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[ryutaro's mama]

And, again, that's not what he was referring to when he made his statements. We're talking about two seperate issues being conflated.

And yet, the treatment of Black Americans by law enforcement is, and has been, a crucial component to the general mistrust and barrier of communication that exists.

And was ironically the reason for the protest that unfortunately was met by violence that propelled this chief into the national spotlight.

You can't just igore that issue in the interest of highlighting the things he covered.

 

[Infinite]

No. That is not what the statistics say.

70%+ are NOT at home, and not living in the house. Your graph is for those that ARE living in the house.

Those statistics are not racist propaganda. They are statistics that exist. They exist for various reasons, but they are real.

Are you blind?

 

[aliengmr]

Odd how they always bring up " where are the black fathers" racist talking point

A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one's family, contributed to the erosion of black families - a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods - parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pick-up and building code enforcement - all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continue to haunt us.

Spoiler

President Obama.

This fundamentally changed the way I understood the problem

Police can't fix that problem and the problems people want addressed aren't simple and interwoven with racial inequality in general.

 

[Plinko]

But are you aware of what he said? He said
“Seventy percent of the African American community is being raised by single women, let’s give it to the cops to solve that as well”

But is wrong. 70% of black children are born out of wedlock and 67% are raised in single parent households. This however doesn't translate into "the African American community are being raised by single women" as black fathers whether they are married to their baby's mommas or not can still be apart of their children's lives and they are more than any other racial group.

I read the Q&A, yes. I know he is wrong with that exact statistic. However, as others have stated in this thread, it is a problem throughout the entire country. It should be discussed in every aspect.

Since the legal system is harsher toward the black community, this problem exists. Again, it needs to be discussed.

 

[Saint Gregory]

No. That is not what the statistics say.

70%+ are NOT at home, and not living in the house. Your graph is for those that ARE living in the house.

Those statistics are not racist propaganda. They are statistics that exist. They exist for various reasons, but they are real.

Uh... the fine print on that graph clearly says it tracked both in and out of home dads.

 

[MHWilliams]

People need to keep in mind that these quotes are him at a press conference responding to questions asked by the press. If he's talking about all these systemic issues the police deal with instead of talking solely about excessive police violence, that's because a reporter is asking him about "society's problems that are dumped onto police."

For clarification, this was the first question asked at the press conference:

“I just want to know how you are doing. As you characterize on-air and in reports, law enforcement, the brotherhood, sisterhood. What goes through your mind, chief, when you put your head your on your pillow at night and process this and what is happening in this department?

Most of the statements in the opening were an answer he brought up to that question.

After watching it in the context of the question, I read it as a public policy criticism, not a personal or community criticism. He grouped it with mental health funding, rehab addiction funding, schools failing and he followed it by saying other parts of democracy need to step up. Later he goes into more detail about how legislators need to "do their job." He was criticizing public officials, not the public. I don't think he was criticizing the black community, but criticizing the failings of the government that have consequences for the black community.

I can certainly see it that way.

 

[Infinite]

I read the Q&A, yes. I know he is wrong with that exact statistic. However, as others have stated in this thread, it is a problem throughout the entire country. It should be discussed in every aspect.

I agree however making this into a black issue amounts to nothing more than racist propaganda. Not that you're doing this

 

[captive]

Failing schools? How is society expecting cops to fix failing schools? Is that referring to officers placed in schools?

im presume he's speaking of truancy and drop outs. If a kid has dropped out, i would bet that they are a very high percentage to be involved in some sort of illegal activity. Of course there are always the situations where a kid drops out to get a job to support the family...


I think he's right to a certain extent, maybe not having cops fixing these issues per se, but cops are the ones that have to deal with a lot of those issues.

 

[JP_]

I don't read it that way. The single mothers are doing their jobs. He's obviously putting the burden on black men.

This was my read as well, hence my previous posts.

