Support NeoGAF

[Clear]

Sigh.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...-encourages-others-to-get-vaccinated-12507593

The sociology and psychology papers written about this pandemic are going to make bleak and quite unbelievable reading in decades to come.

How about discouraging obesity?

I knew before opening the article that the couple in question would be significantly overweight and most likely suffering from all the co-morbidities that entails.

I don't feel good about pointing this out, but fucking hell! Rather than trying to shame and terrify people into vaccinations all the time why not encourage people to improve their base-line health? Because however badly you get Covid, whatever pre-existing conditions you have compound the risk of severe outcomes.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I do not like Idiocracy anymore.

Their agenda is clear.

 

[purvispisgah]

How about discouraging obesity?

I knew before opening the article that the couple in question would be significantly overweight and most likely suffering from all the co-morbidities that entails.

I don't feel good about pointing this out, but fucking hell! Rather than trying to shame and terrify people into vaccinations all the time why not encourage people to improve their base-line health? Because however badly you get Covid, whatever pre-existing conditions you have compound the risk of severe outcomes.

People are so disconnected from the idea of proactively doing what they can to control their own health, and the social and economic environment they exist within actively pushes them toward gaining weight, especially women.

The West is just an economic zone where people are not encouraged to be the best version of themselves for themselves and the community.

And social media is the accelerant. Gas ok fire. Cancer fuel. Etc

 

[Malakhov]

Instead they do a numbers game .. like lives are numbers .. and easily recreated .. very sad this all.

Something we agree on. Unfortunately with major events like this, when numbers are high, it happens and it's really shitty

Especially since I lived it from the inside at a major hospital in the province and witnessed all the shitty decisions they've done, all the elderly they butchered and sent to die on their own.

I have no faith anymore in the health system we have, I didn't have much to begin with being a first observer but it has left me to quit it and start a new career instead. I don't want anything to do anymore and contribute to this massive death system they've placed the elderly and vulnerable ones in.

 

[Slaylock]

A few funny memes making the rounds...

 

[Malakhov]

How about discouraging obesity?

Because that's too hard, it actually requires effort from individuals. It is easier to go the easy route, taking a vaccine and staying indoor.

I've went from 210-215 pounds to 180 pounds through all of this, doing 18-22 km hikes with my girlfriend and get into shape while I was being told by a 300 lbs coworker I was an idiot for not getting a vaccine while she was chewing chips and mcdonalds at our lunch breaks.

But hey, she was the safest one in all of this!

I seriously would like to know how I would have coped with covid if I was still at 215 pounds and not active like I am now, but Ill never know.

 

[Rentahamster]

Got my booster on the 30th. Symptoms appeared on the 31st - assumed it was side effects from the booster.

Took a COVID test to confirm they were side effects that came in positive yesterday. Didn't leave my house since the booster due to feeling unwell, only to get my PCR test done.

You couldn't have caught the virus when going for your booster. That's too short of an incubation period. You already had a scratchy throat by Friday - the vaccine can potentially cause temporary symptoms, but it would be impossible for it to give you a scratchy throat since it's not in your throat at all.

While I can't rule out the possibility that the booster is exacerbating your symptoms, I think that's highly unlikely, especially since you didn't have much reaction to the first two. The most obvious cause of your symptoms is the most obvious cause - the virus itself. Take care out there, but you should be fine soon enough.

 

[FunkMiller]

People are so disconnected from the idea of proactively doing what they can to control their own health, and the social and economic environment they exist within actively pushes them toward gaining weight, especially women.

The West is just an economic zone where people are not encouraged to be the best version of themselves for themselves and the community.

And social media is the accelerant. Gas ok fire. Cancer fuel. Etc

… you mean like going and getting a vaccine for a respiratory virus?

 

[FunkMiller]

How about discouraging obesity?

I knew before opening the article that the couple in question would be significantly overweight and most likely suffering from all the co-morbidities that entails.

I don't feel good about pointing this out, but fucking hell! Rather than trying to shame and terrify people into vaccinations all the time why not encourage people to improve their base-line health? Because however badly you get Covid, whatever pre-existing conditions you have compound the risk of severe outcomes.

unvaccinated fat cunts: dead
vaccinated fat cunts: alive

 

[Rentahamster]

Not to mention that forcing people to live under curfew and such is the sort of draconian measure that would only be justified if we were facing a disease with the sort of potential for mortality as Smallpox or Bubonic plague.

