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[Vyer]

Even if there wasn't any racist 'intent', it still would display a lack of empathy or an ignorance on the subject. Neither are really ok.

Look, despite all the technicalities or loopholes or other ways people will try to excuse it, darkening your face to play dress up can serve as a reminder/symbol of a terrible, horrifying, dehumanizing and oppressive time for a race of people.

For me, that would seem like enough reason to try not to do it.

 

[Camp Lo]

I think you should since you still haven't explained how its offensive.

It's been explained several times in this thread. At the very least within the last page or so. Shrug.

 

[boiled goose]

Looks like she was genuinely trying to look like the character rather than be a ccaricature. Not racist ... for now. Still insensitive and perhaps not very smart given the history of blackface.

This is different from thr celebrity that went as thr girl from orange is the new black. There,she still had blonde hair and green eyes and only ddarkened her face.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I liked it. Nose piece is awful, tho.

 

[Sai-kun]

Some people really need to look up the definition of words they throw around. She wasn't being racist, being racist means being prejudice or discriminatory towards someone due to their race. At what point did she do that? She was trying to faithfully recreate a character. Sure it may be in bad taste, but that's mainly because of the world we live in and our history.[/b{

So...maybe people should avoid it then? We don't look at things like this with no context/inside a vacuum.

 

[Malyse]

She didnt do blackface, so all is well. Blackface != respectful recreation of a black character.

😒

DreamDrop is fucking out.

 

[Mikeside]

Fine, I'll be agressive-agressive

Blackface being offensive=tattoos being antisemitic? tattoos existed way before Nazis tattooed people during the Holocaust and do not only stand for oppression

Ignoring the character's skin color is shuffling her blackness under the rug? No, people do it all the time and no one is upset

Depictions of black characters in old cartoons mean we shouldn't allow black characters in modern cartoons? Nothing says the modern depictions are or have to be racist

bad analogies

In the same way, I would say that colouring her skin to match the character she's cosplaying doesn't have to be racist. It's not like she's dancing around as Michone going "AW LAWDE DEM ZOMBIES GONNA GIT US" with white patches for her eyes and massive red lips, it's a realistic portrayal of the character.

If you can't see that as completely different, then I'm not sure we're even speaking the same language.

I get that the style and intent of someone painting their face black as part of cosplay is completely different from blackface.

However, a white person painting their face black was a very prominent part of blackface, the act of painting their face black and "playing" a black person was insulting. That is much more similar than someone getting a tattoo is to people in concentration camps getting a tattoo.

I don't think this is racism, but your comparisons make no sense at all.

Also, black characters in cartoons itself weren't racist, it was the treatment of those characters, so that is why we don't mind black characters in cartoons now.

OK I see that the comparisons aren't perfect, but I think they still highlight the fact that yes, the person is painting their skin black, but they're doing it (or at least attempting to) in a realistic fashion, not the jokey caricature seen in historical blackface. They're also doing it with completely different intent. I don't see any reason to take offense to this other than because there are a lot of people (especially on the internet) who seem to revel in taking offense to innocuous acts.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

All thst black heimdall hate says otherwise.

That's actually the complete opposite. That was changing the race of a character (Not that anyone should have gotten anyone mad at that either), this is a person changing their race to further emulate the race the character already is.

Your analogy would have worked if people got mad about Idris Elba putting on white face to play Heimdall.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Ultimately, I think it's important to take context and intentions in mind. I totally understand how some people perceive this as blackface, just as I understand people who don't consider it blackface.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

I don't cosplay or know any cosplayers but it seems to me that a lot of people think you should achieve the most accurate portrayal of a character even though that is inherently impossible.

Idk, I put the craft of making an accurate costume over the person who is wearing the costume. Cosplay wouldn't be half as interesting if your not allowed to cosplay as a character whose not your sex, race, height, weight, or age. Then we wouldn't have awesome cosplay like this:

So why do something as disgusting as blackface in some attempt to enhance our cosplay?

Me too, totally agreed... the fact that these guys DIDN'T change their gender or race portrayal but by contrast still had ultra realistic, well crafted costumes is what makes them so awesome.

If the guy on the right had shitty "light skin" foundation slathered all over him, it would take away from how awesome the costume is. It would totally ruin his presentation. And yeah, part of the costume choice is for comedic effect, but it would be even more true if he was say, dressed as Link.

