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Copa América Centenario |OT| featuring Messi, James, Suárez and $110 mil in bribes
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The Chosen One
Member
My turn for final thoughts:
1). Throughout the game I kept calling Michael Bradley trash. He's not trash. He has good field vision, can give well-weighted floaters, and he's pretty strong on defense. BUT... he has zero ability to maintain his pass accuracy in high pressure. This is why he looks great against low/moderate teams, but against elite competition he looks like trash. It's a pattern and Klinsmann (or whoever is the US coach) needs to see this and stop making him an automatic full-time player. He should not be playing 90 minutes against any team that's ranked higher than 20 in the Fifa rankings. It's just embarrassing to continually see him turn into a turnover-machine in big games.
2). Guzan is not our number one goal keeper. If he is, then he's the weakest #1 keeper for the US in 30 years. He's not a bad keeper but he doesn't come up with enough big saves to bail the defense out and he tends to make too many small mistakes. 2 out of the 4 goals, he definitely could have prevented. The free kick was tough, but I think an elite keeper should have been able to at least get a hand on it. If you look back at this whole tournament, Guzan only had one really good save and that was against Paraguay. I know Klinsmann hates players who take a vacation, which is why Tim Howard lost his starting spot. But Guzan also had a dreadful year at Aston Villa, so I don't think he was really in better form.
3). The tiny bits of Nagbe I saw tonight I liked, but clearly it was the wrong game and time to get thrown in. Klinsmann should have worked Nagbe in during the Costa Rica game when we had a huge lead, so Nagbe could get his sea-legs at this competition. Putting him in the last 15 minutes against Argentina was a waste. I would also argue that the half-time sub should have brought Nagbe in, instead of Pulisic. Pulisic should have been the one coming in the 75th minute. I definitely think Klinsmann didn't properly utilize those guys.
4). The biggest problem I see with our current USMNT is the coach and our midfield. I actually think our defense looked pretty good this tournament overall. The problem is we don't have a midfield that can play out of high pressure and then transition to offense. Our center midfielders and wingers just don't have the technique and composure and it kills us when we play elite teams. That's why I'm so big on Nagbe because he's able to maintain possession and move the ball around in tight spaces unlike the rest of our roster. I also don't understand why we snub guys like Ngyen, players in the midfield who actually possess some creativity. That's on the coach. You can't preach possession soccer and then not select players who are better suited for that style.Until we fix our midfield, we are going to keep getting results like this against elite teams.
5). I don't want a CONCACAF/CONMEBOL merge, I like our semi-guaranteed WC spot. But we definitely need to have a unified tournament for the Americas every 4 years prior to a WC. It will provide us a good measuring stick, so we can see our real progress instead of being sold snake oil. What's clear to me is that we're definitely still King's of CONCACAF and we're competitive with the lower tier and a few mid-level CONMEBOL teams. But there's still an ocean's wide gulf between us and the elite CONMEBOL and UEFA teams. The USA team we saw today is a second round WC team maaaybe a quarterfinal team with a favorable draw. But we simply can't stand on the same pitch as the elite teams, it's not even close. Unless we make some drastic changes, our realistic goal for Russia '18 is just to make the knockout rounds The same goal we had 25 years ago... In that sense, Klinsmann has failed so far. As others pointed out, Bob Bradley managed to achieve these same goals ten years ago. By this point, I expect us to still lose to Argentina and the greatest player to walk the planet. But we should be able to provide a competitive match, which we didn't and I think that's why there's so much disappointment over this loss.
1). Throughout the game I kept calling Michael Bradley trash. He's not trash. He has good field vision, can give well-weighted floaters, and he's pretty strong on defense. BUT... he has zero ability to maintain his pass accuracy in high pressure. This is why he looks great against low/moderate teams, but against elite competition he looks like trash. It's a pattern and Klinsmann (or whoever is the US coach) needs to see this and stop making him an automatic full-time player. He should not be playing 90 minutes against any team that's ranked higher than 20 in the Fifa rankings. It's just embarrassing to continually see him turn into a turnover-machine in big games.
