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[Liberty4all]

I wonder what the scores would be if CD2 were the first Crackdown game ever.

Probably much higher. Speaking for myself I'm enjoying Crackdown 2 but only scored it 6.5 out of 10. It's almost the exact same game I played in 2007 and it's a joke that they sold it for 60 bucks.

 

[CloakedPuppet]

As a reviewer all I can say is that rewarding Crackdown 2 with a high review score would send a message to publishers/developers that selling expansion packs for 60 dollars and calling it a sequel is ok.

It's not.

Fair enough. However I, for one, don't regret paying full price for it. I'm sure others in this thread feel the same way.

 

[goldenpp72]

I wonder what the scores would be if CD2 were the first Crackdown game.

Reviewers feel the need to save us from fun games.

 

[Liberty4all]

Fair enough. However I, for one, don't regret paying full price for it. I'm sure others in this thread feel the same way.

Most hardcore fans of the original Crackdown will love Crackdown 2 ... it's a very beefy expansion pack, more of the same so why wouldn't they? I'm enjoying it too!

That's not the issue.

The issue is the blatant reuse of game assets, the lack of any kind of innovation in something they are calling a "sequel", the selling of aforementioned package for quadruple what it should be selling for.

 

[soldat7]

As a reviewer all I can say is that rewarding Crackdown 2 with a high review score would send a message to publishers/developers that selling expansion packs for 60 dollars and calling it a sequel is ok.

It's not.

Calling it an expansion pack is a bit disingenuous. There's always the age-old question of price vs. value ($40 would have been more appropriate, perhaps), but I wouldn't classify Crackdown 2 as an expansion pack in this age of $10/hour DLC.

 

[afternoon delight]

The issue is the blatant reuse of game assets, the lack of any kind of innovation in something they are calling a "sequel", the selling of aforementioned package for quadruple what it should be selling for.

...and the downgrading of some aspects. Would have been so damn hard to make each clearing mission as unique as the crime bosses in the game three years before it? And that's saying something, because they weren't that stand-alone in the first place.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Most hardcore fans of the original Crackdown will love Crackdown 2 ... it's a very beefy expansion pack, more of the same so why wouldn't they? I'm enjoying it too!

That's not the issue.

The issue is the blatant reuse of game assets, the lack of any kind of innovation in something they are calling a "sequel", the selling of aforementioned package for quadruple what it should be selling for.

What "assets" exactly? Wireframes? I find it hard to believe that (a) they didn't have to alter those to represent damage and (b) adding said alterations would be possible in an "expansion pack".

And that's just for starters. I can see taking issue with them using the same city, but I don't know of any gaming precedent in which what they've done to the environments and gameplay in Crackdown to make Crackdown 2 could ever be done in the confines of an "expansion pack".

But I may just not be familiar enough with the ones that have done exactly this (completely altered environment wireframes, co-op changes, etc).

 

[CloakedPuppet]

Most hardcore fans of the original Crackdown will love Crackdown 2 ... it's a very beefy expansion pack, more of the same so why wouldn't they? I'm enjoying it too!

That's not the issue.

The issue is the blatant reuse of game assets, the lack of any kind of innovation in something they are calling a "sequel", the selling of aforementioned package for quadruple what it should be selling for.

Points taken. Again - what I'm saying is that I don't regret paying full price. Others seem to feel the same. You seem to want to prevent people from buying the game at full retail - I'm just representing my point of view as someone who is happy with their purchase.

 

[kaskade]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet but the guys on the Bombcast said that they didn't get discs. MS sent them a code to download a copy off the game. If they released this on Games on Demand for 40 bucks I would definitely buy it.

 

[ShapeGSX]

The problem with Crackdown 2 is some things are worse than the original.

I don't get how people could say that some of this stuff is worse.

Freaks/Underground - Subjective, your call.

Frame rate - Better.

It is 30fps most all the time, until stuff starts getting really crazy.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-crackdown2-demo-blog-entry

Graphics - Greater draw distance, less haze, more vibrant vistas.

