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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
You would think that after all this time the anti-vaxxers would have learned that scientists and medical professionals don't instantly know everything about a new variant. It takes time.
At this point the anti-vaxx here seem simply angry at the reality of the situation and have long given up trying to understand and process the valid information they receive, and to understand why various measures are or may be taken. They just want to throw tantrums and post their sad YouTube grifters of choice.
I understand the frustration many have towards the situations related to the ongoing pandemic. But I could never truly sympathize with them because I cannot put myself into such a weak, defeatist mindset - to be one of these people unable to simply accept tough times and accept personal responsibility. At this point the remaining anti-vaxx stalwarts merely wreak of weakness, a refusal to take personal responsibility, and an intense need to be tribal about straight-forward science. Long gone are the days when it could be understood why they were astray because the information wasn't clear and the pandemic was new. They no longer have any excuse.
At this point the anti-vaxx here seem simply angry at the reality of the situation and have long given up trying to understand and process the valid information they receive, and to understand why various measures are or may be taken. They just want to throw tantrums and post their sad YouTube grifters of choice.
I understand the frustration many have towards the situations related to the ongoing pandemic. But I could never truly sympathize with them because I cannot put myself into such a weak, defeatist mindset - to be one of these people unable to simply accept tough times and accept personal responsibility. At this point the remaining anti-vaxx stalwarts merely wreak of weakness, a refusal to take personal responsibility, and an intense need to be tribal about straight-forward science. Long gone are the days when it could be understood why they were astray because the information wasn't clear and the pandemic was new. They no longer have any excuse.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
TheFarter
Banned
Funny to see the people that have caught covid again even after being jabbed, still so down on people who don't want the shot.
What the fart is the difference of me getting sick and staying home with light symptoms without having the shot, what's the difference for me and the person who has had the shot, and has the exact same level of sickness.
Nothing. Just a moral value I guess. A superiority feeling. I had the shot. I'm better and helping out society, even though I too am sick and have the same symptoms as you. LMAO. Ridiculous stuff these days. And a self proclaimed "hot headed idiot" that helps lead the charge. Give me a break.
So much crap talk on Aaron Rodgers. But his WR who had covid and felt the same as him, even though he had the shot, he's immune to the ridicule. Maybe that's actally what the shot is for. Social media points.
What the fart is the difference of me getting sick and staying home with light symptoms without having the shot, what's the difference for me and the person who has had the shot, and has the exact same level of sickness.
Nothing. Just a moral value I guess. A superiority feeling. I had the shot. I'm better and helping out society, even though I too am sick and have the same symptoms as you. LMAO. Ridiculous stuff these days. And a self proclaimed "hot headed idiot" that helps lead the charge. Give me a break.
So much crap talk on Aaron Rodgers. But his WR who had covid and felt the same as him, even though he had the shot, he's immune to the ridicule. Maybe that's actally what the shot is for. Social media points.
Cyberpunkd
Member
The difference is you are much more likely to get severe Covid and end up in hospital if you are unvaccinated than if you are not - are we still arguing about it? Here, go and read countless articles of people begging for vaccine just before they die from they own stupidity. Then find me articles of people getting Covid and saying: ‘Fuck, I could have not take a shot if that’s how it ended’.
12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
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I am not "for" or "against" the vaccines. I feel they are important public health measures which have helped and will continue to help us get to the other side of COVID nightmare world. What I am "for" is the ability of people to make what they feel is the best decision for themselves and their families based on their own assessment. I have to say that all the current advertising around the jab is farcical, because it's all just a fait accompli - "they" have already decided what your decision regarding whether or not to get vaccinated should be, and "they" will use all manner of coercion to ensure it. That's why the messaging is funny - they're all like "Hi, I'm Dr. So-and-So, the city's chief physician, urging you to speak with your doctor about the vaccine and any concerns you may have, so you can make the best decision for you and your family" -- yet "the best decision" has already been made for you under pain of job loss, inability to enjoy any of society's normal perks, inability to travel etc. That's the hidden subtext that they put the glossy, nonsensical veneer over. It's a joke to me, because it's flagrantly dishonest and everyone knows it. No different than a guy who has a gun behind his back smiling at you and asking you to "make the best decision for you and your loved ones," but only if that decision is to hand over all your valuables. You know, he knows it, we all know it. Comical messaging for anyone with eyes to see in light of what's going on in the world.