2). Guzan is not our number one goal keeper. If he is, then he's the weakest #1 keeper for the US in 30 years. He's not a bad keeper but he doesn't come up with enough big saves to bail the defense out and he tends to make too many small mistakes. 2 out of the 4 goals, he definitely could have prevented. The free kick was tough, but I think an elite keeper should have been able to at least get a hand on it. If you look back at this whole tournament, Guzan only had one really good save and that was against Paraguay. I know Klinsmann hates players who take a vacation, which is why Tim Howard lost his starting spot. But Guzan also had a dreadful year at Aston Villa, so I don't think he was really in better form.
3). The tiny bits of Nagbe I saw tonight I liked, but clearly it was the wrong game and time to get thrown in. Klinsmann should have worked Nagbe in during the Costa Rica game when we had a huge lead, so Nagbe could get his sea-legs at this competition. Putting him in the last 15 minutes against Argentina was a waste. I would also argue that the half-time sub should have brought Nagbe in, instead of Pulisic. Pulisic should have been the one coming in the 75th minute. I definitely think Klinsmann didn't properly utilize those guys.
4). The biggest problem I see with our current USMNT is the coach and our midfield. I actually think our defense looked pretty good this tournament overall. The problem is we don't have a midfield that can play out of high pressure and then transition to offense. Our center midfielders and wingers just don't have the technique and composure and it kills us when we play elite teams. That's why I'm so big on Nagbe because he's able to maintain possession and move the ball around in tight spaces unlike the rest of our roster. I also don't understand why we snub guys like Ngyen, players in the midfield who actually possess some creativity. That's on the coach. You can't preach possession soccer and then not select players who are better suited for that style.Until we fix our midfield, we are going to keep getting results like this against elite teams.
5). I don't want a CONCACAF/CONMEBOL merge, I like our semi-guaranteed WC spot. But we definitely need to have a unified tournament for the Americas every 4 years prior to a WC. It will provide us a good measuring stick, so we can see our real progress instead of being sold snake oil. What's clear to me is that we're definitely still King's of CONCACAF and we're competitive with the lower tier and a few mid-level CONMEBOL teams. But there's still an ocean's wide gulf between us and the elite CONMEBOL and UEFA teams. The USA team we saw today is a second round WC team maaaybe a quarterfinal team with a favorable draw. But we simply can't stand on the same pitch as the elite teams, it's not even close. Unless we make some drastic changes, our realistic goal for Russia '18 is just to make the knockout rounds The same goal we had 25 years ago... In that sense, Klinsmann has failed so far. As others pointed out, Bob Bradley managed to achieve these same goals ten years ago. By this point, I expect us to still lose to Argentina and the greatest player to walk the planet. But we should be able to provide a competitive match, which we didn't and I think that's why there's so much disappointment over this loss.
I don't know where you guys have been for the last two world cup cycles, because Michael Bradley is one of the best midfielders we've ever had.
He had a bad game, true. Yes, we lost by a large margin, and did not look fit to be out there against Argentina.
Welcome to reality.
Michael Bradley is not the scapegoat.
Leading into this game the chemistry was centered around Bedoya, Jones, and Bradley in the midfield. Two out of the three were out. Up top we lost our work horse in Bobby Wood. He's been stretching out the field throughout the entire Copa.
That core was replaced against the best team in the entire world.
But, listen, even if we had our best out there, or Bradley had the game of his life, the result would've been the same, 7 out of 10 times.
You certainly hope for the best, but that's the reality.
There is no fix for this L. The cause isn't any one factor.
Take the fucking L.
He had a bad game, true. Yes, we lost by a large margin, and did not look fit to be out there against Argentina.
Welcome to reality.
Michael Bradley is not the scapegoat.
Leading into this game the chemistry was centered around Bedoya, Jones, and Bradley in the midfield. Two out of the three were out. Up top we lost our work horse in Bobby Wood. He's been stretching out the field throughout the entire Copa.
That core was replaced against the best team in the entire world.
But, listen, even if we had our best out there, or Bradley had the game of his life, the result would've been the same, 7 out of 10 times.
You certainly hope for the best, but that's the reality.
There is no fix for this L. The cause isn't any one factor.
Take the fucking L.
