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[sublimit]

Regardless of power i think it will take quite some time until we see current quality PS360 games on WiiU.Its first games will look more or less like the early PS360 games probably even worse.

 

[LCGeek]

The fact that we didn't have a "Gears of War" moment at this years E3 tells me that Nintendo
have spent so long working on Gamecube/Wii level hardware that they lack the skills and talent to produce real next gen looking games.
Which explains why a lot of WiiU games look like upscaled Wii games.

I think it's going to take them a long while to adjust.

Being realistic gears of war didn't show up until 360 was a year in to it's life. WiiU has yet to actually be launched.

Also the zelda demo is just laughing at the comment you made. The reason the WiiU games look like upscaled Wii games is because they are Wii ports or using Wii/Gc based assets.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

The wii to ps360 comparison is like trying to play modern pc games on a single core, single threaded, 2.1ghz cpu with integrated graphics only supporting vga output. You can't even PLAY the same games, you have to have new one made just so your low spec machine can run it. For example, no amount of lowering the settings on gta4 will allow you to play on integrated graphics, and a single core cpu.

The Wii U to nextbox/ps4 is like having a older graphics card and trying to play modern games. You can still run it, you just turn most settings to low and some to medium. You can easily play most games on an old 4890 and a dual core if you just turn down settings, I was doing that until a week ago when it burned out, playing crysis 2, dead space, etc. If the Wii u want's ports of next gen games, they should only have to reduce the effects and poly counts for Wii U (Although with tesselation support poly counts dont have to do a huge jump like they did this gen). The cpu might limit it in the future a bit, for example a dual core on bf3 just doesn't get more than 30fps no matter the graphical settings.

It's not the same situation here as it was in 2006

 

[ironcreed]

The WiiU is a mid-generation jump and will be closer in performace to the NextBox and PS4 than the Wii was to the 360 and PS3, so at least power wise it is in a better position than the Wii was. I doubt that will translate into better developer support for the WiiU, but at the very least Nintendo's games are going to make a MASSIVE jump in graphical fidelity. If you're a fan of their games that should be a pretty damn good reason to be excited about the WiiU.

Probably about dead on and the best way to look at it.

 

[GhostTrick]

Regardless of power i think it will take quite some time until we see current quality PS360 games on WiiU.Its first games will look more or less like the early PS360 games probably even worse.

LOL. Pikmin is already current quality PS360 games, and so are ZombiU and AssCreed3. Maybe not top quality, but same level.
Early PS360 games looked like upres Xbox games.

 

[test_account]

Haha. I think our disagreement will be it being failure. I don't see it selling like Wii, but I do see it reaching 70-80M. That's far from a failure.

People call the PSP a failure at that level, so you'll probably see comments of failure. I agree with you though, 70-80 million is not a failure.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I don't understand why they're witholding the technical specifications.

If I am going to buy the hardware, don't I have a right to know what it's comprised of? Just as a cake manufacturer would print its ingredients on the side of the packet, so should Nintendo.

Nintendo hasn't played that game since the last time it screwed them.

They gave out realworld expectations for games on the GCN. This did not ingratiate them to the spec oriented gamer, and their spotty technical documentation in the face of Microsoft's unrivaled documentation left them at odds with developers.

Easiest system to make a game on, one of the hardest to make that game look good on. (because of said "spotty" documentation of capabilities.)

 

[cyberheater]

Can we all just agree that WiiU is more powerful than the current gen and stop using phrases like "around the same ballpark" and "on par".

It makes it sound like the WiiU is slightly weaker in some aspects that current gen, but that is simple not true.

If anything, the phrases should be "PS360 on par with WiiU" or "PS360 around the ball the same ballpark as WiiU" if you insist on comparing the consoles.

It's not just about the power of the console. It's about the maturity and optimizations of the development tools, the tool chain. And the experience of the devs on the hardware. Add it all together and you've got a system that's less powerful then current gen at the moment.

 

[donny2112]

Just as a cake manufacturer would print its ingredients on the side of the packet, so should Nintendo.

You're not going to die from a PPC allergy, though.

Just wait for anandtech's tech breakdown closer to launch, if you want to know what's in the box.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Hahaha. With situations changed, they'd probably be the ones it would be hard to convince to get onboard with a major game at launch, rather than when there was a higher userbase to sell to. Their launch game would probably be the Nintendo Land equivalent for Kinect or whatever.

