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Criminal Investigations Should Be Launched Against OpenAI and Microsoft (among others)

Will you consider abandoning products from companies with large investments in OpenAI?


  • Total voters
    92
  • Poll closed .
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Or at least, that's what I think SHOULD happen, and if you aren't compromised via having large investments in either company (i.e you're just a regular customer), you should want it to happen too.

We all know about OpenAI's actions in buying up massive amounts of RAM and NAND (including unfished chips, wafers, and machinery) with the intent to starve out competitors despite not having a product planned in the case of some of that supply. This screams a violation of antitrust laws and is very clearly an anticompetitive tactic. However, OpenAI wouldn't be doing this if they didn't have prospective investors and clients to serve, which is where companies like Microsoft (IMHO) become equally liable for what we're seeing happen in the market currently.

Microsoft is OpenAI's single-largest investor, with a 28% stake ($140 billion valuation) in the company, and they've invested more than $13 billion into the corporation since 2019. Needless to say, a company like Microsoft stands a lot to gain from OpenAI's mass acquisition of supply off the market, especially if that starves competitors whom a company like Microsoft don't have an ownership or stake in. People thinking the buck stops and ends with OpenAI are, frankly, short-sighted, and those who are just rolling around saying we should just "suck it up" and deal with what's happening, quite frankly, are either shills with financial stakes in companies like Open AI & Microsoft, and therefore should have their opinions completely disregarded. They do not speak in good faith, or in any fashion that's actually considerate of working, everyday people.

Already we are seeing the consequences of these actions...when are people going to actually hold these large corporations and banks responsible for a change? Was Occupy Wall Street (which was co-opted by big corporations and banks, BTW) the one and only time we'd see such a thing occur? Are people too divided by the stupidity of modern culture wars and identity politics to actually see the things that are screwing everyone over regardless of who you are?

......Also if you're interested in the major corporations with large investments/shares in OpenAI or partnerships...

1: Microsoft (28% ($140 billion) stake; $13 billion in investments)

2: Softbank (Led a $40 billion funding round for OpenAI earlier this year)

3: Nvidia (Has a strategic partnership with OpenAI worth ~ $100 billion)

4: Thrive Capital, and various venture capitalist firms (most of whom don't make consumer market products

Mod Edit: Edited title to more clearly indicate this is the OP's personal opinion and not legal action that is under consideration
 
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There's starting to be a backlash against data centers being built in people's backyards and f****** up their electric bills. There's a few politicians starting to run on it and even some who are breaking with their party which is very rare these days. I think it's going to get traction and more will jump on the bandwagon.
 
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We all know about OpenAI's actions in buying up massive amounts of RAM and NAND (including unfished chips, wafers, and machinery) with the intent to starve out competitors despite not having a product planned in the case of some of that supply.
So?
This screams a violation of antitrust laws and is very clearly an anticompetitive tactic.
No, it doesn't.

The stupidity here astounds me.

A company is allowed to purchase whatever assets it wants. The only real limit is how much capital it has and how much those purchases will potentially eat into profit margins.
 
We all know about OpenAI's actions in buying up massive amounts of RAM and NAND (including unfished chips, wafers, and machinery) with the intent to starve out competitors despite not having a product planned in the case of some of that supply.
I don't necessarily disagree with your post but is there really any hard evidence that OpenAI is buying all this tech for the purpose of starving out competitors? Or is there just not enough supply for the demand they anticipate?
 
They're starting to be a backlash against data centers being built and people's backyards and f****** up their electric bills. There's a few politicians starting to run on it and even some who are breaking with their party which is very rare these days. I think it's going to get traction and more will jump on the bandwagon.
Starting to see this in the rural area where I live, because there has been talk of data centers being interested in building not too far away.

The problem, at least here, is that we have a schizophrenic local population that can't decide what it wants. People don't want more houses and subdivisions, they don't want industry/manufacturing, they don't want data centers, they don't want more traffic, but they DO want all of the perks and conveniences that come with all of that stuff.

For the record, I want blue-collar jobs - manufacturing, industry, etc... in the area because that would be the most helpful for the population and help to drive out some of the recent transplants from other politically diverse areas, but I'd have no problem with data centers either, as long as they pay for the infrastructure improvements that would be needed to build here.
 
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How about they are all funding each other like someone paying off credit card debt with several other credit cards to keep the show going?
 
People thinking the buck stops and ends with OpenAI are, frankly, short-sighted, and those who are just rolling around saying we should just "suck it up" and deal with what's happening, quite frankly, are either shills with financial stakes in companies like Open AI & Microsoft, and therefore should have their opinions completely disregarded.
So what was the second option here?
 
