funkygunther
Banned
you should read what both of us wrote, that is “the conversation” I referred to
anyway your programming is clearly broke now, so see ya…
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you should read what both of us wrote, that is “the conversation” I referred to
anyway your programming is clearly broke now, so see ya…
Malakhov
Banned
But I thought companies understood them and their effects intimately? So why other sources had to find it? Hmm, intriguing
funkygunther
Banned
vaccines get approved by the medical boards of those that will be responsible for administering them
Malakhov
Banned
They were secured emergency authorizations. Astra is actually seeking to be approved later this year
funkygunther
Banned
Depends on the country
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Yes, the scientific process found that they made mistakes during the clinical trials, despite knowing down to a minute level how their vaccine works. That how things be, how they do.
Malakhov
Banned
Yes, depends which country. The WHO also secured them via emergency authorizations as well, though
Malakhov
Banned
If they knew down to a minute how their vaccine works, they wouldn't of made any mistakes in the clinical trials, because there wouldn't of been these problems in the first place, it's a bit contradictory
Anyhow, I've been working with drugs since 2003, and to trust the big pharmaceuticals these easily is an absurd concept to me, but to each its own
funkygunther
Banned
That’s why we have medical boards
can I ask what your role is and which companies you have dealt with?
Malakhov
Banned
Pharmacy, mostly oncology but I also do general. Pretty much all companies that have chemotherapy drugs.
Glaxo, Astra, Merk, Pfizer, Roche etc...
funkygunther
Banned
cool, so the pharmacy you work would have had to trust that the medical board that allowed the sale of these drugs had done its job to review the drugs, the end user (even an intermediary like a pharmacy) is not directly trusting the companies themselves
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Yea, scientists make mistakes sometimes, they miss things, despite their vast knowledge of their own creations or discoveries - that's why there is a peer reviewed process. And while I appreciate the distrust of big pharma in the wake of things like the opioid crisis and other events, I think distrust in this case because of those cases is conflating issues (if that's what you mean - not those specific examples but in general).
But sure, to each their own. Also bigups fellow healthcare worker. Been a rough past year and a half-ish.
Malakhov
Banned
Yes I agree on this, though it means the drugs would not have been approved by the board yet and were secured by emergency procedures
There is some rare cases that we will try a drug while it's in research but it's for desperate cases, when nothing else worked so far. Let's say the success rate isn't really high but that's understandable, it's a last resort tryout
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QSD
Member
I don't see how they're conflating. Sure, purely logically speaking the vaccines are a different case to the opioids that were previously falsely marketed as harmless, but trust and human psychology don't work like that. If you have a friend that's previously stolen from you, and he asks if you can be friends again, you will probably want some kind of apology and/or some kind of message that he understands what he did was wrong and why. In the case of pharma, they still deny publicly any wrongdoing re: opioid crisis. That is far from what I would call confidence-inspiring.
Also in the case of the opioid crisis both the peer review process and the external oversight (FDA) were in place, yet were somehow not able to stop these medications from going to market with a label "safe & not addictive"
I understand that for the vaccination effort to be successful it would be nice if pharma could start with a clean slate, but they've done very little to clean up their reputation and as such I don't think you can demand people be unequivocally trusting of them again.
Jaysen
Banned
Man Hospitalized After Taking Livestock Ivermectin From Feed Store For COVID-19
At least one individual has been hospitalized in Mississippi after injecting ivermectin intended for treating worms in livestock, the Mississippi State Department of Health revealed today.
www.mississippifreepress.org
Should have consulted his vet before ingesting. Once again, these people are idiots. Get the vaccine, not the horse paste, dummies.
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RAÏSanÏa
Member
This is where listening to those who say to do one's research can get one if they dismiss the part about talking to medical professionals and put too much weight on unqualified and irrational opinions.Man Hospitalized After Taking Livestock Ivermectin From Feed Store For COVID-19
At least one individual has been hospitalized in Mississippi after injecting ivermectin intended for treating worms in livestock, the Mississippi State Department of Health revealed today.
Should have consulted his vet before ingesting. Once again, these people are idiots. Get the vaccine, not the horse paste, dummies.
