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[poppabk]

No. You have to judge the states in their totality. New York had a large number of their vulnerable population die in the first wave. To exclude that is to skew the stats in favor of a particular conclusion. If Florida ultimately ends up with a lower rate of death from
Covid despite the lack of restrictions and mandates, that’s just the reality.

You are trying to parse the data fit a narrative. The fact is that skimming 40%(!) of a state’s total deaths is skewing the data. That’s not even up for debate. There is no way to do that that isn’t dishonest unless you acknowledge it up front.

But none of the disparity in that early phase is due to less or more stringent lockdowns so it also doesn't make sense to include it in data evaluating that.

 

[DeepBreath87]

But none of the disparity in that early phase is due to less or more stringent lockdowns so it also doesn't make sense to include it in data evaluating that.

Excluding 40% of the death toll in New York basically makes whatever point he was trying to make irrelevant. I don’t see how you could be confused about that.

 

[Kraz]

“Additionally, he says, the haters have come from both sides of the issue, with convoy supporters ganging up first when they thought he was moving the structure as part of a police effort, followed by the anti-convoy contingent when it became clear he supported the protest.”

“Anti-protestors, he says, have called to say they hope he and his children get COVID, or have intimidated him by reciting his home address over the phone.”

Sounds like that guy is caught in the middle actually.

Not doubt some said that, although you didn't quote the part where antiprotestors said:

“They’re saying I’m a traitor to my country and unpatriotic, that I’m a loser and that I want to deal with the vermin downtown.”


He did chose a side before the tow. It's in the article. The protestors. The police redirected his tow on route

According to May, the structure was initially supposed to be moved to a location in Vars, but police told him en route to take it to the parking lot at the Ottawa stadium. Upon hearing that, May says the convoy organizer who was riding with him said, “Randy, if you do that, I’m going to wreck you and your company.”

He's not in the middle. He doesn't want consequences for his decision.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Not doubt some said that, although you didn't quote the part where antiprotestors said:

“They’re saying I’m a traitor to my country and unpatriotic, that I’m a loser and that I want to deal with the vermin downtown.”


He did chose a side before the tow. It's in the article. The protestors. The police redirected his tow on route



He's not in the middle. He doesn't want consequences for his decision.

Ah. So those death threats are justified then? See what I mean about you not being able to judge this rationally?

 

[poppabk]

Excluding 40% of the death toll in New York basically makes whatever point he was trying to make irrelevant. I don’t see how you could be confused about that.

Because the point is about how different restriction practices and lockdowns effected the death toll between the two states. Deaths during the period when the two states had the same restriction practices and lockdowns are therefore not relevant data.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Because the point is about how different restriction practices and lockdowns effected the death toll between the two states. Deaths during the period when the two states had the same restriction practices and lockdowns are therefore not relevant data.

Yes, but if you eliminate 40% of one death toll in order the make that point, the point is lost. I’m not sure why this is difficult to understand. The length you need to go to in order to make that point is too great for it to be an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Kraz]

Ah. So those death threats are justified then? See what I mean about you not being able to judge this rationally?

Don't exaggerate. You just can't keep yourself from being stupid.
No reported death threats in the article. Some bad wishes and reading address, "hopes of getting sick", not great but not that serious. Police will give it the attention it deserves.

The end result after the bluster from anti-protestors is going to be as put in the article:

Meanwhile, many of his regular customers who don’t support the protest have called to voice their displeasure. “This has hurt business, absolutely.”

 

[DeepBreath87]

Don't exaggerate. You just can't keep yourself from being stupid.
No reported death threats in the article. Some bad wishes and reading address, "hopes of getting sick", not great but not that serious. Police will give it the attention it deserves.

The end result after the bluster from anti-protestors is going to be as put in the article:

You left out the part where they read his address to him, which is a pretty clear passive aggressive threat. I think it’s also pretty clear you have a tough time discussing this even a hint of objectivity. Now you’re resorting to calling me stupid, which always a sign that you’re struggling to compose yourself. Maybe take a break.

 

[Kraz]

You left out the part where they read his address to him, which is a pretty clear passive aggressive threat. I think it’s also pretty clear you have a tough time discussing this even a hint of objectivity. Now you’re resorting to calling me stupid, which always a sign that you’re struggling to compose yourself. Maybe take a break.

That isn't a death threat.

When the tow truck companies were first threatened to not get involved was the first problem. Taking care of the first one will take care of the escalating second.

Now you’re resorting to calling me stupid, which always a sign that you’re struggling to compose yourself. Maybe take a break.

You have no idea what you're talking about on this matter and are playing a LARP.

 

[DeepBreath87]

When the tow truck companies were first threatened to not get involved was the first problem. Taking care of the first one will take care of the escalating second.

You are trying so hard to excuse one side of this. Obviously anyone threatening to harm anyone was out of line here. That you are struggling to see this speaks to what I’ve already told you about your ability to discuss this topic.

 

[Rentahamster]

So just to boil that down, you skewed your data by removing the first 100k deaths which were largely concentrated in New York. You say so right at the top of the charts you made. If you didn’t do that, you would see that per capita, Florida is actually 18th in overall death rate while New York is 6th.

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

By removing the first 100k deaths, you removed almost 30k deaths from New York. Comparatively, you removed about 2000 from Florida. Not exactly fair to remove New York’s largest spike in death but include everyone else’s. You didn’t count 40% of New York’s overall deaths. Shady stuff.

Essentially you had to change the starting point to make the data say what you wanted because the reality is that overall, Florida actually has had fewer deaths per capita than New York despite and overall older population and far less restrictions.

Can't be arsed to read the footnotes, huh? Here you go -

Remember how I said

(not completely apples to apples comparison since the population sizes and densities are different)

It's because NYC is one of the most populous, most densest, and most internationally exposed mega city in the world, and that makes it its own beast and difficult to make one to one comparisons. Look what happens when you include it.

You'd think that just by looking at this graph, it would suggest that NYC might have pulled a Florida or an Alabama too, but that is the kind of reality that can happen to a large dense population that harbors a virus that gets more dangerous the larger and denser its host population is. They did more than a lot of other US cities did, but that is a relatively low bar, and they still suffered heavy casualties duet to its size. Compare that to Tokyo (a more apt comparison if you're only considering populous megacities, with about 3K overall deaths vs NYC's 39K), which has an even more massive and dense population, but relatively few deaths because they have a greater culture of masking and social distancing when sick, and better overall healthcare coverage. All this despite having access to the vaccines at a much later date. Also compare to London, which has about the same population, but is half as dense (about 15K to 20K deaths).

