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[Jaysen]

And yet, it works.

It really doesn’t.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Are you seriously attempting to compare anti-vaxxers... with black people?

You're genuinely making that correlation, aren't you?

...that we should treat people who wilfully, repeatedly and deliberately spread misinformation about a vaccine for a virulent disease that's crippled our planet... the same way we treat people with a different skin colour.

Oy vey...

No. I'm equating anti vaxxers with racists and flat earthers.

This conversation appears to be jumping the shark.

 

[12Goblins]

And yet, it works.

yea I think most of these people join these cult like groups looking for a sense of purpose and belonging and these groups are really good at doing just that, so I do think being nice and making them feel welcome and accepted in other parts of society does go a long way into unlearning years of toxic indoctrination. Daryl Davis is a good example. but I could see why some might think this is also very naive

 

[FunkMiller]

Oy vey...

No. I'm equating anti vaxxers with racists and flat earthers.

This conversation appears to be jumping the shark.

Then be clearer about what you’re saying. Makes all the difference, chief.

 

[Rentahamster]

Also in this thread: idiots who equate not getting vaccinated with the willful murder of others. We are truly living in a clown world. An analogy: I drive. I know there is a slight possibility that I will hit and kill someone (probably the same or greater probability than people in my cohort dying of COVID, actually). This can happen regardless of whatever precautions I take to avoid it (obeying driving laws, paying attention etc.) simply by virtue of the act of driving. However, if I only drove 5 mph everywhere, I most certainly would never kill anyone. And, of course, if I didn’t drive at all I also would never kill anyone. However, we don’t mandate that people drive 5 mph in order to eliminate a very small risk of death. We also do not ban people from driving if they refuse to drive 5 mph everywhere.

In this analogy:

Taking driving precautions = wearing masks, social distancing etc.
Driving 5 mph = taking the vaccine
Banning people from driving = banning people from participating in public life, finding gainful employment etc. if they are unvaccinated

And before you say that this analogy is not apt, because driving 5 mph is a great imposition whereas injecting a vaccine is not, I would ask: How is your ability to get anywhere in a timely manner more important than PEOPLE’S LIVES? (Or: “are you a murderer?”). And second, how is a violation of one’s own physical sovereignty via a coerced injection of a vaccine (because coercion is EXACTLY what’s going on here) any LESS of an imposition than simply needing more time to get around?

This analogy is not apt because the dangers of driving pale in comparison to the dangers of not getting vaccinated. Not just to yourself but to others. Being a bad driver is not exponentially contagious to the community. Being a bad driver does not fill up our hospitals to over capacity.

Equating the promotion of a shot that has less proven risk than Tylenol to the imposition of a 5mph speed limit is a giant lapse in logic.

 

[Loki]

Lollapalooza 2021, with 385,000 attendees in close quarters.

90% of attendees were vaccinated. 203 have tested positive for Covid.

0.0004% of vaccinated attendees tested positive, and 0.0016% of unvaccinated attendees tested positive.

Was your point that the unvaccinated were 4x as likely to get infected in this sample, or that the rate of infection was very low for both groups, with the implication being that the vaccinated provide fewer nodes for transmission among a crowd, thus lowering the rate of infection for all? Or were you making both of these points, implicitly or otherwise?

 

[EviLore]

Was your point that the unvaccinated were 4x as likely to get infected in this sample, or that the rate of infection was very low for both groups, with the implication being that the vaccinated provide fewer nodes for transmission among a crowd, thus lowering the rate of infection for all? Or were you making both of these points, implicitly or otherwise?

The latter, yeah.

 

[Algan]

Here in Brazil it seems that some people have forgotten that there is still an extremely contagious variant circulating. Currently only 25.92% of the population is fully immunized.
This weekend people crowded the beaches due to the high temperatures of the last few days.

 

[ManaByte]

US is seeing 1 million jabs a day now.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Here in Brazil it seems that some people have forgotten that there is still an extremely contagious variant circulating. Currently only 25.92% of the population is fully immunized.
This weekend people crowded the beaches due to the high temperatures of the last few days.

They clearly don’t care anymore. And more power to them at this point.

