Bernd Lauert
Banned
Australia becoming China speedrun
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12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
in light of misinformation literally killing people by the thousands during the Covid-19 pandemic, we appreciate good sourcing in this thread
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
When the Biden administration sets a date for the booster shot, which will be offered to healthcare workers, etc, first like the previous round, I am going to get it this time. The first shots I held off getting from work so that vulnerable people and frontline health workers could, while I scheduled mine with the CDC - and I ended up having to wait until May for it. It seems like there will be no shortage this time around in my state, so day one or two for me. No messing around. To hell with getting a breakthrough infection of the delta.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Exactly. I've already set up a meeting with my boss tomorrow to talk about trying to set up a day sometime in early November if they maintain that September release. That way I can get the booster shot and have the rest of the day off just in case there are any side effects.
Edit: Though it did just occur to me that they may age gate this just like they did the vaccine early on.
Whoops lol
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think it's going to be recommended for people who are not yet 8 months or more past their second dose...
in light of misinformation literally killing people by the thousands during the Covid-19 pandemic, we appreciate good sourcing in this thread
It is an old article, from August 2020:
State of emergency powers are in force across Australia to combat coronavirus. Here’s how they are being used across the country. - ABC News
Scroll about half way down for the South Australian part.
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Even though I am healthcare IT every government institution (and every business I've come across) considers be a healthcare worker - full stop. So when wave three is released I'll be able to head into the hospital and get the shot. I had that chance with the original vaccines as well, but as I mentioned I declined and went the route of the general public. Not this time.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I'm just saying that if you completed your vaccination in May, then the recommendation will probably be that you don't get it until like January or later. Surely they won't just recommend that everyone goes out and gets it regardless of how much time has passed from their second shot...
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Malakhov
Banned
Good reasons, it's all about respect.
I work in an hospital, been working since covid day 1, worst place that was touched by COVID in the city, had 75% of all units infected. I was asked not to wear a mask the first few weeks, couldn't even bring our own ones, even if people offered to sew some masks for other coworkers. It was prohibited.
And I never got the damn thing and considering 90+% of the people who died from covid here are 60+, I ain't getting jabbed. A friend of mine lost his brother also, one week after getting his second dose, heart failure, so nah, I'm good.
Might not have a job soon since it has become mandatory for healthcare workers here now, but I'll stand by my convictions until the end.
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Jaysen
Banned
Another genius making a big deal about an infinitesimal death rate from the vaccine while downplaying the seriousness of the virus. Totally believable story too.
HarryKS
Member
Bullshit. It'd make sense if there were real options available to those getting a shot. None of the two shots, be it Pfizer or Moderna have even been fully approved.
The argument about putting others at risk is tenuous and insulting. Vaccinated people still carry and transmit it.
Malakhov
Banned
Another genius who can't accept another's position on a subject.
I ain't downplaying anything, I've been in an hospital since it started and witnessed who died from covid and who didn't, what about you? Have you treated a COVID patient?
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Now do covid death rate for young and healthy individuals.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Just because it doesn't work perfectly, doesn't mean it doesn't work at all.
It's partially effective, which is better than zero.
Multiple countermeasures combined have a cumulative effect.
Malakhov
Banned
I prepared every COVID patient's medication, every night, 5 days out of 7 since day one. We had no deaths under 30, only one in his 30s but he was morbidly obese.
The pattern was easy to detect, all covid patients who died had medications for high blood pressure, diabetes, cholesterol and other health issues and the old people who probably wouldn't make it through the flu.
I will admit I was scared as hell when it first hit, when I was seeing bodies being taken out by people who were dressed like they were about to take a nuclear radiation reading, but after all this, I'm at peace with my decision.
Jaysen
Banned
About a million times worse than the number of people dying to the vaccine.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Malakhov
Banned
Just looked at the numbers for our province btw, on 11278 deaths so far, in %
| Under 20 years | 0 |
| 20-29 years | 0.1 |
| 30-39 years | 0.2 |
| 40-49 years | 0.5 |
| 50-59 years | 1.9 |
| 60-69 years | 6.5 |
| 70-79 years | 19.4 |
| 80-89 years | 39 |
| 90 years or more | 32.3 |
| Age to be determined | 0.1 |
So yeah, goes with what I saw first hand... Especially considering the total cases % by age group:
0-9 years8.6
10-19 years12.5
20-29 years15.9
30-39 years14.4
40-49 years14.9
50-59 years12.9
60-69 years7.9
70-79 years4.9
80-89 years5.1
Younger people were the most hit, yet the less % of deaths, by a ridiculous margin
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
And this is just by age. Now take out the people with co-morbidities (like being a fat fuck) and those numbers drop way lower.
Malakhov
Banned
Exactly, obese, high blood pressure, diabetes etc.. you're basically left with almost no deaths 60 and under, directly from covid alone.
I went from 210lbs to 180lbs since this shit started, I know what kills, they can feel safe with their jabs while eating their chips
Jaysen
Banned
And how many died from the vaccine? Uh huh.