Even when I take out NY state and include the next most populous states, the point is still the same.

The lower vaccinated states are near the top PA (66% fully vaccinated) FL (66%) OH (57%) IL (67%) , while California (70%) has the least people dying and arguably had the strongest mitigation plan.

This is why I included multiple data points and multiple angles of analysis, yet you focused in on one thing that you misunderstood then and ignored everything else. Anything to say about the other states? Anything to say about the states that were grouped by elderly population? Anything to say about the numerous cited studies that suggest that masks work? Nothing about how a lot of the states above the average US per capita death toll have some common characteristics about how they approached this pandemic?

Cumulative COVID-19 Cases and Deaths

The Kaiser Family Foundation website provides in-depth information on key health policy issues including Medicaid, Medicare, health reform, global health, HIV/AIDS, health insurance, the uninsured …

www.kff.org

Oh? Did I shave off 40% of the deaths from a state to try and claim it had a better outcome than it actually did?

 

[Kraz]

You are trying so hard to excuse one side of this. Obviously anyone threatening to harm anyone was out of line here. That you are struggling to see this speaks to what I’ve already told you about your ability to discuss this topic.

No you are trying to justify one side and I'm clarifying the situation for you since you are completely ignorant of it beyond your larp.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Can't be arsed to read the footnotes, huh? Here you go -

Remember how I said



It's because NYC is one of the most populous, most densest, and most internationally exposed mega city in the world, and that makes it its own beast and difficult to make one to one comparisons. Look what happens when you include it.

You'd think that just by looking at this graph, it would suggest that NYC might have pulled a Florida or an Alabama too, but that is the kind of reality that can happen to a large dense population that harbors a virus that gets more dangerous the larger and denser its host population is. They did more than a lot of other US cities did, but that is a relatively low bar, and they still suffered heavy casualties duet to its size. Compare that to Tokyo (a more apt comparison if you're only considering populous megacities, with about 3K overall deaths vs NYC's 39K), which has an even more massive and dense population, but relatively few deaths because they have a greater culture of masking and social distancing when sick, and better overall healthcare coverage. All this despite having access to the vaccines at a much later date. Also compare to London, which has about the same population, but is half as dense (about 15K to 20K deaths).

Even when I take out NY state and include the next most populous states, the point is still the same.

The lower vaccinated states are near the top PA (66% fully vaccinated) FL (66%) OH (57%) IL (67%) , while California (70%) has the least people dying and arguably had the strongest mitigation plan.

This is why I included multiple data points and multiple angles of analysis, yet you focused in on one thing that you misunderstood then and ignored everything else. Anything to say about the other states? Anything to say about the states that were grouped by elderly population? Anything to say about the numerous cited studies that suggest that masks work? Nothing about how a lot of the states above the average US per capita death toll have some common characteristics about how they approached this pandemic?

Cumulative COVID-19 Cases and Deaths

The Kaiser Family Foundation website provides in-depth information on key health policy issues including Medicaid, Medicare, health reform, global health, HIV/AIDS, health insurance, the uninsured …

www.kff.org

You did exactly what I said you did: excluded 40% of New York’s death toll because it didn’t fit your narrative and then pretended you had a point. Then you wrote another weird dissertation to try and justify it. But we are on NeoGaf, not trying to get our doctorates, so I’ll leave you to write another essay trying to get around the fact you can’t exclude 40% of the total death toll of one state and still pretend it’s a remotely reasonable comparison.

I also think it rich that someone who is a desperate as you clearly are to win internet arguments would pretend to exasperated. You have written novels about on a video game forum. Complete with charts and graphs. On a video game forum. And you are rolling your eyes at anyone? I know self awareness is hard for you, but try having some.

 

[Rentahamster]

You did exactly what I said you did: excluded 40% of New York’s death toll because it didn’t fit your narrative and then pretended you had a point.

If it's such a carefully constructed narrative that critically hinges on "fudging" NY state's numbers, then please explain why the point still stands even when you take it out?

Also, don't ignore the elderly state comparison since you thought that was important too.

also think it rich that someone who is a desperate as you clearly are to win internet arguments would pretend to exasperated. You have written novels about on a video game forum. Complete with charts and graphs. On a video game forum.

Am I the only one here who has an appreciation for thorough data analysis and proper debate? The "it's just a video game forum bro" excuse is worn and tired.

 

[Kraz]

Ottawa police form new command centre with RCMP, OPP to respond to downtown protest

Ottawa police say they are waiting for reinforcements to arrive to implement their 'plan to end this unlawful occupation' that has taken over downtown Ottawa streets for a third weekend.

ottawa.ctvnews.ca

"Safety concerns - arising from aggressive, illegal behaviour by many demonstrators - limited police enforcement capabilities," Ottawa police said.
Earlier in the day, police said they were waiting for reinforcements to arrive to implement their "plan to end this unlawful occupation."
"Overnight, demonstrators exhibited aggressive behaviour towards law enforcement including refusing to follow directions, overwhelming officers, and otherwise subverting enforcement efforts," police said in a statement.
"We have a plan to end this unlawful occupation and await the necessary reinforcements to do so."

Two councillors are calling on police and governments to do more to end the 16-day demonstration that has forced the closures of roads and businesses in the downtown core.
Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney is calling on Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Mayor Jim Watson to take action immediately.
"Prime Minister: the federal government must immediately provide the 1800 resources that have been requested. You told the City to ask. We did. You must deliver. Take control of your capital," McKenney wrote on Twitter.
"Mayor Watson: the City of Ottawa is paralyzed and unable to contain and end the occupation. Put in place a leader who will apply all necessary measures to end this. Take control of your city."
Coun. Jeff Leiper is calling on the Ottawa police to "close down the fun fair."
"The siege zone has been allowed to become more welcoming to occupiers rather than less. @OttawaPolice, so long as they are entrenched downtown, the lawlessness is being felt across the city and no one is safe," said Leiper on Twitter.
Ottawa police say there are 140 criminal investigations underway into the demonstration. As of Saturday at 10:30 a.m., police had made 26 arrests, while police and Bylaw Services officers had issued 2,600 tickets.

 

[TDiddyLive]

You did exactly what I said you did: excluded 40% of New York’s death toll because it didn’t fit your narrative and then pretended you had a point. Then you wrote another weird dissertation to try and justify it. But we are on NeoGaf, not trying to get our doctorates, so I’ll leave you to write another essay trying to get around the fact you can’t exclude 40% of the total death toll of one state and still pretend it’s a remotely reasonable comparison.