DeepBreath87
Banned
I don’t think this is what anyone means when they say that. Someone who is injects horse medications is just as likely to die from trying to use his hairdryer while taking a bath.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
When people constantly bring into question medical professionals and the policies they recommend with unqualified opinions, emotional outbursts, and irrational and irrelevant concerns this is a result.
This didn't happen to this wretch in a vacuum. Trust in the trained medical community needs to be promoted so that people will seek their opinions and put more weight and trust in them even when it doesn't suit personal bias.
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FunkMiller
Member
The 'equal sides to everything' argument is always one postulated by the cranks, the devout, and the idiotic.
Jaysen
Banned
Respect our opinions! We got them from Facebook!
DeepBreath87
Banned
How it going for you, symptom wise?Welp, got covid again, after having both doses of Moderna and probably having covid back in 2020.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
They aren't hard to spot these days thankfully. The whole aluminum hat thing is a dead giveaway.
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BigBooper
Member
It's complicated because I'm also being treated for other stuff, but definitely lots of coughing, head congestion, and general tiredness. The tiredness, I'm not sure how much is covid, but I had to sit down after taking a shower a couple of days ago because I was so wiped out so quickly.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Yeah the tiredness/breathing trouble is apparently what surprises most people in my experience. A family member of mine who had Covid last year told me about how he was short of breath and had to sit down after just going up the stairs in his house. And this is a guy only 3 years older than me used to working hard outside all day. (Farm)
It's just bizarre how hard it hits you.
Thaedolus
Member
I have a friend who moved to Australia with her Aussie husband at the beginning of the year with their 5 year old because the COVID situation in the US was so whack. I wonder how they’re feeling now where they apparently can’t get the vaccine and are in lockdowns again…?
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Toons
Member
Um you absolutely can say things that turn out to be wrong and still be credible and still make sense ok issues. Any other notion is completely ridiculous. Science is not about being right ther first time or having all the answers its about altering that conclusion through statistics, experimentation, analysis and so on.
So no you can't just say "one guy said something wrong so any anti Vader has credible reason to disregard every fact of information we've gotten since then" that makes zero sense. The data is there. If vaccination = good is something they need to be convinced of, and yet the real world data will not convince them, why should we be concerned at all with what one man said?
It stops being about what one man said when you start denying the actual facts and realities of the situation. The thing works, that is no longer in any way up for debate. You say the consequences mater but what consequences? People have still gotten the virus with it but most everyone was telling people to still mask up and still practice safety guidelines and many did not. If any body got the vaccine solely because this one guy said it completely erased your chances then they were foolish in the first place as data was coming out well before it was readily available saying that this thing was not 100% effective. We knew this going in.
Thats not a valid excuse to disregard all available info we have and decide NOW that what the doctors say matters.
Toons
Member
Its proven to work. Its much more effective at fighting the virus. Thats no longer up for debate , like I said. St this point choosing to not get it is a personal choice that is purely for your own convenience, not the well being of others.
DeepBreath87
Banned
So as to the bolded, that is revisionist history nonsense. It was CLEARLY stated that vaccinated people no longer needed to mask up. They were not encouraged to do so. You have everyone from this CDC director to Anthony Fauci saying vaccinated people can take off their masks. So while people were saying things about masking up if it made people comfortable, there was absolutely zero push for the vaccinated to wear masks in the spring.
It clearly seems like you aren’t trying to convince people anymore, which I find to be a shame. But I still think people can be convinced.
Toons
Member
Depends on the outlet you went to or where you were at. Where I live mask mandated ere very much still encouraged gor some time until after a few months when vaccination numbers went up.
But make no mistake..... this vaccine was never claimed even by the providers to be 100% effective. The success rates were documented well before it ever reached public market.
Im very much still trying to convince people but my question is what are you supposed to convince them with? If someone is choosing to disregard clear data supporting the effectiveness of this vaccine and the state in which unvaccinated individuals are filling up hospitals, what else are we to do? We csnt promise nothing bad will ever happen to you if you get this. We can't see the future and we can't read minds. So if data won't convince you then what will?
This is why I say if you have a problem with what this guy said or that guy said.... fine. Screw what they said. Look at the cold hard numbers. If thats not enough to convince you then realistically nothing you or I say can.
