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[Physiognomonics]

This is the 6 months placedo controlled Pfizer study about vaccines efficiency and side effects. Here the (well hidden) link with the supplementary material tab where they give all the details about cause of deaths in both groups.

Six Month Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine

Background BNT162b2 is a lipid nanoparticle-formulated, nucleoside-modified RNA vaccine encoding a prefusion-stabilized, membrane-anchored SARS-CoV-2 full-length spike protein. BNT162b2 is highly efficacious against COVID-19 and is currently authorized for emergency use or conditional approval...

www.medrxiv.org

Here is as summary of the most interesting parts about that study: Deaths comparison in both groups:

We can say based on their own double study that their vaccine does indeed reduce probability of getting Covid, like experts say on the TV, but unfortunately increases probability of dying.

 

[FunkMiller]

I see we’ve lost a couple of the hardcore anti-vaxxers, after they slipped up and let their conspiracy theorist opinions come out properly. I never particularly like it when folks get banned, whatever their opinions, but I guess it’s inevitable when they finally say what they really think.

Feels like we’ve reached the point where the loons try their hardest to argue past the real point they’re trying to make to not get banned (the whole false moral high ground ‘won’t somebody think of the anti-vaxxers’ argument, for instance) until they just can’t help themselves.

And frankly, I’ve been one of the dumbasses that’s indulged them with their partial crankery, because they know they couldn’t go full crank. Lesson learned.

 

[funkygunther]

We can say based on their own double study that their vaccine does indeed reduce probability of getting Covid, like experts say on the TV, but unfortunately increases probability of dying.

this is why excess mortality figures for populations are so important to understand true cause and effect

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

This is the 6 months placedo controlled Pfizer study about vaccines efficiency and side effects. Here the (well hidden) link with the supplementary material tab where they give all the details about cause of deaths in both groups.

Six Month Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine

Background BNT162b2 is a lipid nanoparticle-formulated, nucleoside-modified RNA vaccine encoding a prefusion-stabilized, membrane-anchored SARS-CoV-2 full-length spike protein. BNT162b2 is highly efficacious against COVID-19 and is currently authorized for emergency use or conditional approval...

www.medrxiv.org

Here is as summary of the most interesting parts about that study: Deaths comparison in both groups:

We can say based on their own double study that their vaccine does indeed reduce probability of getting Covid, like experts say on the TV, but unfortunately increases probability of dying.

No, this is a bad analysis.

Once you unblind the study and allow voluntary cross over, it’s no longer a RCT.

The difference in deaths vs 16 to 15, but this was statistically not significant and the study was underpowered to detect differences in COVID mortality.

Once the cross over occurred, you can’t compare the two groups unless you use an intention to treat analysis (which you aren’t using). The paper doesn’t note exactly how many people crossed over, but given that the study sample was representative of the general population and that the cross over occurred during the roll out of the vaccine to the general public it’s safe to assume that the majority of the placebo group crossed over to the vaccine (likely close to 80%). That may leave you with more deaths in the vaccinated group (21 as you claim), but that’s simply because it’s a much larger group (bigger denominator).

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Nobody_Important]

This is the 6 months placedo controlled Pfizer study about vaccines efficiency and side effects. Here the (well hidden) link with the supplementary material tab where they give all the details about cause of deaths in both groups.

Six Month Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine

Background BNT162b2 is a lipid nanoparticle-formulated, nucleoside-modified RNA vaccine encoding a prefusion-stabilized, membrane-anchored SARS-CoV-2 full-length spike protein. BNT162b2 is highly efficacious against COVID-19 and is currently authorized for emergency use or conditional approval...

www.medrxiv.org

Here is as summary of the most interesting parts about that study: Deaths comparison in both groups:

We can say based on their own double study that their vaccine does indeed reduce probability of getting Covid, like experts say on the TV, but unfortunately increases probability of dying.

Actually the real world statistics refute that assumption of yours from start to finish. Every set of statistics from every country that has provided them has shown that the unvaccinated are being hospitalized at a higher rate than the vaccinated and are also dying at a higher rate than the vaccinated.


Having the vaccine is better than not having the vaccine. That is a proven fact at this point.