I also think it rich that someone who is a desperate as you clearly are to win internet arguments would pretend to exasperated. You have written novels about on a video game forum. Complete with charts and graphs. On a video game forum. And you are rolling your eyes at anyone? I know self awareness is hard for you, but try having some.

This topic has a handful of people who deemed themselves the gatekeepers of information. If you post anything that varies even slightly from their opinion, instead of looking at it critically, they bombard you with links that don’t actual counter what you are saying but try and give themselves point. This continues until you get sick of running in circles without getting any meaningful counter arguments that you just drop it and they get their internet win and move on to the next person posting.

I made a point about cloth masks being pretty crappy at stopping Covid. Only cloth masks, as surgical and N95 actually work decently well. I was bombarded with comments about how wrong the article I posted was, including the counter argument linking a study showing the cloth masks were less effective than what I linked to. One person felt the need to back seat mod in a comment.

I just figured I posted my piece, let people think for themselves and come up with their own conclusions with the info available to them. I don’t need an internet win. I’ll focus on real life instead.

 

[Rentahamster]

I made a point about cloth masks being pretty crappy at stopping Covid. Only cloth masks, as surgical and N95 actually work decently well. I was bombarded with comments about how wrong the article I posted was, including the counter argument linking a study showing the cloth masks were less effective than what I linked to.

I also showed you that the clarification is that cloth masks are not as good as N95, but they're not "crappy" either. They're still better than nothing. I gave you multiple points of data to look at. I also explained to you how you interpreted that study wrong. I'm trying to help you make sense of the data.

 

[TDiddyLive]

I also showed you that the clarification is that cloth masks are not as good as N95, but they're not "crappy" either. They're still better than nothing. I gave you multiple points of data to look at. I also explained to you how you interpreted that study wrong. I'm trying to help you make sense of the data.

Oh good. Someone came in to tell me I’m wrong after they provided a link strengthening my argument.

 

[Rentahamster]

Oh good. Someone came in to tell me I’m wrong after they provided a link strengthening my argument.

It's not strengthening your argument. I explained to you that the conclusion you reached that "strengthened" your argument is an unjustified one that isn't what the data suggests. You misinterpreted it.

 

[DeepBreath87]

If it's such a carefully constructed narrative that critically hinges on "fudging" NY state's numbers, then please explain why the point still stands even when you take it out?

Also, don't ignore the elderly state comparison since you thought that was important too.


Am I the only one here who has an appreciation for thorough data analysis and proper debate? The "it's just a video game forum bro" excuse is worn and tired.

What’s worn and tired are the books you write. No one is fooled by your bullshit. It’s tiresome. But please. Keep wasting your breathe. No one is reading your shit. The only reason I recognized you had misrepresented the New York data is because I’m marginally aware of what the actual numbers are. You got caught trying to pass off a chart that chopped off 40% of the deaths in New York as some kind of reasonable data. Which was and is ridiculous. Your inability own that and go off on some diatribe instead is on you. Have a nice day.

 

[Rentahamster]

What’s worn and tired are the books you write. No one is fooled by your bullshit. It’s tiresome. But please. Keep wasting your breathe. No one is reading your shit. The only reason I recognized you had misrepresented the New York data is because I’m marginally aware of what the actual numbers are. You got caught trying to pass off a chart that chopped off 40% of the deaths in New York as some kind of reasonable data. Which was and is ridiculous. Your inability own that and go off on some diatribe instead is on you. Have a nice day.

Please don't get triggered because you didn't read the footnotes. Please also answer the questions because ignoring the data that puts your claims at odds is not a compelling way to prove that you're right.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Please don't get triggered because you didn't read the footnotes. Please also answer the questions because ignoring the data that puts your claims at odds is not a compelling way to prove that you're right.

“Look at my footnotes!!” Give me a break.

 

[TDiddyLive]

It's not strengthening your argument. I explained to you that the conclusion you reached that "strengthened" your argument is an unjustified one that isn't what the data suggests. You misinterpreted it.

I posted a link showing cloth masks only block 25% of Covid particles. You then counter with a link showing cloth masks only block 17% of Covid particles. There was nothing to misinterpret.
But you know what? You need an internet win. Just go ahead and reply so you get the last word and therefore win.

 

[Rentahamster]

“Look at my footnotes!!” Give me a break.

Let me put them into neatly organized paragraphs so it's easier for you to digest.

1. You said that Florida was doing great despite the elderly population. I showed you a graph that shows the top 5 oldest states by population in America, and that Florida is actually not doing great. By a lot. Any explanation?

2. Because it's wise to do multiple angles of comparison, I also compiled a graph that organized the states by size, which also shows Florida not doing so great. Because NYC is an outlier, due to it being a huge 8 million population megacity, it was left off of consideration. Without NYC none of New York's other cities are over 1 million population, just like Florida. Any explanation?

3. Because you have a problem with the method of number 2, I additionally helpfully compiled a second graph that doesn't include New York State, but it still suggest the same point nonetheless. Any explanation?

4. I also showed you multiple sources of data that suggests masks work, despite your claim that they are minimally effective. Any explanation?


If you have data that actually supports the points your making, I'll take a look, but you didn't provide any. In any sort of evidence-based discussion, it is important to provide data which shows a reasonable justified link to your conclusions.

 

[Rentahamster]

I posted a link showing cloth masks only block 25% of Covid particles. You then counter with a link showing cloth masks only block 17% of Covid particles. There was nothing to misinterpret.

Yes there was. Those are two different settings with completely different testing scenarios. You can't directly compare the two.

Additionally, the point of the study was to show that when masks are used, even cloth ones, that the amount of viral load that we are exposed to is lessened. This was demonstrated, which means that your claim that cloth masks are useless, is not accurate. Do you understand now?

But you know what? You need an internet win. Just go ahead and reply so you get the last word and therefore win.

This self defeatist attitude is not how you go about seeking truth.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Let me put them into neatly organized paragraphs so it's easier for you to digest.

1. You said that Florida was doing great despite the elderly population. I showed you a graph that shows the top 5 oldest states by population in America, and that Florida is actually not doing great. By a lot. Any explanation?

2. Because it's wise to do multiple angles of comparison, I also compiled a graph that organized the states by size, which also shows Florida not doing so great. Because NYC is an outlier, due to it being a huge 8 million population megacity, it was left off of consideration. Without NYC none of New York's other cities are over 1 million population, just like Florida. Any explanation?