HawksWinStanley
Member
Wasn't that in regard to the alpha variant though, which was less transmissible so vaccinated people unmasked together had an extremely low rate of transmission? I thought it was only when delta started spiking that the mandate came back since the tranmission was higher among everybody you get the handful of breakthrough cases in vaccinated people.
I saw this yesterday, fucking ridiculous and scary as shit. Unacceptable
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Thaedolus
Member
The didgeridoo-sounding music was a bit too on the nose
Ah sorry , I hope you are okay. corona the family , can be caught multiple times , like flu. There also where corona viruses spreading before COVID. I have had multiple flu’s, but nothing was worse than the Mexican flu.Welp, got covid again, after having both doses of Moderna and probably having covid back in 2020.
This virus is staying among us and will probably change how we live, but I think human kind needs another year to understand and give it a place, and adjust .They are all trying so hard to go back to how it was, with half baked vaccines.. instead of changing some habits .
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DeepBreath87
Banned
The tone has just been all wrong. My dad was hesitant. He didn’t get his first shot until a couple of weeks ago. Now, I’ve been pretty plugged into all this since the beginning considering what I do. So when delta started creeping up last month, I encouraged him to reconsider. He’s a pretty skeptical guy, but I just told him that between April of 2020 and March of 2021, we had a steady stream of nursing home patients with covid. After the vaccinations became widespread, that stopped cold. I told him things were going to increase again and I didn’t want to have to worry about seeing him at the hospital.
People can be convinced. But it takes the right approach. Sometimes raw data isn’t enough. It has to be distilled down to something people can wrap their arms around. And it has to come from a source people trust actually has the best interests in mind.
DeepBreath87
Banned
So are you telling me we weren’t “following the science” with all that stupidity?
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
had a patient who owns a feed store look at me surprised when I gave him 29 ivermectin pills a few of days ago. he told me he's already been taking ivermectin (presumably sells it at his store?) and told me he didn't think hospitals gave it to covid patients (common misconception that people lie about, for whatever reason). I could tell this guy was highly suspicious so I thought this would help us establish a therapeutic relationship and build some trust. I told him we are trying everything we possibly can with one goal in mind: send him back to his family in one piece. I didn't lecture him because I know it comes off as patronizing, I just wanted him to know I'll do everything I possibly can to help him fight this thing, that our goals are aligned and that I'm on his team no matter what.Man Hospitalized After Taking Livestock Ivermectin From Feed Store For COVID-19
At least one individual has been hospitalized in Mississippi after injecting ivermectin intended for treating worms in livestock, the Mississippi State Department of Health revealed today.
Should have consulted his vet before ingesting. Once again, these people are idiots. Get the vaccine, not the horse paste, dummies.
anyway long story short, he didn't get better, his shortness of air made him more and more anxious despite the anxiolytics, became more paranoid due to hypoxia, taking off his oxygen in fits of frustration, and when I couldn't be there to calm him down and a shitty nurse just rubbed him the wrong way, he became convinced we were the ones making him feel this way and not the progressively worsening pneumonia. He became belligerent. Blue in the face he was still able to throw a staff member across the room. is now in restraints and intubated and showing no signs of improvement at this time. I had 5 ICU patients that day and still made time to sit down and guide him through the darkness and some shitty nurse comes in and carelessly throws away any progress we've made in an instant. I don't know where I'm going with this, just trying to make sense of what happened. then yesterday, 3 of my patients died. every phone call you have to make is the worst experience of your life. one of them called me back a few hours after I had to tell her that her husband died to ask me how he was doing....I slept 18 hours last night and wanted to sleep more. people like to cherry pick their talking points they ultimately understand nothing about; "not enough studies" the morbidly obese woman will tell you with a straight face about the vaccines while sits on a non rebreather while we give her tons of meds that have very barely been studied, like she even understands the first thing about how trials work. its fucking absurd. We are figuring things out as we go along, and to hyperfocus and cherry pick trivial discrepancies along the way in an attempt to undermine everything else they say is straight up disgraceful and only ends up hurting causes you claim to defend. it's self sabotage in my eyes.
at this point I wouldn't be surprised if those most resistant to vaccine efforts have already experienced first hand the pain and suffering of the people they love most , and the only thing to avoid the painful realization that you contributed to the miserable asphyxiating death of the people you love most is to just double down in order to avoid the cognitive dissonance. I'm rambling
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poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
That set-up in the picture looks ridiculous. I've only ever seen plastic shields at checkouts which probably are effective. Anyway as far as I can tell there is no real science behind putting them up, and no real science about not putting them up. The quotes are pretty vague 'little effect' 'possibly could' etc. Basically they are probably useless but might be slightly bad or slightly good.