After watching it in the context of the question, I read it as a public policy criticism, not a personal or community criticism. He grouped it with mental health funding, rehab addiction funding, schools failing and he followed it by saying other parts of democracy need to step up -- he didn't say black mothers or fathers need to step up, he said other parts of government need to step up. Later he goes into more detail about how legislators need to "do their job." He was criticizing public officials, not the public. I don't think he was criticizing the black community, but criticizing the failings of the government that have consequences for the black community.

 

[Slayven]

Spoiler

President Obama.

This fundamentally changed the way I understood the problem

Police can't fix that problem and the problems people want addressed aren't simple and interwoven with racial inequality in general.

tamir race was a kid playing and the dude shot last week had his kid in the backseat.

 

[lenovox1]

Bad questions don't justify bad answers.

Which also doesn't justify attaching a context to an answer after one has pulled it completely out of context.

Unless you don't think that cops are policing issues that they shouldn't be policing or putting people in jail that they shouldn't have any involvment with in the first place and that more good, capable people should become cops.

 

[trembli0s]

If you're black you're more likely to have your father in your life than if you're white.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=753269

Stop repeating racist propaganda.

Reading the thread doesn't exactly bear out that study, which seems somewhat shoddy.

Are there numbers for young black males in jail as to whether they had fathers at home? That would seem to be more of a direct tie, imo.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

If you're black you're more likely to have your father in your life than if you're white.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=753269

Stop repeating racist propaganda.

 

[excelsiorlef]

No. That is not what the statistics say.

70%+ are NOT at home, and not living in the house. Your graph is for those that ARE living in the house.

Those statistics are not racist propaganda. They are statistics that exist. They exist for various reasons, but they are real.

Had you clicked the linked thread

The Pew Research Center, which has tracked this data for years, consistently finds no big differences between white and black fathers. Gretchen Livingston, one of the senior researchers studying family life at Pew, wasn’t at all surprised by the new CDC data. “Blacks look a lot like everyone else,” she pointed out.

Although black fathers are more likely to live separately from their children — the statistic that’s usually trotted out to prove the parenting “crisis” — many of them remain just as involved in their kids’ lives. Pew estimates that 67 percent of black dads who don’t live with their kids see them at least once a month, compared to 59 percent of white dads and just 32 percent of Hispanic dads.

And there’s compelling evidence that number of black dads living apart from their kids stems from structural systems of inequality and poverty, not the unfounded assumption that African-American men somehow place less value on parenting. Equal numbers of black dads and white dads tend to agree that it’s important to be a father who provides emotional support, discipline, and moral guidance. There’s one area of divergence in the way the two groups approach their parental responsibilities: Black dads are even more likely to think it’s important to financially provide for their children

Oooops

 

[Jonm1010]

I mean I kinda could see where he is coming from if he was a bit more introspective of the situation.

It is being left up to the cops when states continually cut education funding, create segregating laws that produce poorer and poorer communities, cut mental healthcare that leaves people on the streets with debilitating conditions, continually chase republican policies that create further income inequality, enact ridiculous things like the war on drugs, cut funding and ask the police to prey on the poor communities for funding, allow a rampant gun culture to take root and continually endanger civilians with reckless gun laws(or lack thereof).

And I do think that sort of stuff would go a long way helping things. With that said, the police need to get their own fucking house in order as well. Apparently Dallas is much better then many other places but it still is clearly far from ideal. We still have for profit prisons, systemic racism, broken window issues and funding issues that all are on their end.

 

[trembli0s]

Had you clicked the linked thread



Oooops

Once a month? That's pretty shit to be honest. What kind of parenting are you able to imprint on one day?

 

[GrizzleBoy]

My favourite part is where he tells people protesting the violent murders of innocent people by his organisation, to stop protesting murders of innocent people and join his organisation that has been violently murdering innocent people.

It's god tier logic.

Man, can you imagine how different life could have been if the Jews knew all they had to do was just join the Nazis and all the hatred, prejudice and killing would have just stopped right there and then.

Damn.

 

[Mully]

Good points made, but his solution contradicts his complaints. If you think the cops are overwhelmed by societal problems, why is your solution to hire more cops, instead of fixing the problems themselves ?

Maybe he's trying to mirror an LAPD pilot program where police officers are given specific tasks in high risk areas like Skid Row?