 

[synchronicity]

 

[ManaByte]

We don't need batshit crazy conspiracy YouTube channels in this thread. It was bad enough someone was promoting Alex Jones' site a few pages back.

 

[synchronicity]

We don't need batshit crazy conspiracy YouTube channels in this thread. It was bad enough someone was promoting Alex Jones' site a few pages back.

Snowden is crazy?

 

[ManaByte]

Snowden is crazy?

That channel is. Every single video is the exact same thing and almost exactly 10 minutes to maximize the YT algorithm monetization. All of them are 10 minute conspiracy videos warning people that the evil illuminati is about to get them...imminently. Just wait for the next video with the exact same warning and thumbnail.

 

[synchronicity]

That channel is. Every single video is the exact same thing and almost exactly 10 minutes to maximize the YT algorithm monetization. All of them are 10 minute conspiracy videos warning people that the evil illuminati is about to get them...imminently. Just wait for the next video with the exact same warning and thumbnail.

Forget the channel - I'm talking about the messenger and the content of the message.

 

[ManaByte]

Forget the channel - I'm talking about the messenger and the content of the message.

What context? The channel edited it to fix their psychotic delusions. They did the same with all of their Elon Musk "I TRIED TO WARN YOU!!!!" videos.

 

[synchronicity]

What context? The channel edited it to fix their psychotic delusions. They did the same with all of their Elon Musk "I TRIED TO WARN YOU!!!!" videos.

Context? Content. The words are Snowden's, are they not? If it was edited, I wasn't aware. And I certainly *am* aware of the general view Snowden has about the state and its surveillance/control of the population.

 

[Kilau]

US is seeing 1 million jabs a day now.

Boosters included in that number?

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

the general view Snowden has about the state and its surveillance/control of the population.

Of the current conditions of where he's at?

 

[ManaByte]

Boosters included in that number?

No because those don't even begin until a month from now.

 

[synchronicity]

Of the current conditions of where he's at?

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your response. I'm aware of his messaging and flight from our government in response to what he knew.

 

[Kilau]

No because those don't even begin until a month from now.

It's been happening.

The U.S. plans to authorize boosters—but many already got a third dose

Here’s what we know about waning immunity and the science supporting the booster shot.

www.nationalgeographic.com

I know someone that got hers last week, she's immunocompromised.

 

[ManaByte]

It's been happening.

The U.S. plans to authorize boosters—but many already got a third dose

Here’s what we know about waning immunity and the science supporting the booster shot.

www.nationalgeographic.com

I know someone that got hers last week, she's immunocompromised.

Cheating the system and lying to get a third isn't an official booster.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding your response. I'm aware of his messaging and flight from our government in response to what he knew.

Thought this thread was about COVID and its current status. Snowden would only have current information about the country he's in.

Trying to shoehorn old stuff he's said into this discussion would require you to explain how his old statements fit into things currently.

 

[Kilau]

Cheating the system and lying to get a third isn't an official booster.

That's semantics, it's no different than what an official booster will be. If you got the first in January you would be 8 months out from your second now. I'm 8 months out on September 6th.

Anyway, I was just curious if boosters would be broken out in the data, apparently not yet.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

That’s all well and good, but it doesn’t explain why the CDC isn’t collecting such data, nor does it explain why they appear to be engaged in intentional obfuscation regarding all sorts of COVID data at this point. Everything they present is confusing, incomplete, or tendentious (e.g. omitting relevant distinctions, lumping categories/cohorts together etc.). The data coming out of the UK SHITS on CDC data in terms of both precision and clarity. And it’s not because there are smarter people in the UK. And if I find CDC data muddled or misleading, I can’t even imagine what the average person makes of it.

Yep. Either the CDC is incompetent, or it's obfuscating numbers for political reasons. Both possibilities do not instill confidence in the institution. Luckily we have UK numbers.

 

[synchronicity]

Thought this thread was about COVID and its current status. Snowden would only have current information about the country he's in.

Trying to shoehorn old stuff he's said into this discussion would require you to explain how his old statements fit into things currently.