Stopped reading right there. I couldn't take the BS coming out of your ass..
anyways...man that messi goal was sick! Barely saw it few minutes ago..
Guzan jumped a bit too early otherwise he would've gotten that..
Also I just saw these stats..
.jesus...did the USA bunker fail? Not one shot at goal..at least they could've hoofed it and hope for the best.
.also birnbaum who the hell is that douche? Amateur night for him as Messi destroyed that guy for that foolish mistake and Bradley didn't even try to tackle it away nor mark his man, Higuain, which led to the 4th goal. Ball watchin mostly. Terrible.
Birdbomb is new to the USMNT.
He was put in to get experience along with Pulisic and Nagbe. Younger guys hopeful to be core players for the next cycle.
But, yeah he was ass.
CMojicaAce
Member
Jeez, Argentina has basically breezed to the final. Toughest match was their first one but after that it's been smooth sailing.
If they don't win a cup this time I don't think they'll ever win one with Messi in the squad..
If they don't win a cup this time I don't think they'll ever win one with Messi in the squad..
Thank god it's circled, I wouldn't have known where to look otherwise.
anyways...man that messi goal was sick! Barely saw it few minutes ago..
Guzan jumped a bit too early otherwise he would've gotten that..
Wasn't even close.
Perfection.gif*
Yeah the original was a full ss with lots of messages xD
The Chosen One
Member
Our midfield really was terrible. Just to give you an idea, here is the pass completion chart for our midfielders:
And for comparison here are Argentina's midfielder's pass completion chart...
And for comparison here are Argentina's midfielder's pass completion chart...
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
People are allowed to both realize the US isn't going to beat a team like Argentina, but also hope/expect them to have a somewhat decent showing and not just embarrass themselves. If the team plays like shit they are going to get called out for it, regardless of who they lose to.
Aceofspades
Banned
PeskyToaster
Member
Argentina played such a crisp game. It was such a difference between when Argentina had the ball and when the US did.
Also why post something in Spanish without a translation?
Also why post something in Spanish without a translation?
I don't know spanish
1- "Messi wasn't a Barcelona player? when did Argentina bought him?
2- "he can't be on both teams, what would happen if they play against each other? hes going for barca or Argentina?
Aceofspades
Banned
Roland_Gunner
Member
The only players you mention as possible replacements for Bradley are Nagbe and Nguyen. Neither player controls the ball or distributes as well as MB. If Klinsmann wanted to start either guy he should have taken out Zusi or Wondolowski and packed the midfield in more. That's why Bradley is a full-time starter, there's always two or three guys who should be moved out before you get to him. Its also why Sampdoria would like to bring him back to Seria A when all of our other midfielders and attackers, aside from a baby like Pulisic, are going to be in MLS for the rest of their careers.
Michael Bradley is overrated as fuck. He can't maintain composure with pressure and his forward balls while good lack the connectivity with the rest of the team that he's going to punt a long ball.
Overrated...As.... Fuck.
MegaSackman
Member
LSauchelli
Member
I believe it's a joke. Many Argentinians claim that Messi only cares about Barça, and that he doesn't even consider himself Argentinian, and would've preferred to be in the Spanish squad.Thanks
Also lol at her haha
Oh, and USA Today Sports doesn't know Messi's name:
It got some funny responses:
Edit: Meh, I'm probably way too late on this.
Agreed MB is overrated but currently he is the best option. Zusi and Wondo had no business being on the pitch last night. If the USMNT is to take the next step we need the next generation to step up in the next 2 years. Also, Fabian Johnson is wasted at LB.
Spuck-uk
Banned
There's a definite section of American fans that can't accept that the USA aren't a top team in every sport they play.
The absolute best thing that came out of that game was the footrace between Messi and Yedlin. Yedlin is fucking sonic yo
http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...si-victimized-deandre-yedlins-speed-copa-semi
http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...si-victimized-deandre-yedlins-speed-copa-semi
LSauchelli
Member
I was actually surprised by fans on the stadium, how they were clapping when the match ended. Any Latin American team would've gotten insulted and thrown stuff into oblivion.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Yedlin, Zardes, Bedoya, Brooks(til that fuck up last night) where big positives for the team this tournament in terms of "new" guys.
