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[Dr.Guru of Peru]

The counter to the financial argument has already been presented. The lady with the British accent's response completely ignored it. If Ivermectin was being downplayed due to a lack of financial motivation, then why is dexamethasone the most widely used treatment for COVID19? Why wouldn't governments dealing with overwhelmed health care systems want to invest in a cheap drug if it actually did what these grifters were claiming it does?

 

[Nobody_Important]

...because in science, no fringe position has ever become the accepted position given time.

Jesus Christ dude we are not talking about the earth going around the sun or something here.


We are talking about abunch of fringe grifters pushing conspiracies and other nonsense for money and exposure while innocent (and ignorant) people drink it all up because it is exactly what they want to hear.


These people are not martyrs. They are not unrecognized geniuses. They are not brave trailblazers that will be unappreciated in their time. They are people trying to make a fast buck off the stupidity of others.

 

[Shai-Tan]

I've beaten this point about the recent history of the opioid crisis into the ground now, but it servers as the best example of why pharmaceutical companies are thought not to be trustworthy. Anyway, that whole debacle is documented fact, not vague conspiratorial thinking.

... and those reasons wouldn't be financial reasons by chance? Look, we can play this game all day, but at the end of the day I am not obliged to trust your (or anyone else's) 'credible experts', in fact, I choose not to. Many others agree with me, and this seems to irk you. Maybe you should try to understand the reasons, instead of acting like all this anti-pharma sentiment just popped out of a hole in the ground. Have you looked at the vaccine booster thread? I'd say you have your work cut out for you...

There is no good charitable position to construct out of your reasoning there. It’s poorly argued. What coherent story is there to tell about the opioid crisis and undefined “financial reasons” related to COVID that would be persuasive?

 

[QSD]

Jesus Christ dude we are not talking about the earth going around the sun or something here.


We are talking about abunch of fringe grifters pushing conspiracies and other nonsense for money and exposure while innocent (and ignorant) people drink it all up because it is exactly what they want to hear.


These people are not martyrs. They are not unrecognized geniuses. They are not brave trailblazers that will be unappreciated in their time. They are people trying to make a fast buck off the stupidity of others.

This is just a bunch of namecalling, not a reasoned argument.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Why wouldn't governments dealing with overwhelmed health care systems want to invest in a cheap drug if it actually did what these grifters were claiming it does?

Some did.

 

[Nobody_Important]

QSD Yes the majority of the governments of the world, the majority of the scientists in the world and the majority of the doctors in the world are all either stupid or part of the conspiracy. Its the fringe martyrs for truth and justice on Twitter and YouTube who are the real experts. They are the people ahead of the curve and in the know. They are the ones who know the real truth. Okay lol


A year later and we have apparently learned nothing when it comes to nobodies on social media or YouTube spreading random crap despite actual experts the world over telling you what is going on. Oh but this person said what you wanted to hear. That means they are right. I don't even know what to say anymore.

 

[QSD]

There is no good charitable position to construct out of your reasoning there. It’s poorly argued. What coherent story is there to tell about the opioid crisis and undefined “financial reasons” related to COVID that would be persuasive?

How hard can it be? The recent history of the opiate crisis shows that pharmaceutical companies cannot be fully trusted to put the well-being of patients before their own profit motive. Therefore we should be extraordinarily reluctant to pressure anybody into using their products.

Truth hurts sometimes. I get it.

But you know I'm right and that is enough for me.

I'd be happy to talk to you if you actually present some kind of argument, but if you've just come to masturbate get it over with already, it's not a pleasant sight

 

[Deleted member 17706]

How hard can it be? The recent history of the opiate crisis shows that pharmaceutical companies cannot be fully trusted to put the well-being of patients before their own profit motive. Therefore we should be extraordinarily reluctant to pressure anybody into using their products.

I'd be happy to talk to you if you actually present some kind of argument, but if you've just come to masturbate get it over with already, it's not a pleasant sight

Not sure why you bother with replying. The dude calls everyone a grifter who has some degree of prominence that he thinks is straying from the mainstream when they shouldn't. Without fail. Doesn't matter who they are, what they are saying, what their background is, or if they even have any mechanisms in place to make money from their statements. Just instant character attacks.

 

[DeepBreath87]

QSD . I don't even know what to say anymore.