In today's world, I don't think that's a fair statement - that we can only have information about our physical location. If that were so, most everything everyone has posted in this very thread is irrelevant. (Most haven't personally witnessed all the numbers they are referencing.) Granted, direct experience/contact is better, no argument. But I find his general sentiments and distrust of growing government intervention/control very relevant to the increasing intervention/control I see happening in response to Covid itself.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

In today's world, I don't think that's a fair statement - that we can only have information about our physical location. If that were so, most everything everyone has posted in this very thread is irrelevant. (Most haven't personally witnessed all the numbers they are referencing.) Granted, direct experience/contact is better, no argument. But I find his general sentiments and distrust of growing government intervention/control very relevant to the increasing intervention/control I see happening in response to Covid itself.

It's completely fair to ask if he's applied the same critical analysis to the country he resides in. If not, then there are questions about his objectivity and motivations.

Especially since his words can only find refuge and amplification on a conspiracy channel.

 

[synchronicity]

It's completely fair to ask if he's applied the same critical analysis to the country he resides in. If not, then there are questions about his objectivity and motivations.

Especially since his words can only find refuge and amplification on a conspiracy channel.

His words/message exist outside the context of that channel. I had no idea of the nature of that particular channel when I posted the link. I know nothing about it.

Of course it's fair to question anyone's motivations, including those of our own government.

 

[Chaplain]

Did anyone in the UK watch Channel 4's documentary on "Did Covid Leak from a Lab in China?"

An in-depth look at the origins of Covid-19. Did it really start in a food market in Wuhan, China? Or was the global pandemic caused by a lab accident in the same city?

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

His words/message exist outside the context of that channel. I had no idea of the nature of that particular channel when I posted the link. I know nothing about it.

Of course it's fair to question anyone's motivations, including those of our own government.

If he can't speak about the country he's in then maybe that's where the state censorship is?

 

[synchronicity]

If he can't speak about the country he's in then maybe that's where the state censorship is?

The fact that he resides in another country out of fear of "his own" says quite a lot about the weight of his perspective imho.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

The fact that he resides in another country out of fear of "his own" says quite a lot about the weight of his perspective imho.

Yup, it indicates exactly whose skin he's looking out for.

 

[synchronicity]

Yup, it indicates exactly whose skin he's looking out for.

He gave up an awful lot to share the information he had. I don't see the same self-interest you do in his words/actions.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

He gave up an awful lot to share the information he had. I don't see the same self-interest you do in his words/actions.

Until he starts talking about the place he's at as critically, then he's just an out of date mouthpiece living in the past. He doesn't know what's changed or what's going on.

 

[synchronicity]

Until he starts talking about the place he's at as critically, then he's just an out of date mouthpiece living in the past. He doesn't know what's changed or what's going on.

Well, without elaborating, I'll just say that I have a vastly different perspective.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Until he starts talking about the place he's at as critically, then he's just an out of date mouthpiece living in the past. He doesn't know what's changed or what's going on.

You mean he should risk getting expelled from Russia to... why exactly? What purpose would that serve other than getting locked up forever in Gitmo? Or would you actually prefer that because you're uncomfortable with what he's saying?

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

You mean he should risk getting expelled from Russia to... why exactly? What purpose would that serve other than getting locked up forever in Gitmo? Or would you actually prefer that because you're uncomfortable with what he's saying?

He had to run from the States for something other than being a citizen criticizing the government. He wouldn't get kicked out of the States for that.
Even if he ran to somewhere like the UK(and was protected from deportation hypothetically) and he criticized the government there he wouldn't be expelled for that.

If he's just criticizing and speculating as a citizen then he shouldn't be in any threat of expulsion, should he? Unless you think there is some sort of monitoring going on there...

 

[Bernd Lauert]

He had to run from the States for something other than being a citizen criticizing the government. He wouldn't get kicked out of the States for that.
Even if he ran to somewhere like the UK(and was protected from deportation hypothetically) and he criticized the government there he wouldn't be expelled for that.

If he's just criticizing and speculating as a citizen then he shouldn't be in any threat of expulsion, should he? Unless you think there is some sort of monitoring going on there...

What are you talking about? Russia is an authoritarian state, everyone knows that. So what's the point?

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

What are you talking about? Russia is an authoritarian state, everyone knows that. So what's the point?

He isn't objective.