 

[caffeware]

 

[funkygunther]

first-day-on-the-job vibes right there

 

[Clear]

Whether you agree or disagree with that anaesthetist's stance, I think having a full and open public debate between scientists on the topic would go a long way in establishing confidence in any given policy choice.

 

[Jaysen]

”The protection I have from getting the virus is probably the same as someone who is vaccinated.”
You don’t have to resort to guesses, doctor, if you just do a little research. Because it’s false.

COVID Natural Immunity: What You Need to Know

Even if you’ve already had COVID-19, getting a coronavirus vaccine is recommended. These are the things you need to know about COVID natural immunity.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

 

[caffeware]

...

 

[caffeware]

first-day-on-the-job vibes right there

Yeah the Health Secretary seems to be a newbe

”The protection I have from getting the virus is probably the same as someone who is vaccinated.”
You don’t have to resort to guesses, doctor, if you just do a little research. Because it’s false.

are you a MD. cause he is. trust the experts.

 

[BadBurger]

Yeah the Health Secretary seems to be a newbe


are you a MD. cause he is. trust the experts.

Like moths to a flame. Is this like infrastructure week, but for those who parrot anti-vaxxers?

 

[Jaysen]

Yeah the Health Secretary seems to be a newbe


are you a MD. cause he is. trust the experts.

No, but I obviously did the research. He didn’t, which is why he couldn’t speak unequivocally.

 

[Nobody_Important]

are you a MD. cause he is. trust the experts.

Oh stop lol

 

[FunkMiller]

are you a MD. cause he is. trust the experts.

Everybody else: "trust the literally hundreds and hundreds of epidemiologists who are telling you to get the vaccine."

caffeware: "nah. I'll trust this one doctor, who isn't even an epidemiologist."

The anti-vaxxers on social media have turned poor old underqualified Dr Steve James into their latest pin up model

 

[plushyp]

 

[FireFly]

are you a MD. cause he is. trust the experts.

Experts being statisticians and epidemiologists.

 

[Nobody_Important]

God that story is so fucking funny. Karma is a bitch.

 

[chromhound]

*OMICRON MAY MARK END OF PANDEMIC, SOUTH AFRICAN RESEARCHERS SAY

 

[funkygunther]

*OMICRON MAY MARK END OF PANDEMIC, SOUTH AFRICAN RESEARCHERS SAY

OMGWOW

 

[Nobody_Important]

OMGWOW

CHECKMATE DOOMERS

 

[FunkMiller]

 

[prinz_valium]

Actually the real world statistics refute that assumption of yours from start to finish. Every set of statistics from every country that has provided them has shown that the unvaccinated are being hospitalized at a higher rate than the vaccinated and are also dying at a higher rate than the vaccinated.


Having the vaccine is better than not having the vaccine. That is a proven fact at this point.

Like all real world statistics on vaccine efficacy of all countries who provide them, refute the results of the clinic trials?

Must be because most trials were done during non wave covid times.
Interestingly enough, the Novovax trial was done during peak corona wave in the UK.

Winter 2020/21

 

[T8SC]

Logged in today to see 2 new banned members who were participants of this topic. I can't speak for Carlosrox as I didn't see many of his posts or interact with him but I am disappointed that Malakhov has been branded an Covid conspiracy theorist and permed. I personally did not feel he was anything of the sort, yes he questioned things and wasn't exactly pro-vaccine as others are, but I feel he's been treated quite harshly with that comment and the perm.

I'm only a small voice in a big pool so I don't expect anything to change, I do expect the regular pro-vaccine folk to say contrary to what I said above, which is a shame as I genuinely don't feel like he deserves that.

Unless I've missed something, then I expect there's to be a lot more bans coming from this topic with similar comments alongside. Probably best I and many others duck out from here before we end up with the same result.

 

[Jaysen]

Logged in today to see 2 new banned members who were participants of this topic. I can't speak for Carlosrox as I didn't see many of his posts or interact with him but I am disappointed that Malakhov has been branded an Covid conspiracy theorist and permed. I personally did not feel he was anything of the sort, yes he questioned things and wasn't exactly pro-vaccine as others are, but I feel he's been treated quite harshly with that comment and the perm.