The degree to which this is all a done deal already, and all the trials, "debates" etc. are just theatrics for the rest of us, can be seen in the following progression of events (taken from a post I made elsewhere one month ago):
1) Pfizer/Moderna EUA granted on the basis of 3-4 MONTHS worth of "phase 3" trial data. Normally 1-2 years' worth of data is required.
2) Full FDA approval sought and granted within 3 months of petition. This is normally a 10-12 month process; even their "priority review designation" aims to grant approval within 6 months per the FDA themselves, yet it ended up being 3 months; also, per the FDA's website, priority review "does not affect the length of the clinical trial period." Really? I guess that at the time of approval these vaccines had the standard 2-4 years' worth of phase 3 data behind them? Oh, wait, they didn't? Interesting. Well at least they had ~11 months of data on whether the experimental group from the original phase 3 trial had any adverse reactions as compared to the control group, right? Ooops, no they didn't, because Pfizer, in an unprecedented move, administered the vaccine to their entire "control" group several months before FDA approval. Thus no meaningful long term comparisons of outcomes between the two groups - whether regarding efficacy against COVID or incidence of adverse outcomes - can be made.
3) No public hearings/arguments were permitted during the approval process as is typical for other drugs. This, combined with the rapidity of the approval process and the contamination of the control group, undermines faith in the entire endeavor - or at least it should make you question things. Based on the preceding and what follows, it is clear both that the FDA was/is under tremendous political pressure to approve these vaccines (and subsequently boosters, approvals for younger age groups despite a considerably different risk/benefit ratio etc.), and that the approval was fast-tracked for purely political, messaging, and policy reasons (e.g. mandates could then be enacted, which they couldn't be under an EUA; also, vaccine uptake had stalled, and having the imprimatur of the FDA's "full approval" removed a mental impediment to vaccination for some folks).
4) Within ONE DAY of FDA approval, various cities/states/federal agencies enacted or announced mandates; this is a clear sign that, despite their insistence mere months prior that mandates/passports were not being considered, they were simply waiting for the legal/regulatory framework to be in place to allow them to implement these measures. Essentially, they were chomping at the bit the entire time waiting for this "approval."
5) Mandates proceeded and expanded at an alarming rate here in the US. Biden's federal level mandates being the most overreaching of them all (the military vax mandate, federal employee vax mandate, and quite likely illegally enacting a private business mandate for companies of over 100 employees - that's 50+% of all companies in the US - under the auspices of OSHA). Within one week of FDA approval, numerous Fortune 500 companies announced strict vaccine mandates as a condition of employment. Virtue signaling definitely played a role here, but the thrust is clear.
6) Public discussions around both boosters and extending the EUA/approval to younger age groups began to occur around the same time. There was/is, as expected, little to no public discourse in the mainstream media regarding the VASTLY different risk/benefit calculus for these vaccines when talking about people under 20 years of age and especially under 12 years of age.
7) In the UK, the government went AGAINST the recommendation of their vaccine advisory panel and approved the vaccine for all 12-15 year olds. Again, fait accompli.
8) The drum had already started to beat for vaccinating 5-11 year old children over a month ago, despite their risks from COVID being VANISHINGLY small. These children literally have an equal chance of getting struck by lightning than dying from COVID. The Casper the Ghosts of society will shriek "but even one death of a child is too many!" And while any child's death is a tragedy, the adults in the room need to rein in such histrionics and clearly state that incredibly rare events cannot and should not dictate public policy. Else we should mandate that these kids walk around in rubber suits of armor every day, lest one of them get struck by lightning, which most assuredly happens at times. I ask you, in light of all the preceding, IS THERE ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER that vaccines will be approved (and eventually mandated for school attendance - we already see it in Los Angeles) for 5-11 year old children inside of 2-3 months? It's already a done deal - all of the submissions, data, "arguments" etc. is all a dog and pony show. They were essentially approved as soon as the vaccine existed.