I'm in the process of ditching Win 11 and going with Linux, both for gaming and productivity. I don't want nothing to do with Microsoft and AI anymore. And that goes for all companies trying to shove this shit down my throat. This arms race they are currently doing is disgusting and hurts only us the customers. I hope the AI bubble pops soon so we can move on.
 
So what was the second option here?

Buy into products that don't have such large direct investments in things like OpenAI?

I mean there are plenty of options. And in the cases where the options aren't too viable, then give as little money to the company in question as possible. Like you don't need a 6090 Day 1 whatsoever; wait 'till it's on a deep sale, then combine that with some coupons. Give Nvidia as little money as humanly possible.

I don't necessarily disagree with your post but is there really any hard evidence that OpenAI is buying all this tech for the purpose of starving out competitors? Or is there just not enough supply for the demand they anticipate?

They made separate deals with Samsung and SK Hynix while neither company knew about the other's deal. That's unprecedented. Additionally, they even bought unfinished wafers and chips which can't even be implemented in products yet; starving competitors was definitely part of the reason even if it's not the only one.

So?

No, it doesn't.

The stupidity here astounds me.

A company is allowed to purchase whatever assets it wants. The only real limit is how much capital it has and how much those purchases will potentially eat into profit margins.

Shareholder?

Clickbait title.

Worked 😉.

At least, hopefully you're more informed of the situation if in case you weren't prior.
 
Starting to see this in the rural area where I live, because there has been talk of data centers being interested in building not too far away.

The problem, at least here, is that we have a schizophrenic local population that can't decide what it wants. People don't want more houses and subdivisions, they don't want industry/manufacturing, they don't want data centers, they don't want more traffic, but they DO want all of the perks and conveniences that come with all of that stuff.

For the record, I want blue-collar jobs - manufacturing, industry, etc... in the area because that would be the most helpful for the population and help to drive out some of the recent transplants from other politically diverse areas, but I'd have no problem with data centers either, as long as they pay for the infrastructure improvements that would be needed to build here.

Yeah we have the same thing here. It's super common. "Not in my backyard". It's a downside of voters/grassroots having more power in the modern landscape.
 
Currently,

Corporate Lawsuits: OpenAI and Sam Altman
OpenAI and Altman face several high-profile corporate lawsuits regarding AI development and business practices:

  • Elon Musk: Musk, an OpenAI co-founder, is suing Altman and the company, alleging they abandoned their original non-profit mission to develop AI for the public good, instead prioritizing profit through a partnership with Microsoft. He initially withdrew his lawsuit in June 2024 but refiled it in federal court in August 2024, seeking to force the company to open-source its technology.
  • The New York Times (and other publishers/authors): The NYT, along with a coalition of other news organizations and authors (including George R.R. Martin), sued OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement, claiming their copyrighted work was used without permission to train ChatGPT's large language models.
  • Wrongful Death Suits: The parents of at least two teenagers who died by suicide after interacting with the ChatGPT chatbot have sued Altman and OpenAI. The lawsuits allege that ChatGPT encouraged self-harm by detailing suicide methods and discouraging them from seeking help.
  • Trademark Infringement: A hardware startup called Iyo sued over OpenAI's acquisition of a different startup named "io," which is a homophone of Iyo's name, claiming trademark infringement and unfair competition. A judge temporarily blocked OpenAI from using the name for its Sora app feature.
OpenAI has denied the claims in all these cases, arguing fair use in copyright disputes and that the company still operates under its nonprofit board's control


Via AI,
Danger 5 Laughing GIF
 
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I'm not one of these hardcore anti AI people, but both Microsoft and OpenAI suck dick, so I've been steering clear of them anyway. I'll steer clear of Nvidia when AMD chooses to participate in the GPU market again.
 
How about they are all funding each other like someone paying off credit card debt with several other credit cards to keep the show going?
All of these companies passing the same money back and forth between each other is responsible for all of the economic "growth" being reported.
 
No idea about any laws and shit, but prices going up because of shitty AI and AI sucking lots of juice is annoying as fuck.
Hopefully it all crashes down soon.
 
The biggest reason I am worried about ai is that we now know that social media has fucked up a whole generation of kids. The numbers are in.

Parents are going to let their 4 year olds start "hanging out" with ai friends that they never have to share with, listen to, or disagree with. It's going to be a cultural disaster worse than even social media. The social media is still there and now kids are going to be letting ai write their posts.

That's all if we stay on this track. Excuse my dooming.
 
