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[Punished Miku]

Using that as an example I would happily pay a one time penalty to avoid losing my job or being forced to get vaccinated. However that is not what is being proposed. What is being proposed is possibly losing my livelihood or being relegated to a subclass of society unless I get an irreversible medical procedure.

What I am opposed to is the federal government being the enactor and ones forcing this. That is an overreach of their power, and using OSHA to do it seems questionable at best as I cannot find anything prior in OSHA rules that has anything to do with the forcing of a medical procedure on a business or employee.

This is the slippery slope that most seem willing to let slide because they look at the immediate outcome, but fail to see what pandora's box this opens in the future. If the federal government can use OSHA to force medical procedures then there is no limit to what they can force under the guise of saftey.

Yeah, we'll just have to wait and see where the specifics fall. May be permitted to mandate at state level but not federal, or private business, or not. But there is definitely precedent that establishes vaccine mandates already in military, private businesses, and state government. I'm not sure what the Cambridge Board of Health qualifies as in this old case - but I'm guessing that's one of the state agencies. The principles outlined in the ruling are fairly universal, but we'll have to see how that gets ruled on after all the inevitable challenges on the way.

As far as the fine being $5, I guess the sentencing phase can vary quite a bit. As eluded to already in this thread, Texas just jumped into an extremely authoritarian $10,000 fine just recently. $5 was probably a lot back then.

 

[terintamel]

Stop calling it a procedure like they are requiring a surgery. It's a fucking vaccine shot. Not a lobotomy.

So your only response is to harp on my use of the wrong term? Fine it is not literally a medical procedure as defined, but nonetheless it is still an irreversible medical change to my body. I am not saying the vaccine is a good or bad thing, but using OSHA, which was the point of my comment, to do it is a reach.

This is not like making me where a back brace or hardhat while at work. Both things that are not permanent and I can remove when not on the job. Again my point is if the government can use OSHA to force a vaccine under the guise of safety then where is the line. That is my concern. Not the immediate benefit of getting more jabs in arms, but the long term affects of these rule changes in the future.

We can look at both the here and now while paying attention to the long term ramifications. However, that is not what our government is doing and not what most on this board are doing either.

 

[funkygunther]

At that point I'll probably have to suck it up.

if it's available why not just get it now?

 

[HawksWinStanley]

As someone just completing day 224 locked down in Melbourne, Australia I can attest.

In 18 months the goalposts shifted from '2 weeks to flatten the curve' to 'once we get to 70% double jabbed we'll open up. Oh and scan this QR code everywhere you go.'. And of course that's with the caveat that the vaccinated will have a far easier time living life, with being able to go to restaurants etc without any dickery involved. The narrative to get covid passports across the line here is already being setup by the msm and politicians, and if that goes ahead it will be an absolute shit show. More so then what its been.

As for the vaccine itself, I guess alot of people in here would throw their 'antivaxxer' label out at me, but the truth is I'm more hesitant. I don't like the level of coercion involved and the tribalism its created (see: this thread) plus i'm pretty fucking fit and healthy right now. Probably fitter then I've been since my early 20's (which was a while ago now). So I think the risk of being royally fucked up by the virus are pretty minuscule. I've said from the start of this thing, that if young and healthy people start dying at a similar rate to the elderly and frail, then I'll take it seriously. Hasn't happened, despite the msm loving to drum up rare cases where it does.

Anyway, its likely at some point I'll have to get vaxxed for work or something, but the bigger concern is being able to visit my mom, who's in aged care. They already made flu shots compulsory to visit last year (which i went and did. I'm such an antivaxxer...) and I'm pretty certain they'll make the covid vaccine mandatory too soon enough. At that point I'll probably have to suck it up.

Again, people are so focused on the binary live and die. If you're young and healthy then yeah death shouldn't worry you. Long Covid should. If you're vaccinated then you're 50% less likely to have to deal with that shit for more than a week or two. If you're not then you're opening yourself up to the risk of having life changing ailments for who knows how long. People are getting treated for severe depression because they can't taste or smell anymore. They're having horrific issues with chronic inflammation and shortness of breath they can't shake. I consider myself young and healthy too and living the rest of my years like that sounds like a fucken nightmare.