 

[Thesuffering79]

The user fees FDA charges aren’t some guarantee you’re going to get clearance/approval, it’s a fee because each submission is a giant tome of reports they have to review and may include expensive onsite audits over multiple days or weeks. The fees cover those expenses and are proportional based on the type of submissions being reviewed (some are smaller or larger than others). The reviewers aren’t getting paid off any more than the lady at the DMV you pay your car registration to

FDA gets paid whatever the pharmaceutical company pays them could be from thousands to the millions. Until an investigation is done we cant be sure.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

He isn't objective.

Do you think he's making things up in order to please Russia? He always delivered the receipts so far.

 

[DeepBreath87]

He had to run from the States for something other than being a citizen criticizing the government. He wouldn't get kicked out of the States for that.
Even if he ran to somewhere like the UK(and was protected from deportation hypothetically) and he criticized the government there he wouldn't be expelled for that.

If he's just criticizing and speculating as a citizen then he shouldn't be in any threat of expulsion, should he? Unless you think there is some sort of monitoring going on there...

He would’ve been extradited by the UK immediately. The dude risked everything to reveal state secrets the government was lying about to everyone, including the elected representatives of the public. You can question whether he’s correct in things he’s saying now. You have no leg to stand on to question his honesty, however, without looking like a fool.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Do you think he's making things up in order to please Russia? He always delivered the receipts so far.

Not going to speculate on that.

He hasn't been in the States or involved with them for quite a few years. He doesn't have any real idea of what's going on in the US anymore. His ideas are all questionable speculation from afar and filtered to add to his narrative and personality cult. He's easily dismissed as entirely unreliable.

 

[synchronicity]

He would’ve been extradited by the UK immediately. The dude risked everything to reveal state secrets the government was lying about to everyone, including the elected representatives of the public. You can question whether he’s correct in things he’s saying now. You have no leg to stand on to question his honesty, however, without looking like a fool.

The fact that some believe those in power (call it the government or whatever label you wish to affix) would do a 180 after having been exposed so nakedly rather than continuing with the status quo is both amusing and terrifying to me.

Those with power/control rarely just say, "Yeah, you got me. I'll shape up now." That's not the nature of power and control, whomever the wielder.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Yep. Either the CDC is incompetent, or it's obfuscating numbers for political reasons. Both possibilities do not instill confidence in the institution. Luckily we have UK numbers.

Yes. Either the vital government agency is incompetent or there is a political conspiracy. Clearly those are the only two reasonable option here. Mhm.



It may have been naive of me, but once I heard that full FDA approval was on the way for the Pfizer vaccine I thought the thread would get better. Then Zefah left and then I was sure it would. But it's still the same nonsense. The only difference is the goalpost are over there now instead of over here. It's never ending.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Yes. Either the vital government agency is incompetent or there is a political conspiracy. Clearly those are the only two reasonable option here. Mhm.

Feel free to offer more options.

It may have been naive of me, but once I heard that full FDA approval was on the way for the Pfizer vaccine I thought the thread would get better. Then Zefah left and then I was sure it would. But it's still the same nonsense. The only difference is the goalpost are over there now instead of over here. It's never ending.

The "full" FDA approval is half-assed at best. More like quarter-assed.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Yes. Either the vital government agency is incompetent or there is a political conspiracy. Clearly those are the only two reasonable option here. Mhm.

Binary world. It couldn't be other factors related to data collection.

It's funny how the simplest minds are certain in their own indulgence to expect the efforts of those more capable.

Then won't take those words or change their mind. Almost disingenuous.

Hanlon's Razor saves them from wit.

Feel free to offer more options.

The "full" FDA approval is half-assed at best. More like quarter-assed.

Compared to whose ass?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Binary world. It couldn't be other factors related to data collection.

It's funny how the simplest minds are certain in their own indulgence to expect the efforts of those more capable.

Then won't take those words or change their mind. Almost disingenuous.

Hanlon's Razor saves them from wit.

Good r/iamverysmart content. Needs slightly more cringe to be front page material, though

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Good r/iamverysmart content. Needs slightly more cringe to be front page material, though

Uh huh

The "full" FDA approval is half-assed at best. More like quarter-assed.

Whose ass? The one you're talking out of?