3. Because you have a problem with the method of number 2, I additionally helpfully compiled a second graph that doesn't include New York State, but it still suggest the same point nonetheless. Any explanation?

4. I also showed you multiple sources of data that suggests masks work, despite your claim that they are minimally effective. Any explanation?


If you have data that actually supports the points your making, I'll take a look, but you didn't provide any. In any sort of evidence-based discussion, it is important to provide data which shows a reasonable justified link to your conclusions.

I’m so glad you wasted your time doing that. Again.

Just go look at the overall death stats per million. It’s easy to find. You’ll see that there are plenty of states that crushed their economies with mandates and restrictions and pointlessly continue to mask their kids. You’ll also find ones that didn’t. Which is the point. The restrictions and mandates caused some small decrease in death in a few places. At the cost of citizens ability to freely live their lives in ways they would prefer.

See unlike your weird, myopic view of this, there are considerations outside of covid deaths. Especially when the difference between the states that restricted and the ones that didn’t is marginal.

 

[Rentahamster]

TDiddyLive here is the study in question again.

Effectiveness of Face Masks in Preventing Airborne Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 - PMC

Airborne simulation experiments showed that cotton masks, surgical masks, and N95 masks provide some protection from the transmission of infective SARS-CoV-2 droplets/aerosols; however, medical masks (surgical masks and even N95 masks) could not ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is the conclusion that they reached: "We found that cotton masks, surgical masks, and N95 masks all have a protective effect with respect to the transmission of infective droplets/aerosols of SARS-CoV-2 and that the protective efficiency was higher when masks were worn by a virus spreader. Importantly, medical masks (surgical masks and even N95 masks) were not able to completely block the transmission of virus droplets/aerosols even when completely sealed."

Regarding cloth masks: "when a mask was attached to the mannequin that released virus, cotton and surgical masks blocked more than 50% of the virus transmission"

Here in this handy dandy chart, you can see that when both the spreader and receiver are wearing cloth masks, the amount of virus that is transmitted is significantly reduced. This would counter the claim that cloth masks are useless, as you seem to think they are.

 

[sinnergy]

TDiddyLive here is the study in question again.

Effectiveness of Face Masks in Preventing Airborne Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 - PMC

Airborne simulation experiments showed that cotton masks, surgical masks, and N95 masks provide some protection from the transmission of infective SARS-CoV-2 droplets/aerosols; however, medical masks (surgical masks and even N95 masks) could not ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is the conclusion that they reached: "We found that cotton masks, surgical masks, and N95 masks all have a protective effect with respect to the transmission of infective droplets/aerosols of SARS-CoV-2 and that the protective efficiency was higher when masks were worn by a virus spreader. Importantly, medical masks (surgical masks and even N95 masks) were not able to completely block the transmission of virus droplets/aerosols even when completely sealed."

Regarding cloth masks: "when a mask was attached to the mannequin that released virus, cotton and surgical masks blocked more than 50% of the virus transmission"

Here in this handy dandy chart, you can see that when both the spreader and receiver are wearing cloth masks, the amount of virus that is transmitted is significantly reduced. This would counter the claim that cloth masks are useless, as you seem to think they are.

They won’t accept here in The Netherlands there are all kinds of documents leaking , they knew exactly how severe it was, but kept the population stupid to not cause mass hysteria.. the virus was classified as catastrophic by our CDC, in early 2020.. like I said all marketing. It was world wide marketing .

 

[NeonGhost]

People are still wearing mask ?

 

[DeepBreath87]

People are still wearing mask ?

Only the best people still wear masks. All the normal people are just heartless killers. What did that angry guy call me on the last page? Covid in human form? Those are the kind of people that don’t wear masks. You don’t want to be like those people. Breathing on everyone like some kind of jerk.

 

[WoJ]

People are still wearing mask ?

Mostly just kids because adults continue forcing them to wear masks at schools and day cares.

 

[sinnergy]

Only the best people still wear masks. All the normal people are just heartless killers. What did that angry guy call me on the last page? Covid in human form? Those are the kind of people that don’t wear masks. You don’t want to be like those people. Breathing on everyone like some kind of jerk.

It’s much better to accept there is no novel virus do absolutely nothing to help each other, that’s the way!

There is no spoon!

But there is a real danger that life as we know won’t come back completely.. (that’s what Israel scientists say) I guess , it is what it is .. I’ll take it how it comes , not much we can do , but help as good as we can .

 

[chromhound]

People are still wearing mask ?

only when I have to enter in a store (because there's still restrictions)

 

[Boss Mog]

Well, that didn't happen in Canada. And didn't even hear about that. 3 days, huh. It's been going on 2 weeks now here. The noise got shut down by one young woman and the courts. An amazing display of civics.

Didn't hear about it? Maybe stop watching propaganda pushers posing as news outlets. Are you the kind of person who believes the reporter that says it's a "peaceful protest" while buildings and cars burn in the background? BLM and antifa are terrorists, criminals and grifters who caused billions of dollars of damage (mostly to black neighborhoods), they looted and destroyed businesses (mostly black owned businesses) they tried to annex a part of Seattle, they killed many people, including young children, they are the absolute scum of the earth. All the money donated to BLM, none of it has helped a single black person expect for the leaders who used the money to buy themselves mansions. Also the riots didn't just last 3 days they lasted the whole summer of 2020 across multiple cities.

Remember when that was considered a "conspiracy theory"?

 

[Rentahamster]

I’m so glad you wasted your time doing that. Again.

The pursuit of truth is never a waste of time.

You'll notice that in your responses, you often criticize the format of the content, and not the actual content itself, nor do you specifically address the points made. For example:

Then you wrote another weird dissertation

I’ll leave you to write another essay

You have written novels about on a video game forum

What’s worn and tired are the books you write.

Attacking the format while ignoring the actual meat and potatoes of the discussion is a classic sign that you are not engaging in a productive manner. What's more useful is to take the data given and perform an analysis on it. I suggest you do that. It's not hard to answer simple, direct, questions.

No one is reading your shit.

I think I might have found the problem with your approach to this. Proper understanding of this huge issue necessitates a great deal of data intake, which unfortunately requires reading. If you don't read it, how can you possibly understand it? Please try to at least digest the information before replying. I give you the same courtesy and it would be great if you reciprocate in kind.

Now then, you were saying?

Just go look at the overall death stats per million. It’s easy to find.

Yeah, I actually did do that. It was in one of my replies to you. But we already established that you don't read them, so that's probably why you missed it.