I don't blame anyone for being hesitant about the vaccine, people say we don't know what the long term effects are. But you can say the exact same about Covid which we're finding is causing organ damage, clotting, permanent lung damage, and neurological issues. Living with that stuff sounds horrible enough, but how do we know that won't eventually lead to cancer? How will that affect people's livelihoods if they can't physically work or think clearly? We're a year and a half out since people started getting vaccinated with a trivial amount having any adverse reactions or serious problems. You'll be hard pressed to find concrete numbers linking any deaths to the vaccines. On the other hand Covid has been in play for almost 3 years now and there are people who got sick from the beginning who are still having issues, millions dead to complications, hospitals packed, and the list goes on.

I guess you can chalk it up to a roll of the dice on both sides of the issue but I'd much rather take my odds with a vaccine with zero tangible reasons to expect future complications than get Covid unvaxxed and exponentially increase those chances of long term health issues.

 

[poppabk]

Get the vaccine - vaccinated
Don't get the vaccine - unvaccinated
Recover from COVID or get the vaccine- immunized
Vaccine hesitant - question the risk/reward of personally getting the vaccine
Anti-vax - doubt the risk/reward at a fundamental level, in contradiction of available statistics, of a specific vaccine or all vaccines entirely

At least those would be my definitions.

 

[Toons]

Anyone saying that people be would be against this if it was a different president is being disengenuous. The very vaccine were pushing for was developed under that presidents tenure.

This isnt about politics. This is about fighting this pandemic and saving as many people as we can.

Swallow your pride and get vaxxed. It isnt going to kill you and it isnt going to rewrite your DNA. You'll be woozy for like a day but you'll come out with much better protections against this virus.

 

[funkygunther]

Vaccine hesitant - question the risk/reward of personally getting the vaccine

for this to be true risk/reward needs to be quantified, have you spoken to any vaccine hesitant person that's been able to articulate at what point the balance tips?

 

[Kev Kev]

for this to be true risk/reward needs to be quantified, have you spoken to any vaccine hesitant person that's been able to articulate at what point the balance tips?

for me it was seeing that bazillions of people took it and didnt grow a third arm out of their asshole

 

[funkygunther]

for me it was seeing that bazillions of people took it and didnt grow a third arm out of their asshole

that seems like a pretty low bar

 

[BouncyFrag]

 

[Kev Kev]

that seems like a pretty low bar

nah it was just a joke

i was hesitant because i wanted to see how things panned out after months of the vaccine being available and millions taking it. once i saw it was safe on a large scale over a long period of time, i was cool with it. got it probably about 8 months after it became readily available

 

[Deleted member 1159]

for me it was seeing that bazillions of people took it and didnt grow a third arm out of their asshole

Wait- can I get a shot for that??

 

[Halo is Back]

Xi is laughing his way to world domination. The west is self-destructing in civil conflict while our anger should be directed at the people responsible for this shit.

"a country that is divided, surely will not stand"

 

[Nobody_Important]

"a country that is divided, surely will not stand"

The US has been divided in one way or another for pretty much it's entire existence. This latest division isn't the first and won't be the last.

 

[betrayal]

That is 100% untrue my mom is a nurse and she is required to get her flu shot by her hospital. And even if it were to be struck down most private businesses will just "strongly encourage" their employees to get vaccinated like they are already doing now. So it will come back to the same thing basically.


People dying by the thousands daily yet we still have people arguing on behalf of the virus and arguing against the implementation of the statistically proven best way to fight it and actively fighting against any larger efforts to put it to use.


Clown world indeed.

Mandatory vaccination in the private sector is fine, especially in professions where you have contact with vulnerable people.

But saying "people dying by the thousands daily" without any context or differentiation is typical pseudo-intellectual social media material. I think you can do better than that.

 

[Rentahamster]

Wait- can I get a shot for that??

My business happily provides experiences involving third arms and assholes, but it's not necessarily a shot, and it's not necessarily their own arm, if you know what I mean.

