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Court: Baker who refused to make gay wedding cake can't cite beliefs
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
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That's ok, but you'll be forced to close shop.
Blacks not served here! Sorry that's been done before. :/
Blacks not served here! Sorry that's been done before. :/
xKilltheMx
Member
The sooner we stop letting religion dictate our laws the better.
Also..this:
Is why black people werent allowed to eat in the same places as white people just 60 years ago.
So no, you better serve everybody equally or serve nobody at all.
Also..this:
Is why black people werent allowed to eat in the same places as white people just 60 years ago.
So no, you better serve everybody equally or serve nobody at all.
Oppo
Member
Z_Y
Member
Like if that customer is a minority?
partyphone
Banned
so no blacks is cool with you?
having a judge dictate what cakes a baker will and will not make is so much better
and let the public recognize him for the shithead he is, and put him out of business.
balladofwindfishes
Member
That just leads to discrimination and segregation.
Even if what they're doing is discrimination? Why do you think that?
Would you feel the same if this were a black couple he was refusing?
So... you're okay with someone refusing service because of race?
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
So you're okay with them refusing to serve Black/Mexican customers? I don't think we should be okay with discrimination.
Except that's not what happens. Instead, minorities cannot live normal lives.
Z_Y
Member
balladofwindfishes
Member
That didn't work in 1950 and it won't work in 2015
Great idea:
In light of some of the comments others have made, you guys are right. I'm wrong here and didn't really think out my initial comment very well. I'm sorry, honestly
darkazcura
Member
I still don't understand why I see posts like these in these threads. Did you forget about the whole Civil Rights Movement that happened decades ago? Why would you want to go backwards?
EDIT: Ok, I see you responded above. Nevermind then.
Fortunately we live in a civilization that is trying to move away from allowing assholes to get away with harming groups they hate.
double jump
you haven't lived until a random little kid ask you "how do you make love".
edit: never mind
Laieon
Member
This is exactly how I feel.
Yes. I'm also okay with businesses refusing to serve whites if they so desire. It's their business, they should be able to pick and choose who they serve. There's obviously plenty of other alternatives.
I'd rather the business owners put their beliefs out in the open for the simple reason being that I'd rather support and give money to a business that shares the same world view that I do.
In the case of this baker, he clearly doesn't agree with gay marriage for whatever reason. Why should someone give him their money when there's more than likely plenty of bakers who would be more than happy to make your rainbow cake? I'd rather someone be honest and say "No, I don't like you!" then put on a mask and pretend they do.
No, because that's dangerous and could potentially result in someone getting killed.
I'm a little conflicted in this. He isn't saying he won't serve gay customers only that he doesn't want to make gay themed cakes. You could say that he's holding himself out to the public, but isn't there a line? Does this mean he would have to make a cake for a hate group too? Now, we can draw a line of reasonableness, but it's still an arbitrary line.
partyphone
Banned
sometimes you have to force the invisible hand of the free market to give a reach around. change is very slow to happen without the force of law.
This only works if he's a bigger shithead than the majority of his other customers. If the general community is bigoted, the persecuted minority is fucked.
No, they certainly shouldn't.
Here's a better one - should restaurants be able to serve food without health inspections?
The Libertarian ideal is a dystopia, not a utopia.
Yikes. I hope you really do see reason and aren't just saying that to get us all to shut up
This libertarian view that bigots would all go out of business because of the altruism of the customers is just laughable. First off, consumers aren't perfectly informed. Second off, a lot of consumers are bigots, too. This just leads to discrimination against minorities.
It's his/her business in our fucking society. They should run it how we as a society allow them to run it, because they're using our resources, selling to our people, and are ultimately a part of our society too. Want free reign to do whatever you want? Go head off to an island and see how far it gets you. See how many government roads take people to your place of business.
No it won't, necessarily. It wasn't the free markets that stopped segregation.
Good to hear. Sorry to dogpile, but people get trapped in this ideology very easily and can't see some of the problems.
Naw, another one already jumped onto the "1950 was onto something" bandwagon.ok guys he reversed, dogpile scatter !
Necromanti
Member
That might be true today, but it would have been considered the norm a few decades ago. Relying on the majority opinion isn't...well, reliable when it changes as much as it does.
It sounds like he objected to the purpose of the cake, not the design. That's the line.