It's a very small pilot program at the moment, but rather than having police officers handle emotionally distressed people the traditional way, police officers who are specifically trained to handle these people are called in.

Another example of what's going on in the program is that there are now police officers patrolling Skid Row specifically for community outreach. These officers would be asked to rarely make arrests, and in place, they'd simply go around the neighborhood meeting and greeting people in the area.

With that said, how would most cities and counties find this massive increase in their police force? A majority of US cities are cash strapped and had to make massive cuts to their police force and mental health services in recent years.

 

[Infinite]

Once a month? That's pretty shit to be honest. What kind of parenting are you able to imprint on one day?

That's a different discussion and it says "at least"

 

[excelsiorlef]

Once a month? That's pretty shit to be honest. What kind of parenting are you able to imprint on one day?

It's the highest engagement of any racial category.

Which also doesn't justify attaching a context to an answer after one has pulled it completely out of context.

Unless you don't think that cops are policing issues that they shouldn't be policing or putting people in jail that they shouldn't have any involvment with in the first place and that more good, capable people should become cops.

I appreciate how you translated black protestors should stop being part of the problem, get off the protest line and become cops to simply we need more good people.

 

[JP_]

Once a month? That's pretty shit to be honest. What kind of parenting are you able to imprint on one day?

...it's "at least" a day and the point is that black fathers are at least as good as white/hispanic fathers in terms of being a part of their child's upbringing.

 

[DrForester]

Sure I'm late to say this, but I don't see people asking cops to solve these things. I'm seeing people ask cops to stop pulling their gun out every time they get pulled over for a traffic stop. They're asking cops to do their jobs competently.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

That's a different discussion.

Better THAT discussion than "please stop shooting us" apparently..

 

[tfur]

Are you blind?

Uh... the fine print on that graph clearly says it tracked both in and out of home dads.

I can see. But that chart does not really address the 70% of single family homes.

It says if the father is home, things are good. If the father is not home, things are not so good. If 70% are not in the home, then things are mostly not good, since most fathers are not there.

 

[Slayven]

Sure I'm late to say this, but I don't see people asking cops to solve these things. I'm seeing people ask cops to stop pulling their gun out every time they get pulled over for a traffic stop. They're asking cops to do their jobs competently.

hell if they did that they would have less work and stress

 

[MogCakes]

My favourite part is where he tells people protesting the violent murders of innocent people by his organisation to stop protesting and join his organisation that has been violently murdering innocent people.

He's not in charge of the entire US police force, and he has made reforms since coming into power to DPD that have proven very effective in de-escalation. He seems characteristically different from other PD chiefs.

 

[LizardKing]

We could start by treating drugs as a health issue and not a criminal issue.

Just that one change alone would rock the foundations of the CJ system in a huge and positive way.

 

[Lathentar]

If you're black you're more likely to have your father in your life than if you're white.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=753269

Stop repeating racist propaganda.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just comparing percentages for the same living situation.

Father Living with Kids and Father Not Living With Kids rows can't be added together to get an overall percentage of that race's father doing stuff if I'm reading this right. If you're black, you're just as likely to have a father in your life as a white kid whose dad is in the same situation.

 

[Guevara]

If you're black you're more likely to have your father in your life than if you're white.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthr... likely to read to their children daily, etc.

 

[Jonm1010]

My favourite part is where he tells people protesting the violent murders of innocent people by his organisation, to stop protesting murders of innocent people and join his organisation that has been violently murdering innocent people.

It's god tier logic.

Man, can you imagine how different life could have been if the Jews knew all they had to do was just join the Nazis and all the hatred, prejudice and killing would have just stopped right there and then.

Damn.

And let's be honest, he doesn't really mean that.

Let's play along for instance, let's say 50-60 black people from BLM signed up for the police force. Some street cops, some for positions of authority with the aim of transforming institution from the inside out. He knows good and goddamn well he wouldn't gently stand aside or keep an open mind to changing policy and tactics. He would fight tooth and nail and only be satisfied if everyone just shut up and acclimated to the poisoned system and culture.