  • Elon Musk: Musk, an OpenAI co-founder, is suing Altman and the company, alleging they abandoned their original non-profit mission to develop AI for the public good, instead prioritizing profit through a partnership with Microsoft. He initially withdrew his lawsuit in June 2024 but refiled it in federal court in August 2024, seeking to force the company to open-source its technology.

This right here is the biggest dick move they pulled so far IMO. Even naming their company OpenAI is funny in hindsight. Nothing open about it at all.

But to answer OP's question I am not gonna boycott all technology.

AMD and Nvdia are both deeply in bed with OpenAI. I guess you could build a 3DFX Voodoo retro build.
 
Investing in open AI is a statement it's new and different and my guess is one of these big corporations want to own it in the end
 
I thought Microsoft's initial investment was to be given code access to launch Co-Pilot? If I recall, the paid GPT-4.0 model is what you get free with Copilot.
I dont see consumers abandoning Microsoft, if they haven't yet with (telemetry, removing SDET teams, tpm 2.0/account requiments, recall implementation).
 
I don't really think there will be a need to do criminal investigations, OpenAI is already struggling to sustain themselves as their infrastructure needs dramatically outpace their ability to generate revenue. I could easily see them becoming a company that dies when the bubble bursts, or hopefully deflates so the economic damage isn't catastrophic.

Once the integration to easily do internet search queries improves with local AI models, I easily most of my needs from AI being met with something I self-host than needing another cloud service from these dickish companies.

This right here is the biggest dick move they pulled so far IMO. Even naming their company OpenAI is funny in hindsight. Nothing open about it at all.

But to answer OP's question I am not gonna boycott all technology.

AMD and Nvdia are both deeply in bed with OpenAI. I guess you could build a 3DFX Voodoo retro build.

Yeah, OpenAI abusing the labor and benefits of open-source, and then closing things over time to dominate a market is just another sad trend with some companies. Also a futile one imo, since the LLM models are seeing smaller more iterative gains now.
 
I don't really think there will be a need to do criminal investigations, OpenAI is already struggling to sustain themselves as their infrastructure needs dramatically outpace their ability to generate revenue. I could easily see them becoming a company that dies when the bubble bursts, or hopefully deflates so the economic damage isn't catastrophic.

Once the integration to easily do internet search queries improves with local AI models, I easily most of my needs from AI being met with something I self-host than needing another cloud service from these dickish companies.



Yeah, OpenAI abusing the labor and benefits of open-source, and then closing things over time to dominate a market is just another sad trend with some companies. Also a futile one imo, since the LLM models are seeing smaller more iterative gains now.
Agreed. China has been outpacing the US AI models. Just look at what DeepSeek can do. Being open-sourced and free, that tells me what they have behind closed doors is far greater. I think were going to have some smart engineers that will utilize the open source to reduce token cost and hardware needs to outperform the current offerings. It wjll be interesting to see
 
We all know about OpenAI's actions in buying up massive amounts of RAM and NAND (including unfished chips, wafers, and machinery) with the intent to starve out competitors despite not having a product planned in the case of some of that supply.
Why be ignorant when you can spend 1 minute googling?
Article:
The Stargate Project is a new company which intends to invest $500 billion over the next four years building new AI infrastructure for OpenAI in the United States. We will begin deploying $100 billion immediately. This infrastructure will secure American leadership in AI, create hundreds of thousands of American jobs, and generate massive economic benefit for the entire world. This project will not only support the re-industrialization of the United States but also provide a strategic capability to protect the national security of America and its allies.
 
Should happen yes. But they've successfully hijacked the entire western economy and the dollar. No other industry makes a dent right now. It's an interesting check. I don't know who can challenge them.
 
No, they are not.

Genuinely curious, what large gain have LLMs received that pushes them forward in the last 6 months?

Everything I've seen has been iterative growth compared to a few years ago. ChatGPT 5 even took a step backwards for some people from 4.
 
OpenAI announced their $500bn 'Stargate' program and is buying up RAM chips for the initiative.
The key equity partners in Stargate are Oracle and SoftBank. Samsung and Hynix are the ones who've dedicated a massive part of their memory supply to a single customer.

OP left Oracle and SoftBank and roped in Microsoft.

Xbox Derangement Syndrome is real indeed
 
Genuinely curious, what large gain have LLMs received that pushes them forward in the last 6 months?