Yedlin actually ended the season well with Sunderland, momentum clearly carried.
But like I said before, Pulisic and Nagbe are alway better when they start, event at club level, it takes em quite a few minutes to get in to a flow.
and im still reeling over that Birnbaum incident smh
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
Man, he'd be Gareth Bale if he could actually play soccer.
No the point is, both Ecuador and Paraguay who we beat would've put up a much better fight against Argentina than we did last night. Argentina is a lot better, that's certainly true, but you want to see them compete at least.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Pulisic was bullied like he was in high school. he's got talent, but he cant hang out with the big boys just yet. He lost pretty much every physical battle. he needs to get a bit bigger.
Zardes was surprisingly good and at times the only U.s player actually trying. Brooks had a phenomenal tournament and was easily our best player. Yedlin got that red card like a fucking idiot so he has a lot to learn, and i feel like Bedoya is being mishandled by Klinsmann.
Bradley is talented,but he's been pure shite since the world cup. He gives away way too many balls. It's time to part ways with him. though i dont know who can replace him.
Cornballer
Member
Failure analysis and hot takes:
- MLS Analyst: No plan & plenty of pain as Argentina throttle US 4-0
- Sciaretta for ASN: Poor Lineup Choices Put U.S. Men in Difficult Position
- Grant Wahl: Messi, Argentina prove to be in class above USA with Copa trouncing
- Brian Straus: USA learns place on global stage during Copa America semifinal run
- Doug McIntyre: U.S. domination by Argentina in Copa semi will take time to get over
- L eander Schaerlaeckens: A look at the big picture of USMNT after lopsided loss to Argentina
EDIT: Bonus hilarity from across the pond:
- The Independent: Why England should chase Jurgen Klinsmann to take over from Roy Hodgson
- MLS Analyst: No plan & plenty of pain as Argentina throttle US 4-0
- Sciaretta for ASN: Poor Lineup Choices Put U.S. Men in Difficult Position
- Grant Wahl: Messi, Argentina prove to be in class above USA with Copa trouncing
- Brian Straus: USA learns place on global stage during Copa America semifinal run
- Doug McIntyre: U.S. domination by Argentina in Copa semi will take time to get over
- L eander Schaerlaeckens: A look at the big picture of USMNT after lopsided loss to Argentina
EDIT: Bonus hilarity from across the pond:
- The Independent: Why England should chase Jurgen Klinsmann to take over from Roy Hodgson
Cornballer
Member
A few thoughts....
- I don't like third place games in any of these competitions, and I wish they'd get rid of them. That being said, Saturday is a decent opportunity to give some of the younger players more reps. I hope Pulisic, Nagbe, Wood, and a few others get a look.
- The backline has played well most of the tournament. Last night obviously didn't go well, but most of the goals were from errors in the midfield and an inability to deal with the press. I think the Yedlin - Cameron - Brooks - Johnson backline is something that the US can build on, though it'd be nice if they found an alternative left back so Johnson can play higher on the field.
- Bradley's passing has been erratic this tournament. I think he's done a solid job as a strict d-mid (with Jones in front of him), but his short passing out of pressure has put the US into a bunch of bad spots. His longer passing down the flanks has been fine. Playing as a double pivot with Beckerman didn't work last night. Seems like the US has been better with a single player sitting in front of the two centerbacks rather than shared responsibility.
- Jones and Bedoya were missed as a couple of senior players that have been in big matches before. They make mistakes, but I think they have a certain amount of grit and determination when faced with adversity that was sorely missed last night. Beckerman and Zusi work hard, but they looked over matched at this level.
- All things considered, Zardes did well last night. His first touch is always going to be a bit maddening, but he can do things with his strength and speed that are valuable to the team. Dempsey didn't see much of the ball and he struggles up top without either a target man or a runner to play off of. The Wondo gambit was disastrous.
- I don't see the USMNT's overall tournament as a failure, but it's disheartening to go out like this. It's frustrating that the player pool has some good options right now, but Klinsmann again threw out a strange lineup that wasn't prepared for the situation tactically or in terms of player roles. The lineup wasn't able to do anything effectively: defend, press, possess and control the ball, provide an outlet high up the field, counter at speed, etc... Some of that is down to Argentina, but the lineup was such a mishmash that it didn't give the players any opportunity to succeed.