Targeting - This is pretty much the same. Crackdown 1 had some issues here, too, unfortunately. Honestly, it doesn't bother me much. Just shoot everything. Get the rocket launcher and everything within a 100 foot radius explodes, anyway.


I had a blast playing the game last night with 3 buddies!

 

[dskillzhtown]

What "assets" exactly? Wireframes? I find it hard to believe that (a) they didn't have to alter those to represent damage and (b) adding said alterations would be possible in an "expansion pack".

And that's just for starters. I can see taking issue with them using the same city, but I don't know of any gaming precedent in which what they've done to the environments and gameplay in Crackdown to make Crackdown 2 could ever be done in the confines of an "expansion pack".

But I may just not be familiar enough with the ones that have done exactly this (completely altered environment wireframes, co-op changes, etc).

Good points. I can't put my finger on it, but Saint's Row and Saint's Row 2 come to mind as a good comparison. They were almost identical in look, mechanics, and they added a few touches and went further with it's ober the top direction, but it was received much better. Not sure why CD2 is having such a hard time in public opinion. Is it the fact that the first was so unique that people expected the second to be just as unique? Did people expect CD2 to go further in it's direction, but instead they played it safe?

I think the game is just as fun as the first, I am enjoying it. But I can understand the idea that it is too similiar to the first.

 

[Marvie_3]

Is there a list of GAFers who play online anywhere?

 

[Bebpo]

After 4 hours I'm done with my rental. I have all the beacons activated and 5 of the 9 light bombs done and I just can't convince myself to keep playing. This is one of the most disappointing sequels I've played in a long time.

- Graphics are the same. Yet the framerate is far worst.
- The lock on is broken.
- Freaks add nothing enjoyable to the game. The underground missions are boring and don't have any strategy.
- Physics and platforming are worse. It's hard to tell if you can grab certain ledges.
- No story again.
- The fact that the city is exactly the same, makes me not want to explore and collect anything.

I give this a 5/10. It's a soulless sequel that MS threw out there to make a buck.

About how I feel, although I don't have a problem with the framerate. Definitely
~6/10ish game. What a disappointment. At least if they didn't add the freaks it'd be a fun game, but they just bring it down because they're no fun to fight against. Especially in the underground missions.

 

[Owzers]

The problem with the freaks is the same Resistance 2 had with giant monsters....they don't do anything. You can't just put some freaks in a game and go " well shooting them is fun, go shoot them," you have to put interesting missions around them and Ruffian didn't want to do that to accommodate 4 player co-op shenanigans.


ehhhhhh i guess i just wanted Crackdown 2 to go in a different direction, but it went heavier towards " sandbox" land than trying to make interesting missions alongside the open world.

 

[Hugbot]

ehhhhhh i guess i just wanted Crackdown 2 to go in a different direction, but it went heavier towards " sandbox" land than trying to make interesting missions alongside the open world.

That's understandable, but I think the Prototype/Uncharted set has that angle pretty well covered. Crackdown was a much better sandbox than a set of missions, and the sequel is the same. They made a good deal of sandbox improvements, but basically just played lip service to mission structures. This is fantastic for people like me, who only wanted a great sandbox with a few very loosely structured activities, but not so much for people who wanted a diverse set of missions.

At least you gave it a shot, even if it wasn't your thing.

 

[Owzers]

That's understandable, but I think the Prototype/Uncharted set has that angle pretty well covered. Crackdown was a much better sandbox than a set of missions, and the sequel is the same. They made a good deal of sandbox improvements, but basically just played lip service to mission structures. This is fantastic for people like me, who only wanted a great sandbox with a few very loosely structured activities, but not so much for people who wanted a diverse set of missions.

At least you gave it a shot, even if it wasn't your thing.

Blockbuster Game Pass, on occassion, is really worthwhile. I save up a few games then go nuts playing through everything, then cancel when i buy a game so i dont waste rental time on something i own.

 

[Mrbob]

My additions in bold:

I don't get how people could say that some of this stuff is worse.

Freaks/Underground - Subjective, your call.