You’ll see that there are plenty of states that crushed their economies with mandates and restrictions and pointlessly continue to mask their kids. You’ll also find ones that didn’t. Which is the point. The restrictions and mandates caused some small decrease in death in a few places. At the cost of citizens ability to freely live their lives in ways they would prefer.

"Crushed" their economies with mandates and restrictions? That's testable. It's also not pointless to mask your kids, and I gave you data that suggests that, but we'll put that point aside for now. Let's focus on states' economies.

Given that list of worst performers in terms of death, let's take the top 5 most deathly states - Mississippi, Arizona, New Jersey, Alabama, and Louisiana, and analyze their real GPD growth relative to the US average and each other as a whole. Let's also throw in California and Florida.

Here's also a list of all the states and their stances on vaccine passports:

State government policies about vaccine requirements (vaccine passports), 2021-2022

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

Last updated: February 9, 2022

Proof-of-vaccination requirements are business or government requirements that people prove they have been vaccinated against COVID-19. State governments have enacted various rules around the use of proof-of-vaccination requirements in their states, such as banning proof-of-vaccination requirements in some circumstances or implementing policies—sometimes called vaccine passports—that allow vaccinated people to bypass COVID-19 restrictions or engage in activities unavailable to unvaccinated people.

Twenty states, all with Republican governors, prohibit proof-of-vaccination requirements. In eleven states, governors banned proof-of-vaccination requirements through executive orders. In nine states, legislators passed laws banning proof-of-vaccination requirements.

Five states—California, New York, Hawaii, and Oregon, and Washington—have facilitated the creation of digital vaccination status applications or passed laws or enacted orders exempting fully vaccinated individuals from some COVID-19 restrictions if they can provide proof of vaccination. All five states have Democratic governors.

source: https://www.bea.gov/

The USA as a whole is neutral grey, and the other states have colors. Generally speaking, we see that everyone tanked in the first half of 2020 but recovered to some extent or another after that. From Q4 2020, the only state to consistently beat the US average was the authoritarian paradise of California. Florida which has a per capita death toll 1K higher than California, was also consistently strong, except for one quarter.

Mississippi beat the US average in Q3 and Q4 of 2020, but has not since then.

Arizona beat the US average in Q4 2020 and Q3 2021.

New Jersey beat the average 3 times.

Alabama beat the average once.

Louisiana beat the average once.

So far not a terrible result but not a great economic showing either for the top 5 most deathly and possibly most freedom loving states.

Now, let's take the 5 terrible states who have the gall to implement a vaccine passport in order to protect their citizens like it's their civic duty or some crazy thing: California, New York, Hawaii, Oregon, and Washington. 3 of these states are in the top 10 of fewest deaths per capita in the nation. California is not far behind at #12. New York state is the outlier by being #6 in most deaths per capita, but that's because of the huge megacity that is NYC, as we've already established.

How did these states compare to the US average?

Q3 2020: 2 vaccine passport states beat the US average.

Q4 2020: 2 vaccine passport states beat the US average.

Q1 2021: 4 vaccine passport states beat the US average.

Q2 2021: 4 vaccine passport states beat the US average.

Q3 2021: all 5 vaccine passport states beat or tied the US average.

How did that compare with the 5 most deathly states?

Q3 2020: 3 freedom loving states beat the US average. WIN

Q4 2020: 2 freedom loving states beat the US average. TIE

Q1 2021: 1 freedom loving state beat the US average. LOSS

Q2 2021: 1 freedom loving state beat the US average. LOSS

Q3 2021: 2 freedom loving states beat the US average. LOSS


Not a good economic showing in a comparison of the icky vaccine passport states to the chad freedom loving states.

You’ll see that there are plenty of states that crushed their economies with mandates and restrictions and pointlessly continue to mask their kids. You’ll also find ones that didn’t. Which is the point. The restrictions and mandates caused some small decrease in death in a few places. At the cost of citizens ability to freely live their lives in ways they would prefer.

Again let me reiterate our different approaches to this issue. All you can say is "some places had restrictions and some places didn't. That's the point. The economic negatives aren't worth it". You just state this without providing any data that makes your case or that shows even a hint of correlation at the least.

On the other hand, I organize the data in multiple ways and try to group them into similar categories so that they are somewhat more comparable. We can test the claims and show that the 5 vaccine passport states were able to both maintain sensible mitigation strategies and maintain a reasonable economy while at the same time saving lots of lives. This is demonstrated through charts and graphs and tables, which, unfortunately, all require reading. I hope you did it.

 

[NeonGhost]

Only the best people still wear masks. All the normal people are just heartless killers. What did that angry guy call me on the last page? Covid in human form? Those are the kind of people that don’t wear masks. You don’t want to be like those people. Breathing on everyone like some kind of jerk.

Ehh I’m not wearing a mask so best run when you see me

 

[Rentahamster]

People are still wearing mask ?

Yup!

Ehh I’m not wearing a mask so best run when you see me

No need to run. I'm vaccinated and also usually masked when the situation warrants it, so the risk to me is very tiny.

 

[Kraz]

Didn't hear about it? Maybe stop watching propaganda pushers posing as news outlets. Are you the kind of person who believes the reporter that says it's a "peaceful protest" while buildings and cars burn in the background? BLM and antifa are terrorists, criminals and grifters who caused billions of dollars of damage (mostly to black neighborhoods), they looted and destroyed businesses (mostly black owned businesses) they tried to annex a part of Seattle, they killed many people, including young children, they are the absolute scum of the earth. All the money donated to BLM, none of it has helped a single black person expect for the leaders who used the money to buy themselves mansions. Also the riots didn't just last 3 days they lasted the whole summer of 2020 across multiple cities.


Remember when that was considered a "conspiracy theory"?

Protests in the USA aren't a great concern to those outside the USA. There was nothing like that from BLM in Canada. They protested peacefully and went home.

 

[poppabk]

The pursuit of truth is never a waste of time.

You'll notice that in your responses, you often criticize the format of the content, and not the actual content itself, nor do you specifically address the points made.

I appreciate your efforts.

 

[Boss Mog]

Protests in the USA aren't a great concern to those outside the USA. There was nothing like that from BLM in Canada. They protested peacefully and went home.

Speak for yourself. Protests anywhere should interest people who care enough to stay informed no matter if they agree with a protest or not.

 

[Kraz]

Speak for yourself. Protests anywhere should interest people who care enough to stay informed no matter if they agree with a protest or not.

You're welcome to do so. What you're referring to wasn't a personal directive but an observation that people outside the USA don't follow USA protests.

 

[Nobody_Important]

People are still wearing mask ?