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DeepBreath87
Banned
Like so many of the “public health” measures we have pursued this year. Six feet is another good example.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
It is kinda crazy that even before COVID we hadn't done any real research on preventing the spread of respiratory viruses and never looked that hard at things like surgeons masks to see if there was a more effective measure. We got pretty lucky with COVID all things considered.
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BouncyFrag
Member
FunkMiller
Member
Should have gone with this. Every Australian has to memorise the lyrics by the time they are five.
DeepBreath87
Banned
It really is true. We sometimes act like covid is the plague. We should thank our lucky stars it isn’t. Imagine if MERS has covid’s transmissibility.
QSD
Member
Man, that is some tough stuff to go through. Hats off that you're still standing. Used to be that dealing with people with an extreme level of paranoia towards their caregivers was the purview of people in my line of work (psychiatry) but the level of generalized paranoia that's going on these days is just something else. It really needs to be adressed somehow when the pandemic is over. I do, to some extent, understand what you are having to deal with though, it can be hair-tearingly frustrating to try to help someone who is convinced you are out to fuck them over in some way.had a patient who owns a feed store look at me surprised when I gave him 29 ivermectin pills a few of days ago. he told me he's already been taking ivermectin (presumably sells it at his store?) and told me he didn't think hospitals gave it to covid patients (common misconception that people lie about, for whatever reason). I could tell this guy was highly suspicious so I thought this would help us establish a therapeutic relationship and build some trust. I told him we are trying everything we possibly can with one goal in mind: send him back to his family in one piece. I didn't lecture him because I know it comes off as patronizing, I just wanted him to know I'll do everything I possibly can to help him fight this thing, that our goals are aligned and that I'm on his team no matter what.
anyway long story short, he didn't get better, his shortness of air made him more and more anxious despite the anxiolytics, became more paranoid due to hypoxia, taking off his oxygen in fits of frustration, and when I couldn't be there to calm him down and a shitty nurse just rubbed him the wrong way, he became convinced we were the ones making him feel this way and not the progressively worsening pneumonia. He became belligerent. Blue in the face he was still able to throw a staff member across the room. is now in restraints and intubated and showing no signs of improvement at this time. I had 5 ICU patients that day and still made time to sit down and guide him through the darkness and some shitty nurse comes in and carelessly throws away any progress we've made in an instant. I don't know where I'm going with this, just trying to make sense of what happened. then yesterday, 3 of my patients died. every phone call you have to make is the worst experience of your life. one of them called me back a few hours after I had to tell her that her husband died to ask me how he was doing....I slept 18 hours last night and wanted to sleep more. people like to cherry pick their talking points they ultimately understand nothing about; "not enough studies" the morbidly obese woman will tell you with a straight face about the vaccines while sits on a non rebreather while we give her tons of meds that have very barely been studied, like she even understands the first thing about how trials work. its fucking absurd. We are figuring things out as we go along, and to hyperfocus and cherry pick trivial discrepancies along the way in an attempt to undermine everything else they say is straight up disgraceful and only ends up hurting causes you claim to defend. it's self sabotage in my eyes.
at this point I wouldn't be surprised if those most resistant to vaccine efforts have already experienced first hand the pain and suffering of the people they love most , and the only thing to avoid the painful realization that you contributed to the miserable asphyxiating death of the people you love most is to just double down in order to avoid the cognitive dissonance. I'm rambling
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12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
I think most of them are just private efforts winging it to make people feel better and more safe in order to get their business. they don't actually care if it works or not to curb the spread, they are just trying to keep their business open