 

[dcll]

I now identify as an illegal immigrant so I might not get hassled about the vaccine, no big deal since the border is not a concern during a health crisis so bad that mandates are coming down

 

[Deleted member 1159]

My business happily provides experiences involving third arms and assholes, but it's not necessarily a shot, and it's not necessarily their own arm, if you know what I mean.

Wait are hamsters gerbils?

 

[Kraz]

people in intensive care with COVID-19 who are under age 50 - accounts for 32 of the 130 ICU cases, according to the health minister's numbers. That's roughly one-quarter of coronavirus patients in intensive care.

Treating COVID-19 patients in intensive care costs at least $50,000: report - National | Globalnews.ca

Caring for a patient with COVID-19 costs much more than treating someone for a heart attack or influenza, according to a new report.

globalnews.ca

32 x 50000 = $1,600,000 for unvaxxed ICU under 50, just at this moment. $23000 for hospitalization.

Dix described the outcomes for COVID-19 patients who end up in intensive care units in B.C. as "the best in the world," but added that most ICU cases could be avoided if everyone were fully vaccinated.
"We are doing an extraordinary job - when people are extremely sick with COVID-19 and in our hospitals and in our ICUs - at helping them," Dix said.
"However, I want to be very plain: Everyone would rather be doing something else."

Excessive money and personnel being used to unnecessarily treat unvaxxed - if they were vaxxed - being diverted to managing the opiod or other health crisis be a bonanza.
However, health authorities have made it clear previously that Covid spending is not viable long term. Emergency spending for crisis.

 

[Halo is Back]

The US has been divided in one way or another for pretty much it's entire existence. This latest division isn't the first and won't be the last.

You can't deny that things are getting worse than before. Our distrust in the government and piss poor response to the pandemic is a symptom of this problem. I'm not gonna say America will fall within a year but the cracks are showing and it's not looking good when we can't even come together for a public health and economic crisis.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Mandatory vaccination in the private sector is fine, especially in professions where you have contact with vulnerable people.

But saying "people dying by the thousands daily" without any context or differentiation is typical pseudo-intellectual social media material. I think you can do better than that.

And I think you can do better than trying to downplay the toll that Covid taking on the country.

 

[Rentahamster]

A new report is out today that confirms the trends we've been observing for the past few months - against the delta variant, the vaccines still protect against hospitalization and death by a lot. The protection against infection dropped, but it is still good enough.

Yet more evidence that more vaccines among the population (even among individuals with a low risk profile) reduces the overall suffering of that population. Vaccination protection is a team effort, and the sum is greater than the individual parts.

Monitoring Incidence of COVID-19 Cases...

After the COVID-19 B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant reached predominance, fully vaccinated people had less risk of infection, hospitalization, and death.

www.cdc.gov

Summary
What is already known about this topic?

The incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection, hospitalization, and death is higher in unvaccinated than vaccinated persons, and the incidence rate ratios are related to vaccine effectiveness.

What is added by this report?

Across 13 U.S. jurisdictions, incidence rate ratios for hospitalization and death changed relatively little after the SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant reached predominance, suggesting high, continued vaccine effectiveness against severe COVID-19. Case IRRs decreased, suggesting reduced vaccine effectiveness for prevention of SARS-CoV-2 infections.

What are the implications for public health practice?

Getting vaccinated protects against severe illness from COVID-19, including the Delta variant. Monitoring COVID-19 incidence by vaccination status might provide early signals of potential changes in vaccine effectiveness that can be confirmed through robust controlled studies.

 

[FunkMiller]

As someone just completing day 224 locked down in Melbourne, Australia I can attest.

In 18 months the goalposts shifted from '2 weeks to flatten the curve' to 'once we get to 70% double jabbed we'll open up. Oh and scan this QR code everywhere you go.'. And of course that's with the caveat that the vaccinated will have a far easier time living life, with being able to go to restaurants etc without any dickery involved. The narrative to get covid passports across the line here is already being setup by the msm and politicians, and if that goes ahead it will be an absolute shit show. More so then what its been.