Yep still wear mine when I go to crowded places.\


There is no reason not to.

 

[DeepBreath87]

The pursuit of truth is never a waste of time.

You'll notice that in your responses, you often criticize the format of the content, and not the actual content itself, nor do you specifically address the points made. For example:








Attacking the format while ignoring the actual meat and potatoes of the discussion is a classic sign that you are not engaging in a productive manner. What's more useful is to take the data given and perform an analysis on it. I suggest you do that. It's not hard to answer simple, direct, questions.


I think I might have found the problem with your approach to this. Proper understanding of this huge issue necessitates a great deal of data intake, which unfortunately requires reading. If you don't read it, how can you possibly understand it? Please try to at least digest the information before replying. I give you the same courtesy and it would be great if you reciprocate in kind.

Now then, you were saying?


Yeah, I actually did do that. It was in one of my replies to you. But we already established that you don't read them, so that's probably why you missed it.


"Crushed" their economies with mandates and restrictions? That's testable. It's also not pointless to mask your kids, and I gave you data that suggests that, but we'll put that point aside for now. Let's focus on states' economies.

Given that list of worst performers in terms of death, let's take the top 5 most deathly states - Mississippi, Arizona, New Jersey, Alabama, and Louisiana, and analyze their real GPD growth relative to the US average and each other as a whole. Let's also throw in California and Florida.

Here's also a list of all the states and their stances on vaccine passports:

State government policies about vaccine requirements (vaccine passports), 2021-2022

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

source: https://www.bea.gov/

The USA as a whole is neutral grey, and the other states have colors. Generally speaking, we see that everyone tanked in the first half of 2020 but recovered to some extent or another after that. From Q4 2020, the only state to consistently beat the US average was the authoritarian paradise of California. Florida which has a per capita death toll 1K higher than California, was also consistently strong, except for one quarter.

Mississippi beat the US average in Q3 and Q4 of 2020, but has not since then.

Arizona beat the US average in Q4 2020 and Q3 2021.

New Jersey beat the average 3 times.

Alabama beat the average once.

Louisiana beat the average once.

So far not a terrible result but not a great economic showing either for the top 5 most deathly and possibly most freedom loving states.

Now, let's take the 5 terrible states who have the gall to implement a vaccine passport in order to protect their citizens like it's their civic duty or some crazy thing: California, New York, Hawaii, Oregon, and Washington. 3 of these states are in the top 10 of fewest deaths per capita in the nation. California is not far behind at #12. New York state is the outlier by being #6 in most deaths per capita, but that's because of the huge megacity that is NYC, as we've already established.

How did these states compare to the US average?

Q3 2020: 2 vaccine passport states beat the US average.

Q4 2020: 2 vaccine passport states beat the US average.

Q1 2021: 4 vaccine passport states beat the US average.

Q2 2021: 4 vaccine passport states beat the US average.

Q3 2021: all 5 vaccine passport states beat or tied the US average.

How did that compare with the 5 most deathly states?

Q3 2020: 3 freedom loving states beat the US average. WIN

Q4 2020: 2 freedom loving states beat the US average. TIE

Q1 2021: 1 freedom loving state beat the US average. LOSS

Q2 2021: 1 freedom loving state beat the US average. LOSS

Q3 2021: 2 freedom loving states beat the US average. LOSS


Not a good economic showing in a comparison of the icky vaccine passport states to the chad freedom loving states.


Again let me reiterate our different approaches to this issue. All you can say is "some places had restrictions and some places didn't. That's the point. The economic negatives aren't worth it". You just state this without providing any data that makes your case or that shows even a hint of correlation at the least.

On the other hand, I organize the data in multiple ways and try to group them into similar categories so that they are somewhat more comparable. We can test the claims and show that the 5 vaccine passport states were able to both maintain sensible mitigation strategies and maintain a reasonable economy while at the same time saving lots of lives. This is demonstrated through charts and graphs and tables, which, unfortunately, all require reading. I hope you did it.

I love how hard you try. You really can’t help yourself. You should really channel this energy into something productive instead of trying to win internet weirdo points. Look at the unemployment numbers throughout the pandemic. New York and California had high unemployment. They also hemorrhaged people leaving for other states that weren’t fucking with them as much. People don’t want to live under the policies you advocate for. But keep making spreadsheets in the high minded search of truth. On NeoGaf.

Of course it’s not about “truth”. It’s about finding numbers that support your preconceived notions. That’s why you choose to edit the data that started the whole discussion. And now your reduced to writing books to try and win an silly argument no one cares about. But keep “searching for truth”. Like I said. I don’t closely read you posts. Because I find you hilariously long winded and ridiculous. If you honestly think anyone reads all that shit, you’re insane. Think about where you are right now.

 

[NeonGhost]

Yep still wear mine when I go to crowded places.\


There is no reason not to.

When will you stop

 

[DeepBreath87]

When will you stop

You heard him. Never. He says there no reason not to wear a mask. Don’t mind him. He’s a strange fellow.

 

[Rentahamster]

I love how hard you try. You really can’t help yourself. You should really channel this energy into something productive instead of trying to win internet weirdo points. Look at the unemployment numbers throughout the pandemic. New York and California had high unemployment. They also hemorrhaged people leaving for other states that weren’t fucking with them as much. People don’t want to live under the policies you advocate for. But keep making spreadsheets in the high minded search of truth. On NeoGaf.

I see we're going back to ignoring what I wrote and changing the subject. Do you want to take a look at unemployment numbers?

Here are the numbers from 2019 to the most recent data available now featuring the aforementioned vaccine passport states and the most deaths award states.

Source: https://www.bls.gov/regions/home.htm

Here is a graph, which shows that change. Vaccine passport states are in green, most death states are in purple.

Generally speaking, the vaccine passport states do exhibit more unemployment. Especially Hawaii, but that's to be expected since its primary industry is tourism. There are 3 vaccine passport states that seem to have generally higher unemployment, and two vaccine passport states that seem to have generally lower unemployment relative to most of the high death rate states. Alabama is the least burdened with unemployment throughout this graph due to Alabama things.

So what does this tell us? Yes, unemployment was generally higher in the vaccine passport states, but that raises a few questions - Was that because of the vaccine passports and other restrictions or was that going to happen anyway? Was it a huge difference? Was it higher unemployment rate worth the reduction in deaths? Is unemployment rate even a proper metric to use in this scenario?

