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[AirBrian]

I am on the verge of purchasing a D-SLR and I would like to hear your experiences with the D70, 10D, and 20D. I’ve read many reviews, know about the most of the differences, and have spent several hours in-store testing each camera. However, there is no substitute for first-hand ownership experience. As of now, I am leaning towards the D70 with the 20D closely behind and the 10D rounding up third. I understand that the 20D is arguably the better camera of the three; however it is significantly more expensive.

So for you D-SLR owners (and experts), what camera do you have and how do you like it? Would you buy it again? How does it hold up to day-to-day extended use?

And related to the D70: what features do you like/dislike the best? What features do you wish it had? I’ve been told you cannot attach an external power pack to the D70; do you keep an extra set of batteries on hand? Is there even a need for that?

The more information the better, and I’ve already searched/read the previous (limited amount of) GAF D-SLR discussions.

And for reference:

20D vs. D70:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page25.asp

20D vs. 10D:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page22.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page23.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page24.asp

 

[Timbuktu]

20D is outside by budget and so I don't have much experience with it, but I can definitely recommend the D70. It offers a lot for the price. My favorite part of the D70 experience is that it handles just as I expect it to moving from film SLRs. The continuous shooting is also brilliant for sports. The six preset modes that it has comes in handy when you need to shoot something quick or if someone else wants to use your camera. Battery-wise, I don't feel the need of an external powerpack. Each battery is enough for a few hundred shots at least. I just came back from a week's trip to Berlin, I had two battery with me and I didn't even need to use the second one.

Things that I wish the D70 had are more AF areas and for it to remember my settings.

 

[AirBrian]

Thanks for the impressions, Timbuktu. What lense(s) do you use? Also, do you have a need for (or feel limited by the lack of) a 100 ISO setting?

EDIT: Have any pics you want to share?

 

[AirBrian]

Also, does anyone heard about when the next Nikon D-SLR camera is coming out? The D100 came out in 2002, can we expect the same time between the D70 and the next iteration?

 

[SteveMeister]

My wife has a D70. Sweet, sweet camera. The main reason we got it over a competitor is because she already had a bunch of Nikon lenses that we could use on it. But Canon's direct competitor has slightly higher resolution and is slightly faster in some things. A guy here at work got the Canon one (can't remember the model).

So if you don't already have a collection of lenses, I'd say try both of them out if you can, and get the one that suits you best.

 

[AirBrian]

My wife has a D70. Sweet, sweet camera. The main reason we got it over a competitor is because she already had a bunch of Nikon lenses that we could use on it. But Canon's direct competitor has slightly higher resolution and is slightly faster in some things. A guy here at work got the Canon one (can't remember the model).

So if you don't already have a collection of lenses, I'd say try both of them out if you can, and get the one that suits you best.

I don't have any newer lenses. I have an old Minolta X-300 with a couple of cheap lenses, but I really don't plan on using them for the D-SLR. I know there are more lenses available with the Canon, but I don't have a need for extensive lenses so it's a moot point.

Basically, I'm just looking for impressions from people who own the cameras and not just the retail employees and my limited in-store exposure playing around with them. And then it boils down to is the extra $500 for a 20D worth it for 2 more mega-pixels and a 100 ISO option. I like the Nikon color spectrum better than Canon's, but of course the Canon is sharper. Decisions...

 

[Timbuktu]

Like SteveMeister's wife, I've always used Nikon lenses, so it was a no brainer really, but I've never compared it to 20D, only 300D. If it is $500 difference, go for the 20D if you really need the extra resolution, better build and features, but at the moment I find that D70 satisfy my needs. I always think that the difference between camera bodies are far less noticeable than the difference between lenses. Of course, if you go for a D70, that $500 can go towards a lense.

 

[SickBoy]

I'd think the next D-series camera is a ways away...

I've shot a lot with a digital Rebel (belonged to work, not my personal camera), I wouldn't recommend it if you're already looking at the superior models.

I've been kicking tires on the Pentax *ist DS (my trove of Pentax lenses being the reason), and I'm not sure if it's sales-talk or fact, but I've been told more than once that it's technically about on par with the D70 (and cheaper, to boot).