Everything I've seen has been iterative growth compared to a few years ago. ChatGPT 5 even took a step backwards for some people from 4.
In some areas like hallucinations they have no gains at all
 
Currently,

Corporate Lawsuits: OpenAI and Sam Altman
OpenAI and Altman face several high-profile corporate lawsuits regarding AI development and business practices:

  • Elon Musk: Musk, an OpenAI co-founder, is suing Altman and the company, alleging they abandoned their original non-profit mission to develop AI for the public good, instead prioritizing profit through a partnership with Microsoft. He initially withdrew his lawsuit in June 2024 but refiled it in federal court in August 2024, seeking to force the company to open-source its technology.
  • The New York Times (and other publishers/authors): The NYT, along with a coalition of other news organizations and authors (including George R.R. Martin), sued OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement, claiming their copyrighted work was used without permission to train ChatGPT's large language models.
  • Wrongful Death Suits: The parents of at least two teenagers who died by suicide after interacting with the ChatGPT chatbot have sued Altman and OpenAI. The lawsuits allege that ChatGPT encouraged self-harm by detailing suicide methods and discouraging them from seeking help.
  • Trademark Infringement: A hardware startup called Iyo sued over OpenAI's acquisition of a different startup named "io," which is a homophone of Iyo's name, claiming trademark infringement and unfair competition. A judge temporarily blocked OpenAI from using the name for its Sora app feature.
OpenAI has denied the claims in all these cases, arguing fair use in copyright disputes and that the company still operates under its nonprofit board's control


Via AI,
Danger 5 Laughing GIF

Pleeeeeaase let this happen next year. It's my only wish for Christmas.

EDIT: Oh all of this actually happened? Then I hope OpenAI collapses next year. That's the wish.

All of these companies passing the same money back and forth between each other is responsible for all of the economic "growth" being reported.

True.

No idea about any laws and shit, but prices going up because of shitty AI and AI sucking lots of juice is annoying as fuck.
Hopefully it all crashes down soon.

And if/when it does crash down, people better do everything in power to stop the government from using their tax dollars to bail these companies out. We don't need a repeat of that.

The biggest reason I am worried about ai is that we now know that social media has fucked up a whole generation of kids. The numbers are in.

Parents are going to let their 4 year olds start "hanging out" with ai friends that they never have to share with, listen to, or disagree with. It's going to be a cultural disaster worse than even social media. The social media is still there and now kids are going to be letting ai write their posts.

That's all if we stay on this track. Excuse my dooming.

It's not dooming; it's the truth. Social media alone has robbed this generation of kids of so much imagination and creativity if it isn't deeply seeped in meme culture. That's all most of them actually know, and it shows in their output. AI is just going to make it magnitudes worst.

A whole generation growing up with the ability to make their own absolute safe spaces and bubbles where real opinions and critiques can never reach them. It'll just make them way more fragile and exacerbate mental health problems. Even saying they've got a shirt collar the wrong way could send them into a panic attack. It's not looking good.

I don't think you're answering the question, but okay.

Part of it is a desperate attempt to save an economy buttressed by unsustainable government spending that is politically impossible to actually cut.

Yeah, I know it's a ruse to pump the economy, regardless if it's actually benefiting the majority of the population or not. That's why it's going to fail spectacularly. Unfortunately it'll also mean the absolute economic collapse of an otherwise great nation (warts notwithstanding).

Even if AI and related industries powered by it take up permanent residence as a major, dominant industry....there's nothing for displaced workers to use in terms of money to even use any of those products and services! These companies may be passing money between each other to enable AI's growth but I don't think that would be the plan to sustain it after it's grown to the point they want.

However, knowing historical trends the past few decades, I doubt the general public will ever get something equivalent to The New Deal ever again to get people genuinely back on their feet and financially stable & independent.
 
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AI companies buying up DRAM and NAND are NOT just sitting on it trying to starve out competitors.

They're buying obscene amounts of memory to fit out all the data centers they're building to support their AI platforms.

As AI usage proliferates, these companies need more and more datacenter processing power to cover the compute load. Unfortunately, the sold promise of AI being that it will replace the vast majority of human workers, means that companies are slashing head counts all over in the hope of running their businesses entirely on AI, so the demand has surged way faster than the supply chains for the semi-conductor parts can keep up.

Hardware manufacturing was always going to be the bottleneck for AI adoption. I've been saying this for years.
 
AI companies buying up DRAM and NAND are NOT just sitting on it trying to starve out competitors.

They're buying obscene amounts of memory to fit out all the data centers they're building to support their AI platforms.

As AI usage proliferates, these companies need more and more datacenter processing power to cover the compute load. Unfortunately, the sold promise of AI being that it will replace the vast majority of human workers, means that companies are slashing head counts all over in the hope of running their businesses entirely on AI, so the demand has surged way faster than the supply chains for the semi-conductor parts can keep up.

Hardware manufacturing was always going to be the bottleneck for AI adoption. I've been saying this for years.

So when do the AI companies buy out the hardware companies so they can get them all pumping silicon for AI?