I'm only a small voice in a big pool so I don't expect anything to change, I do expect the regular pro-vaccine folk to say contrary to what I said above, which is a shame as I genuinely don't feel like he deserves that.

Unless I've missed something, then I expect there's to be a lot more bans coming from this topic with similar comments alongside. Probably best I and many others duck out from here before we end up with the same result.

He literally posted conspiracy theories.

 

[T8SC]

He literally posted conspiracy theories.

I must've missed them. I've not been on here for about 24hrs.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Actually the real world statistics refute that assumption of yours from start to finish. Every set of statistics from every country that has provided them has shown that the unvaccinated are being hospitalized at a higher rate than the vaccinated and are also dying at a higher rate than the vaccinated.


Having the vaccine is better than not having the vaccine. That is a proven fact at this point.

I am assuming nothing. I am simply analysing Pfizer study about their vaccine.

 

[sinnergy]

The current explosion of infections with the Omicron variant in the US is causing a breakdown in basic functions and services across the country, with hospitals reaching capacity in Kansas, employee shortages in New York City..


Who would have thought

 

[caffeware]

big if true

Spoiler

What is going on?

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

I am assuming nothing. I am simply analysing Pfizer study about their vaccine.

But you did. The only way you can still compare death rates the way you did is if you assumed that only the two people who died crossed over to the vaccinated group, which is clearly a ridiculous assumption.

 

[FunkMiller]

Logged in today to see 2 new banned members who were participants of this topic. I can't speak for Carlosrox as I didn't see many of his posts or interact with him but I am disappointed that Malakhov has been branded an Covid conspiracy theorist and permed. I personally did not feel he was anything of the sort, yes he questioned things and wasn't exactly pro-vaccine as others are, but I feel he's been treated quite harshly with that comment and the perm.

I'm only a small voice in a big pool so I don't expect anything to change, I do expect the regular pro-vaccine folk to say contrary to what I said above, which is a shame as I genuinely don't feel like he deserves that.

Unless I've missed something, then I expect there's to be a lot more bans coming from this topic with similar comments alongside. Probably best I and many others duck out from here before we end up with the same result.

Dude. Just don’t post conspiracy theory nonsense. It’s as easy as that.

For instance… don’t straight out state that you think covid patient numbers are being falsified to make things seem worse than they are. It’s batshit, conspiracy theory lunacy.

 

[Leyasu]

big if true

Spoiler

What is going on?

They are demonstrating against the new vaccination passport that the wannabe dictator Macron wants to bring in.

Nothing to do with antifa or any shit like that

 

[Leyasu]

*OMICRON MAY MARK END OF PANDEMIC, SOUTH AFRICAN RESEARCHERS SAY

Let’s fucking hope so. It would be great if omicrons sons and daughters continue down the benign evolutionary path.

We will have to get through this wave though. Even with a less lethal strain circulating, the sheer numbers will mean lots of people in hospital.

One other thing though, although omicron is dominant in France where I am, delta is still circulating and doesn’t seem like it will go away just yet. We have got to hope that omicron doesn’t blow its load before delta disappears.

 

[T8SC]

Dude. Just don’t post conspiracy theory nonsense. It’s as easy as that.

For instance… don’t straight out state that you think covid patient numbers are being falsified to make things seem worse than they are. It’s batshit, conspiracy theory lunacy.

I did write a longer response to this but it was too long winded, so I've shortened it to - I don't like walking on eggshells but I do like to question things.

This topic will be a lot quieter without the 2 way discussions but, eggshells.

Stay Frosty Funky.

 

[FunkMiller]

I did write a longer response to this but it was too long winded, so I've shortened it to - I don't like walking on eggshells but I do like to question things.

This topic will be a lot quieter without the 2 way discussions but, eggshells.

Stay Frosty Funky.

Questioning is fine, dude. Carry on. And I don’t think anyone here ever walks on eggshells.

But stating clear misinformation with absolutely no evidence to back it up… beyond maybe some dumb ass social media posts, isn’t okay. That should really go without saying.