If only this were true…

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Nobody_Important]

How hard can it be? The recent history of the opiate crisis shows that pharmaceutical companies cannot be fully trusted to put the well-being of patients before their own profit motive. Therefore we should be extraordinarily reluctant to pressure anybody into using their products.

I'd be happy to talk to you if you actually present some kind of argument, but if you've just come to masturbate get it over with already, it's not a pleasant sight

Edited my post already. Feel free to explain to me why the majority of the worlds governments, scientists, and doctors are wrong and why I should believe the people on YouTube who are telling you exactly what you wanna hear.



I'll wait. Because I would love to hear your reasoning behind this.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Scientists and doctors do not have to be dumb or wrong to go along with a narrative. They just need to be properly incentivized. If going against the grain means you lose funding, don't get grants, or have targets put on your business or employer, why would you do it? Especially when the ones who do speak up get ostracized beyond belief and labeled heretics or "grifters"? It's just not worth the trouble of putting yourself out there if your livelihood and personal interests could be put in jeopardy, especially if you aren't even absolutely sure about what you are advocating for, but merely have a suspicion that you want to see investigated more.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Scientists and doctors do not have to be dumb or wrong to go along with a narrative. They just need to be properly incentivized. If going against the grain means you lose funding, don't get grants, or have targets put on your business or employer, why would you do it? Especially when the ones who do speak up get ostracized beyond belief and labeled heretics or "grifters"? It's just not worth the trouble of putting yourself out there if your livelihood and personal interests could be put in jeopardy, especially if you aren't even absolutely sure about what you are advocating for, but merely have a suspicion that you want to see investigated more.

So you don't actually have a real tangible reason why I should distrust them other than your own self imposed suspicions and biases against them?


That's not enough. If you expect someone to distrust the majority of the medical community you need more than "well they COULD be doing it because this".

 

[QSD]

Edited my post already. Feel free to explain to me why the majority of the worlds governments, scientists, and doctors are wrong and why I should believe the people on YouTube who are telling you exactly what you wanna hear.

The majority of the worlds governments, scientists and doctors don't agree on anything. Besides that this is just argumentum ad populum .

The discussion followed from a Rebel Wisdom video I posted in which David Fuller talks to one proponent of Ivermectin and two opponents. How is this video telling me what I want to hear, when it clearly chooses to represent both viewpoints?

 

[Nobody_Important]

The majority of the worlds governments, scientists and doctors don't agree on anything.

Oh I must have just imagined that a version of the COVID-19 vaccine has been implemented all over the world by now.


My bad.

 

[QSD]

Oh I must have just imagined that a version of the COVID-19 vaccine has been implemented all over the world by now.


My bad.

In detail I mean, I was trying to make the point that Covid response around the world has been rather varied to say the least

 

[Nobody_Important]

In detail I mean, I was trying to make the point that Covid response around the world has been rather varied to say the least

Sure it has. That is to be expected. But the vaccines are something that the majority of the world agrees on. Doctors from all over. Scientists from all over. And countries that have nothing common even agree on it.



So why should you, I, or anyone else believe someone on Twitter or YouTube in the face of that level of cooperation? Convince me. Because all I see are grifters taking advantage of the ignorant and the uneducated.

 

[QSD]

Sure it has. That is to be expected. But the vaccines are something that the majority of the world agrees on. Doctors from all over. Scientists from all over. And countries that have nothing common even agree on it.



So why should you, I, or anyone else believe someone on Twitter or YouTube in the face of that level of cooperation? Convince me. Because all I see are grifters taking advantage of the ignorant and the uneducated.

This is argumentum ad populum like I just said. Obviously there are grifters out there, taking advantage of the ignorant and uneducated is as old as time. Other than that you're largely arguing with a strawman, I don't oppose vaccination, I just feel people should not be pressured into trusting pharmaceutical companies because I think that is unethical, considering the less then stellar reputation these companies have on account of their recent history with opiates.

 

[arkhamguy123]

LOL era. Was on a covid thread. See "US posts 90k cases as states report weekend backlog" and they're all like "oh my god we're doomed!" "this has to be a record for daily cases?!!" Just completely ignored the qualifier that the poster literally had right there.

 

[boutrosinit]

QSD Yes the majority of the governments of the world, the majority of the scientists in the world and the majority of the doctors in the world are all either stupid or part of the conspiracy. Its the fringe martyrs for truth and justice on Twitter and YouTube who are the real experts. They are the people ahead of the curve and in the know. They are the ones who know the real truth. Okay lol


A year later and we have apparently learned nothing when it comes to nobodies on social media or YouTube spreading random crap despite actual experts the world over telling you what is going on. Oh but this person said what you wanted to hear. That means they are right. I don't even know what to say anymore.