You think these diseases justify draconian measures like living under curfews?

Smallpox cases reported worldwide

The historical number of smallpox cases reported is lower than the actual number of cases in those years, due to limited testing and reporting.

ourworldindata.org

Plague surveillance | CDC

Information on where plague cases occur in the United States, and how many have occurred in recent years.

www.cdc.gov

These diseases that hardly killed anyone in the last 20 years warrants draconian measures, but measure that mitigate COVID19, a disease that killed over 800,000 people in the most powerful country in the history of the world in under 2 years are beyond the pale?

Your perspective is a little bit skewed on this matter.

 

[FunkMiller]

You think these diseases justify draconian measures like living under curfews?

Smallpox cases reported worldwide

The historical number of smallpox cases reported is lower than the actual number of cases in those years, due to limited testing and reporting.

ourworldindata.org

Plague surveillance | CDC

Information on where plague cases occur in the United States, and how many have occurred in recent years.

www.cdc.gov

These diseases that hardly killed anyone in the last 20 years warrants draconian measures, but measure that mitigate COVID19, a disease that killed over 800,000 people in the most powerful country in the history of the world in under 2 years are beyond the pale?

Your perspective is a little bit skewed on this matter.

Wow. I wonder what the reason is for smallpox not being a bigger problem?

 

[Rentahamster]

If you can't think about this on your own and actually think it could be useful in any way, you're a lost cause and people like you makes me wish this turns into an apocalypse so we can get rid of these idiots eating this shit up without questioning themselves

For the record, I do not wish this turns into an apocalypse, and I've been doing whatever I can to prevent that from happening. All human life is precious, even the ones we think are idiots.

 

[purvispisgah]

unvaccinated fat cunts: dead
vaccinated fat cunts: alive

What is even the point of a post like this, other than to show you are a ghoulish person? If you truly want people to reconsider their stance on getting the vaccine, you might consider how you come off.

There might be people on the fence that read things like this and think something like, "this person seems so unpleasant, maybe what they are saying is actually bad for me."

 

[Clear]

unvaccinated fat cunts: dead
vaccinated fat cunts: alive

The stats don't bear that out unfortunately. I believe 2 shots + booster gives at best 70% reduction in chance of symptomatic Covid (Omicron).

Beyond that, we get into the realm of what we term as "severe disease", the floor for which is going to be drastically lower based on overall health, any immunosuppression (either natural or induced by medication... say chemo), and assorted cardio-vascular co-morbidities that can transform something as relatively mild as a chest infection into being potentially deadly.

Let alone the obvious potential risk of being vaccinated either while or a few days before being infected making the symptoms worse.

Don't kid yourself that there any certainties here.

 

[Rentahamster]

How about discouraging obesity?

I knew before opening the article that the couple in question would be significantly overweight and most likely suffering from all the co-morbidities that entails.

I don't feel good about pointing this out, but fucking hell! Rather than trying to shame and terrify people into vaccinations all the time why not encourage people to improve their base-line health? Because however badly you get Covid, whatever pre-existing conditions you have compound the risk of severe outcomes.

How about "We're already doing both" and you're not noticing it.

Fun fact: While both of those actions are highly encouraged to reduce one's risk from dying from COVID19, one of those actions requires a big lifestyle change along with a time commitment of months if not years. The other actions requires about an hour of your day, three times. Trying to put them on equal footing is a false equivalence.

 

[Malakhov]

unvaccinated fat cunts: dead
vaccinated fat cunts: alive

What is even the point of a post like this, other than to show you are a ghoulish person? If you truly want people to reconsider their stance on getting the vaccine, you might consider how you come off.

There might be people on the fence that read things like this and think something like, "this person seems so unpleasant, maybe what they are saying is actually bad for me."

Ah, thanks, knew I was missing someone from that circle jerk on the ignore list, and there he was, in all of his glory.

 

[T8SC]

Ah, thanks, knew I was missing someone from that circle jerk on the ignore list, and there he was, in all of his glory.

2 Funks 2 Furious.

 

[funkygunther]

Ah, thanks, knew I was missing someone from that circle jerk on the ignore list, and there he was, in all of his glory.

FunkMiller

 

[Rentahamster]

The stats don't bear that out unfortunately. I believe 2 shots + booster gives at best 70% reduction in chance of symptomatic Covid (Omicron).