 

[Mortemis]

I see the point that he's making, police can't fix every problem there is in society and the majority of issues he brings up goes back to legislative fixes rather than police conduct. Maybe if we chill on the war on drugs bullshit or actually fund schools we wouldn't be seeing stats like the ones he pointed out.

Still, reading the sentence he made about joining the force rather than protesting makes it seem like he doesn't get what the protests are about. We don't want cops getting trigger happy more against us, don't want them to use an unneeded amount of force, don't want to be pulled over or stopped for the smallest suspicions, we just wanna be treated the same as they'd treat white people. I'm not saying that the Dallas PD is completely ignoring these issues, reading up on it this police chief doesn't seem corrupt when it comes to police misconduct. But when he's making statements like these, he's not getting the protests.

And let's be honest, he doesn't really mean that.

Let's play along for instance, let's say 50-60 black people from BLM signed up for the police force. Some street cops, some for positions of authority with the aim of transforming institution from the inside out. He knows good and goddamn well he wouldn't gently stand aside or keep an open mind to changing policy and tactics. He would fight tooth and nail and only be satisfied if everyone just shut up and acclimated to the poisoned system and culture.

Exactly, and unless he's willing to fire the entire force and replace them with protestors, how would the prevailing policies and thoughts be gone?

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I would LOVE for someone to take him up on his word, leave the protest line, "fill out an application" and join the ranks. Then, just like the journalist that joined the department of corrections, document exactly what the culture is like within the police department, banter and what is said, how certain citizens are viewed, etc.

Then in a year, tell this chief all about the "change" they were able to make to a far reaching, well oiled machine that is US Law Enforcement.

 

[TheCochese]

My favourite part is where he tells people protesting the violent murders of innocent people by his organisation, to stop protesting murders of innocent people and join his organisation that has been violently murdering innocent people.

It's god tier logic.

Man, can you imagine how different life could have been if the Jews knew all they had to do was just join the Nazis and all the hatred, prejudice and killing would have just stopped right there and then.

Damn.

Hang on a tick here. What's the amount of incidents that THIS department has had while HE was in charge? All I have read about the dude is that he's doing what he can to kick bad cops out, lift up good cops, and do the things one would normally expect a good police officer would do. They were protesting events in Louisiana, and Minnesota, among the general feeling that the police force treats minorities too violently.

What did he do wrong, outside of be clumsy in his answer in a press conference?

 

[Kin5290]

My favourite part is where he tells people protesting the violent murders of innocent people by his organisation to stop protesting and join his organisation that has been violently murdering innocent people.

Man, can you imagine how different life could have been if the Jews knew all they had to do was just join the Nazis and all the hatred, prejudice and killing would have just stopped right there and then.

Damn.

Well, congrats. Not only did you completely miss the point, you went full Godwin.

I mean, never mind that he based his response on his own experiences where he joined the police to address problems in his own community. And that the police can have more nuanced interactions with the community if they actually know and understand the communities that they police. But no, Nazis!

 

[NobleGundam]

Oh boy. I think his intentions here were good but....some of those sentences...

Yeesh...

 

[Ovid]

So after watching the video and seeing the context, I still agree with what he's saying.

Yes, that statistic was incorrect but he's talking about policy. The police are asked to solve policy issues when they should be enforcing the laws put in place by policymakers. I get it.

Also, the wording of the article is weird. I'd like to know the exact question he was asked with regards to black men. The article makes it sound like his response was a generalization, although, I think he was referring to the unproductive citizens of the community since he mentions line "part of the problem".

The police chief seems to have been though a lot as well. Yesterday I learned his son was killed in a police shootout. Also, his brother was killed by drug dealers. He had some good talking points on CNN State of the Union too. Some I agreed with, some I didn't.

 

[Infinite]

I can see. But that chart does not really address the 70% of single family homes.

It says if the father is home, things are good. If the father is not home, things are not so good. If 70% are not in the home, then things are mostly not good, since most fathers are not there.