But then you get into issues like lens availability (although you have a great "back catalog" with the Pentax) and software... flash quality and mediocre RAW conversion software seem to be the big complaints about it.

It might be worth a look, but out of the cameras you listed, I'd suggest the Nikon. But I think most DSLRS (even the "lowly" D-Rebel) offer some pretty exceptional results.

 

[Shogmaster]

The Nikon D70 has the best flash sync in class (1/500), while 20D is only 1/250. I'd rather have the better flash sync of the D70 than the higher res of the 20D.

But this is all assuming that you have no previous Nikon or Canon lenses and is starting fresh. If you have legacy lenses, you obviously go with what you already have.

 

[nitewulf]

going by specs, 20D is faster, has better ISO sensitivity. i think it's better than the D70, but you cant really go wrong with any of the three.

 

[chinch]

i have had the 10d for about 2 yrs now. i don't know how i used lesser "digital" cameras... they're unusable now. LOL.

if you have no lenses & budget is a non-issue then the 20d is the best camera. it also accepts EF-S lenses which compensate for the 1.6x zoom these 3 cameras have which prohibit wide-angle photography.

if you have several canon EF lenses and a budget find a discounted 10d. if $$$ is reallly an issue and/or the 10d/20d is overkill (for 95% of buyers it is) then get the digital rebel and the kit lens which offers a STEAL of a camera with a nice walk-around lens (will crush any nonSLR digicam).

get the Nikon if you have several nikon lenses. these are a step behind for someone without an investment in glass looking to go digital. not a knock of them, cause they're quite good too. all 4 listed here are great.

 

[AirBrian]

Thanks for the advice, guys.

I'd think the next D-series camera is a ways away...

I've shot a lot with a digital Rebel (belonged to work, not my personal camera), I wouldn't recommend it if you're already looking at the superior models.

I've been kicking tires on the Pentax *ist DS (my trove of Pentax lenses being the reason), and I'm not sure if it's sales-talk or fact, but I've been told more than once that it's technically about on par with the D70 (and cheaper, to boot).

But then you get into issues like lens availability (although you have a great "back catalog" with the Pentax) and software... flash quality and mediocre RAW conversion software seem to be the big complaints about it.

It might be worth a look, but out of the cameras you listed, I'd suggest the Nikon. But I think most DSLRS (even the "lowly" D-Rebel) offer some pretty exceptional results.

Yeah, one of the guys at Wolf was talking about the Pentax. He didn't say it was better, only that it was comparable for the price.

 

[chinch]

honestly you'd be a fool to buy anything but the canon or nikon. dSLR

i think 98% of "new" buyers are best served wtih the digital rebel kit at $750-ish bucks it's almost disposable. you can spend $$$ on good lenses which Canon has plenty of.

the next "jump" in SLR improvments over these models comes with a larger sensor offering a smaller (1.3x) magnifier, unless you have specific deficienciees of these models (which 98% of the buyers won't encounter).

 

[AirBrian]

i have had the 10d for about 2 yrs now. i don't know how i used lesser "digital" cameras... they're unusable now. LOL.

I (kinda) know how you feel. I bought the Sony P-1 when digicams first went mainstream and my wife's $150 2.1MP U-30 takes much better pictures than my $700 3.3MP P-1. :lol :lol

 

[nitewulf]

i'm planning on getting the 20D eventually, as my entry DSLR. i'll keep my G5 though, i love that thing.

 

[tetsuoxb]

Id go for the 20D.

It isnt just the ISO100 mode and 2 extra megapixels... the camera is leaps and bounds ahead of the D10. Im going to quote a good friend who has had both cameras because I think his comments are relevant.

Aside from the obvious - 8.2 megapixels, 5 fps, a huge buffer, 9 AF points - a few other properties of the Canon EOS 20D are working to convince me that this was a worthwhile purchase, a true successor to my 10D, not just a move to bring feature parity between Miggy and I. Among others: A B&W mode, 1/8000 shutter speed, no more wussy mirror sound, and instant on.

You can find his webpage here:

http://www.tech9.net/rml/

 

[SickBoy]

honestly you'd be a fool to buy anything but the canon or nikon. dSLR

This attitude is more than a bit narrowminded. Almost all the DSLRs on the market are quality equipment. The key advantage to Canon and Nikon are that they're the market leaders and are doing well in those roles.