Beyond that, we get into the realm of what we term as "severe disease", the floor for which is going to be drastically lower based on overall health, any immunosuppression (either natural or induced by medication... say chemo), and assorted cardio-vascular co-morbidities that can transform something as relatively mild as a chest infection into being potentially deadly.

Let alone the obvious potential risk of being vaccinated either while or a few days before being infected making the symptoms worse.

Don't kid yourself that there any certainties here.

Uh, the stats do bear that out. I'm not kidding myself that there's data to back this up.

Yes, COVID Vaccines Work in People With Obesity

The Obesity Society recommends any of the three available vaccines in the U.S.

www.medpagetoday.com

Using data from FDA briefing documents and peer-reviewed literature, Butsch's group looked at the efficacy for each available vaccine in the overall trial population and subgroups of people with obesity.

"Analysis of COVID-19 vaccine efficacy in certain disease subgroups has been difficult because the number of trial participants with the disease was too small," said co-author Alexandra Hajduk, PhD, MPH, of Yale School of Medicine in New Haven, Connecticut, in a statement.

"This was not the case for obesity. Because the prevalence of obesity among trial participants was high, and because obesity is highly associated with hospital admission and death in COVID-19, the trial results were able to show that, contrary to concerns of reduced vaccine efficacy in people with obesity, that the vaccines were just as efficacious among persons with obesity compared with persons without obesity," she added.

When this cohort was divided into those with and without obesity, the vaccine efficacy was 95.4% (95% CI 86.0-99.1) in 13,218 participants ages 16 and older (roughly 32% of the cohort) with a BMI of 30 or higher. Conversely, efficacy was 94.8% (95% CI 87.4-98.3) among the participants without obesity.

For the Moderna vaccine, the overall efficacy was 94.1% (95% CI 89.3-96.8) among participants without prior COVID infection. Among those with obesity, which was about 35% of the overall cohort, efficacy was 95.8% (95% CI 82.6-99.0). Taking that one step further, in a subgroup of participants with severe obesity -- a BMI of 40 or higher -- vaccine efficacy was 91.2% (95% CI 32.0-98.9). In the 901 participants with severe obesity, there was only one case of severe COVID-19 that occurred after vaccination versus 11 cases in 884 participants with severe obesity in the placebo group.

Finally, for the Janssen/Johnson & Johnson vaccine, vaccine efficacy was 66.1% (95% CI 55.0-74.8) for the prevention of moderate to severe or critical COVID-19 infection 28 days after vaccination.

This vaccine's trial included 12,492 participants with obesity, accounting for 29% of the overall cohort. For these participants specifically, efficacy was 66.8% (95% CI 54.1-76.3) 14 days after vaccination and 65.9% (95% CI 47.8-78.3) 28 days after vaccination.

"In addition to general misconceptions about the disease of obesity, speculation on the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines in obesity has certainly added to vaccine hesitancy in those individuals with obesity," Butsch said. "I hope this position statement not only will encourage those with and without obesity to get vaccinated, but to continue the conversations on the existing weight bias in our current health policies and poor coverage and reimbursement of effective treatments for obesity."

COVID‐19 vaccines are effective in people with obesity: A position statement from The Obesity Society

The position statement is issued by The Obesity Society in response to published literature, as well as inquiries made to the Society by patients, providers, Society members, policy makers, and other...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

 

[celsowmbr]

120 children hospitalized, province suspends Pfizer vaccine batch - VnExpress International

Thanh Hoa has suspended the use of a Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine batch after over 120 students were hospitalized following their inoculation.

e.vnexpress.net

 

[FunkMiller]

Ah, thanks, knew I was missing someone from that circle jerk on the ignore list, and there he was, in all of his glory.

 

[Clear]

Uh, the stats do bear that out. I'm not kidding myself that there's data to back this up.

Yes, COVID Vaccines Work in People With Obesity

The Obesity Society recommends any of the three available vaccines in the U.S.

www.medpagetoday.com

COVID‐19 vaccines are effective in people with obesity: A position statement from The Obesity Society

The position statement is issued by The Obesity Society in response to published literature, as well as inquiries made to the Society by patients, providers, Society members, policy makers, and other...

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Of course it worked in July, because that was pre Omicron which is specifically adapted to evade neutralizing antibodies. And given that neutralizing antibodies are the things that prevent symptomatic infection...

You could've saved yourself a load of copy/pasting by simply referencing the date of the article.