Malakhov
Banned
That's not the point at all. Not wanting the vaccine is not about the fear of dying from it. Not wanting the vaccine for me, especially working in pharmaceutical, is not wanting something I don't need.
I will never take any drugs released so rapidly unless I'm on my death bed and it's the only solution.
But yeah, you can call me paranoid or a conspirationist all you want if it makes you sleep better at night
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Injecting yourself with something you could theoretically die of (or get heart fucked, or whatever) in order to prevent something you could theoretically die of. Big brain time.
Malakhov
Banned
Especially if you're not at high risk of dying from what it is supposed to protect you from.
If I was 60+ I'd probably take it, 70+? For sure
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Malakhov
Banned
Jaysen
I've got a question for you, please try to be honest
You got diagnosed with cancer. Your doctor gives you a choice between 2 treatments
First treatment, you have 95% chance of getting through it. The drug has been on the market for more than a decade and is a proven and safe drug
Second treatment, you have 98% chance of getting through it. The drug has been on the market for less than a year, it's been working so far but all side effects are not know to this date
What do you go for?
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Same. If I were old and fat, I'd totally take it.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
I've got a question for you, please try to be honest
You got diagnosed with cancer. Your doctor gives you a choice between 2 treatments
First treatment, you have 95% chance of getting through it. The drug has been on the market for more than a decade and is a proven and safe drug
Second treatment, you have 98% chance of getting through it. The drug has been on the market for less than a year, it's been working so far but all side effects are not know to this date
What do you go for?
Bit of a false dilemma there. Side effects of vaccines have historically appeared in one or two months of them being tested, testing that we know entered the first phase about five months ago, the final phase completing about two and a half months ago. Since then over 4.5 billion doses of these vaccines have been collectively administered. If there were any additional side effects chances are we'd know about them by now.
Beyond that, it's much safer to take them than not. I am sure that if the original poster (of which this line of conversation was born) asked their doctor they'd agree. Self diagnosis leading to the unwise decision to remain unvaccinated for themselves and the public health is indeed foolish and selfish. The longer people remain unvaccinated, the greater the chances of a new vaccine resistant variant arises as it continues to replicate. No amount of FUD will change those facts.
RAÏSanÏa
Member
Meanwhile, around 79% of eligible Californians had been vaccinated as of Wednesday.
California becomes 1st state to require proof of COVID vaccination or negative test for indoor events over 1,000 people
California will require proof of vaccination or a negative coronavirus test to attend indoor gatherings of 1,000 or more people starting next month, a move the state says is the first of its kind i…ktla.com
balls of snow
Member
Worst fever I ever had in my life for one night. Like literally shaking and sweating. After breakfast, feels like nothing happened. 2nd dose pfizer here.
funkygunther
Banned
I've got a question for you, please try to be honest
You got diagnosed with cancer. Your doctor gives you a choice between 2 treatments
First treatment, you have 95% chance of getting through it. The drug has been on the market for more than a decade and is a proven and safe drug
Second treatment, you have 98% chance of getting through it. The drug has been on the market for less than a year, it's been working so far but all side effects are not know to this date
What do you go for?
For your metaphor to work both of these need to be either COVID vaccines or COVID treatments, you're mix and matching. And then the 98% needs to be proven that all sides are unknown, which is not true. We do not know what we don't know, cannot assume that there is something there...
Jaysen
Banned
This might be the dumbest thing yet.
I've got a question for you, please try to be honest
You got diagnosed with cancer. Your doctor gives you a choice between 2 treatments
First treatment, you have 95% chance of getting through it. The drug has been on the market for more than a decade and is a proven and safe drug
Second treatment, you have 98% chance of getting through it. The drug has been on the market for less than a year, it's been working so far but all side effects are not know to this date
What do you go for?
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
The first was exactly like my annual flu shot: sore shoulder the next day.
Second shot: shoulder was more sore than usual and it lasted several days. I felt lethargic the next morning and decided to call into work because I wasn't sure if I was having a reaction or not. It's hard to explain - I was tired in a way I've never felt before. But by that night I was fine and dandy. I think I had a bit of a runny nose for an hour or two, but I also have allergies during that time of year so it could have gone either way.
Malakhov
Banned
I could of used COVID, flu, diabetes, whatever, not relevant
We do not know anything about RNA vaccines, that is a bit foolish to just dismiss possible long term side effects.
There is research on RNA vaccines, cancer for 13 years, flu for 3 years and rabbies since 12 years. Yet we've researched this one for less than a year? Let's pretend it's not possible, let's just dismiss it
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Malakhov
Banned
Hey, good on you, thought you'd pick the 98% option. But you went with an even easier route.
Malakhov
Banned
Historically not on RNA vaccines.
See my above post about on other RNA vaccines researched and how long for.