I agree, I think a lot of Sony / MS fans wet dream would be for in the middle of the next E3 conference for Shigeryu to come out and tap Don Mattrick / Jack Tretton on the shoulder.

 

[DragonSworne]

PSP is a failure because of software sales, not hardware sales.

What good do those numbers do if everyone just plays pirated games?

 

[plagiarize]

As a PC owner you should also understand that the beast of hardware you have is being held back by this console cycle. The faster we exit this situation (that would be if WiiU was true next gen hardware processing wise) the better for your interests.

i don't think the Wii held back PC games at all, and i don't think the Wii U will either. the 360 and the PS3 need to go away. even if the Wii U was a DX11 level UE4 horsepower capable system it too would just end up getting held back exactly the same way the PC has been until the PS3 and 360 are phased out. those have the userbases after all.

and even if the Wii U is a huge success it's not going to be so big a success to hold back PS4, Next Xbox and PC games.

so i don't think the Wii U is going to impact on PC gaming at all, though the PC will continue to be leashed to the PS/Xbox consoles for better or worse.

 

[Diablos54]

It's not just about the power of the console. It's about the maturity and optimizations of the development tools, the tool chain. And the experience of the devs on the hardware. Add it all together and you've got a system that's less powerful then current gen at the moment.

You really need to stop with this less powerful shit. We KNOW it's more powerful, 100%. It's not debatable. By how much, that's up in the air. But it's not less powerful, that's a god damn fact.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

The fact that we didn't have a "Gears of War" moment at this years E3 tells me that Nintendo
have spent so long working on Gamecube/Wii level hardware that they lack the skills and talent to produce real next gen looking games.
Which explains why a lot of WiiU games look like upscaled Wii games.

I think it's going to take them a long while to adjust.

This argument I can't agree with.

I don't think two games, one that started development on a different class of hardware and another not bound by technical acuity, are the way to decide if they can or can't.

Even the most backward of companies still have their teams keep up on the latest and greatest tech. I'd be shocked if Nintendo was any different.

 

[donny2112]

People call the PSP a failure at that level, so you'll probably see comments of failure

That's moreso due to the software situation and it's near total death outside Japan after only a couple of years on the market. If Wii U does that, too, then calling it a PSP-style failure would be appropriate.

 

[Christine]

For the sake of argument, if Nintendo had gone third party right now, do you think their launch title for the Xbox720 wouldn't be NSMB2 with avatars instead of Miis?

I love for the sake of arguments. NSMB 720 would definitely appear, but having it make launch would be far less important to Nintendo, so it might not show up until the console's 2nd holiday season.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I agree with you on 3rd-party help. They need it. I'm not saying they don't.

All I was arguing was that the Wii wouldn't have taken a huge nosedive had Nintendo actually shown the consumer that there was something good on the horizon. They didn't, and it tanked. All it would have taken was another 2D-Mario and/or another Mario Kart. That's it. They could easily have done that if they took resources away from a DS/3DS project or something of that nature. To be quite honest, after seeing E3, I'm still puzzled as to what they've actually been doing over the past year.

I think Nintendo's problem was that the 3DS was so poorly launched that they were forced into putting more resources into it than was originally planned.

You auto refuted your argument. Resources are limited, maybe that's what Ninetndo should take into consideration.

I wonder what exactly is the advantage of releasing a year in advance of the competition? The hardware won't be competitive, no chance to catch up in the online service arena. The concept of the device is not as hot a the Wii ever was. Nintendo has a big cult following, it's more or less guaranteed to them a healthy profit margin after a console cycle. So why not release later, go for some more competitive specs and have more mature software showcases?

For what it amounts, they will look similar to the PS3/360 at a higher price but with a device that has superficial applications for software (at least in launch).

 

[Van Owen]

You can side with whoever you like on whatever subject you choose. Your statement that everybody else is saying differently to bg was plain wrong, though.

You cannot properly compare platforms until you subject them to similar workloads. The one proper way to see what wiiU can or cannot do vis-a-vis the competition is (1) when developers are well familiar with all platforms and then (2) devs try to downport workloads originating from the stronger platform(s). Unless both (1) and (2) are met it's all conjectures.

Well, 1 certainly isn't being met since current gen games aren't running better than the 360 versions. And while the architectures arent exactly the same, they're certainly similar.

 

[ironcreed]

You really need to stop with this less powerful shit. We KNOW it's more powerful, 100%. It's not debatable. By how much, that's up in the air. But it's not less powerful, that's a god damn fact.

"Shut ups, it haz teh powaz!"