 

[funkygunther]

120 children hospitalized, province suspends Pfizer vaccine batch - VnExpress International

Thanh Hoa has suspended the use of a Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine batch after over 120 students were hospitalized following their inoculation.

e.vnexpress.net

I hope there’s a better explanation than “overreaction”

 

[FunkMiller]

What is even the point of a post like this, other than to show you are a ghoulish person? If you truly want people to reconsider their stance on getting the vaccine, you might consider how you come off.

There might be people on the fence that read things like this and think something like, "this person seems so unpleasant, maybe what they are saying is actually bad for me."

Mate, I don't a rat's ass what anyone anti-vax thinks of me or what I say. If someone's still dumb, selfish or arrogant enough to not just go and bloody get a safe and effective vaccine which helps to stop the spread of a respiratory virus, and keep other human beings safe then fuck 'em.

 

[Rentahamster]

Of course it worked in July, because that was pre Omicron which is specifically adapted to evade neutralizing antibodies. And given that neutralizing antibodies are the things that prevent symptomatic infection...

You could've saved yourself a load of copy/pasting by simply referencing the date of the article.

You think the difference between omicron and delta is that big that obesity wipes out all positive effects from the vaccine now?

And given that neutralizing antibodies are the things that prevent symptomatic infection...

You're moving the goalposts don't do that.

You could've saved yourself a load of copy/pasting by simply referencing the date of the article.

It's still relevant. Read up please.

 

[T8SC]

Number of doses required - 2.

 

[Rentahamster]

Number of doses required - 2.

For the trial period, under the conditions set by the study, these are the effects observed. Believe it or not.

 

[purvispisgah]

Mate, I don't a rat's ass what anyone anti-vax thinks of me or what I say. If someone's still dumb, selfish or arrogant enough to not just go and bloody get a safe and effective vaccine which helps to stop the spread of a respiratory virus, and keep other human beings safe then fuck 'em.

Ghoulish enough for you?

Then I would strongly recommend against continuing to post in this thread, because you are hurting your cause.

Obviously, your mind is made up. But can you really not see the possibility that someone might not have yet gotten vaccinated and not be "anti-vax"?

What if someone hasn't been vaccinated, is considering it and weighing it in their minds. They come into this thread to see what this community thinks, what's being discussed in the gargantuan thread that is often on the front page. And they find you coming off as a mean-spirited person. And for what? Credibility among those that already agree with you?

If you actually want to help people get vaccinated, either you should radically alter the tone and contents of your posts, or stop altogether. You are doing more harm than good.

 

[ntropy]

never forget: Surgisphere

 

[Rentahamster]

Then I would strongly recommend against continuing to post in this thread, because you are hurting your cause.

Obviously, your mind is made up. But can you really not see the possibility that someone might not have yet gotten vaccinated and not be "anti-vax"?

What if someone hasn't been vaccinated, is considering it and weighing it in their minds. They come into this thread to see what this community thinks, what's being discussed in the gargantuan thread that is often on the front page. And they find you coming off as a mean-spirited person. And for what? Credibility among those that already agree with you?

If you actually want to help people get vaccinated, either you should radically alter the tone and contents of your posts, or stop altogether. You are doing more harm than good.

You think his tone is what makes people anti-vax? Not the lies, misinformation, and propaganda that spreads fear, uncertainty, and doubt?

The people who think they are helping by disseminating information they think is correct but is actually wrong are doing more harm than good. Tone policing is a minor issue.

 

[T8SC]

You think his tone is what makes people anti-vax? Not the lies, misinformation, and propaganda that spreads fear, uncertainty, and doubt?

The people who think they are helping by disseminating information they think is correct but is actually wrong are doing more harm than good. Tone policing is a minor issue.

Maybe some people just don't want to have a vaccine through nothing more than they are healthy, fit and would rather live out their lives naturally? If a respiratory virus kills them, which could be flu and they aren't vaccinated against that either, then so be it, that's how their life has panned out.

Some people don't eat processed foods because they prefer a natural and healthy diet.


Just a thought ...

 

[Clear]

You think the difference between omicron and delta is that big that obesity wipes out all positive effects from the vaccine now?

All current research agrees that Omicron evades immunoglobulin (neutralizing) antibodies to a significant degree irrespective of whether prior immunity was generated by vaccination or natural infection. Detail here.

What this means is that you are going to get symptoms. Note I specified symptomatic Covid earlier.