The fact is, it's hard to make a bad choice with most of the cameras on the market, from Canon to Nikon to Pentax to Minolta. I'm sure the Olympus equipment is solid too, though I haven't been looking at it much (new mount=scary to me)

I think Canon's and Nikon's equipment is great, you can't go wrong with them and clearly their market position is a plus, but that's no reason to be dismissive of the other cameras on the market.

 

[AirBrian]

Id go for the 20D.

It isnt just the ISO100 mode and 2 extra megapixels... the camera is leaps and bounds ahead of the D10. Im going to quote a good friend who has had both cameras because I think his comments are relevant.



You can find his webpage here:

http://www.tech9.net/rml/

No doubt the 20D is much better than the 10D, but it's also ~2X the price after you buy a lense for the 20D.

The 10D is now officially out. It's a great camera, but the D70 and 20D just offer more for my needs. So it's now between the D70 and 20D, and I'm leaning towards the D70 and maybe an extra lense since I don't have any legacy lenses.

 

[SickBoy]

If you're going to be shooting in a variety of lighting conditions, don't discount the idea of an external flash unit (on its own or in addition to a lens) either. The built-in flashes on SLRs these days are surprisingly powerful, but you're going to get better control over your results using a dedicated flash.

 

[AirBrian]

If you're going to be shooting in a variety of lighting conditions, don't discount the idea of an external flash unit (on its own or in addition to a lens) either. The built-in flashes on SLRs these days are surprisingly powerful, but you're going to get better control over your results using a dedicated flash.

Definitely. An external flash is also on the initial order list. The better flash synch is something else that has me leaning towards the D70.

EDIT: And today, Nikon changed the rebate to $200 if you buy the D70 outfit (body + 18-70mm lense).

 

[chinch]

you should be factoring in lenses more than the "body" at this point. it seems your budget reduces your choices to the entry level D70 or digital rebel.

both are gonna be disposable in a few years, whereas your lenses will last a long, long time. Also good lenses can cost about as much as these bodies... buying one nice lens is more useful than 3 crummy ones

the kit lenses are servicable but don't offer USM or build quality to match a $1000 camera. they're for "point and shooter" and $50 lenses that allow the masses to take pictures right out of the box. Finally the 70 doesn't take a vert grip if that matters with a premium flash.

That said if your heart is set on the D70 than get it and don't look back for a while

 

[nitewulf]

20D isnt really in the same class IMO, the price takes it a notch higher. thats why i am confused by your choices, digi rebel, d70 and 10D could be compared and contrasted because of the similar price range. but 20D is hell of a lot more expensive.

 

[AirBrian]

you should be factoring in lenses more than the "body" at this point. it seems your budget reduces your choices to the entry level D70 or digital rebel.

both are gonna be disposable in a few years, whereas your lenses will last a long, long time. Also good lenses can cost about as much as these bodies... buying one nice lens is more useful than 3 crummy ones

the kit lenses are servicable but don't offer USM or build quality to match a $1000 camera. they're for "point and shooter" and $50 lenses that allow the masses to take pictures right out of the box. Finally the 70 doesn't take a vert grip if that matters with a premium flash.

That said if your heart is set on the D70 than get it and don't look back for a while

Good point. Yep, I think I'm going with the D70 and putting the extra money into nice lenses and basic accessories (flash, batteries, memory cards, bag, etc.). I really don't mind spending the extra $500 for the 20D if I thought it was worth it, however at this point the D70 is my balance point. I was 67% sure a week ago that the D70 was the choice, but after this thread and talking to some more people (my local Wolf knows me by name now :lol ), I'm now 90% sure.

20D isnt really in the same class IMO, the price takes it a notch higher. thats why i am confused by your choices, digi rebel, d70 and 10D could be compared and contrasted because of the similar price range. but 20D is hell of a lot more expensive.

Oh I know. That's why I was asking for D70 impressions and what more the owners wanted. The 20D is definitely the better camera; I just wanted some first-hand impressions from owners of the three.

 

[tetsuoxb]

One more point to consider:

What will make you happier - having a mid-range DSLR with a nice lens and flash, or having a high-end DSLR with a lower quality lens and flash?