- I don't like third place games in any of these competitions, and I wish they'd get rid of them. That being said, Saturday is a decent opportunity to give some of the younger players more reps. I hope Pulisic, Nagbe, Wood, and a few others get a look.
- The backline has played well most of the tournament. Last night obviously didn't go well, but most of the goals were from errors in the midfield and an inability to deal with the press. I think the Yedlin - Cameron - Brooks - Johnson backline is something that the US can build on, though it'd be nice if they found an alternative left back so Johnson can play higher on the field.
- Bradley's passing has been erratic this tournament. I think he's done a solid job as a strict d-mid (with Jones in front of him), but his short passing out of pressure has put the US into a bunch of bad spots. His longer passing down the flanks has been fine. Playing as a double pivot with Beckerman didn't work last night. Seems like the US has been better with a single player sitting in front of the two centerbacks rather than shared responsibility.
- Jones and Bedoya were missed as a couple of senior players that have been in big matches before. They make mistakes, but I think they have a certain amount of grit and determination when faced with adversity that was sorely missed last night. Beckerman and Zusi work hard, but they looked over matched at this level.
- All things considered, Zardes did well last night. His first touch is always going to be a bit maddening, but he can do things with his strength and speed that are valuable to the team. Dempsey didn't see much of the ball and he struggles up top without either a target man or a runner to play off of. The Wondo gambit was disastrous.
- I don't see the USMNT's overall tournament as a failure, but it's disheartening to go out like this. It's frustrating that the player pool has some good options right now, but Klinsmann again threw out a strange lineup that wasn't prepared for the situation tactically or in terms of player roles. The lineup wasn't able to do anything effectively: defend, press, possess and control the ball, provide an outlet high up the field, counter at speed, etc... Some of that is down to Argentina, but the lineup was such a mishmash that it didn't give the players any opportunity to succeed.
I just don't understand the US press when it comes to analyzing these games and that includes our experts who played the game at high levels. It is amazing to hear crap like "they just didn't have the heart!" or "their mindset wasn't strong enough!" as that obscures the bigger problem and also diminishes the sport.
Would basketball experts criticize Duke or North Carolina for losing to the Cavs or Warriors? Of course not because it is understood that there is a massive talent and experience disparity. NC or Duke wouldn't not win because they don't show enough heart but because they simply aren't as good. Thinking that soccer is different than that is foolish and diminishes the incredible players around the world as it alludes to the fact that they are the best just because they want it more. Is there a single player on the US who could start for Argentina? The answer to that question explains the outcome of this game.
The simple reality hasn't changed in, well, forever. This game wasn't really better than the game we glorified the US players for against Belgium in the last world cup where Tim Howard had to save like a million shots. That game could easily have been 5-0 and, like this game, we couldn't string together more than 3 passes before being dispossessed. That is embarrassing and a direct indictment on how we develop players. Until the US wakes up to the fact that our youth development system is 3rd tier these results will continue as will the hand-wringing about how we didn't play the right players and they didn't play with enough fervor. We need to understand that until things change, these players are simply not good enough to compete with the big boys. At the present time it is JV playing against varsity with people complaining about how JV isn't competitive.
Would basketball experts criticize Duke or North Carolina for losing to the Cavs or Warriors? Of course not because it is understood that there is a massive talent and experience disparity. NC or Duke wouldn't not win because they don't show enough heart but because they simply aren't as good. Thinking that soccer is different than that is foolish and diminishes the incredible players around the world as it alludes to the fact that they are the best just because they want it more. Is there a single player on the US who could start for Argentina? The answer to that question explains the outcome of this game.
The simple reality hasn't changed in, well, forever. This game wasn't really better than the game we glorified the US players for against Belgium in the last world cup where Tim Howard had to save like a million shots. That game could easily have been 5-0 and, like this game, we couldn't string together more than 3 passes before being dispossessed. That is embarrassing and a direct indictment on how we develop players. Until the US wakes up to the fact that our youth development system is 3rd tier these results will continue as will the hand-wringing about how we didn't play the right players and they didn't play with enough fervor. We need to understand that until things change, these players are simply not good enough to compete with the big boys. At the present time it is JV playing against varsity with people complaining about how JV isn't competitive.