The degree of severity of symptoms manifested are going to run on a spectrum between nothing of consequence to direly life threatening. And a variety of factors including the ones I mentioned earlier are going to dictate where along that distribution any given case falls.

The point is that these symptoms will have a far more damaging effect on a person with co-morbidities than on a person in perfect health assuming their initial exposure (viral load) is equal.

For a basic example, pain alone causes a wide variety of physiological effects, meaning that in a person with latent cardiac issues it can cause a heart-attack, a person with existing hypertension to have a stroke. Why do you think most deaths recorded are listed as "complications arising from Covid"?

Its because whole body (and indeed mind if you are a believer in a mind-body health linkage) fitness is a significant mitigating factor in surviving *ANY* sort of physical trauma.

Frankly on the subject of mind, I find it quite plausible that many cases of fatal outcomes of unvaccinated individuals arise in great part due to their aversion to conventional treatment generally making them hesitant (by reason of fear, pride or embarrassment) to seek intervention until they are already extremely ill.

 

[purvispisgah]

You think his tone is what makes people anti-vax? Not the lies, misinformation, and propaganda that spreads fear, uncertainty, and doubt?

The people who think they are helping by disseminating information they think is correct but is actually wrong are doing more harm than good. Tone policing is a minor issue.

I fundamentally disagree with it being a minor issue. I think humans, not all but most, make most of their decisions based on the composition of the groups that have made similar decisions. Therefore, I think tone when discussing this stuff is incredibly important.

I straight up don't want to be a part of a group that includes this dude FunkMiller. Whatever you think about me is what it is, but that's the truth.

I'm not expecting you or him to change their mind about Covid vaccines, I'm not even talking about that. But if you really care about getting people to get the vaccine, why not just talk about it in a compassionate way? What's the harm?

 

[Rentahamster]

Maybe some people just don't want to have a vaccine through nothing more than they are healthy, fit and would rather live out their lives naturally? If a respiratory virus kills them, which could be flu and they aren't vaccinated against that either, then so be it, that's how their life has panned out.

Some people don't eat processed foods because they prefer a natural and healthy diet.


Just a thought ...

Does that really address the heart of the issue though? A lot of those people are making these decisions based on faulty information and bad statistics. They also don't realize the population level effects an individual action can have if enough people do it. These things add up, and a critical mass occurs without many of us noticing.

Nevertheless, so be it, they made that choice, but they don't live on an island by themselves. They live in a community with other people whos rights and safety have to be respected too. If a person's actions is not only harmful to themselves but also to the community, those actions need to be checked.

 

[Rentahamster]

The stats don't bear that out unfortunately. I believe 2 shots + booster gives at best 70% reduction in chance of symptomatic Covid (Omicron).

Beyond that, we get into the realm of what we term as "severe disease", the floor for which is going to be drastically lower based on overall health, any immunosuppression (either natural or induced by medication... say chemo), and assorted cardio-vascular co-morbidities that can transform something as relatively mild as a chest infection into being potentially deadly.

All current research agrees that Omicron evades immunoglobulin (neutralizing) antibodies to a significant degree irrespective of whether prior immunity was generated by vaccination or natural infection. Detail here.

What this means is that you are going to get symptoms. Note I specified symptomatic Covid earlier.

The degree of severity of symptoms manifested are going to run on a spectrum between nothing of consequence to direly life threatening. And a variety of factors including the ones I mentioned earlier are going to dictate where along that distribution any given case falls.

The point is that these symptoms will have a far more damaging effect on a person with co-morbidities than on a person in perfect health assuming their initial exposure (viral load) is equal.

For a basic example, pain alone causes a wide variety of physiological effects, meaning that in a person with latent cardiac issues it can cause a heart-attack, a person with existing hypertension to have a stroke. Why do you think most deaths recorded are listed as "complications arising from Covid"?

Its because whole body (and indeed mind if you are a believer in a mind-body health linkage) fitness is a significant mitigating factor in surviving *ANY* sort of physical trauma.

I said stop moving the goalposts please. Let's try this again, with a more direct question.

Vaccinations, within six months of 2 doses, or within 3 months of 3 doses, highly reduce the chance of death for everyone, obese and non-obese alike, against all current variants of SARSCOV2. Agree or disagree?

 

[MisterFalcon]

Maybe some people just don't want to have a vaccine through nothing more than they are healthy, fit and would rather live out their lives naturally?