Frame rate - Better. Until you get some freaks onscreen and it plummets like crazy

It is 30fps most all the time, until stuff starts getting really crazy.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-crackdown2-demo-blog-entry

Graphics - Greater draw distance, less haze, more vibrant vistas. Muddier, less colorful look than Crackdown. Even the devs admit they will fix this in DLC

Targeting - This is pretty much the same. Crackdown 1 had some issues here, too, unfortunately. Honestly, it doesn't bother me much. Just shoot everything. Get the rocket launcher and everything within a 100 foot radius explodes, anyway. Except you have more enemies and objects onscreen and Ruffian didn't modify the targeting system for this new setup


I had a blast playing the game last night with 3 buddies!

Glad you are having fun with it, so am I. Still doesn't change my mind about the problems I feel this game has. I do think there are those have their head in the sand about the game's problem and are using the fun argument to deflect Crackdown 2's nagging issues. Because while it may not bother you, these issues make the game less fun for others. I hope Ruffian can fix some of these things at a low cost to the consumer in DLC. I want to see this series evolve, and this game seems more like a side step.

 

[Bebpo]

I agree that as a sandbox it's still ok. Some stuff better, some stuff worse. Albiet a less interesting sandbox, since it's the same sandbox you've already explored in Crackdown 1. If C2 had no missions at all and was just C1's sandbox with more weapons, more vehicles more powers, new orbs, and 4p coop for $30 it'd be a solid expansion.

But the problem is they went beyond that and tried to make an actual "real game" beyond the sandbox with missions and they all suck badly, which brings the game down.

If you just ignore all the missions in the game and don't care about seeing the ending or the story, and just run around and explore the sandbox, getting all the orbs and leveling up solo or with your buddies...it's a fun game as long as you ignore the price and the feeling of deja vu.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

THIS^^^^

CRACKDOWN 2 is what you make of it. To me its just a huge playground with stuff to climb and jump off of. Powerful guns, explosives, cars its all part of the toys. Racing, rooftop racing, stunt markers etc., etc., and etc..

And a playground that you could almost exactly replicate in Crackdown 1 verbatim and have just as good a time.

Crackdown 2 hasn't earned a single second of the fun I've had with it; it's just coasting on the fact that it's the only other game like Crackdown out there, and Crackdown is still a ton of fun.

 

[Imperial Hot]

I don't know if I neccesarily like this game, but I can't stop playing it. I have activated all the the light beacons, have two light bombs to detonate, and three gang hideouts to destroy.

I haven't touched any of the races or breaches.

 

[SapientWolf]

I agree that as a sandbox it's still ok. Some stuff better, some stuff worse. Albiet a less interesting sandbox, since it's the same sandbox you've already explored in Crackdown 1. If C2 had no missions at all and was just C1's sandbox with more weapons, more vehicles more powers, new orbs, and 4p coop for $30 it'd be a solid expansion.

But the problem is they went beyond that and tried to make an actual "real game" beyond the sandbox with missions and they all suck badly, which brings the game down.

If you just ignore all the missions in the game and don't care about seeing the ending or the story, and just run around and explore the sandbox, getting all the orbs and leveling up solo or with your buddies...it's a fun game as long as you ignore the price and the feeling of deja vu.

I feel like they would have been better served by improving the multiplayer offering. An objective based agency vs agency mode would be great.

 

[Nelo Ice]

so i got this $34 cant decide whether to return it or hopefully flip to amazon/gs or whoever will give me the highest value :lol

i enjoyed the demo but if its like cd1 then i never beat that since it was too repetitive though collecting orbs and messing around in the city was a blast

 

[FrankT]

Just picked up my copy can't wait to dig in tonight.

 

[SapientWolf]

so i got this $34 cant decide whether to return it or hopefully flip to amazon/gs or whoever will give me the highest value :lol

i enjoyed the demo but if its like cd1 then i never beat that since it was too repetitive though collecting orbs and messing around in the city was a blast

I would wait until they announce the details of the Toy Box DLC before you trade it, since the focus of that seems to be adding more tools and gadgets for just messing around in the city.