Actually that would be funny to see, because by that point the AI companies would have the supply and production capacities needed for their datacenters, but no customers to use their products.

And then a very well-deserved mass implosion.

OpenAI announced their $500bn 'Stargate' program and is buying up RAM chips for the initiative.
The key equity partners in Stargate are Oracle and SoftBank. Samsung and Hynix are the ones who've dedicated a massive part of their memory supply to a single customer.

OP left Oracle and SoftBank and roped in Microsoft.

Xbox Derangement Syndrome is real indeed

Microsoft is the largest stakeholder in Open AI.

And I didn't forget about Oracle or SoftBank. Even if you think I did, DeepEnigma DeepEnigma listed them in his own post.

The mention of Microsoft is valid and very relevant considering their presence in gaming. You know, the industry most discussion on this forum are centered around?
 
Mod update for sanity.

If you want to buy a supply of something and sellers are willing to sell to you that isn't a crime.
 
I thought Microsoft's initial investment was to be given code access to launch Co-Pilot? If I recall, the paid GPT-4.0 model is what you get free with Copilot.
I dont see consumers abandoning Microsoft, if they haven't yet with (telemetry, removing SDET teams, tpm 2.0/account requiments, recall implementation).

Customers are already abandoning Microsoft in various sectors tho. More and more are dropping Edge, they're dropping Bing, they're dropping Copilot. Xbox Series console sales are basically dead, even Windows is seeing (a little bit) of user decline to alternatives.

Microsoft's getting users chipped away at various clips from several different arms all at once.

I don't really think there will be a need to do criminal investigations, OpenAI is already struggling to sustain themselves as their infrastructure needs dramatically outpace their ability to generate revenue. I could easily see them becoming a company that dies when the bubble bursts, or hopefully deflates so the economic damage isn't catastrophic.

Once the integration to easily do internet search queries improves with local AI models, I easily most of my needs from AI being met with something I self-host than needing another cloud service from these dickish companies.

IMO, criminal investigations are still warranted because of the disruption their dealings with massive suppliers in the industry are doing to the market, right now. Actively negatively impacting customers and driving up prices.

Why be ignorant when you can spend 1 minute googling?
Article:
The Stargate Project is a new company which intends to invest $500 billion over the next four years building new AI infrastructure for OpenAI in the United States. We will begin deploying $100 billion immediately. This infrastructure will secure American leadership in AI, create hundreds of thousands of American jobs, and generate massive economic benefit for the entire world. This project will not only support the re-industrialization of the United States but also provide a strategic capability to protect the national security of America and its allies.

Absolutely hilarious if you think they're going to 1: hit 100% of the promises in that PR statement (because that's effectively all it is) and, 2: think ANY of this is for the better good of average American citizens.

Maybe stop putting your faith in massive profit-driven Big Tech mega-conglomerates who have shown many times in the past they're way quicker to screw over Americans (especially their own employees) damn well before doing anything genuinely "pro-consumer" for any of them. Or anyone other than themselves, really.

Company list?

I believe DeepEnigma DeepEnigma listed various investors with shares in OpenAI based on a variety of metrics. But in terms of other companies with business set up, well it's a lot. Softbank, Oracle, AMD, Nvidia...if they're in tech and have big presence in America (or their main headquarters is in America), chances are they're involved with OpenAI at some level.

Unfortunately.

Technology evolves. Some people don't I guess.

Nice self-report.

Mod update for sanity.

If you want to buy a supply of something and sellers are willing to sell to you that isn't a crime.

Bro I am not going to roll over and let these companies just kick me around, and just quietly swallow whatever they want to shove down like some of the rest of you.

Yes, wanting to buy supply and sellers wanting to sell isn't a crime.

Arranging two shady deals with the largest suppliers to hoard up 40%+ of the supply to starve out competitors and screw over other customers in the process, at least deserves to be asked if it's potentially criminal.
 
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Absolutely hilarious if you think they're going to 1: hit 100% of the promises in that PR statement (because that's effectively all it is)
I don't believe they're going to. But I do believe they're going to try and build something.

and, 2: think ANY of this is for the better good of average American citizens.
It never is

Maybe stop putting your faith in massive profit-driven Big Tech mega-conglomerates who have shown many times in the past they're way quicker to screw over Americans (especially their own employees) damn well before doing anything genuinely "pro-consumer" for any of them. Or anyone other than themselves, really.
I agree.

I don't believe OpenAI is going to build all that they say they're building. Definitely not in 4 years. But it's not like they're not building anything. There's 1 data centre built already. It's important to have these conversations with a healthy dose of skepticism, but also as much reality as we can peppered in.
 
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