TimeEffect
Member
See, I agree that outing oneself like this would be a great way to let the public destroy your business..but something tells me a "No Blacks" sign somewhere in the U.S would actually improve business and work. Same for a "No Gay Wedding Cakes"
Yikes. I hope you really do see reason and aren't just saying that to get us all to shut up
When I made my initial thought on it I wasn't thinking of the bigger implications of it that lead back to stuff like the civil rights issues and the "whites only" stuff. I feel like a piece of shit now for my initial view on it.
Given these kind of stores raise 6-digit amounts by crowdfunding, I doubt it is true today.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
The thing is, it's really not any of the owner's business what the cake is for. Would he refuse to sell a cake to someone getting remarried on non-biblical grounds? Or a baby shower cake celebrating a child out of wedlock?
And you can't really compare a hate group to a gay wedding.
This is the type of shit I'll never understand.
It's a fucking cake dyed in the color of a rainbow. We did the same type of cupcakes for my daughter's first birthday party.
Of all the stupid fucking things to get worked up about. Guess they don't care about their business THAT much.
It's a fucking cake dyed in the color of a rainbow. We did the same type of cupcakes for my daughter's first birthday party.
Of all the stupid fucking things to get worked up about. Guess they don't care about their business THAT much.
Necromanti
Member
True. I guess I meant in relative terms.
Grinchy
Banned
I'm always shocked that something like this goes to court. If I were the gay couple, and some place told me they wouldn't make my gayke, my first reaction would be to go somewhere else. Even if I got a court to order a baker to make it for me, I would just assume it wouldn't be a good quality or that it was tampered with.
This is the type of bullshit I'm tired of seeing on here. Are you American? If so, do you leave your house? Maybe in the backwoods of the deep south would a "No Blacks" sign work. "No Gay Wedding Cakes", ok I'll give you that would garner more support.
I swear this forum wants to act like America is 400 years behind the rest of the world.
I really find it funny how stuck on this issue Christians are. Are there any other issues against their beliefs that they're this bullheaded about? I mean that seriously. The bible says not to do quite a lot of shit, but the only thing they seem to care about is gay marriage.
Where are these deeply held Christian beliefs when we cut funding on food stamps, too?
Where are these deeply held Christian beliefs when we cut funding on food stamps, too?
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
No need. You gave a thoughtful response to criticism.
No dogpile for that unfortunately.
Z_Y
Member
Dude...don't beat yourself up over it. It's an easy trap to fall in. The important thing is you changed your mind when you thought more about it. Some people shut that whole process down right after they get pissed about somebody being forced to bake a fucking cake and never dare to think one logical step beyond.
If you wanna know what businesses can't discriminate against, look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class . Getting sexual orientation on that list was at the heart of that Supreme Court case.
balladofwindfishes
Member
No, often times there are not, or the alternatives are not the same quality at all.
It's like the first half of the 1900s never happened and we never learned how awful absolute freedom for business owners is.
Except in certain places, discriminating can actually earn you customers and being inclusive of all can hurt business...
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
now i hope you don't confuse why black people did sit ins and boycotted places , it wasn't because of refusing to be served. It was for receiving second class service for the same price. Jim Crow shop owners were just fine having pick ups for black people in alley ways, or having a negro section in a shop. It wasn't about black people being allowed it was about taking the money and treating them like shit in return. This isn't the same thing, here we have someone saying they don't want to be a part of something that goes against their beliefs ie the wedding, he's not taking their money or refusing to refund (is he? that would be a lawsuit).
There are similarities but the difference is there, just as many boycotts of establishments happened as did , sit - ins to prove a point. Boycotts of bus systems, retail chains, etc etc , however in the mean time black people had their own businesses , and people to patronize. The issue was businesses expecting full PRICE for jim crow service. Things changed because businesses saw people voting with their wallets, if such and such a chain isn't going to accomodate black people then spread the word and give your money to someone who would.
It's a little disturbing to see that aspect of it being glazed over thats huge.
Dude, your candidates for presidency just talked about tithing, abolishing abortion and surrounding your country with walls on national television.
No politician has ever said anything dumb outside of the US. Good point.
hint: they're probably not gonna win
Laieon
Member
I would definitely not say "often". There may be a few exceptions every now and then, but for the most part, there's going to be alternatives. In this case, it's a bakery in Denver, there's plenty of competition.
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