 

[Mrbob]

so i got this $34 cant decide whether to return it or hopefully flip to amazon/gs or whoever will give me the highest value :lol

i enjoyed the demo but if its like cd1 then i never beat that since it was too repetitive though collecting orbs and messing around in the city was a blast

So it is unopened? You should at least play it. Otherwise why get it?

 

[Nelo Ice]

So it is unopened? You should at least play it. Otherwise why get it?

yep its sitting here sealed atm :lol

 

[les papillons sexuels]

As a reviewer all I can say is that rewarding Crackdown 2 with a high review score would send a message to publishers/developers that selling expansion packs for 60 dollars and calling it a sequel is ok.

It's not.

may I ask you opinion on mario galaxy 2. Because honestly I see no differences between growth of the two games when compared to it's predecessor.

lets do a comparison between the 2 games:
mario galaxy 2 - no real story. crackdown 2 - no real story. neither games made any advances in that category, as the previous games also featured barebones plot.
mario galaxy 2 - features a slew of new upgrades and abilities. crackdown 2 - features a slew of new weapons, vehicles and abilities. I would say this is about even between the two titles.
mario galaxy 2 - features levels that could have been in the original. crackdown 2 - features the same over world, with a couple added new sections. Mario wins this.
mario galaxy 2 - there was no attempt to introduce new game modes. crackdown 2 - introduced an online pvp multiplayer mode, and expanded on it's co-op. crackdown wins this.

So I ask you, how can you justify giving a game like mario galaxy 2 a review of 10 and yet call crackdown 2 an overpriced expansion, when both games provide a near identical amount of growth from it's predecessor?

 

[I AM JOHN!]

Are you really trying to compare Galaxy 2 to Crackdown 2? :lol

 

[Mairu]

My additions in bold:



Glad you are having fun with it, so am I. Still doesn't change my mind about the problems I feel this game has. I do think there are those have their head in the sand about the game's problem and are using the fun argument to deflect Crackdown 2's nagging issues. Because while it may not bother you, these issues make the game less fun for others. I hope Ruffian can fix some of these things at a low cost to the consumer in DLC. I want to see this series evolve, and this game seems more like a side step.

I played through the game from start to finish and didn't notice anything wrong with the framerate when there was a large amount of freaks on screen.

While there aren't really that many drastic changes from Crackdown to Crackdown 2, I do appreciate the changes that are there. The freaks dynamic makes driving actually worthwhile to me. I hated driving in Crackdown and driving was probably the only skill I never bothered to max. I like the new renegade orbs, and the new abilities you get when getting your skills to max are pretty cool. The environment is mostly the same, yeah, but lots of the big areas from CD are changed in CD2.

Its not without problem though, and because of this I hope the game doesn't do too bad in sales because I'd love to see what a real sequel to Crackdown could be. Ruffian didn't really pay attention to what realtime did with the first Crackdown as far as story is concerned and decided to take it in their own direction. I'd like to see them actually put a real story in CD3 and see what they have planned for their own vision of Crackdown.

 

[Why For?]

Are you really trying to compare Galaxy 2 to Crackdown 2? :lol

He has a point.

Crackdown 2 has added far more to the sequel than most sequels do these days and yet everyone calls it an expansion. It's beyond annoying.

The game is amazing.

Also, is it my imagination or do you power up WAY quicker than in the first game?

Or am I just playing more than I realise?

My agility is already 100%, and the rest of my abilities are all at 4/5 and climbing rapidly. It's a GOOD thing, but still, I remember taking FOR EVEEEEERRRRRRR to upgrade my driving ability especially in the first one.

 

[desertdroog]

So has Ruffian confirmed they are working on CD3 or are we just throwing out wish lists?
Did I miss an announcement?

Not seillng an OST for CD1 was a sorely missed opportunity. Is there an OST for CD2?

 

[Mairu]

My agility is already 100%, and the rest of my abilities are all at 4/5 and climbing rapidly. It's a GOOD thing, but still, I remember taking FOR EVEEEEERRRRRRR to upgrade my driving ability especially in the first one.

Freaks make getting driving up much easier

 

[Kai Dracon]

Okay, I'm one of the people defending Crackdown 2, and I can say comparing it to Mario Galaxy 2 is utterly disingenuous.