9) Mandates and passports will continue to get more stringent over the coming months, and will encroach on every aspect of life: your ability to find gainful employment, procure housing (many big landlords are already mandating the vax for renters), travel (mandates for int'l travel are coming any day now, and domestic flights will not be far behind them before the end of the year). The Biden administration was even looking at requiring vaccines for interstate travel BY CAR, with checkpoints between states at major choke-points. It won't surprise me one bit if this comes to pass within 6 months.
ADDENDUM: Booster approval sought and granted within 1 month for those 65+ years of age. Then within one more month, boosters were approved for all age groups despite vocal opposition from several FDA board members, and the resignation of two top, tenured FDA officials over what they felt was "undue pressure" to approve child vaccines and boosters.
EDIT: I was too conservative in my timetable, as the above re: child vaccination was written one month ago, and within 3 weeks (not 2-3 months as I stated), the vax was authorized for the 5-11 year old age group. Further proof that this is all decided beforehand - they just go through the motions to make you think that there was actually a possibility of it being otherwise.
Still think that any other outcome was possible except what we have currently? Don't be blind.
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Won’t help , you can’t convince people who won’t let you .
Right , I’ll be talking to you in a couple of weeks / months to see how the world is doing
the problem is people are underestimating this virus for the last 2 years.. never underestimate your foe , this is a war against a virus , making wrong decisions in not vaccinating Africa a year ago , but the rich countries talking them for themselves, UK. USA and Israel at the front , now it’s gonna bite it all in the ass.btw I was right 2 years ago , that this would take years
if we did what we did.but keep wishing your old lives back I guess , instead of accepting and making the best of the future.
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Right when it’s all to late , let’s take our sweet ass time .. good thing they closed air travel from Africa instant , at least they learned their lesson from the past . Better save than sorrow.
I love a good soap , right on time for hamas to launch a couple of rockets for XmasThe end is nigh. German media addicted know everything proclaim already in big media outlets it is as dangerous as ebola or vaxxed people are in the same danger as the unvaxxed which would make them unvaxxed. Fear porn gotta love it before Christmas
for that part it the same every year.found article
Weltärztebund-Chef: Dem Virus keine Chance zur Mutation geben
Die neue südafrikanische Variante B.1.1.529 sei ein gutes Beispiel dafür, dass man dem Virus keine Chance zur Mutation geben dürfe.
m.bild.de
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12Goblins
Lil’ Gobbie
na, with masks and proper covid etiquette on top of testing/vaccines we can meaningfully curb transmission without banning travel/shutting down businesses.
Kenpachii
Member
Like we did last time? when entire europe was overun by that shit? yea no ty
Block all travel until a solution is done, i have no interest in hospitals being swamped again and full lockdowns.
arkhamguy123
Banned
Um. Okay dude. Any actual data on omicron to back this up?Right , I’ll be talking to you in a couple of weeks / months to see how the world is doing
btw I was right 2 years ago , that this would take years
but keep wishing your old lives back I guess , instead of accepting and making the best of the future.
And I'm not like you, I have my old life back. No wishing needed. You should follow suite instead of cowering and doom posting on the internet.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I disagree that if these vaccines were shit or dangerous that they would have been approved and rolled out like this. But sure governments are pushing vaccines hard, the question is why? Because they want to get to the other side of this shit show or because they want it to last as long as possible?
I have a new life
I improved my home to work better from home , have a new job , have a second job that I am building for myself and family , the past 2 years I have used to adjust to this the virus brought to us, but I am glad you have your old life back!
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Well that didn't take long.
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FunkMiller
Banned
It's probably everywhere by now, to be fair.
Only an issue if it can dodge the vaccine. Which none of us know yet, unfortunately.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Yeah I'm waiting for that info myself. The reports of it being highly mutated even compared to the Delta variant are pretty alarming though.
FunkMiller
Banned
Massive caveats here with this obviously... but if it does turn out that omicron is milder, then its exactly the kind of virus mutation we want, and would expect from previous coronaviruses.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
If that is confirmed then that is some good news.
I wonder how long it will be until we know for sure though.
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funkygunther
Banned
that Twitter profile 
FunkMiller
Banned
that Twitter profile
Yeah, I know. But it does link to verified sources!