 

[Jaysen]

Let’s fucking hope so. It would be great if omicrons sons and daughters continue down the benign evolutionary path.

We will have to get through this wave though. Even with a less lethal strain circulating, the sheer numbers will mean lots of people in hospital.

One other thing though, although omicron is dominant in France where I am, delta is still circulating and doesn’t seem like it will go away just yet. We have got to hope that omicron doesn’t blow its load before delta disappears.

Nice thing about Omicron is it appears to give people immunity to the much stronger Delta.

 

[DragoonKain]

Has anyone listened to the Rogan Dr. Malone episode in its entirety? Not random 20 second clips, since those are almost always taken out of context. I didn’t listen to it, because frankly, I’m all COVID podcast’d out right now, and I see the typical people say he’s spreading misinformation again, but I want to know if that’s actually the case or is it reaching like it often is. As far as I know, Dr. Malone is pro vaccine.

 

[Kilau]

Nice thing about Omicron is it appears to give people immunity to the much stronger Delta.

Even Covid is tired of Covid, vaccinating the holdouts itself.

 

[12Goblins]

Logged in today to see 2 new banned members who were participants of this topic. I can't speak for Carlosrox as I didn't see many of his posts or interact with him but I am disappointed that Malakhov has been branded an Covid conspiracy theorist and permed. I personally did not feel he was anything of the sort, yes he questioned things and wasn't exactly pro-vaccine as others are, but I feel he's been treated quite harshly with that comment and the perm.

I'm only a small voice in a big pool so I don't expect anything to change, I do expect the regular pro-vaccine folk to say contrary to what I said above, which is a shame as I genuinely don't feel like he deserves that.

Unless I've missed something, then I expect there's to be a lot more bans coming from this topic with similar comments alongside. Probably best I and many others duck out from here before we end up with the same result.

he was making conspiratorial claims that he couldn't back up with any sources, on top of insulting someone that actually took the time to help him understand how thing work. however the most offensive part was his spelling IMO

 

[plushyp]

he was making conspiratorial claims that he couldn't back up with any sources, on top of insulting someone that actually took the time to help him understand how thing work. however the most offensive part was his spelling IMO

You while writing this post:

 

[tommolb]

Seem to be a few articles on the Guardian today mentioning "learning to live with Covid" so I'm cynically thinking if this is co-ordinated start to setting a narrative;

Omicron could be ‘first ray of light’ towards living with Covid

UK government scientist predicts possibility of less severe variant but warns ‘we’re not there yet’

www.theguardian.com

End mass jabs and live with Covid, says ex-head of vaccine taskforce

Dr Clive Dix says we should treat the virus like flu

www.theguardian.com

I do kind of think this is a bit premature, given we've got 15k in hospital with Covid currently (source : https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk) even if a lot of these are in hospital for something else and just happen to have Covid. I'm not quite sure Flu or the common cold result in 15k people in hospital at any one time? I'd have preferred such talk to wait until we pass the peak of Omicron and the NHS wasn't under such stress TBH.

I guess though, once this wave wanes (mid-Feb to March is my guess) they'll be an end to mass vaccination and lifting of all restrictions. Most will be keen to forget the last two years and move on, so talk of "learning to live with it" and treating it like Flu will find favour with the majority of people who just want to ditch masks, go on holiday without tests and quarantines and have social lives again.

We do seem to have significant variants that wipe out all others crop up every six months though (Alpha Nov/Dec 2020, Delta April/May 2021, Omicron Nov 2021) so I'll personally rest easier if the next one is less serious than Omicron.

I can see myself paying £20 for a Covid Booster next Winter regardless, 'cos I'm still going to be wary even if Covid continues it's path to becoming much less serious. I work in an office, were colds and flu spread like wildfire, especially given the culture made people feel obliged to come in when ill due to staff levels being cut to the bone and no-one else being available to do the work.

 

[TDiddyLive]

I can see myself paying £20 for a Covid Booster next Winter regardless, 'cos I'm still going to be wary even if Covid continues it's path to becoming much less serious.

That pricing is some wishful thinking. The US Government is paying about $20 per shot at an insane bulk discount. The private market price is closer to $200. And that’s not including the actual administration of the shot.