Mate, you're locked down because Scotty Too Hotty and his god bothering idiocy fucked up the vaccine procurement.

As soon as the country hits 80% vaccinated, everything will open up again.

 

[Rentahamster]

As we see child cases rise and schools shutting down in other jurisdictions, San Francisco schools are doing very well for themselves, probably due to their high vaccination rate. 90% of all eligible students are vaccinated.

In-school transmission is low, case numbers are low, and there have been no recorded outbreaks of COVID at SF schools yet.

https://www.sfdph.org/dph/alerts/files/09.9.21_SFDPH_COVID_cases_Children_and_Schools.pdf

To date, our data demonstrate that cases among San Francisco residents under age 18 have remained low and stable throughout the pandemic and that schools are low-risk settings when the proper safety protocols are followed.

Vaccinations are our best defense to protect children. An estimated 90% of children ages 12 to 17 are fully vaccinated. We highly encourage all eligible members for the household (12+ years old) to get vaccinated to protect children who are not yet eligible for the vaccine. The majority of pediatric COVID-19 cases in San Francisco were from an unvaccinated adult in the household getting COVID-19 and transmitting it to their family members, including children.

Case Data:

• SFUSD reported 227 cases to SFDPH out of nearly 52,000 students and nearly 10,000 staff (as of September 8).

• Among the City's private, parochial and charter school sites there were 61 cases out of nearly 22,500 students and nearly 5,000 staff (as of September 3).

• The vast majority of these infections are occurring outside of schools.

In-School Transmissions and Outbreaks:

• Suspected in-school transmissions has been so low it cannot be publicly reported without concern for privacy and confidentiality. All other cases reported at schools were related to community transmission outside of school (as of September 8).

• No COVID-19 outbreaks have been verified as having occurred at San Francisco schools (as of September 8). An outbreak is defined as three or more cases in non-related households in which the source of infection occurred at the school, and not another setting.

• No outbreaks were verified as having occurred at San Francisco camps and learning hubs during the summer of 2021.

• During the 2020-2021 school year, there were seven cases of COVID transmission in all schools in San Francisco with in-person learning, including the height of the winter surge. All other cases reported at schools were related to community transmission outside of school.

 

[carlosrox]

It isnt going to kill you and it isnt going to rewrite your DNA.

My favorite strawman of them all. Pretty sure there's about 0.1% of the population that actually believes this and on the flipside there are people just as dumb with the opposite beliefs.

This guy at work told me the other day that "if you get COVID, you're going to die" and I just nodded along with him cuz it wasn't worth the effort but inside I was like wtf did this guy just say?

 

[Cracklox]

if it's available why not just get it now?

If it was out now and people were able to choose without any of the tribalism and/or coercion or effective blackmail from the government, then maybe I would've. You know, kind of like the flu shot. Plus the reporting around this virus has smelled off since the beginning and I don't believe its the existential threat its been drummed up as. Average age of death here is 2 years above average life expectancy. The flu killed more people here in 2017 then covid did last year and this year combined.

A lot of stuff just doesn't add up, and it hasn't helped build any trust with the 'one and only way out of this', so I'll hold out as long as I can

Again, people are so focused on the binary live and die. If you're young and healthy then yeah death shouldn't worry you. Long Covid should. If you're vaccinated then you're 50% less likely to have to deal with that shit for more than a week or two. If you're not then you're opening yourself up to the risk of having life changing ailments for who knows how long. People are getting treated for severe depression because they can't taste or smell anymore. They're having horrific issues with chronic inflammation and shortness of breath they can't shake. I consider myself young and healthy too and living the rest of my years like that sounds like a fucken nightmare.

I don't blame anyone for being hesitant about the vaccine, people say we don't know what the long term effects are. But you can say the exact same about Covid which we're finding is causing organ damage, clotting, permanent lung damage, and neurological issues. Living with that stuff sounds horrible enough, but how do we know that won't eventually lead to cancer? How will that affect people's livelihoods if they can't physically work or think clearly? We're a year and a half out since people started getting vaccinated with a trivial amount having any adverse reactions or serious problems. You'll be hard pressed to find concrete numbers linking any deaths to the vaccines. On the other hand Covid has been in play for almost 3 years now and there are people who got sick from the beginning who are still having issues, millions dead to complications, hospitals packed, and the list goes on.