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funkygunther
Banned
I could of used COVID, flu, diabetes, whatever, not relevant
We do not know anything about RNA vaccines, that is a bit foolish to just dismiss possible long term side effects.
There is research on RNA vaccines, cancer for 13 years, flu for 3 years and rabbies since 12 years. Yet we've researched this one for less than a year? Let's pretend it's not possible, let's just dismiss it
No one saying there's no possibility but your metaphor relies on there actually being side effects that we don't know about in order to make the decision, but that's not the case. So it's a false input.
And the relevance isn't the disease, the relevance is vaccine vs treatment vs placebo/do nothing. So you're still mix and matching.
betrayal
Banned
I've got a question for you, please try to be honest
You got diagnosed with cancer. Your doctor gives you a choice between 2 treatments
First treatment, you have 95% chance of getting through it. The drug has been on the market for more than a decade and is a proven and safe drug
Second treatment, you have 98% chance of getting through it. The drug has been on the market for less than a year, it's been working so far but all side effects are not know to this date
What do you go for?
I am for vaccination (I know, I repeat myself), but such examples are really stupid. You can't compare a healthy person with a cancer patient. And you can't compare a cancer patient with a young and healthy person, who statistically will not die from COVID-19.
Actually, the example for a younger and healthy(!) person should be:
No vaccination: 0.00x% chance of death (but immunity after disease and a 0% chance for long-term side affects due to vaccination)
Vaccination: 0.00x% chance for severe/life-threatening side effects and a very small chance for long-term side effects (which is probably about 0.00x% or less)
Because now the answer is not so obvious anymore.
A little differentiation matters there. If someone is old and/or fat and against the vaccination, then that is clearly stupid and he takes a measurable risk. If someone is young and healthy and against vaccination, then statistically they are taking a negligible risk. People who frequently deal with very sick and elderly people, whether in their private lives or in their jobs, should of course get vaccinated, in my opinion.
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Malakhov
Banned
No it's not, I said not all side effects are not known yet. Just like the COVID vaccine which has side effects like soreness, fever etc. Like most vaccines so there is actually side effects
The relevance is the fact that if you're young and healthy, you're already protected, you're getting a vaccine for a very small increase of chance of surviving it.
Malakhov
Banned
You're right, your example is better, since it's even a smaller margin, just like in this case. I concede on that one
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
The technology and methodology behind the mRNA vaccines were studied for years before they were put into practice. There's no way the vaccines could have been so rapidly produced otherwise. The companies that developed them understand them and their effects intimately. There's no reason to believe they will be any different from other forms of inoculation, that there will be long term affects way down the road. That is just conjecture, and again, FUD.
Malakhov
Banned
funkygunther
Banned
you are misunderstanding my criticism of your analogy, you don’t know the side effects aren’t known…you can’t know that and yet for your analogy to work that is something you need to know
so in this case you’re comparing a placebo for a certain cohort vs a vaccine (for that cohort or in general, I don’t know) which ignores any long term effects of having the disease in the first batch, which is ironic since you’re both worried about unknown side effects but also not unknown side effects
Malakhov
Banned
No, you were saying I was assuming there would be side effects and there wasn't, I simply said there is side effects already and I never said I was worried about these 'not unknown side effects', that's misinterpreting on your part. There are common vaccines side effects
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Yeah, astra sure knew their effects intimately
Good god..
Again, the side effects were discovered within a few months - as expected. And the risks were found to be very, very low. You're actually helping my* argument.
* = and the opinion of the relevant bodies of science and medicine
funkygunther
Banned
your analogy literally was about there being side effects we don’t know about in the “vaccine” metaphor, and no mention of there being side effects we don’t know about in the “got the disease” metaphor
before this goes further please go back to the top and re-read this conversation
Malakhov
Banned
So low that it was banned and considered invalid as a vaccine and people had to get a replacement shot
I love the you're helping my argument and the opinion of science and medicine bit, almost makes it seem valid, almost.
Malakhov
Banned
I'd take your advice and read what you just posted, seriously... It's that bad
funkygunther
Banned
you just don’t get it, and that’s fine otherwise you wouldn’t resort to “it’s that bad” and trying to use the lame lol reaction as some tool…if you want to continue this conversation like an adult then please address my points towards you
Malakhov
Banned
Aw, how cute. I see the pattern now, that's what I thought. Or maybe that's not not what I thought... I should read what I wrote again, but I can't since I'm not an adult, or am I? Maybe I'm not not an adult. Who knows...
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Again science, the process, worked. After a few months the side effects became known, the vaccine was reviewed by other sources and it was found that a crucial lack of trial data along with a (very low) risk of severe side effects deemed it unsafe to some governments. It was the scientific process in action, and it weeded out a bad candidate - again, within a few months.
You seem to be arguing with yourself at this point. You keep reinforcing the fact that vaccine side effects are discovered early on, and that there is no evidence of any long term effects, all while making passive aggressive jabs at the messenger (me). You seem to just want to argue without actually digesting any information provided to you.
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