I missed the context of how this back n forth started.

What I wanted to add is a few thousand doctors were against this and spoke out in protests and videos. Some were muzzled, banned of social media channels and so on. The inventor of the PCR test (now dead) recommended against its use as a test. Many other doctors agreed and were shunned, ignored and flagged or banned in social media. These guys opposed the narrative; were some trying to make a buck? How? I don't know. They risked careers and credibility.

Doctors who speak out against vaccines in any way are often savaged by their establishment and lose their license.

On July 21st of this year, on the CDC site, this was published:
https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/...-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html

Basically, the PCR test, the one cited in the massive numbers in cases, can't distinguish reliably between the flu and Covid. A massive part of the negative rhetoric was around the use of this test. And now all the people who spoke up about it are vindicated, but, will they be restored on social? Will the silliness stop?

Guess we'll see.

 

[FireFly]

The LA Times was talking about the effectiveness of vaccines in general, while the Israeli PM was talking specifically about their effectiveness against the Delta variant. And I would assume he was referring to their capability to prevent symptomatic infection, rather than their capacity to prevent hospitalizations and death – which remains strong even in the Israeli data. So, there are plenty of ways both statements can be right.

Not that I expect good faith arguments from Twitter.

 

[JumpMan1981]

I have a relative dying on a ventilator this morning because they believed a pastor who told them the vaccine was the mark of the beast and not to take it.

Well then that pastor should be held accountable socially and, to whatever extent possible, legally.

It doesn't change a single thing about the vaccines.
People should have a right to make their own decisions and it does not matter what their reasons are.

 

[JumpMan1981]

I've found that the "do your own research" mantra is largely just a dog whistle for "shop around for the information that you want to hear." sorry about your loved one

Not to mention that it's basically impossible to educate yourself on something like this without spending a good few years and even then the "experts" will not know every single thing there is to know.

The truth is that it's a question of trust.

I got vaccinated because I trust that this is the way out and that the government genuinely wants to give me the option of not dying from Covid.

There's a problem in there though. My level of trust is my own and my decision to put my future in the hands of Pfizer is also my own. Is it true that pharmaceutical companies have always been trustworthy? Has the government always been trustworthy? Have you ever read a history book? Someone else could have a very different and very justified level of trust.

I don't know a damn thing about viruses and vaccines or any of that crap. I've said "fuck it" and got vaccinated on nothing more than my intuition that this is the correct thing to do. Just as I never bothered to obey restrictions since around mid April 2020 because I don't think the government has a right to tell me how many people I can have in my house or on my land. If someone wanted to come over then they could and if someone said they didn't feel safe then that was OK too. We make our own decisions.

Yes, people talking absolute BS to try and influence the decisions of others is wrong. Especially when it is based on complete nonsense. On the other hand if you blindly trust "the experts" then one day you will no doubt experience the betrayal of that trust. This is reality.

If you are sitting there and asking yourself how it's possible that people could not trust large corporations, very very rich individuals, the media and their own governments then I would suggest that you don't know very much about the world at all.

The best any one of us can do is just take personal responsibility for ourselves. If you think a friend or loved one is being brainwashed by bad actors then it's your responsibility to be kind and gentle and do your best to steer them away. Berating others or mocking them or generally being an arrogant, overbearing, control freak probably isn't going to work out so well.

 

[DeepBreath87]

Not to mention that it's basically impossible to educate yourself on something like this without spending a good few years and even then the "experts" will not know every single thing there is to know.

The truth is that it's a question of trust.

I got vaccinated because I trust that this is the way out and that the government genuinely wants to give me the option of not dying from Covid.

There's a problem in there though. My level of trust is my own and my decision to put my future in the hands of Pfizer is also my own. Is it true that pharmaceutical companies have always been trustworthy? Has the government always been trustworthy? Have you ever read a history book? Someone else could have a very different and very justified level of trust.

I don't know a damn thing about viruses and vaccines or any of that crap. I've said "fuck it" and got vaccinated on nothing more than my intuition that this is the correct thing to do. Just as I never bothered to obey restrictions since around mid April 2020 because I don't think the government has a right to tell me how many people I can have in my house or on my land. If someone wanted to come over then they could and if someone said they didn't feel safe then that was OK too. We make our own decisions.