I guess you can chalk it up to a roll of the dice on both sides of the issue but I'd much rather take my odds with a vaccine with zero tangible reasons to expect future complications than get Covid unvaxxed and exponentially increase those chances of long term health issues.

Hey, we'll agree to disagree. I'm happy to take my chances with the virus and continue living a healthy lifestyle with plenty of exercise and sun each day (And horse paste joking people... relax) For now at least. Until I have no choice but to get vaxxed.

Besides, If I'd bought into the msm narrative of how deadly this thing is and followed the governments lockdown rules of only an hour outside each day, then I can assure you I'd be far less fit and healthy today. But then I might feel the need to get the vaccine. Hmmmm...

Oh and I refuse to live in fear of long covids or any other purported side effects for the reasons stated above your quote. I'm 99%+ sure i'll be fine. I'm also 99%+ sure I'll be fine with the vax, but I don't like the fact there's basically a figurative gun being held to our head to take it.

Mate, you're locked down because Scotty Too Hotty and his god bothering idiocy fucked up the vaccine procurement.

As soon as the country hits 80% vaccinated, everything will open up again.

You're right. Brian Christopher should clearly have been in charge

Also, you say that but these goalposts have moved a hell of a long way from 2 weeks to flatten the curve. Covid passports will be next and then we live in a 2 tiered society. Pretty sure that always works out fine

 

[dcll]

Maybe after Covid is tackled then we can move on to mandating no cigarettes and then no junk food, think of all the people dying . Something must be done

 

[Loki]

"Oh that was different...." lol good one



It's a hospital (private business) requiring doctors, nurses, and support staff (their employees) to get certain vaccines in order to protect themselves and their patients (their customers).


That sounds.....familiar........hmmm.

Binary thinking. The risk profiles for different jobs are different. In the same way, we ask miners or workers in certain industries to take safty precautions that we don't ask folks in other industries to do, even though many of the same risks may be present in these other jobs - it's just that in the specified field (with the regulations), the risk is outsized due to the nature of the work. Similarly, in a hospital setting, given the physical concentration/proximity of people (patients and employees), the fact that many/most patients already have health complications (and thus are much more vulnerable to COVID complications than a representative cross-section of the general public would be), and the prevalence of germs in general, it is reasonable to expect that certain measures should be enacted which may not and should not necessarily hold for all other industries and types of jobs.

 

[Rentahamster]

The flu killed more people here in 2017 then covid did last year and this year combined.

That sounds unusual. What place is "here"?

 

[Rentahamster]

Binary thinking. The risk profiles for different jobs are different. In the same way, we ask miners or workers in certain industries to take safty precautions that we don't ask folks in other industries to do, even though many of the same risks may be present in these other jobs - it's just that in the specified field (with the regulations), the risk is outsized due to the nature of the work. Similarly, in a hospital setting, given the physical concentration/proximity of people (patients and employees), the fact that many/most patients already have health complications (and thus are much more vulnerable to COVID complications than a representative cross-section of the general public would be), and the prevalence of germs in general, it is reasonable to expect that certain measures should be enacted which may not and should not necessarily hold for all other industries and types of jobs.

"Binary thinking"? What does that mean?

Mining safety is a bad analogy. The dangers of mining aren't contagious.

As long as you live and participate in modern society that involves regular interaction with other humans, the unique characteristics of a viral pandemic makes this everyone's problem, whether you like it or not.

 

[carlosrox]

Maybe after Covid is tackled then we can move on to mandating no cigarettes and then no junk food, think of all the people dying . Something must be done

Right? Government cares so much about us and everybody's health and safety that's why liquor stores are back by the government, cigarettes are a-okay, and we consume meat in record numbers. Not to mention how fucking shitty and disgusting factory farming is.