Frankly, I think this article is spot on.
http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...america-loss-argentina-nothing-do-intangibles
It should have been supremely obvious at the half that we had no ability to get the ball through the midfield and into transition, and yet the player best suited to alleviate that problem was sitting on the bench until the last 12 minutes or so of the match. Ridiculous.
I too, hope that the younger dudes get a crack at the 3rd place game.
http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...america-loss-argentina-nothing-do-intangibles
It should have been supremely obvious at the half that we had no ability to get the ball through the midfield and into transition, and yet the player best suited to alleviate that problem was sitting on the bench until the last 12 minutes or so of the match. Ridiculous.
I too, hope that the younger dudes get a crack at the 3rd place game.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
It's because general understanding of the game is so lacking that these so-called "experts" can get away with commentary like that. You see the level of sophistication in the discourse around baseball and basketball in sports media, then compare it to soccer. It's night and day.
EDIT: Like, I don't think I've ever heard a single pundit ever explain the nuances between playing the same ball winning midfielder in a 4-4-2 vs. a 4-3-3. I mean, I know what the difference is because I watch more soccer than is healthy. But how do you expect the casual audience to ever figure that out?
Alex_Mexico
Member
I believe it's a joke. Many Argentinians claim that Messi only cares about Barça, and that he doesn't even consider himself Argentinian, and would've preferred to be in the Spanish squad.
Oh, and USA Today Sports doesn't know Messi's name:
It got some funny responses:
Edit: Meh, I'm probably way too late on this.
Thats embarrasing.
Just when I think soccer has grown enough out comes a major newspaper that doesnt know the name of the greatest soccer player in the world.
They've already recognized the problems at the youth level and have been actively working to fix them for 5-10 years now. It will obviously take a generation or two before those efforts begin to bear fruit.
Nah. Most television analysis in the US is similarly as shallow. Even in quintessential American sports like baseball and football. You have to go online to find actual tactical and strategic breakdowns of the game, just as you do with soccer.
We're already seeing parts of that bear fruit, guys like Miazga and Morris have come out of the academies and are performing well along with others. Next cycle is probably where we'll start to really see more and more players come out of the academies.
Yup. Speaking of Morris, sure would have been nice to have someone with his pace out there stretching Argentina's backline last night, eh?
Klinsmann's roster and lineup selections are a big part of the problem. We do have actual talented, technically gifted players that can do things offensively. But they rarely see the field for the Nats because Klinsmann rates the steady veteran players over them. And I get it, a big game like this you need some steady vets. But isn't that what Bradley, Dempsey, Cameron are there to provide? The entire roster shouldn't be experienced veterans that lack the athleticism and quality you need to match up with a team like Argentina.
That's what frustrates me the most about Klinsmann. He talks a big game about creating an identity of creative, attacking football. But his roster and lineup selections are the complete opposite of building that identity. It's confounding.
To be fair if you are playing in the semi-final game of a major tournament you want as much experience on the pitch as possible because a single mistake can cost you the game. It also does not help that he is caught between a rock and hard place. He wants to give youth a chance but we just don't have enough guys (in particular) young guys getting consistent FIRST TEAM action in the top leagues. That said, the starting lineup that took the pitch last night against Argentina had no chance from the get go. Klinsmann is too conservative.
uncredited male
Member
I have no idea what to expect from the other semifinal game.
Klinsmann always talks this aggressive total football approach but then we pack it in against superior teams. I don't know if it is tactical ignorance on his part or if he just does not give a shit about what he says to the media.
I think Bradley's issues stem from multiple things. Not playing at a higher club level than before, the foot injury, and being put in the primary playmaker role. He passes well with time and space but good teams are not going to give him that. Donovan and Dempsey are not there or able to take that pressure off him anymore so we get what we see.
Klinsmann always talks this aggressive total football approach but then we pack it in against superior teams. I don't know if it is tactical ignorance on his part or if he just does not give a shit about what he says to the media.