Just messin' with ya, man, lol.

 

[mckmas8808]

Even with my limited technological prowess I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that 2nd or 3rd generation games on WiiU will blow away anything released around launch.

But the question is what will they look like compared to 2nd generation PS4 and X720 games?

 

[Out of Working Order]

Is this your first Nintendo system?

No. The Wii was the first Nintendo system I bought myself, however.

This is a HD machine. Surely they realise tech savvy gamers will be interested in this?

Edit - Just read posts above, thanks. And no, I don't think I am allergic to CPUs or RAM, ha ha!

 

[jetjevons]

You really need to stop with this less powerful shit. We KNOW it's more powerful, 100%. It's not debatable. By how much, that's up in the air. But it's not less powerful, that's a god damn fact.

How do we know? And I'm not trolling I've just been busy at E3 and missed the specs release or whatever. What do we know as a fact?

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I wonder what exactly is the advantage of releasing a year in advance of the competition? The hardware won't be competitive

The thing is, it is absolutely pure speculation that it won't be competitive hardware.

Are Sony doing so well as a company that they are going to want to cut their own throat financially to ensure hardware sales? If yes, where are those Vita price cuts?

Are Microsoft going to want to go bleeding-edge, when the biggest success they have seen is with the Kinect and positioning themselves as a media box, not as a games console?

I mean, sure, we all have expectations that the PS4 / 720 are going to come out big with the tech specs, but we all had expectations that the PS3 was going to be the natural successor to the PS2.

It's absolutely too early to say if the WiiU is going to be a dreamcast, or if it's going to be a PS2.

 

[LCGeek]

This is a HD machine. Surely they realise tech savvy gamers will be interested in this?

The same tech savvy gamers you mentioned are the ones that had to be educated to use hdmi and component cables over rcas. Not everyone that buys an hd display or hd based machines is automatic wiz enthusiast for gaming or the hardware to display or run it right.

 

[gamergirly]

You really need to stop with this less powerful shit. We KNOW it's more powerful, 100%. It's not debatable. By how much, that's up in the air. But it's not less powerful, that's a god damn fact.

best way of putting it

 

[Diablos54]

How do we know? And I'm not trolling I've just been busy at E3 and missed the specs release or whatever. What do we know as a fact?

More RAM, better GPU and a comparable CPU (At the least). It's more powerful just by the virtue of having about 1.5GB of RAM.

best way of putting it

"Shut ups, it haz teh powaz!"

Just messin' with ya, man, lol.

I think that's the closest I've ever come to a meltdown on GAF lol.

 

[jmdajr]

Why we gotta be down on Dreamcast :/

 

[v1oz]

Is this your first Nintendo system?

I remember the days when they gave out extremely conservative technical specs. The specs for the GC made it look weaker than PS2 at pushing polys.

In this day and age I'd prefer Nintendo just published the full specs. This will end all the speculation and everyone can just move on. Gamers need to be informed about these things there's no reason to be so secretive.

 

[ironcreed]

This is a HD machine. Surely they realise tech savvy gamers will be interested in this?

This, plus they are obviously going out of their way to get third party support with games like ACIII, Batman: AC, NG III and the exclusive in ZombieU. That is why I laugh every time someone tells me that Nintendo is not trying to compete with Microsoft and Sony. If that is the case, then why are they trying to play catch-up tech-wise and with third party support? Seems like they want some of that base to me. But I just don't think their current strategy is going to pay off and the timing could not be more dismal.

 

[test_account]

That's moreso due to the software situation and it's near total death outside Japan after only a couple of years on the market. If Wii U does that, too, then calling it a PSP-style failure would be appropriate.

The software part could be better indeed, but i simply cant get around to call ~70 million hardware and close to 350 million software copies sold as a failure. "Could do better" maybe, but not anywhere near failure in my opinion.

It would be the same with Wii, the 3rd party software has been pretty much dead during the last 2-3 years. I cant get around to call the Wii a failure because of that. If so, it has to be specifed exactly what the failure is referring to, but it is not about sales at least.

 

[donny2112]

Gamers need to be informed about these things there's no reason to be so secretive.

Their position is that the exact specs don't matter, but rather the games. They're correct on some level, but if the specs keep the games from coming to the system, at all, or force the games into a twisted form (e.g. Dead Rising Wii), then the specs do matter.

 

[BobLoblaw]

Nintendo would make more money by surviving on - at best - 50% revenue of software sales only, rather than on 50-100% of their own software sales, plus 30%+ of every other title sold on their platform?