Said stuff.

100,000%. Every word. Exactly.

The way they've gone about this they can fuck off.

But oh no we might die next like the COUNTLESS doubters who died. Uh huh.

 

[funkygunther]

If it was out now and people were able to choose without any of the tribalism and/or coercion or effective blackmail from the government, then maybe I would've. You know, kind of like the flu shot. Plus the reporting around this virus has smelled off since the beginning and I don't believe its the existential threat its been drummed up as. Average age of death here is 2 years above average life expectancy. The flu killed more people here in 2017 then covid did last year and this year combined.

Also, you say that but these goalposts have moved a hell of a long way from 2 weeks to flatten the curve. Covid passports will be next and then we live in a 2 tiered society. Pretty sure that always works out fine

Your focus on perceived tribalism and blackmail is completely irrelevant to the purpose of the vaccine, and so you just sound like you're not getting it out of spite more than anything. And when you say goalposts are moving do you not think our understanding of Covid and its variants has changed at all? Why are you treating "2 weeks to flatten the curve" so dogmatically?

 

[BarringGaffner]

Maybe after Covid is tackled then we can move on to mandating no cigarettes and then no junk food, think of all the people dying . Something must be done

Incredibly stupid point. Obesity and cancer aren't contagious or filling hospitals. Hospitals were designed for that capacity. And we did do something about smoking- it's illegal to smoke in public places.

It's about personal choices that effect OTHER people.

 

[Rentahamster]

Maybe after Covid is tackled then we can move on to mandating no cigarettes and then no junk food, think of all the people dying . Something must be done

We already do mandate no cigarettes in many areas, and both junk food and cigarettes are not contagious.

Try again with a better analogy.

 

[poppabk]

Maybe after Covid is tackled then we can move on to mandating no cigarettes and then no junk food, think of all the people dying . Something must be done

My job already requires you to pay substantially more for health insurance if you smoke or have a BMI over 30. In about 20 states, an employer can require you to be a non-smoker both in and out of work. My employer also does not allow smoking within 50 feet of company property by employees. There is still no vaccine requirement for private companies - if you don't want the vaccine you just have to get regularly tested.

 

[dcll]

It is true though, if people cant make the right choice then we need to force it is what I am hearing. How many people die a year from cigarettes and junk food etc, it has to be an insane amount

 

[Loki]

for this to be true risk/reward needs to be quantified, have you spoken to any vaccine hesitant person that's been able to articulate at what point the balance tips?

For me personally, with COVID, there is no point at which that balance would tip. And that's because the "risk" part of the risk/reward calculation is not sufficiently large - it is, in fact, vanishingly small. So going from a 1/50,000 chance of dying to 1/70,000 doesn't do much for me. If COVID were killing 5-10% of all infected people regardless of age or health status, then obviously I'd be in line for the vaccine. The farce of this whole matter is that you have all these people treating it like it IS that disease. I feel like I'm the only one who sees that the emperor has no clothes.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Right? Government cares so much about us and everybody's health and safety that's why liquor stores are back by the government, cigarettes are a-okay, and we consume meat in record numbers. Not to mention how fucking shitty and disgusting factory farming is.



100,000%. Every word. Exactly.

The way they've gone about this they can fuck off.

But oh no we might die next like the COUNTLESS doubters who died. Uh huh.

You are just making excuses to not get vaccinated. Your decisions are illogical, and others who think like you have caused this government bullshit to escalate.

you don't have a reason that is logical, it's only out of spite. So be it, we're getting more consequences now. That's the free decision you made in collective with others.

 

[Punished Miku]

Maybe after Covid is tackled then we can move on to mandating no cigarettes and then no junk food, think of all the people dying . Something must be done

Smoking: Banned for children. All advertisements banned. Banned from use in all public buildings. Heavy investment in marketing to persuade people to not use it. Mandated warning labels. Currently with vaping, all flavors that even slightly could be appealing to children are getting nuked right now.

Junk food: Obama admin rolled out restrictions on school lunches. NY state govt banned trans fats, and began raising pricing on soda, and I believe even limited the sizes that could be sold.