How much does the Pfizer vaccine cost?

AS more Americans continue to get vaccinated against coronavirus, US states have proceeded to lift Covid restrictions. As of June 2021, over a 140million Americans are fully vaccinated, or 42.3 per…

www.the-sun.com

 

[Jaysen]

Even Covid is tired of Covid, vaccinating the holdouts itself.

That’s the upside of how transmissible Omicron is. It’s going to kill a ton more anti-vax idiots, but for the rest it’s going to make them less likely to be spreaders when they’re out without masks or distancing properly. At least for a few months.

 

[funkygunther]

Seem to be a few articles on the Guardian today mentioning "learning to live with Covid" so I'm cynically thinking if this is co-ordinated start to setting a narrative;

Omicron could be ‘first ray of light’ towards living with Covid

UK government scientist predicts possibility of less severe variant but warns ‘we’re not there yet’

www.theguardian.com

End mass jabs and live with Covid, says ex-head of vaccine taskforce

Dr Clive Dix says we should treat the virus like flu

www.theguardian.com

I do kind of think this is a bit premature, given we've got 15k in hospital with Covid currently (source : https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk) even if a lot of these are in hospital for something else and just happen to have Covid. I'm not quite sure Flu or the common cold result in 15k people in hospital at any one time? I'd have preferred such talk to wait until we pass the peak of Omicron and the NHS wasn't under such stress TBH.

I guess though, once this wave wanes (mid-Feb to March is my guess) they'll be an end to mass vaccination and lifting of all restrictions. Most will be keen to forget the last two years and move on, so talk of "learning to live with it" and treating it like Flu will find favour with the majority of people who just want to ditch masks, go on holiday without tests and quarantines and have social lives again.

We do seem to have significant variants that wipe out all others crop up every six months though (Alpha Nov/Dec 2020, Delta April/May 2021, Omicron Nov 2021) so I'll personally rest easier if the next one is less serious than Omicron.

I can see myself paying £20 for a Covid Booster next Winter regardless, 'cos I'm still going to be wary even if Covid continues it's path to becoming much less serious. I work in an office, were colds and flu spread like wildfire, especially given the culture made people feel obliged to come in when ill due to staff levels being cut to the bone and no-one else being available to do the work.

learning to live with it is inevitable, and even if we want to treat it like the flu it’s still another flu, on top of the seasonal viruses we already deal with…but if the NHS can cope then it’ll be boosters for vulnerable and like you said, private boosters or just get on with it for everyone else

UK government‘s hold, hold, hold strategy to lockdowns seems to have worked but yeah it’s still a little too early to tell, let’s get to March/April and see where we are

 

[tommolb]

That pricing is some wishful thinking. The US Government is paying about $20 per shot at an insane bulk discount. The private market price is closer to $200. And that’s not including the actual administration of the shot.

How much does the Pfizer vaccine cost?

AS more Americans continue to get vaccinated against coronavirus, US states have proceeded to lift Covid restrictions. As of June 2021, over a 140million Americans are fully vaccinated, or 42.3 per…

www.the-sun.com

Flu jab costs about £15-ish I think. £150 to £200 would price everyone but the very rich out of the market for it, so I cannot see it being priced that high.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Leyasu]

Nice thing about Omicron is it appears to give people immunity to the much stronger Delta.

Is that true?


Because in Cyprus for example they have found at least 25 cases of people that are infected with both delta and omicron at the same time

 

[ntropy]

That’s the upside of how transmissible Omicron is. It’s going to kill a ton more anti-vax idiots, but for the rest it’s going to make them less likely to be spreaders when they’re out without masks or distancing properly. At least for a few months.

 

[Schattenjäger]

The current explosion of infections with the Omicron variant in the US is causing a breakdown in basic functions and services across the country, with hospitals reaching capacity in Kansas, employee shortages in New York City..


Who would have thought

New, Preliminary State Data Shows Half of People In NYC Hospitals with COVID-19 Were Admitted for Other Reasons

The state issued the numbers Friday after Gov. Kathy Hochul said this week she would ask hospitals to track patients who were not admitted for Covid, but were later diagnosed.

gothamist.com