Yes, people talking absolute BS to try and influence the decisions of others is wrong. Especially when it is based on complete nonsense. On the other hand if you blindly trust "the experts" then one day you will no doubt experience the betrayal of that trust. This is reality.

If you are sitting there and asking yourself how it's possible that people could not trust large corporations, very very rich individuals, the media and their own governments then I would suggest that you don't know very much about the world at all.

The best any one of us can do is just take personal responsibility for ourselves. If you think a friend or loved one is being brainwashed by bad actors then it's your responsibility to be kind and gentle and do your best to steer them away. Berating others or mocking them or generally being an arrogant, overbearing, control freak probably isn't going to work out so well.

This is generally what I think. We should try both to assume positive intent in others and make sure we have it ourselves. So if we actually want people to get the vaccine, we should try and come at it from the angle that we actually care about them. If we don’t care, maybe just shut the fuck up. If we’re just talking to lord it over people we think are stupid that we don’t care about, that is a pretty shitty thing to do and it’s probably best to keep our mouths shut as it’s counter productive to getting people to take the vaccines.

Instead of assuming unvaccinated people are just selfish, ignorant retards, maybe we should assume they are actually worried and confused and take those feelings seriously. Is it that crazy that someone, having experienced the last 18 months, would be hesitant to stick the latest, greatest Big Pharma produced, government approved miracle drug into their arm a few months after it has become available?

The vaccines appear very effective. We can talk to people about getting them. I’ve talked to family members a bit. I have the benefit of seeing the impact of the vaccines at the hospital, so that helps. But I don’t berate people. If they listen to me and still don’t want the shots, so be it. I hope they’ll be fine, and statistically speaking, they likely will be. And if not, I can live with that too. That’s life.

Obviously I don’t live up to my ideals all the time. Particularly here at times. But I do try to practice it in my personal life. The way we treat each other is a hell of a lot more important than covid will ever be.

 

[QSD]

Not to mention that it's basically impossible to educate yourself on something like this without spending a good few years and even then the "experts" will not know every single thing there is to know.

The truth is that it's a question of trust.

I got vaccinated because I trust that this is the way out and that the government genuinely wants to give me the option of not dying from Covid.

There's a problem in there though. My level of trust is my own and my decision to put my future in the hands of Pfizer is also my own. Is it true that pharmaceutical companies have always been trustworthy? Has the government always been trustworthy? Have you ever read a history book? Someone else could have a very different and very justified level of trust.

I don't know a damn thing about viruses and vaccines or any of that crap. I've said "fuck it" and got vaccinated on nothing more than my intuition that this is the correct thing to do. Just as I never bothered to obey restrictions since around mid April 2020 because I don't think the government has a right to tell me how many people I can have in my house or on my land. If someone wanted to come over then they could and if someone said they didn't feel safe then that was OK too. We make our own decisions.

Yes, people talking absolute BS to try and influence the decisions of others is wrong. Especially when it is based on complete nonsense. On the other hand if you blindly trust "the experts" then one day you will no doubt experience the betrayal of that trust. This is reality.

If you are sitting there and asking yourself how it's possible that people could not trust large corporations, very very rich individuals, the media and their own governments then I would suggest that you don't know very much about the world at all.

The best any one of us can do is just take personal responsibility for ourselves. If you think a friend or loved one is being brainwashed by bad actors then it's your responsibility to be kind and gentle and do your best to steer them away. Berating others or mocking them or generally being an arrogant, overbearing, control freak probably isn't going to work out so well.

This is generally what I think. We should try both to assume positive intent in others and make sure we have it ourselves. So if we actually want people to get the vaccine, we should try and come at it from the angle that we actually care about them. And if we don’t care, maybe just shut fuck up, because if we’re just talking to lord it over people we think are stupid that we don’t care about, that is a pretty shitty thing to do and it’s probably best to keep our mouths shut as it’s counter productive to getting people to take the vaccines.

Instead of assuming unvaccinated people are just selfish, ignorant retards, maybe we should assume they are actually worried and confused and take those feelings seriously. Is it that crazy that someone, having experienced the last 18 months, would be hesitant to stick the latest, greatest Big Pharma produced, government approved miracle drug into their arm a few months after it has become available?