They should extend that principle to not going to the hospital if they do get double pneumonia but just tough it out naturally at home.

 

[T8SC]

Nevertheless, so be it, they made that choice, but they don't live on an island by themselves. They live in a community with other people whos rights and safety have to be respected too. If a person's actions is not only harmful to themselves but also to the community, those actions need to be checked.

Can both vaxxed & unvaxxed pass it on? Yes. So everyone is always putting others at "risk".

Yes there's a lot of false information out there, but considering some of the "official" stuff changes and contradicts itself too, maybe we should just let people (Adults) make up their own minds. Oh and lets quit the insulting anti-vaxxer shit that purvispisgah touched on. This topic, as said earlier, has been dehumanised (Actually it was dehumanised many months ago).

 

[T8SC]

They should extend that principle to not going to the hospital if they do get double pneumonia but just tough it out naturally at home.

Should they tough it out if they get a bad case of the flu also? The Flu jab isn't mandatory (We'll destroy your life/career until you get a jab) in my country.

 

[Rentahamster]

I fundamentally disagree with it being a minor issue. I think humans, not all but most, make most of their decisions based on the composition of the groups that have made similar decisions. Therefore, I think tone when discussing this stuff is incredibly important.

I straight up don't want to be a part of a group that includes this dude FunkMiller. Whatever you think about me is what it is, but that's the truth.

I'm not expecting you or him to change their mind about Covid vaccines, I'm not even talking about that. But if you really care about getting people to get the vaccine, why not just talk about it in a compassionate way? What's the harm?

There's no harm in doing that. But for a segment of the population, it doesn't work. 2 years of compassionate talk and that still hasn't moved the needle.

 

[Clear]

I said stop moving the goalposts please. Let's try this again, with a more direct question.

NO.

I just destroyed your argument with facts and logic and I need add nothing else.

If you are in bad shape any illness or trauma is going to be potentially more life threatening than if you were in good health. Vaccination isn't going to save you from a heart-attack or a stroke.

 

[purvispisgah]

There's no harm in doing that. But for a segment of the population, it doesn't work. 2 years of compassionate talk and that still hasn't moved the needle.

Would you consider the possibility that "compassionate talk" is the literal opposite of what many, if not most unvaccinated people hear\read? If the hypothetical unvaccinated person were to read the last few pages of this thread, who is the person that is:

1. Advocating for people to get vaccinated and,
2. Doing it in a compassionate way.

?

Because I don't see it now, and I haven't seen it on social media much at all. I see a lot of shaming, a lot of name calling, a lot of talking down, and not much compassion.

 

[Rentahamster]

Can both vaxxed & unvaxxed pass it on? Yes. So everyone is always putting others at "risk".

Yes, but vaccinated people pass it on less. They are also infectious for a less amount of time, which means that they have less opportunities to pass it on. There is a difference. There are also less of them that get infected, so there are less of them to pass it on. You can't think of this on an individual basis. There are exponentially increasing effects that ripple out to a population.

COVID Data Tracker

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.

covid.cdc.gov

Yes there's a lot of false information out there, but considering some of the "official" stuff changes and contradicts itself too, maybe we should just let people (Adults) make up their own minds. Oh and lets quit the insulting anti-vaxxer shit that purvispisgah purvispisgah touched on. This topic, as said earlier, has been dehumanised (Actually it was dehumanised many months ago).

Yes, official information can sometimes change and contradict itself, or even sometimes be flat out wrong. However, that is not nearly on the same level as false information that is being spread by people who have no credentials or are just making stuff up in order to sell their natural cures or whatever. Official information for the most part is based on carefully scrutinized data. This pandemic is new and there are a lot of things we are continuously learning, so our official information is not going to be 100% correct all the time. There will be mistakes and new data to correct those mistakes, so I would hope that our official guidelines change to reflect that updated information.

Should they tough it out if they get a bad case of the flu also? The Flu jab isn't mandatory (We'll destroy your life/career until you get a jab) in my country.

The flu shot isn't mandatory because the flu is more than an order of magnitude less deadly than COVID19. The flu doesn't grind society to a halt in the modern age. The last time it did that was back in 1917, and the COVID19 pandemic has so far killed more people than that one.

 

[T8SC]

Yes, but vaccinated people pass it on less. They are also infectious for a less amount of time, which means that they have less opportunities to pass it on. There is a difference. There are also less of them that get infected, so there are less of them to pass it on. You can't think of this on an individual basis. There are exponentially increasing effects that ripple out to a population.