Mario Galaxy does not copy-paste levels from the original game and creates dozens, if not hundreds, of new game play scenarios across the new world designs it contains. It shares THE ART STYLE of Galaxy 1, and thus has new versions of many of the old enemies, and a few re-used enemy and NPC models.

Crackdown 2 reuses /the level/, such as it is, from Crackdown 1 and "remixes" that level to account for the new scenario and new storyline. Far less new content is created in Crackdown 2 compared to how much new content Mario Galaxy 2 creates. Citing the tacked-on deathmatch mode in Crackdown 2 as "more growth" is ridiculous. It's a practically meaningless afterthought.

Despite my defense of CD2 as being a very good game and a good value for the Crackdown fan, I would wholly agree it is a victim of the industry's price fixing schemes and should have been a $40 dollar or even $30 dollar release. (I'm an Amazon cowboy and got the game for like half price with discounts and trade-in credits.)

But no, there is far more value in Galaxy 2's fifty bucks than in Crackdown 2's sixty bucks in terms of what someone who played the prior game is getting out of it.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Was GAF this harsh on GTA4 an Saints Row 2?

Serious question.

 

[Owzers]

Was GAF this harsh on GTA4 an Saints Row 2?

Serious question.

I played Crackdown 2 for 1.5-2hrs. I made it through less than 40 minutes of GTA 4 before selling it. I'm not a fan of games where they expect you to care about the "experience" when not offering you actual gameplay that is fun. " But look at the effort!".........NO!

 

[EagleEyes]

Me and my co-op buddies are having a field day with this game. We haven't had this much of a good time since 4 player co-op in Borderlands. Highly recommended.

 

[Digital Enhancement]

After reading these impressions, it looks like I won't be getting this.

 

[RoninChaos]

Loved the first one. I do feel that CD2 isn't enough to warrant full price. They worked on this for two or three years, right? What exactly did they do? Just work on the frame rate? Three years for a game that's very similar to the one that came before it screams being lazy, in my opinion. Even something as simple as giving us a few more customization options for faces, or even more than 4 colors. I mean... seriously? I know the fun is playing with friends, and seeing what you can do, but considering how important co-op is, I'm really dissapointed they didn't give us more customization. That's my biggest dissapointment.

They didn't fix the targeting system either. 15 guys in front of me with a truck in the background? Obviously you want to target the truck! WTF, man.

 

[jjasper]

Was GAF this harsh on GTA4 an Saints Row 2?

Serious question.

GAF was harsher on GTA4.

 

[Mairu]

Loved the first one. I do feel that CD2 isn't enough to warrant full price. They worked on this for two or three years, right? What exactly did they do? A lot of this just screams being lazy, in my opinion. Even something as simple as giving us a few more customization options for faces, or even more than 4 colors. I mean... seriously? I know the fun is playing with friends, and seeing what you can do, but considering how important co-op is, I'm really dissapointed they didn't give us more customization. That's my biggest dissapointment.

This hasn't been in development since the first one came out... I think someone earlier in the thread said it had a 15? month development time.

 

[Hugbot]

Loved the first one. I do feel that CD2 isn't enough to warrant full price. They worked on this for two or three years, right? What exactly did they do? A lot of this just screams being lazy, in my opinion. Even something as simple as giving us a few more customization options for faces, or even more than 4 colors. I mean... seriously? I know the fun is playing with friends, and seeing what you can do, but considering how important co-op is, I'm really dissapointed they didn't give us more customization. That's my biggest dissapointment.

Ruffian had nowhere near 2-3 years for CD2. They started the project in early '09, iirc.

 

[soldat7]

Loved the first one. I do feel that CD2 isn't enough to warrant full price. They worked on this for two or three years, right? What exactly did they do? A lot of this just screams being lazy, in my opinion.

The development time was somewhere between 8-18 months. These guys weren't 'lazy' by any stretch of the word.

 

[RoninChaos]

Ruffian had nowhere near 2-3 years for CD2. They started the project in early '09, iirc.