It says that black fathers have the highest engangement with their children than any other racial group whether they live in the home with them or not. The problem here is that the popular narrative among racists is to portray black men as absentee dads and thus are responsible for all sorts of issues plaguing the black community when black fathers are in fact more involved with their children than any other race

 

[Mr. X]

That chart lacks the percentage of fathers living and not living at home.

I'm saying this as someone that doesn't feel single parent homes is the reason for whatever they blame it for.

 

[n00bsauce87]

“Every societal failure, we put it off on the cops to solve” said Brown. He listed mental health, drug addiction, loose dogs, failing schools as problems the public expects ‘cops to solve.’

When asked what advice he would give black men, Chief Brown said, “Become a part of the solution, serve your community. ... We’ll put you in your neighborhood – we will help you resolve some of the problems you are protesting about.”

So cops can't solve these problems, but you'll hire black men to be cops to solve the same issues YOU just said the public shouldn't expect you to solve.

How does that work?

You have to make a choice. All or nothing. And if nothing, stop being a cop. If being a civil servant is too much, then stop wearing the badge.

Specifically on the mental health issue that he brought up. People genually call the cops to help aid relatives and friends who are having a spur of the moment mental health moment and there are cases where the only viable option is to kill them on the spot.

Half of People Killed by Police Have a Disability: Report

People with mental illness 16 times more likely to be killed by police

So fuck you police chief. Fuck you for being right that maybe officers aren't being equipped at doing their jobs (which falls on you for being the top cop of the city, in terms of Dallas).

And people are still confused on why some people don't trust them.

 

[Cake Boss]

When asked what advice he would give black men, Chief Brown said, “Become a part of the solution, serve your community. Don’t be a part of the problem…we’re hiring. Get off that protest line and put an application in. We’ll put you in your neighborhood – we will help you resolve some of the problems you are protesting about.”

Wut mate.

Yeah there is your fucking problem right there. Generalizing everyone who's protesting and anyone who has issues with law enforcement has to be just unemployed lazy young people, who have nothing else better to do than protest right? and the issues that they are raising wouldn't be there if they only just had a job right?

And you say there is no problem. There is a pure example of the police generalizing an entire population under one profile.

 

[Afrikan]

To be clear, he's not just passing the buck to avoid having to improve his police department. He's been making progress reforming since he took up the post.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/albertsamaha/dallas-police-numbers?utm_term=.wnV5zYEazB#.vxGREPNeEW

Brown has fired more than 70 Dallas cops since taking office. But he doesn’t just fire bad cops, he also announces the firings — and the reasons for them — on social media. It’s a bold sort of transparency for which, again, he’s been criticized by police groups. Shortly after taking office, Brown fired a police officer who had kicked and maced a handcuffed suspect. But he not only fired the cop, he publicly praised the officer who turned that cop in, an implicit acknowledgment and criticism of the notorious Blue Wall. “One of the things that I really want to express about Officer Upshaw’s action is that we should not as a department ostracize him in any way. We should applaud him coming forward, him intervening,” Brown said.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ing-those-things-could-now-be-more-difficult/

Dallas PD still has work to do, but they trying. Progress is being made. It's never as quick as is wanted or needed, but it's still worth acknowledging. And if you look at the protest in Dallas vs the protest in Baton Rouge, it's night and day. Dallas had zero riot gear, no tear gas, etc -- they didn't bring in heavy equipment. They didn't surround protesters or drag anybody away. They didn't point guns at anybody or shout orders on a loud speaker. They blocked off streets for the protestors.



He's essentially saying "Be the change you want to see."

interesting.

and the Unions have tried to get him fired/to resign huh?

Over here in the San Francisco, I haven't heard of someone on that level publicly announce firings and the reasons for the firing on social media... then to push appreciation for another officer who did the right thing by coming forward.

How is it yall's cities/county? do you have Police that are run like this. (folks who live in the States)

 

[Price Dalton]

If you're black you're more likely to have your father in your life than if you're white.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=753269

Stop repeating racist propaganda.

Isn't that saying that among dads who don't live in the home, black fathers see their kids more often white or hispanic fathers?