COVID Data Tracker

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.

covid.cdc.gov

Yes, official information can sometimes change and contradict itself, or even sometimes be flat out wrong. However, that is not nearly on the same level as false information that is being spread by people who have no credentials or are just making stuff up in order to sell their natural cures or whatever. Official information for the most part is based on carefully scrutinized data. This pandemic is new and there are a lot of things we are continuously learning, so our official information is not going to be 100% correct all the time. There will be mistakes and new data to correct those mistakes, so I would hope that our official guidelines change to reflect that updated information.

The flu shot isn't mandatory because the flu is more than an order of magnitude less deadly than COVID19. The flu doesn't grind society to a halt in the modern age. The last time it did that was back in 1917, and the COVID19 pandemic has so far killed more people than that one.

I feel like a broken record as I've said this countless times in this topic, but why at this point aren't we dealing with Covid-19 like the NHS/UK do with the flu?

What is that you ask? You don't want to trawl back to my older posts, well its this:

The flu vaccine is given free on the NHS to people who:

• are 50 and over (including those who'll be 50 by 31 March 2022)
• have certain health conditions
• are pregnant
• are in long-stay residential care
• receive a carer's allowance, or are the main carer for an older or disabled person who may be at risk if you get sick
• live with someone who is more likely to get infections (such as someone who has HIV, has had a transplant or is having certain treatments for cancer, lupus or rheumatoid arthritis)
• frontline health or social care workers

Covid-19 is more deadly to old people, vulnerable with underlying conditions & the obese. Basically, the same as those recommended to get the flu jab in the above bullet points.

So why not let the other "adults" make up their own mind about it all? They are welcome to go get a flu jab if they want, but the media isn't scaremongering them into that, nor is the Gov shoving "GET BOOSTED" in their face & sending unwanted text messages to them.

I've had 2 jabs, I've not had a 3rd as currently I don't feel like I'm at risk, and I've not had so much as a blocked nose in the last two years, I also feel like my lung capacity is pretty good too to cope with a weak (Omicron) respiratory virus.

Yes I could pass it on to someone else, though reduced apparently because I've had 2 jabs, but considering we're back to face masks and distancing in public places, is that really a risk? If so, I better not drive my car or go for a walk.

 

[Rentahamster]

Vaccinations, within six months of 2 doses, or within 3 months of 3 doses, highly reduce the chance of death for everyone, obese and non-obese alike, against all current variants of SARSCOV2. Agree or disagree?

NO.

I just destroyed your argument with facts and logic and I need add nothing else.

If you are in bad shape any illness or trauma is going to be potentially more life threatening than if you were in good health. Vaccination isn't going to save you from a heart-attack or a stroke.

Not destroyed, since you're wrong.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1044481/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf

Stratified Cox proportional hazard regression was used to assess that the risk of presentation to emergency care or hospital admission with Omicron was approximately half of that for Delta (Hazard Ratio 0.53, 95% Confidence Interval (CI): 0.50 to 0.57). The risk of hospital admission alone with Omicron was approximately one-third of that for Delta (Hazard Ratio 0.33, 95% CI: 0.30 to 0.37). These analyses stratified on date of specimen and area of residence and further adjusted for age, sex, ethnicity, local area deprivation, international travel, vaccination status and whether the current infection was an identified re-infection (that is the individual had a previous PCR positive test). The risk of being admitted to hospital for Omicron cases was lower for those who had received 2 doses of a vaccine (65% lower) compared to those who had not received any vaccination (Table 4). The risk of being admitted to hospital for Omicron cases was lower still among those who had received 3 doses of vaccine (81% lower).

These analyses were not adjusted for co-morbidities of the cases and, furthermore, they do not represent in hospital severity, which will take further time to assess. Despite adjusting for calendar date, there may still be reporting delays affecting the completeness of hospital events. Preliminary sub-analyses estimated a lower risk of hospitalisation among Omicron cases in school-aged children (5 to 17 year olds) compared to Delta cases in the same age group (HR 0.42, 95% CI 0.28-0.63). It is important to highlight that these lower risks do not necessarily imply reduced hospital burden over the current epidemic wave, given the higher growth rate and immune evasion observed with Omicron.