The vaccines appear very effective. We can talk to people about getting them. I’ve talked to family members a bit. I have the benefit of seeing the impact of the vaccines at the hospital, so that helps. But I don’t berate people. If they listen to me and still don’t want the shots, so be it. I hope they’ll be fine, and statistically speaking, they likely will be. And if not, I can live with that too. That’s life.

Obviously I don’t live up to my ideals all the time. Particularly here at times. But I do try to practice it in my personal life. The way we treat each other is a hell of a lot more important than covid will ever be.

QFT by QSD

 

[TheDreadBaron]

QFT by QSD

QED

 

[FunkMiller]

LOL era. Was on a covid thread. See "US posts 90k cases as states report weekend backlog" and they're all like "oh my god we're doomed!" "this has to be a record for daily cases?!!" Just completely ignored the qualifier that the poster literally had right there.

I’m not sure who I dislike more at this stage, the shit stain, brain dead anti-vaxxers, or the doom mongers who actively seem to hate hearing good news, and over exaggerate everything.

Why can’t people take a more balanced, rational approach?

…fuck it, you don’t need to answer. Social media, innit.

 

[Nobody_Important]

DOJ says federal law doesn’t bar businesses, agencies from mandating Covid vaccines

The opinion was released shortly after the VA became the first federal agency to require shots for employees.

www.politico.com

 

[Chaplain]

 

[Azzurri]

No bias here at all folks

 

[Raven117]

So.....are we getting back to talking about masks now?

This is lunacy if true from a scientific perspective (assuming vaccinated people are encouraged to wear masks).

Say whatever you want about masks before vaccinations...but with vaccinations....this is absolutely stupid.

 

[RoboFu]

The big issues right now are

- that kids up to 12 cannot get a vacccine. EVen though the numbers and data staet that kids in this range are not nearly as succeptable to the virus it would still be better peace of mind for everyone if they could get them.
- Dumb asses who wont get a vaccine who are just feeds mutations putting everyone else at future risk. Dont be a dumb ass.. get vaccinated.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So.....are we getting back to talking about masks now?

This is lunacy if true from a scientific perspective (assuming vaccinated people are encouraged to wear masks).

Say whatever you want about masks before vaccinations...but with vaccinations....this is absolutely stupid.

Well, the original rationale for removing the mask recommendation was based on the idea that vaccinated people rarely get infected or transmit the virus and that narrative is collapsing by the day.

I think a lot of people are going to be absolutely pissed since they will feel they "did their part" for little benefit, but we'll see...

 

[Deleted member 17706]

- Dumb asses who wont get a vaccine who are just feeds mutations putting everyone else at future risk. Dont be a dumb ass.. get vaccinated.

This is bullshit. Really disgusting to see this narrative get built up in the last week or so. Lots of people parroting it and its very dangerous while simultaneously not even being true (at least to any significant degree).

 

[Raven117]

Well, the original rationale for removing the mask recommendation was based on the idea that vaccinated people rarely get infected or transmit the virus and that narrative is collapsing by the day.

I think a lot of people are going to be absolutely pissed since they will feel they "did their part" for little benefit, but we'll see...

Is the science saying that vaccinated people do get infected (in a meaningful way...not just a handful of breakthroughs...and transmit the virus in a meaningful way?)

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Is the science saying that vaccinated people do get infected (in a meaningful way...not just a handful of breakthroughs...and transmit the virus in a meaningful way?)

The US authorities haven't admitted it yet, but I think the data from around the world certainly indicates that is the case.

 

[RoboFu]

This is bullshit. Really disgusting to see this narrative get built up in the last week or so. Lots of people parroting it and its very dangerous while simultaneously not even being true (at least to any significant degree).

People not getting vaccinated is disgusting and the most selfish thing Ive seen.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

People not getting vaccinated is disgutting and the most selfish thing Ive seen.

You are very sheltered and probably a bit deranged if that is the case.

 

[RoboFu]

You are very sheltered and probably a bit deranged if that is the case.

The data clearly shows non vacinated people are pushing the numbers up again. Non vacinated people pushing numbers because of NEW strains. If you somehow think thats not proof enough then i do not know what to say. ( mainly because I am a civilized person)

 

[Deleted member 17706]

The data clearly shows non vacinated people are pushing the numbers up again. Non vacinated people pushing numbers because of NEW strains. If you somehow think thats not proof enough then i do not know what to say. ( mainly because I am a civilized person)

Which set of data indicates this? Delta spreads through every country it enters regardless of vaccination levels.