In fact, oddly enough, I think these guys make a pretty good argument as to why the cosplayer in the OP should've dome the costume without the blackface. An argument that is aside from historical and sensitivity concerns: quality costumes with the twist that the person wearing them is of a different ethnicity, gender, age, etc make for a much more notable portrayal. Kind of like fan art drawn in styles that are atypical for the IP (realistic Powerpuff Girls for example). Exceptionally well crafted black Link, or an older person with a grey beard as Link, or female Link, etc, would simply be more memorable than an equally well done costume worn by someone of Link's typical gender age and ethnicity.

Which is exactly why she shouldn't have used the makeup in the OP. (Plus, of course, all the far more legitimate historical reasons. But this is my reasoning from a purely aesthetic perspective.)

 

[captive]

The meaning behind words aren't static, they're dynamic. They evolve alongside the realities of a shifting society.

so just painting your face black, regardless of intentions is racist?


Thats a bunch of bullshit. Blackface is a specific style of painting your face black with the sole purpose of mocking and disparaging black people.

What she did is perfectly fine and I think anyone that has a problem is being too politically correct.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

In the same way, I would say that colouring her skin to match the character she's cosplaying doesn't have to be racist. It's not like she's dancing around as Michone going "AW LAWDE DEM ZOMBIES GONNA GIT US" with white patches for her eyes and massive red lips, it's a realistic portrayal of the character.

If you can't see that as completely different, then I'm not sure we're even speaking the same language.

This makes it obvious you haven't read any of my posts that weren't addressing you specifically

 

[Alucrid]

so just painting your face black, regardless of intentions is racist?


Thats a bunch of bullshit. Blackface is a specific style of painting your face black with the sole purpose of mocking and disparaging black people.

What she did is perfectly fine and I think anyone that has a problem is being too politically correct.

is this blackface enough or is she just trying to emulate a popular and much beloved rapper? can i get a scale on what is and isn't blackface over here so i'm not too politically correct for you

 

[Carl]

I'm black and if I want to go out for Halloween as Thor, I'd put on a blonde wig, armor, hammer. But changing my skin color? Why the fuck would I do that? I'm dressed like Thor! I'm not trying to be him.

Sure, you don't have to. But if you did then it wouldn't be racist.

 

[Two Words]

Short answer? Yes.

That being a hard rule is absurd, frankly. People darkening their skin to cosplay in a respectable manner are harming nobody. It's completely unfair to tell them they can't do something so innocent all because racists a century ago did black face in an actually racist manner. What if a white guy is a huge James Brown fan and wants to cosplay him right? What if he does a good job nailing the James Brown look? Why is that offensive?

 

[Ludovico]

This person thought the skin tone was an important enough aspect of the character to paint her own face black. Whatever her intent, it reflects a racist value.

Wanting to accurately rep a strong, female, minority character - yep, textbook prejudice.

I say it's not racist. Ignorant, maybe, but definitely not hateful.

 

[maniac-kun]

You have to know that the concept of blackface is non existant in Germany. So she couldnt know that this pisses off some people on the other end of the ocean.

 

[Jeffolation]

Dear fellow white people, please just stick to purple, blue and green face paints. Many of you may never truly understand why we can't use the other colours but for the love of god, just let this one insignificant (to us) thing go.

 

[bishoptl]

BTW, I don't think this necessarily came from a bad place. You can be ignorant of something without being racist - and I'd generally be more forgiving. That said, if you choose to double down, do so at your peril.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

This was a respectful tribute to one of her favorite characters, who happens to be a different race than her.

took out the "black people problems" qualifier huh

 

[Alucrid]

That being a hard rule is absurd, frankly. People darkening their skin to cosplay in a respectable manner are harming nobody. It's completely unfair to tell them they can't do something so innocent all because racists a century ago did black face in an actually racist manner. What if a white guy is a huge James Brown fan and wants to cosplay him right? What if he does a good job nailing the James Brown look? Why is that offensive?

new flash

people still use blackface in a derogatory manner in 2014

 

[bishoptl]

That being a hard rule is absurd, frankly. People darkening their skin to cosplay in a respectable manner are harming nobody. It's completely unfair to tell them they can't do something so innocent all because racists a century ago did black face in an actually racist manner. What if a white guy is a huge James Brown fan and wants to cosplay him right? What if he does a good job nailing the James Brown look? Why is that offensive?