This all might be massive knee jerk (let's hope so). A virus that wants to survive mutates to a less dangerous type to ensure it keeps enough hosts alive to spread widely. If this is the case with omicron, and it is very transmissable, it will overtake every other variant and make covid far less dangerous.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Glad someone finally said it.
NoLootBoxDev
Member
I love how the anti-vax started with it will kill you in 1 week, then 1 month, then 6 months, then 5 years, then 10 years. Now it won't kill you but will make people lost fertility. Obviously, someone watched Children of Men and decided the next lie.
Sybrix
Member
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arkhamguy123
Banned
Early data says no.
arkhamguy123
Banned
Are you gonna do this until this new global waves dies off like every single other one preceding it?
arkhamguy123
Banned
So lets recap so far.
Not enough concrete data to see how much worse it is than delta or any other variant for that matter.
Early data indicates mild, MILD symptoms even amongst the unvaccinated AND the vaccine appears to still protect against it.
Every major player has already shut down travel to the infected countries.
the 18k cases number was a glitch and it only spiked south Africas cases from low hundreds to low thousands. Not great but not deaf con 5.
And we're all supposed to be splashing around in our own tears with boosters widely available now? What is going on?
Not enough concrete data to see how much worse it is than delta or any other variant for that matter.
Early data indicates mild, MILD symptoms even amongst the unvaccinated AND the vaccine appears to still protect against it.
Every major player has already shut down travel to the infected countries.
the 18k cases number was a glitch and it only spiked south Africas cases from low hundreds to low thousands. Not great but not deaf con 5.
And we're all supposed to be splashing around in our own tears with boosters widely available now? What is going on?
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FunkMiller
Banned
Possible knee jerk responses based on previous cock ups.
Media making assumptions for the sake of fear porning.
Hopefully this will turn out to indeed by a storm in a tea cup, and lessons will be learned on reactions to variants.
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DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I'd rather have a super transmissible, but non deadly virus in circulation than a transmissible deadly virus in circulation.
Hopefully COVID takes the course of most viruses and becomes less deadly as it mutates. If it eventually mutates to the point where it's no worse than a common cold, than who cares how contagious it is. It wouldn't matter much.
Hopefully COVID takes the course of most viruses and becomes less deadly as it mutates. If it eventually mutates to the point where it's no worse than a common cold, than who cares how contagious it is. It wouldn't matter much.
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funkygunther
Banned
that’s the dream
Leyasu
Banned
Post the data that you have please. Will be interesting to read
betrayal
Banned
Besides the fact that you shit your pants at everything and that you are an absolute pessimist, you should understand that mutations are neither positive nor negative in the first place. A more transmissible variant is also not necessarily bad. In fact, it is almost necessary for a variant with a less severe course of disease to replace a variant such as Delta.
Regarding mutations, for the virus to become weaker, mutations are a mandatory prerequisite. The interaction of individual mutations also plays an important role. This variant still has many unknown mutations. So we have to wait and see, and we should certainly be careful, but this fear porn of the media and some "experts" is simply absurd.
There are also many experts on Twitter who don't think much of the fearmongering. The twitter user below, for example, is a Senior Scientist (Vaccine Research & Development) at Moderna who doesn't think much of panic porn at all and explains why it is highly likely the current vaccines still offer a good protection. At the press conference of the Minister of Health of South Africa, it was also confirmed that the vaccination seems to protect well based on the practical experience with the virus so far. I strongly recommend guys like you to listen to such people as well, because you simply lack the balance between bullshit and objectivity.
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FunkMiller
Banned
Two groups of headless chickens:
Anti-vaxxers and loonies who panic about their freedumbs every time a new variant is announced.
Doom mongers who think every new variant is the end of the world before knowing facts.
One group of brave, intelligent, good looking people:
Express valid concern about a new variant, but wait to see what data comes in, and what measures are taken.
Anti-vaxxers and loonies who panic about their freedumbs every time a new variant is announced.
Doom mongers who think every new variant is the end of the world before knowing facts.
One group of brave, intelligent, good looking people:
Express valid concern about a new variant, but wait to see what data comes in, and what measures are taken.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
You must never forget that the default position is to expect the worst-case scenario, this is the precautionary principle.