Really?

Yes, really. You do realize that if Nintendo put some of their IPs on other platforms (Orbis, Durango, iOS, Android, etc) that they would make billions, right? Mario, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Metroid? Those would sell hundreds of millions of units across all platforms and Nintendo wouldn't be burdened with having to sink money into R&D or manufacturing on hardware. They could just focus on their games since hardware clearly isn't their strong suit anymore. And that, in and of itself, would benefit gamers across the world.

 

[cyberheater]

You really need to stop with this less powerful shit. We KNOW it's more powerful, 100%. It's not debatable. By how much, that's up in the air. But it's not less powerful, that's a god damn fact.

I have two taps. One is small but is opened all the way. The other is slightly larger but is only half turned on. Which tap is delivering more water.

Extra credit question. Which tap is more like WiiU.

 

[Donnie]

Erm 1.5x as strong or 1.5x stronger?, there's a big difference between the two.

If the rep meant only 1.5x as powerful then he's wrong, plain and simple.

 

[DragonSworne]

I din't understand why Nintendo won't release the specs.

The casual gamers will never read them or understand them and the hardcore gamers will get a better understanding of what is possible on the system.

It's not like Nintendo needs to mass board cast the specs, just release it on there site somewhere.

 

[donny2112]

It would be the same with Wii, the 3rd party software has been pretty much dead during the last 2-3 years. I cant get around to call the Wii a failure because of that.

If the Wii were being judged solely on third-party industry support, it could easily be called a failure. With it having exclusive support of the highest selling console software publisher in the world, though, that changes the picture some. PSP has no such first-party ace-in-the-hole, so judging its overall software is essentially judging its third-party software. Even the better-than-before Japanese results don't compare to what the DS was doing pre-2010, though.

If so, it has to be specifed exactly what the failure is referring to,

Oh, yeah. Context is key.

 

[Diablos54]

Yes, really. You do realize that if Nintendo put some of their IPs on other platforms (Orbis, Durango, iOS, Android, etc) that they would make billions, right? Mario, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Metroid? Those would sell hundreds of millions of units across all platforms and Nintendo wouldn't be burdened with having to sink money into R&D or manufacturing on hardware. They could just focus on their games since hardware clearly isn't their strong suit anymore. And that, in and of itself, would benefit gamers across the world.

Every other publisher would be PISSED. I kinda want to see it happen one day just to see their reaction lol.

I have two taps. One is small but is opened all the way. The other is slightly larger but is only half turned on. Which tap is delivering more water.

Extra credit question. Which tap is more like WiiU.

... I need to know the difference between the size of the taps before I could make a judgement. Slighter larger isn't enough information. Plus this is a stupid metaphor.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Yes, really. You do realize that if Nintendo put some of their IPs on other platforms (Orbis, Durango, iOS, Android, etc) that they would make billions, right? Mario, Pokemon, Donkey Kong, Metroid? Those would sell hundreds of millions of units across all platforms and Nintendo wouldn't be burdened with having to sink money into R&D or manufacturing on hardware. They could just focus on their games since hardware clearly isn't their strong suit anymore. And that, in and of itself, would benefit gamers across the world.

The DS alone has made more revenue than the entire iOS ecosystem.

 

[Van Owen]

I din't understand why Nintendo won't release the specs.

The casual gamers will never read them or understand them and the hardcore gamers will get a better understanding of what is possible on the system.

It's not like Nintendo needs to mass board cast the specs, just release it on there site somewhere.

Because they aren't impressive and they'll get picked up by multiple media outlets regardless.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

It's absolutely too early to say if the WiiU is going to be a dreamcast, or if it's going to be a PS2.

If the WiiU is 299, a 349/399 machine from Sony or Microsoft making slimmer (but still profitable) margins could very plausibly outperform the WiiU specs given in this thread by a factor of 2 or 3. Without the tablet controller, and with an extra year, they can do more with less, technically.

 

[v1oz]

More RAM, better GPU and a comparable CPU (At the least). It's more powerful just by the virtue of having about 1.5GB of RAM.



I think that's the closest I've ever come to a meltdown on GAF lol.

Well there might be bottlenecks that affect the extra RAM. With PS3 you know, you can cache textures on the HDD allowing for higher quality art. With WiiU you have to store everything in memory as the disc is very slow. We also don't know how fast the RAM is since they abandoned 1TSRAM.