Results for hospitalisations are shown in Table 5 and Table 6. One dose of vaccine was associated with a 35% reduced risk of hospitalisation among symptomatic cases with the Omicron variant, 2 doses with a 67% reduction up to 24 weeks after the second dose and a 51% reduced risk 25 or more weeks after the second dose, and a third dose was associated with a 68% reduced risk of hospitalisation. When combined with vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease this was equivalent to vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation of 52% after one dose, 72% 2 to 24 weeks after dose 2, 52% 25+ weeks after dose 2 and 88% 2+ weeks after a booster dose.

These estimates suggest that vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease with the Omicron variant is significantly lower than compared to the Delta variant and wanes rapidly. Nevertheless, protection against hospitalisation is much greater than that against symptomatic disease, in particular after a booster dose, where vaccine effectiveness against hospitalisation is close to 90%. Further data is needed to estimate the duration of protection against hospitalisation. Experience with previous variants suggests that this will be sustained longer than protection against symptomatic disease.

I just destroyed your argument with facts and logic and I need add nothing else.

Forgive me if I don't see the wisdom in your particular brand of logic since you said it was rational and logical to encourage natural infection instead of vaccines as a way of getting through this pandemic. You still haven't provided a proper explanation yet as to how that's logical despite me asking you directly multiple times.

 

[Rentahamster]

I feel like a broken record as I've said this countless times in this topic, but why at this point aren't we dealing with Covid-19 like the NHS/UK do with the flu?

What is that you ask? You don't want to trawl back to my older posts, well its this:

The flu vaccine is given free on the NHS to people who:

• are 50 and over (including those who'll be 50 by 31 March 2022)
• have certain health conditions
• are pregnant
• are in long-stay residential care
• receive a carer's allowance, or are the main carer for an older or disabled person who may be at risk if you get sick
• live with someone who is more likely to get infections (such as someone who has HIV, has had a transplant or is having certain treatments for cancer, lupus or rheumatoid arthritis)
• frontline health or social care workers

Covid-19 is more deadly to old people, vulnerable with underlying conditions & the obese. Basically, the same as those recommended to get the flu jab in the above bullet points.

So why not let the other "adults" make up their own mind about it all? They are welcome to go get a flu jab if they want, but the media isn't scaremongering them into that, nor is the Gov shoving "GET BOOSTED" in their face & sending unwanted text messages to them.

I've had 2 jabs, I've not had a 3rd as currently I don't feel like I'm at risk, and I've not had so much as a blocked nose in the last two years, I also feel like my lung capacity is pretty good too to cope with a weak (Omicron) respiratory virus.

Yes I could pass it on to someone else, though reduced apparently because I've had 2 jabs, but considering we're back to face masks and distancing in public places, is that really a risk? If so, I better not drive my car or go for a walk.

Yes I see what you're saying, and we can talk about that. However, could you first acknowledge the points I made and respond to that whether or not you agree or disagree please? It does no good if we keep moving on while leaving unsettled points behind. I also watched your video and responded to that too.

 

[Lady Redfield]

Our premier just revealed today the 'updated' restrictions and we have basically just been put back to exactly where we started in 2020 with indoor dining closed, no concerts, online classes, 5 people indoor max, 10 outside max, etc. for 21 days. Fucking hell.

 

[Clear]

Rentahamster

From your own citation:

These analyses were not adjusted for co-morbidities of the cases and, furthermore, they do not represent in hospital severity, which will take further time to assess.

Obesity is a co-morbidity.


Keep flailing.

 

[funkygunther]

Our premier just revealed today the 'updated' restrictions and we have basically just been put back to exactly where we started in 2020 with indoor dining closed, no concerts, online classes, 5 people indoor max, 10 outside max, etc. for 21 days. Fucking hell.

where’s this? I didn’t think Raccoon City had a premier

 

[T8SC]

Yes I see what you're saying, and we can talk about that. However, could you first acknowledge the points I made and respond to that whether or not you agree or disagree please? It does no good if we keep moving on while leaving unsettled points behind. I also watched your video and responded to that too.

Define "Fully vaccinated" which your graph states. Is that 2 jabs which was originally the case, or 3 now? or like Israel (and probably everywhere else in 2 months) 4 jabs?

Also, spreading is determined by mixing with others in both indoor (mainly) and outdoor environments and with constant restrictions in place, this reduces all of that from happening. Some people are basically working & living in their houses these days with everything delivered because their work/life situation has blended ... so should they get another jab if they dont mix?

 

[ntropy]