We're going to have to tackle obesity in a similar way that smoking was tackled. Heavy taxation, marketing and PSA campaigns, elementary education campaigns, bans on marketing to children, etc.

The second that stuff is tried, it will be called authoritarian though, like it was in NY.

 

[funkygunther]

For me personally, with COVID, there is no point at which that balance would tip. And that's because the "risk" part of the risk/reward calculation is not sufficiently large - it is, in fact, vanishingly small. So going from a 1/50,000 chance of dying to 1/70,000 doesn't do much for me. If COVID were killing 5-10% of all infected people regardless of age or health status, then obviously I'd be in line for the vaccine. The farce of this whole matter is that you have all these people treating it like it IS that disease. I feel like I'm the only one who sees that the emperor has no clothes.

then that definition doesn't apply to you

 

[dcll]

If vaccines are going to be required to enter some buildings, etc then shouldn't the border be locked down? Not understanding the lack of care about the border during a health crisis

 

[Punished Miku]

If vaccines are going to be required to enter some buildings, etc then shouldn't the border be locked down? Not understanding the lack of care about the border during a health crisis

Yep. I'm in favor of following immigration laws.

 

[funkygunther]

If vaccines are going to be required to enter some buildings, etc then shouldn't the border be locked down? Not understanding the lack of care about the border during a health crisis

you mean the requirements for those entering the USA?

of course, you didn't mean that at all

 

[Rentahamster]

It is true though, if people cant make the right choice then we need to force it is what I am hearing. How many people die a year from cigarettes and junk food etc, it has to be an insane amount

Then you're hearing wrong, because the message is "those who present a danger to others need to either be separated or have their danger levels lowered".

Excessive junk food is primarily a danger to yourself and not others. No mandate.

Smoking cigarettes is primarily a danger to yourself and a moderate danger to others due to second hand smoke. Some mandates against smoking exist to protect others' health and freedom from the smoker.

Being unvaccinated and interacting with other humans in the midst of a deadly pandemic is both a large danger to yourself and a large danger to others due to the ability for a disease to spread in an exponential manner among a community. A 1% death rate is not very large on an individual level, but it is devastating in a population of millions. Stronger mandates encouraging vaccination will exist to protect others' health and freedom from the unvaccinated people.

Do you understand the nuance now?

 

[dcll]

Let's pretend 1000's of illegal immigrants are not pouring over the borders, in a health crisis this should be taken seriously

 

[Rentahamster]

For me personally, with COVID, there is no point at which that balance would tip. And that's because the "risk" part of the risk/reward calculation is not sufficiently large - it is, in fact, vanishingly small. So going from a 1/50,000 chance of dying to 1/70,000 doesn't do much for me. If COVID were killing 5-10% of all infected people regardless of age or health status, then obviously I'd be in line for the vaccine. The farce of this whole matter is that you have all these people treating it like it IS that disease. I feel like I'm the only one who sees that the emperor has no clothes.

Apply your 1/70,000 chance of dying to the entire human population of Earth and tell me how many dead people that gets you.

 

[Punished Miku]

Let's pretend 1000's of illegal immigrants are not pouring over the borders, in a health crisis this should be taken seriously

Agreed. I'm in favor of enforcing border security and immigration law. I'll just leave it that, as that's as far as it applies to COVID. People do downplay it, and those people are hypocrites in terms of COVID precautions. I'm personally not one of those hypocrites though.

 

[funkygunther]

Let's pretend 1000's of illegal immigrants are not pouring over the borders, in a health crisis this should be taken seriously

what is your data to support they are a source of infection?

 

[dcll]

Well considering even vaccinated people can spread it I would say it is a safe assumption.

 

[poppabk]

It is true though, if people cant make the right choice then we need to force it is what I am hearing. How many people die a year from cigarettes and junk food etc, it has to be an insane amount

Thankfully it's very few. Hundreds of thousands of deaths from smoking and obesity related illnesses, but smoking or junk food are hardly ever the primary cause of death.
/s