 

[darthdago]

first time I saw that comparison but its looking ok to me...

http://nintendoeverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/batman_arkham_city_wii_u_ps3_comparison.jpg

 

[cyberheater]

It's absolutely too early to say if the WiiU is going to be a dreamcast, or if it's going to be a PS2.

The thing that made the PS2 so successful was the hundreds of great first party games on it plus huge support from 3rd party devs so yeah. I've got a idea which way WiiU will go.

 

[tkscz]

But the question is what will they look like compared to 2nd generation PS4 and X720 games?

Hard to say. It all depends on how well Nintendo built their machine and what features it supports.

Think of it this way, we know the WiiU supports compute shaders, so will the other 2. Compute shaders can be at a level equal to DX10 or DX11. Obviously the other two will be on the level of DX11, but we don't know what WiiU will use. From what I can gather from the guys who know, it's closer to the DX11 side.

Like wise the WiiU has a tessellator unit, but so does the 360. So it could be one close to DX11 or DX9, we don't know.

If Nintendo played their cards right, the WiiU will have shaders that makes it's games look at the very least, close enough to compete. But other things will be obvious, like lack of geometry, not as detailed lighting, not as many particles, stuff like that.

Try thinking of it like the 3DS, geometry wise, it's the gamecube, but because it supports OpenGL ES 1.1 (around DX9 level shaders), it's games can look somewhere between Xbox and 360.

 

[Diablos54]

Well there might be bottlenecks that affect the extra RAM. With PS3 you know, you can cache textures on the HDD allowing for higher quality art. With WiiU you have to store everything in memory as the disc is very slow. We also don't know how fast the RAM is since they abandoned 1TSRAM.

All true. The one thing I will say is that Nintendo are usually very good at producing a system with as little bottlenecks as possible. The Pikmin in the GC is proof enough of this.

The thing that made the PS2 so successful was the hundreds of great first party games on it plus huge support from 3rd party devs so yeah. I've got a idea which way WiiU will go.

Hundreds? I can't remember there being that many...

And no, you don't know which way it'll go. Who saw the Wii doing as well as it did, not many that's for sure. Same for the PS3 doing as bad as it did (Before we saw the price at least). DS rising to heaven? If the past few gens have taught us anything, it's that almost anything can happen.

 

[burst]

Considering the supposed specs, shouldn't this put nintendo in a good position to lower the price considerably when the ps4/720 launch. I would imagine nintendo would be more aggressive with price, especially since Reggie said we will be surprised by the value/price nintendo offers, read into that what ever you will though.

 

[Celine]

No. The Wii was the first Nintendo system I bought myself, however.

This is a HD machine. Surely they realise tech savvy gamers will be interested in this?

What Nintendo realized after many generation of home console sales decline in which they heavily focused on graphic features (but with they usual cost/profit spin) is that battling on that field will not bring them enough profits.

Also many Nintendo main franchises are likely to hit a ceiling soon because of the broad-appeal graphical style they always used since the NES.

 

[Refreshment.01]

The thing is, it is absolutely pure speculation that it won't be competitive hardware.

It's absolutely too early to say if the WiiU is going to be a dreamcast, or if it's going to be a PS2.

It is speculation MrNyarlathotep, but with a high probability of becoming fact.

And the Dreamcast comparison should stop, because WiiU is not even close. DreamCast steam rolled the competition, if WiiU software presented such a marked spec in relation to this generation this discussion wouldn't even exist.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

If the WiiU is 299, a 349/399 machine from Sony or Microsoft making slimmer (but still profitable) margins could very plausibly outperform the WiiU specs given in this thread by a factor of 2 or 3. Without the tablet controller, and with an extra year, they can do more with less, technically.

True, but a 299 WiiU is then poised for pricecuts against newcomers, and being a year into it's life is also more likely to start bringing out the big guns (The Mario Karts, the Metroids, the Zeldas) to spoil their launches.

A 199 WiiU with a Zelda / Metroid / Mario Kart vs a 399 "twice as good" competitor at xmas 2013 is a tougher proposition sell.

Without knowing prices, launch dates and strategies from all manufacturers, it is really impossible to make any informed speculation about how next gen will play out.
Won't stop GAF trying though.

 

[BobLoblaw]

The DS alone has made more revenue than the entire iOS ecosystem.

Links? It's not that I don't believe you, but I don't. Lol! I kid. Still, I'm interested in seeing these numbers. Last I saw, iOS/Droid had taken over the mobile market in the US and it's probably doing pretty good worldwide.