I think Bradley's issues stem from multiple things. Not playing at a higher club level than before, the foot injury, and being put in the primary playmaker role. He passes well with time and space but good teams are not going to give him that. Donovan and Dempsey are not there or able to take that pressure off him anymore so we get what we see.
I find that this article also misses the point almost entirely as well. While I agree that it isn't about the intangibles, this article claims that we lost because we played a sub-optimal lineup and didn't get our strategy right. Bullshit. Soccer pundits need to wake up and realize our players are not nearly as good. Again, not a single player on the US team could start for Argentina and even that understates the gap between the quality on these two teams.
We need to completely change our system of development or the beatings will continue. This isn't a sexy short term fix that can be solved by crap like "Nagbe should have started!" but something that requires we look deeply into our approach and culture around youth sports and development.
You think soccer pundits don't know this? You think US Soccer doesn't know this? They do. Which is why changes to the youth system have already been implemented. Time will tell whether they were the right changes or not, but you can't use this game as a barometer for that. It's still too early.
And really a post-match analysis article is not the time you should be expounding on the problems with US soccer culture and/or its youth development. You should be talking about the match itself and how the US could have performed better given the roster they had. Which is what the writer did.
uncredited male
Member
Bobby Wood's emergence has been a big plus. If Altidore can find his elusive form we have some weapons.
shoplifter
Member
uncredited male
Member
He is good for one year a cycle so we have a 50% chance.
Yes they are working to fix the problems, but as someone who is pretty involved in youth soccer, the changes aren't happening fast enough or widely enough to have much impact for many years. Our American culture of "winning!" when our kids are like 7-10 years old means that the vast majority of our early development programs are spent booting a ball forward as far as possible to our best player (usually just the most aggressive with the biggest strike) who then has to win it against a couple defenders who make catastrophic mistakes (of course they will...they are super young) before that designated "best player" rips off a huge shot to score. Parents and coaches pat themselves on the back and tell each other what a marvelous job they are doing and what a great team they have.
Our academies (which don't seem to follow a singular philosophy) aren't really getting ahold of players until they are like 12+ at which point the culture has weeded out the kids who might have been smaller, less aggressive and, perhaps, more technically skilled and creative. Technical skill and creatively don't win those incredibly important youth games when you are 9 years old you know? I don't know if an American Messi wouldn't be cast aside by our current system and cultural priorities.
Our inability to play technically and use space and movement both on and off the ball is directly tied to this (lack of) early development and mental mindset. We can't possess because we don't grow up with that mindset. Not being able to string together 3 passes against top flight competition is the direct result of it. Yes we can be "scrappy" and earn occasional results against second or third tier international competition but, as it stands now, we will never gain ground on the top tier teams. Playing different lineups or using different formations has nothing to do with it.
You're right. But part of Klinsmann's job is to get some of our more talented, younger players ready for a game like this. By playing them in friendlies and earlier in the tournament. Instead he uses friendlies as a time to just try out random formations, playing players out of position, etc. instead of developing a coherent system and finding talented players that fit that system.
Besides, if the end goal is to have a competitive team ready for the 2018 World Cup, isn't the 2016 Copa America a perfect opportunity to get some of your younger players some valuable experience against top-level competition? Instead we trot out Beckerman and Wondolowski, two guys who shouldn't even get a sniff of the 2018 WC roster. Our starting lineup in this competition was basically the same as it was in Brazil two years ago, despite guys like Dempsey and Jones likely being too old to really rely on in Russia. That's not how you build for the future.
So the soccer intelligencia are decrying why we could have done better and only lost 4-1? Perhaps, but they aren't framing it that way...they make it sound like we could take meaningful steps to actually be realistically competitive. We can't.
Agreed.
Beckerman, Wondo and Zusi offered nothing yesterday and to be frank they should not be on the team let alone start. However, Klinsmann keeps them around because of their experience. Also, our inability to find a decent LB to allow FJ to play further up-field is maddening. The 2018 WC roster hopefully will look very different and some of the youth players will be introduced in the starting lineup.
Greece won Euro 2004 with a team that was not much better than the US going forward. Tournament play rewards well organized teams and a bit of luck. The early goal buried us yesterday and the Messi free kick sealed it.
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