A few more observations - I also averaged the unemployment rate of each group of states between November 2019 and November 2021. It turns out that the average unemployment rate for the vaccine passport states is 7.9, and the average unemployment rate for the highest death rate states is 6.8. That's a 1.1 point difference. The average death rate of the vaccine passport states is 1,883 deaths per million, while the average death rate for the high death rate states is 3,665 deaths per million. That's a difference of 1,782 deaths per million population Assuming that the COVID restrictions are directly causing both the unemployment rise and the reduction in COVID deaths, is a 1,782 per capita death rate increase worth saving 1.1 points on unemployment. I'd say no.

Alternatively, you could check the difference in unemployment rate between Nov 2019 and Nov 2021 for each group. The average change in unemployment for the vaccine passport states was 2.3, while the average change for the high death rate states was 0.6. Are those savings worth all those people dead? I'd also say no to that as well, especially considering how in my previous post I showed how the GPD of the vaccine passport states wasn't even doing that bad relative to everyone else. So when you say they're "crushed", I have to chalk that up to hyperbole.

Let's also get back to that question of is unemployment rate even a good metric to use right now? It has its uses, but it's not always the entire picture. Unemployment rate is always changing its calculation based on the number of eligible people who are actively looking for work and cannot find it.

What the unemployment rate does – and doesn't – say about the economy

Although the unemployment rate gets most of the attention, the government's monthly jobs report contains lots of other data that, properly interpreted, can provide a fuller picture of the U.S. economy.

www.pewresearch.org

But the unemployment rate is just one indicator of how the U.S. economy is doing, and it’s not always the best one. Simply being out of work isn’t enough for a person to be counted as unemployed; he or she also has to be available to work and actively looking for work (or on temporary layoff). In any given month, the unemployment rate can rise or fall based not just on how many people find or lose jobs, but on how many join or leave the active labor force.

Hmm what might happen to someone that makes them not actively look for work anymore? Sure, it's entirely possible that people will stop looking for work because their entire industry is shut down via a lockdown, but is there anything else?

Since 1945, the official definition has been that to be considered unemployed, you must not only not have a job but be available for work (i.e., not too sick to work) and have actively looked for a job in the past four weeks. If you’re neither employed nor, according to the official definition, unemployed, you’re not considered part of the labor force.

As many observers have pointed out, the official unemployment definition leaves out some significant groups. The underemployed – part-time workers who would prefer to work full-time – are counted among the employed. And discouraged workers – people who’d like a job but have stopped looking because they don’t believe any work is available – aren’t counted as part of the labor force at all.

But the CPS asks people a lot more than whether they are working or searching for work. Questions include how long jobless people have been out of work, how recently they looked for work, why part-timers aren’t working full time, why people choose not to look for work, and even why people with jobs may not have been working during the survey period (for example, if they were sick, on vacation, temporarily laid off or snowed in).

Now let's see, could there be a correlation between how many sick people there are in a state and how that might affect their ability to participate in the workforce? Could there be a relationship between more people getting sick because of careless policy? Could a lot of people be exiting the workforce because they're in the hospital for a month, suffer from long COVID, or die? Could these numbers skew the unemployment figures just a smidge? Yes, probably.

What other metrics can we look at?

Beyond the unemployment rate, a key metric in the monthly jobs report is the labor force participation rate – the share of the 16-and-over civilian non-institutional population either working or looking for work. The participation rate rose for several decades, peaked in early 2000 at 67.3%, then began falling; in January it was 62.9%, about where it was in the late 1970s. Labor economists generally agree that waves of retiring Baby Boomers explain part (but not all) of the decline, which has been especially steep for men in their prime working years.

There’s also the employment-population ratio, which measures employed people as a percentage of the 16-and-over civilian non-institutional population. Though the ratio has some quirks, it’s less affected by seasonal variations or short-term fluctuations in labor-market behavior than the unemployment rate. According to the January jobs report, the seasonally adjusted employment-population ratio was 59.9%, three-tenths of a percentage point higher than it was a year earlier.

Like the labor force participation rate, the employment-population ratio can be affected by more people retiring or deciding to go back to school. That’s why many labor-market economists focus on the 25-to-54 age group, which strips out most students and retirees. In January, the employment-population ratio for that subgroup was a seasonally adjusted 78.2%, a figure that’s been constant for the past four months. While that’s better than it was during the long hangover from the Great Recession (only 75.2% of 25- to 54-year-olds were employed in January 2011), it’s still below the indicator’s pre-recession high (80.3% in January 2007).

Let's try the labor participation rate.

Here we see that the labor participation rate overall among the VP states was generally slightly higher than the HD states. The VP states also saw slightly less of a drop in their labor participation rate than the HD states.

So the unemployment increased 2.3 for the VP states and only 0.6 for the HD states, while the labor participation rate decreased by 1.5 for the HD states but only 1 for the VP states. What does this tell us? It's hard to say, but it's probably not indicating that the VP states' economies were relatively "crushed".

How Labor Force Participation Rate Affects U.S. Unemployment

While a falling unemployment rate sounds like a good thing, it can actually be indicative of people leaving the labor force because they can't find a job.

www.investopedia.com

Ways Unemployment Rates Can Fall​

First, the most obvious way is that unemployed people find jobs and become employed. Labor force participation remains the same, while the number of unemployed decreases and the number of employed increases.


The second way is that people not currently counted in the labor force become employed. It is always possible for someone not actively looking for work to accept a job offer. As this would cause an increase in the total labor force while the number of unemployed remains unaffected, the percentage of unemployed would decrease.

Discouraged Workers​

Finally, the unemployment rate can fall when those once considered unemployed stop looking for work and leave the labor force altogether. The BLS defines discouraged workers as people not in the labor force who may want work and are available to work but have given up looking. While they have looked for work sometime in the previous 12 months, discouraged workers are not counted as unemployed if they have not looked for work in the four weeks prior to the BLS survey.3


As both the number of unemployed and total labor force decrease in such a situation, it may not be obvious that the unemployment rate actually goes down. But considering the most extreme example of all those currently unemployed leaving the labor force, no matter how low the total labor force falls, the unemployment rate falls to zero.


While the first two ways in which the unemployment rate could decline are positive signs of economic strength, the final way is actually more indicative of weakness. Let’s look at the U.S. situation in order to determine whether a falling unemployment rate is a sign of strength or a sign of weakness.

Higher rates of sickness, hospitalization, and death would discourage people from working, yep.

Of course it’s not about “truth”. It’s about finding numbers that support your preconceived notions. That’s why you choose to edit the data that started the whole discussion. And now your reduced to writing books to try and win an silly argument no one cares about. But keep “searching for truth”. Like I said. I don’t closely read you posts. Because I find you hilariously long winded and ridiculous. If you honestly think anyone reads all that shit, you’re insane. Think about where you are right now.

