime the parrot changed direction the screen would flash as the flashlight was momentarily in your face.
I remember hearing that they removed this flash effect in the VC version or something?
Yea i have dkc 1 and 2 on wiiU VC, no lightflash on turns with the parrot and glimmer the angler fish, it stuck out cos i remember that effect so much from playin these to the death as a kid. Doesn't bother me that much but it was a cool effect.
nkarafo
Member
Meh, another reason i never bother with official emulation efforts.
AtomicShroom
Member
Ah, i remember loving this particular effect.
Everytime the parrot changed direction the screen would flash as the flashlight was momentarily in your face.
I remember hearing that they removed this flash effect in the VC version or something?
Yeah all VC games that had epilepsy dangers were edited to remove or heavily tone down bright/quick flashes.
Well i got em as part of some eshop offer that let me get trop freeze for cheaper if i had dkc games. It's weird, dkc is 60hz yet dkc2 is 50. Don't know what nintendo are at sometimes.
On topic: loving the gifs in this thread, lotta memories here!
You're right, though I'd say that it still sounds great in spite of all that.
The deck is stacked against the Belmont; Eric is faster, has longer reach, can attack in 7 directions from standing and his pole-vault is easier to use than the whip swing. Definitely the easier of the two options.
In my opinion, they should have given the whip the longer reach, stripped out all the standing diagonal attacks (jumping ones are alright though, given the added risk) and maybe given John a version of the spear twirl (in my mind, it would be a projectile-deflecting attack for both characters to give the game a defensive move).
Still a great game.
blast processed
Member
Vectorman
This entire boss battle is amazing.
mattwhite924
Member
As a kid this blew me away.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
It's amazing to this day and age.
dragonzdogma
Member
could someone help me figure out how they did the predator (movie) transparency effects
on the lawnmower man for the super nintendo game?
I always thought that effect was available only after the ps1- 2 era
eidt: cant find gif
on the lawnmower man for the super nintendo game?
I always thought that effect was available only after the ps1- 2 era
eidt: cant find gif
I wish someone had told me in high school, maybe I'd still have ended up an electrical engineer, but I wouldn't have ended up learning trig halfway through the degree
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