Time to "play guess the race"!

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

As a black man, I thought her cosplay was very good.

She probably could have gone w/o the nose prosthetics, but I think she did a good job.
I don't feel her attempt at dressing as a black character was at all racist or offensive.
Lots of attention to detail when it comes to color shading and making it look natural.

I think her attempt was very tastefully done and even though I didn't read past the first 15-20 replies in this thread, I think the "racist" and "blackface" comments are either sarcastic or over sensitive.

 

[Two Words]

Time to "play guess the race"!

Black.

 

[Sai-kun]

That being a hard rule is absurd, frankly. People darkening their skin to cosplay in a respectable manner are harming nobody. It's completely unfair to tell them they can't do something so innocent all because racists a century ago did black face in an actually racist manner. What if a white guy is a huge James Brown fan and wants to cosplay him right? What if he does a good job nailing the James Brown look? Why is that offensive?

Did you read this thread? You have to know that the bolder just isn't true. If it wasn't harming anyone, this thread wouldn't even exist.

 

[DY_nasty]

Even if there wasn't any racist 'intent', it still would display a lack of empathy or an ignorance on the subject. Neither are really ok.

Look, despite all the technicalities or loopholes or other ways people will try to excuse it, darkening your face to play dress up can serve as a reminder/symbol of a terrible, horrifying, dehumanizing and oppressive time for a race of people.

For me, that would seem like enough reason to try not to do it.

Cosplay is more important than all of that.

Clearly.

And ignorance does translate to racism as well. You don't have to actually hate someone to be racist.

 

[robotzombie]

Please find me examples of minorities defending their racist behavior online.

Wouldn't you with this exact statement be an example?

 

[Mesousa]

You have to know that the concept of blackface is non existant in Germany. So she couldnt know that this pisses off some people on the other end of the ocean.

Except it isn't
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface#Germany

 

[Samara]

I am not offended by this, but I understand why people would be. I can't cosplay as a white female or if I wanted I could just not put lotion on myself.... but that's something I always do so....As if I wanted to cosplay as Crazy eyes, Id put a darker skin tone on myself, (see avatar) , going 'tanner' looks more beliveable, but if I wanted Cinderella, that would have looked just terrible


If it's not red mouth and charcoal black, and like she did a soft brown, I dont see the harm in it.

 

[Camp Lo]

Me too... the fact that these guys DIDN'T change their gender or race portrayal but by contrast still had ultra realistic, well crafted costumes is what makes them so awesome.

If the guy on the right had shitty "light skin" foundation slathered all over him, it would take away from how awesome the costume is.It would totally ruin his presentation. And yeah, part of the costume choice is for comedic effect, but it would be even more true if he was say, dressed as Link.

This is exactly my point. If you're making a half assed attempt at cosplaying, it's like your painting your skin as a crutch. "No one would know who I was unless I darkened/lightened my skin."

All other aspects of your costume should scream who you're cosplaying, not your fake skin color.

 

[Two Words]

new flash

people still use blackface in a derogatory manner in 2014

Yes, and it is absolutely nothing like what she did. She wasn't stereotyping a people. She was trying to look more like a character in a way I believe is respectable.

 

[frankie_baby]

How about if a white person wears a mask of a black person as part of their costume of them, is that not supposed to be acceptable either?

 

[trixx]

what the hell is this... the nose come on man.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

How about if a white person wears a mask of a black person as part of their costume of them, is that not supposed to be acceptable either?

You mean in the vein of Nixon masks?

 

[boiled goose]

Thinking about this further... if a black person made themselves look lighter and wore nose prosthetics to portray a white person... im betting most people would think it is weird or offensive.

Or not?

I guess ultimately it is focusing on the characters race and skintone as the defining characteristics, which is perhaps somewhat ,
"Racist".

 

[Two Words]

Did you read this thread? You have to know that the bolder just isn't true. If it wasn't harming anyone, this thread wouldn't even exist.