Okay. So a year and a half to give us a very similar game to the first one? Without expanded options for customization? That just seems lazy, to me. I'm still enjoying the game, but I have to agree with some folks here who feel it's kind of like Crackdown 1.5. Not that it's a bad thing, because the first was so much fun, but I really expected more.

 

[soldat7]

Okay. So a year and a half to give us a very similar game to the first one? Without expanded options for customization? That just seems lazy, to me. I'm still enjoying the game, but I have to agree with some folks here who feel it's kind of like Crackdown 1.5. Not that it's a bad thing, because the first was so much fun, but I really expected more.

Here's some reading for you:

Ruffian's Hell & High Times With Crackdown 2
Eight months to make a AAA title? Ruffian did it; here's its tale.

Tech Interview: Crackdown 2

Now, how were they lazy again? Remember, they didn't self-publish this game.

 

[RoninChaos]

So was it 8 months or 18? The lack of new stuff, on an 18 month development cycle does seem lazy to me. 8 months, that's a different story. The lack of customization options does still feel like a cop out though.

 

[Hugbot]

Okay. So a year and a half to give us a very similar game to the first one? Without expanded options for customization? That just seems lazy, to me. I'm still enjoying the game, but I have to agree with some folks here who feel it's kind of like Crackdown 1.5. Not that it's a bad thing, because the first was so much fun, but I really expected more.

They had a hyper accelerated schedule and basically hit the ground running with it right after the studio formed. I'm sure every single month since January '09 has been hell trying to get this out by the deadline.

They prioritized other areas over Agent customization, and that's a fair complaint if that's something you were looking for in a sequel to Crackdown. "Lazy Dev" and "Crackdown 1.5" are just cop-out criticisms.

 

[soldat7]

So was it 8 months or 18? The lack of new stuff, on an 18 month development cycle does seem lazy to me. 8 months, that's a different story. The lack of customization options does still feel like a cop out though.

They did not self-publish Crackdown 2. They clearly had an externally defined deadline that they had to meet. I'm sure if they could have chosen their own course, they would have added 12-18 months and a completely new city. Remember, Microsoft owns the IP and can do whatever they want with it.

 

[RoninChaos]

They had a hyper accelerated schedule and basically hit the ground running with it right after the studio formed. I'm sure every single month since January '09 has been hell trying to get this out by the deadline.

They prioritized other areas over Agent customization, and that's a fair complaint if that's something you were looking for in a sequel to Crackdown. "Lazy Dev" and "Crackdown 1.5" are just cop-out criticisms.

Why are those cop out criticisms? They had a deadline, okay, fine. I get it. So they put a lot of work in to up the frame rate and add four player co-op. That doesn't change the fact that the game didn't really do anything new compared to the first one besides the two things I mentioned.

What features haven't I discovered in the game that evolved in this sequel? Besides the PVP that I've heard of? The targeting is the same, it still sucks. There agents all look the same. Hand to hand combat is still clunky, etc. It really feels like the same game, with a few zombies added in. That's not a bad thing, but it doesn't feel like a sequel to me. Despite those criticisms, I never said the game wasn't fun. I do, however, expect a sequel to feel like a sequel, not Super Crackdown. I'm not attacking your enjoyment of it, so how are my criticisms invalid?

 

[Bebpo]

Why is short developer time an excuse?

Maybe it's an excuse for why the game shouldn't be a negative point on the developer's records when they make future games, but it certainly isn't an excuse for the game called "Crackdown 2"

Crackdown 2 is a full $60 game marketed as the sequel to Crackdown. Whatever the developer history behind it doesn't make the slightest difference. You judge a game on its quality.

 

[eek5]

Here's some reading for you:

Ruffian's Hell & High Times With Crackdown 2
Eight months to make a AAA title? Ruffian did it; here's its tale.

Tech Interview: Crackdown 2

Now, how were they lazy again? Remember, they didn't self-publish this game.

It makes me sad that they did this:

For Crackdown 2 we completely replaced the editor too - the designers can finally see what the graphics actually look like while they are editing (pretty much anyway), which is nice! There is almost no RenderWare code left in the game now, what little there is left we could not remove this time due to risk.

and only used the editor to break some buildings apart