If you can stand having a cheaper lens for a while, buy the D20. You know it is the better camera, and you can always buy lenses later.

 

[SickBoy]

I have a last couple pieces of (mostly common sense -- but it never hurts to say) advice. There's been some good technical advice in this thread, and tetsuo raises an interesting question here at the end.

#1) ASK USERS: Get on the forums at dpreview or anywhere else and ask people who have your equipment what lenses they're using and how they feel about the results. Higher series lenses are great, but you pay for them... (BTW, maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think you should trust in the folks who love their prime lenses... whether they're commenting on zoom lenses or not). But get value for your money. Don't buy a lens 'cause it's a fancy-series lens.

#2) DON'T BE AFRAID: You're spending a lot of money. But honestly, in the DSLR market today, I think it's hard to go wrong. Even the Digital Rebel (the cheapest body out there) is a great tool to use...

#3) THE CLICHE: Both points lead me into the final comment which is about as trite as they get: It's not the equipment, it's the photographer that makes the picture. I say that even if you're using "crap" equipment (at this level, I don't know how "crap" "crap" equipment really is), you're going to get good results if you're capable). So while the technical concerns and quality concerns are great, I think things are going to work.

 

[AirBrian]

Thanks, tetsuoxb and SickBoy for the final words of advice.

I have a last couple pieces of (mostly common sense -- but it never hurts to say) advice. There's been some good technical advice in this thread, and tetsuo raises an interesting question here at the end.

#1) ASK USERS: Get on the forums at dpreview or anywhere else and ask people who have your equipment what lenses they're using and how they feel about the results. Higher series lenses are great, but you pay for them... (BTW, maybe I'm old fashioned, but I think you should trust in the folks who love their prime lenses... whether they're commenting on zoom lenses or not). But get value for your money. Don't buy a lens 'cause it's a fancy-series lens.

#2) DON'T BE AFRAID: You're spending a lot of money. But honestly, in the DSLR market today, I think it's hard to go wrong. Even the Digital Rebel (the cheapest body out there) is a great tool to use...

#3) THE CLICHE: Both points lead me into the final comment which is about as trite as they get: It's not the equipment, it's the photographer that makes the picture. I say that even if you're using "crap" equipment (at this level, I don't know how "crap" "crap" equipment really is), you're going to get good results if you're capable). So while the technical concerns and quality concerns are great, I think things are going to work.

I'll certainly check out the dpreview forums. Thanks. Yeah, even though one DSLR has more advantages than the other, they are all solid equipment that will provide plenty of tools.

So I ended up buying the D70 from Wolf Camera online. No tax + free shipping + $200 MIB = $1099 for the D70 and 18-70mm lense. It should arrive on Monday.

 

[Zelda-Bitch]

My girlfriend is a photographer and she lives by the D70. She would take one over a canon any day of the week. Like some others have already suggested, get a D70 and invest the extra cash into lenses and such. Trust me, you'll love it. It's the closest thing you'll get to a regular SLR with all the benefits of a digital.

 

[Zelda-Bitch]

Thanks, tetsuoxb and SickBoy for the final words of advice.

I'll certainly check out the dpreview forums. Thanks. Yeah, even though one DSLR has more advantages than the other, they are all solid equipment that will provide plenty of tools.

So I ended up buying the D70 from Wolf Camera online. No tax + free shipping + $200 MIB = $1099 for the D70 and 18-70mm lense. It should arrive on Monday.

Wow! Thats an excellent price for all that gear! It's usually closer to $1500.

 

[Timbuktu]

Thanks, tetsuoxb and SickBoy for the final words of advice.

I'll certainly check out the dpreview forums. Thanks. Yeah, even though one DSLR has more advantages than the other, they are all solid equipment that will provide plenty of tools.

So I ended up buying the D70 from Wolf Camera online. No tax + free shipping + $200 MIB = $1099 for the D70 and 18-70mm lense. It should arrive on Monday.

Congrats AirBrian, hope you like it as much as I like mine.

 

[chinch]

FWIW reliable places have the digital rebel for under $800 w/ kit lens.

when comparing prices into this, at $1100 the d70 is no bargain