You know what I mean by that. People harmed by this are simply taking the wrong attitude about this. Blackface is absolutely wrong in the context blackface is typically discussed. Whatever it is she's doing, if you want to call it blackface or not, it in no way fits the typical context or intent of blackface.

 

[Camp Lo]

How about if a white person wears a mask of a black person as part of their costume of them, is that not supposed to be acceptable either?

Your scenario is so wildly vague it would be hard to tell. Who is the mask of? How does the rest of the costume look?

 

[frankie_baby]

You mean in the vein of Nixon masks?

Yeah

 

[kamorra]

Thinking about this further... if a black person made themselves look lighter and wore nose prosthetics to portray a white person... im betting most people would think it is weird or offensive.

Or not?

No? Why should I think that this would be weird or offensive?

 

[AkuMifune]

That being a hard rule is absurd, frankly. People darkening their skin to cosplay in a respectable manner are harming nobody. It's completely unfair to tell them they can't do something so innocent all because racists a century ago did black face in an actually racist manner. What if a white guy is a huge James Brown fan and wants to cosplay him right? What if he does a good job nailing the James Brown look? Why is that offensive?

Because we exist in a society where white people painted their faces to mock black people under the banner of comedy for years.

Not everyone who paints their face black is being racist, but there's still a huge stigma attached to it because of all the shit Al Jolson did years ago. Is it fair? Is she racist? No, but anyone who does it hits a nerve that still runs through our culture that we aren't ready to deal with yet, especially not as a costume, respectful or not. It's ignorant in that context and I'm surprised how many are in denial about it. We don't exist in a bubble, we're part of an evolving society and should be more sensitive to where we came from and what happened before.

 

[frankie_baby]

Your scenario is so wildly vague it would be hard to tell. Who is the mask of? How does the rest of the costume look?

Does it matter, I'm talking about the principal here

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Yeah

I doubt that's considered blackface by anyone.
I mean, there are Obama masks sold and I haven't heard of much of an outcry regarding them.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

is this blackface enough or is she just trying to emulate a popular and much beloved rapper? can i get a scale on what is and isn't blackface over here so i'm not too politically correct for you

See, everyone who's confused about the issue needs to see this post. This is modern blackface.

 

[Two Words]

This is exactly my point. If you're making a half assed attempt at cosplaying, it's like your painting your skin as a crutch. "No one would know who I was unless I darkened/lightened my skin."

All other aspects of your costume should scream who you're cosplaying, not your fake skin color.

All that really means to me is if you are going to change your skin color, do it well. I agree with that.

 

[Camp Lo]

Does it matter, I'm talking about the principal here

So Obama mask with suit and tie on? Are you putting shitty foundation on your extremities to hide your skin color for reasons?

 

[Vyer]

Cosplay is more important than all of that.

Clearly.

And ignorance does translate to racism as well. You don't have to actually hate someone to be racist.

for sure. just saying 'intent' is being used as some sort of boundary in here when really it isn't.

 

[RukusProvider]

Yes, and it is absolutely nothing like what she did. She wasn't stereotyping a people. She was trying to look more like a character in a way I believe is respectable.

You bring up an interesting point.

Plenty of gaffers were going nuts over Bale playing Moses in Exodus because he's too white to play an Egyptian.

I wonder if Bale was darkened up for the movie would this group be more or less offended than keeping him as white while playing Moses.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

so, cosplaying as a female character or crossdressing is a blatant proof of misogyny and deserve death?

There is a crossdressing thread on gaf that you should search and read up on. :/

This is exactly my point. If you're making a half assed attempt at cosplaying, it's like your painting your skin as a crutch. "No one would know who I was unless I darkened/lightened my skin."

All other aspects of your costume should scream who you're cosplaying, not your fake skin color.

Bingo.

If she didn't paint her skin, then nobody would have recognized her? Say word? Like there are other dread-headed, black, katana wielding, zombie slave having, females on tv at the current moment. I might have seen one on Grey's Anatomy, or maybe Scandal? How to get away with murder? No?

If you don't think it was racist, then can you at least see why some would have a problem with it?

 

[frankie_baby]

I doubt that's considered blackface by anyone.
I mean, there are Obama masks sold and I haven't heard of much of an outcry regarding them.

So then why should making your own "mask" from make up be a problem

 

[SimpleGamer]

Lol these black face threads repeat themselves every time. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=845876