 

[RoboFu]

Which set of data indicates this? Delta spreads through every country it enters regardless of vaccination levels.

take your pick and use yoiur brain. if unvaccinated people are pushing the numbers then THEY are the ones pushing the mutations. its not rocket science.

covid unvaccinated numbers - Google Search

www.google.com

"Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated"

"As Connecticut's COVID-19 numbers begin to tick upward again, ... overwhelming majority of patients they treat for COVID-19 are unvaccinated"

" Almost All U.S. COVID-19 Deaths Now in the Unvaccinated "

 

[Dr_Salt]

take your pick and use yoiur brain. if unvaccinated people are pushing the numbers then THEY are the ones pushing the mutations. its not rocket science.

covid unvaccinated numbers - Google Search

www.google.com

"Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated"

"As Connecticut's COVID-19 numbers begin to tick upward again, ... overwhelming majority of patients they treat for COVID-19 are unvaccinated"

" Almost All U.S. COVID-19 Deaths Now in the Unvaccinated "

So people can make these types of claims with no backup science but as soon someone questions anything about the vaccine then its wrong and you are antiscience.

Only fact here is that the vaccine does not prevent the virus from mutating. Not only that but leaky vaccines like this one can even create more virulent and deadly strains. If the unvaxxed were the ones driving these mutations then we would be seeing msm shilling that narrative to oblivion.

 

[Raven117]

The US authorities haven't admitted it yet, but I think the data from around the world certainly indicates that is the case.

This is huge if true…. But I haven’t seen anything that shows that “breakthroughs” and transmission from vaccinated people happen in any meaningful way.

 

[DeepBreath87]

So people can make these types of claims with no backup science but as soon someone questions anything about the vaccine then its wrong and you are antiscience.

Only fact here is that the vaccine does not prevent the virus from mutating. Not only that but leaky vaccines like this one can even create more virulent and deadly strains. If the unvaxxed were the ones driving these mutations then we would be seeing msm shilling that narrative to oblivion.

The whole idea that unvaccinated people would develop a mutation that avoided the vaccine never made sense. Why and how would the virus mutate to circumvent the vaccine unless it was encountering the antibodies created by the vaccine inside vaccinated people?

 

[RoboFu]

So people can make these types of claims with no backup science but as soon someone questions anything about the vaccine then its wrong and you are antiscience.

Only fact here is that the vaccine does not prevent the virus from mutating. Not only that but leaky vaccines like this one can even create more virulent and deadly strains. If the unvaxxed were the ones driving these mutations then we would be seeing msm shilling that narrative to oblivion.

Again it is not rocket science. If unvaccinated people are the vast majority of people wwith the virus it is them who are pushing the variants. Its alwasy the hosts. without the hosts there is no virus.

 

[thefool]

This is huge if true…. But I haven’t seen anything that shows that “breakthroughs” and transmission from vaccinated people happen in any meaningful way.

Island post

French Guiana outbreak post

 

[RoboFu]

The whole idea that unvaccinated people would develop a mutation that avoided the vaccine never made sense. Why and how would the virus mutate to circumvent the vaccine unless it was encountering the antibodies created by the vaccine inside vaccinated people?

come on! viruses always mutate to be better viruses. the longer you give it to run wild the better (faster) it becomes at being a virus. Its biology 101 we learned in high school. unvaccinated people are allowing the virus to run wild as hard as it can go.

 

[DeepBreath87]

come on! viruses always mutate to be better viruses. the longer you give it to run wild the better it becaomes at being a virus. Its biology 101 we learned in high school. unvaccinated people are allowing the virus to run wild as hard as it can go.

They mutate due to biological pressures. In this case the vaccine would be the pressure. So in order to mutate in a way that would render the vaccines ineffective, the virus would have to encounter and infect vaccinated people. This is biology 101.

 

[Dr_Salt]

Again it is not rocket science. If unvaccinated people are the vast majority of people wwith the virus it is them who are pushing the variants. Its alwasy the hosts. without the hosts there is no virus.

You can get and pass the virus even if you are double vaxxed. Show the receipts of what you are stating. Until then its mere speculation nothing more.

 

[QSD]

This is huge if true…. But I haven’t seen anything that shows that “breakthroughs” and transmission from vaccinated people happen in any meaningful way.

At my job everyone's been vaccinated. Of say 25 colleagues we've had 2 cases of infection in the last month. I don't think they are spreading it though.