It's always about truth. That is a principle that is dear to my heart. Separating facts from our emotional state is how we land on the moon. I didn't edit anything. That's how the numbers are given when you go to the CDC website. If you don't appreciate the nuance of the data and still don't understand after I helpfully explained it to you, then there's not much more I can do.

If you celebrate not reading and purposeful ignorance as a means to win your internet discussions, then that's your right, but it doesn't paint your personal pursuit of truth in a flattering light. While I do this for your enlightenment, it's not only for you. This is for the many other silent lurkers out there who read but don't say anything, and if they can get some insight to this situation via me showing how your conclusions are based on emotion and mine are based on actual data, then I consider that a worthwhile endeavor. I know exactly where I am. You might want to reflect on whether insults, deflection, and intentional ignorance is really the way you want to show yourself to the world. Is this the way you'd want your kids to act if they were pursuing intellectual rigors at school?

 

[Nobody_Important]

When will you stop

Why does it matter?

 

[DeepBreath87]

I see we're going back to ignoring what I wrote and changing the subject. Do you want to take a look at unemployment numbers?

Here are the numbers from 2019 to the most recent data available now featuring the aforementioned vaccine passport states and the most deaths award states.

Source: https://www.bls.gov/regions/home.htm

Here is a graph, which shows that change. Vaccine passport states are in green, most death states are in purple.

Generally speaking, the vaccine passport states do exhibit more unemployment. Especially Hawaii, but that's to be expected since its primary industry is tourism. There are 3 vaccine passport states that seem to have generally higher unemployment, and two vaccine passport states that seem to have generally lower unemployment relative to most of the high death rate states. Alabama is the least burdened with unemployment throughout this graph due to Alabama things.

So what does this tell us? Yes, unemployment was generally higher in the vaccine passport states, but that raises a few questions - Was that because of the vaccine passports and other restrictions or was that going to happen anyway? Was it a huge difference? Was it higher unemployment rate worth the reduction in deaths? Is unemployment rate even a proper metric to use in this scenario?

A few more observations - I also averaged the unemployment rate of each group of states between November 2019 and November 2021. It turns out that the average unemployment rate for the vaccine passport states is 7.9, and the average unemployment rate for the highest death rate states is 6.8. That's a 1.1 point difference. The average death rate of the vaccine passport states is 1,883 deaths per million, while the average death rate for the high death rate states is 3,665 deaths per million. That's a difference of 1,782 deaths per million population Assuming that the COVID restrictions are directly causing both the unemployment rise and the reduction in COVID deaths, is a 1,782 per capita death rate increase worth saving 1.1 points on unemployment. I'd say no.

Alternatively, you could check the difference in unemployment rate between Nov 2019 and Nov 2021 for each group. The average change in unemployment for the vaccine passport states was 2.3, while the average change for the high death rate states was 0.6. Are those savings worth all those people dead? I'd also say no to that as well, especially considering how in my previous post I showed how the GPD of the vaccine passport states wasn't even doing that bad relative to everyone else. So when you say they're "crushed", I have to chalk that up to hyperbole.

Let's also get back to that question of is unemployment rate even a good metric to use right now? It has its uses, but it's not always the entire picture. Unemployment rate is always changing its calculation based on the number of eligible people who are actively looking for work and cannot find it.

What the unemployment rate does – and doesn't – say about the economy

Although the unemployment rate gets most of the attention, the government's monthly jobs report contains lots of other data that, properly interpreted, can provide a fuller picture of the U.S. economy.

www.pewresearch.org

Hmm what might happen to someone that makes them not actively look for work anymore? Sure, it's entirely possible that people will stop looking for work because their entire industry is shut down via a lockdown, but is there anything else?







Now let's see, could there be a correlation between how many sick people there are in a state and how that might affect their ability to participate in the workforce? Could there be a relationship between more people getting sick because of careless policy? Could a lot of people be exiting the workforce because they're in the hospital for a month, suffer from long COVID, or die? Could these numbers skew the unemployment figures just a smidge? Yes, probably.

What other metrics can we look at?



Let's try the labor participation rate.

Here we see that the labor participation rate overall among the VP states was generally slightly higher than the HD states. The VP states also saw slightly less of a drop in their labor participation rate than the HD states.

So the unemployment increased 2.3 for the VP states and only 0.6 for the HD states, while the labor participation rate decreased by 1.5 for the HD states but only 1 for the VP states. What does this tell us? It's hard to say, but it's probably not indicating that the VP states' economies were relatively "crushed".

How Labor Force Participation Rate Affects U.S. Unemployment

While a falling unemployment rate sounds like a good thing, it can actually be indicative of people leaving the labor force because they can't find a job.

www.investopedia.com

Higher rates of sickness, hospitalization, and death would discourage people from working, yep.


It's always about truth. That is a principle that is dear to my heart. Separating facts from our emotional state is how we land on the moon. I didn't edit anything. That's how the numbers are given when you go to the CDC website. If you don't appreciate the nuance of the data and still don't understand after I helpfully explained it to you, then there's not much more I can do.

If you celebrate not reading and purposeful ignorance as a means to win your internet discussions, then that's your right, but it doesn't paint your personal pursuit of truth in a flattering light. While I do this for your enlightenment, it's not only for you. This is for the many other silent lurkers out there who read but don't say anything, and if they can get some insight to this situation via me showing how your conclusions are based on emotion and mine are based on actual data, then I consider that a worthwhile endeavor. I know exactly where I am. You might want to reflect on whether insults, deflection, and intentional ignorance is really the way you want to show yourself to the world. Is this the way you'd want your kids to act if they were pursuing intellectual rigors at school?

I’ll give you credit for one thing. I’ve never seen someone on an internet message board who huffed their own farts as deeply as you do.

 

[NeonGhost]

Why does it matter?

Just curious what it would take for you stop wearing a mask

 

[Rentahamster]

I’ll give you credit for one thing. I’ve never seen someone on an internet message board who huffed their own farts as deeply as you do.

Cheers to that, they are quite nice.

Given that multiple failures at rebutting points made constitutes a loss, I accept your concession. Thanks for your time.

You should keep in mind, because I've noticed this in the Is God Real thread too - you have a tendency to become very flustered when you're on the ropes in a discussion and get into a mindset where you ignore the scientific evidence presented to you right in front of your face.

Perhaps a candidate for this year's resolutions.