What annoys me is how people are happy to accept this mindset when dealing the the evolution of Covid/the pandemic, but want to stick their fingers in their ears when the downsides of lockdown protocols, accelerated vaccine rollouts, and loss of civil liberties are examined in the same light.
There are legitimate causes for concern for all these things.
What annoys me is how people are happy to accept this mindset when dealing the the evolution of Covid/the pandemic, but want to stick their fingers in their ears when the downsides of lockdown protocols, accelerated vaccine rollouts, and loss of civil liberties are examined in the same light.
There are legitimate causes for concern for all these things.
FunkMiller
Banned
If this turns out to be accurate, then Sorry AntiVaxxer and Herman Cain Awards will be working overtime.
FunkMiller
Banned
None of the downsides associated with these things come anywhere near close to the downside of covid spreading unchecked through society.
You don’t get to stop a pandemic without major things having to be done that disrupt regular life.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I disagree, the potential ramifications are far worse than a disease with a 1% mortality rate. Especially given that evolutionary forces will always drive a virus to higher transmissibility but lower lethality as the opposite case will in itself drive it to extinction.
This is not the first pandemic humanity has faced, and it won't be the last.
FunkMiller
Banned
We’ll never agree because you don’t see covid as much of a danger, whereas I see it as a huge danger to a small but valuable section of our society, and am prepared to put up with some minor inconvenience for their sake.
And what do you think they did in those previous pandemics?
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prinz_valium
Member
That's a 3 months old post from LinkedIn
Graeme Codrington on LinkedIn: #proudlysouthafrican #fightingcovid19 #fightingfakenews #bsreporting | 1,245 comments
Once again the world's media is reporting: "South Africa has a new Covid variant" as if the variant started here and is infecting us all. CAN I SAY THIS… | 1,245 comments on LinkedIn
www.linkedin.com
ParaSeoul
Member
And it still appliesThat's a 3 months old post from LinkedIn
Graeme Codrington on LinkedIn: #proudlysouthafrican #fightingcovid19 #fightingfakenews #bsreporting | 1,245 comments
Once again the world's media is reporting: "South Africa has a new Covid variant" as if the variant started here and is infecting us all. CAN I SAY THIS… | 1,245 comments on LinkedIn
prinz_valium
Member
Not really. At the point the new SA variant wasn't already in all those countries mentioned in the post.And it still applies
And unlike the other SA variant, it's likely this SA variant really emerged in South Africa.
It nothing more but a good general rule of thumb advice and post.
lmao there are no cases of the variant in Brazil until now. I can read Portuguese - that is not true. However, it is inevitable that it will happen at some point.
MisterFalcon
Member
It's likely this variant is both more transmissible and deadly as it can more easily bind to human cells. If two or twenty times more people die as a result from infections is quite irrelevant for the virus, the main spread is in the period before symptoms set in.
And with a significant percentage of the population determined not to do anything to help stop the spread the more serious illness makes no difference, you just need to order some extra batches of HCA medals.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
That's incorrect and a mischaracterization of my position. I do see Covid as a significant danger, but I also see immense danger in the abysmal way the international community has reacted to it.
So much of what's going on is driven by politics not science. Mask mandates for instance have minimal effect on the spread of the disease because the weave density of a cloth mask is an open goal to such a small virus. Social distancing doesn't do much without good ventilation and yet we have people being arrested for being out in the open air where the sheer volume of air largely neutralizes its communicability.
Noone wants to talk about the undisputed fact that none of the vaccines provide complete protection from infection/reinfection (even from the same strain), or can accurately quantify the degree of transmissibility reduction being vaccinated offers - if any at all. Noone wants to talk about the known serious atypical responses to the vaccines (myoarditis from the mrna types, blood clots from the viral vector types), and most of all noone wants to admit that insufficient time has passed since their mass adoption to really know what -if any- long term issues may be as a result of the spike protein itself being cytotoxic.
All these inconvenient truths are being swept under the rug or outright suppressed because the political will is to drive vaccine adoption at all costs.
As I've said before, I'm double-vaxxed and mask up/social distance in all relevant situations. I'm not in denial about the health threat Covid poses! What I'm concerned about is everything else, particularly the political, economic and sociological impact of the response to Covid - because its a political shit-show. Bad policies cost lives.