It looks like the overall rate of father absence is still higher in black households, unfortunately: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr071.pdf

So while absent black dads are better dads than absent white and hispanic dads, there may still be too many absent black dads. Am I reading this wrong?

 

[dskillzhtown]

He's not in charge of the entire US police force, and he has made reforms since coming into power to DPD that have proven very effective in de-escalation. He seems characteristically different from other PD chiefs.

And the Mayor seems very different from most mayors. I get what the chief was trying to say and agree he totally botched the delivery. The theme was we need people to come out of the community to keep their communities safe as officers. Also, cities need to stop using cops as swiss army knives. You can be completely critical of his delivery and not give him the benefit of the doubt, but he is one of the few chiefs trying to make real reforms in his department. Not sure what is to be gained by attacking a guy that is actually doing what people are asking other PDs to do.

 

[rokkerkory]

We need to stop yelling at each other and have leaders from all factions come together to talk about real solutions. From left, right, law makers, community leaders all need to work together on this.

Until that happens, there will be only violence.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

We need to stop yelling at each other and have leaders from all factions come together to talk about real solutions. From left, right, law makers, community leaders all need to work together on this.

Until that happens, there will be only violence.

Hard to have a discussion when everything inevitably becomes a debate.

 

[Ivan 3414]

They were actively involved in its planning.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/dallas-protesters-worked-closely-with-police-721663043801

https://twitter.com/dallaspd/status/751222360867418112

"full support" is debatable, but they essentially encouraged people to come out with that tweet. Day and night difference between how DPD handled the Dallas protest and how Baton Rouge PD handled theirs. No riot gear, no intimidation, etc.

I get (and already knew) that members of the Dallas Police Department helped organize the protest with Black Lives Matter in attempt to extend an olive branch to the community, but that's not the same as being for the cause of the protest. The department didn't jump at the opportunity to organize a Black Lives Matter Protest after Alton Sterling was shot; BLM members contacted them in an attempt to make sure the protest went as safely as possible. In the wake of the recent shootings and how poorly some other protests have gone, the DPD, which has been more smartly run than most from what I've read, obliged in the interest of their city not turning into a Ferguson protest.

The police officers didn't take pictures with protesters because the department was advocating their cause. It was a public relations move to clean up the image many have of police. Now, mind you, I acknowledge the DPD did a lot to dissuade violence during the protest, and I'm not shitting on the DPD for their actions that night at all. They did what police should do. But they aren't for BLM or its protests, and nothing should be a clearer sign than that than the Dallas Police Chief saying "stop protesting and be a police officer instead." The DPD went above and beyond most police departments in keeping the community safe during a protest, but that's only because the bar has been set so low for police. Making sure everyone is safe is what all police departments should be doing for nonviolent protests. The Dallas Police Department didn't do anything other than their jobs.

 

[gotstrangepowers]

After watching it in the context of the question, I read it as a public policy criticism, not a personal or community criticism. He grouped it with mental health funding, rehab addiction funding, schools failing and he followed it by saying other parts of democracy need to step up -- he didn't say black mothers or fathers need to step up, he said other parts of government need to step up. Later he goes into more detail about how legislators need to "do their job." He was criticizing public officials, not the public. I don't think he was criticizing the black community, but criticizing the failings of the government that have consequences for the black community.

http://beta.dallasnews.com/news/dal...schief-brown-turns-press-conference-plea-help

Yes, Chief Brown is mainly criticizing the Mayor, the City Council, and the City Manager. In the link above there are a couple of examples of Dallas' mismanagement of city issues.

Also, Dallas PD is among the lowest paid in the entire metroplex and the recently forced out City Manager was one of the worst the city has ever seen. It's also funny how many people don't realize he's African-American.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Hard to have a discussion when everything inevitably becomes a debate.

And when the right is a fucking racist coalition

 

[aliengmr]

tamir race was a kid playing and the dude shot last week had his kid in the backseat.

Are you suggesting that systemic, generational racial inequality hasn't contributed to the problems of policing? Because I would disagree.

 

[FyreWulff]

So while absent black dads are better dads than absent white and hispanic dads, there may still be too many absent black dads. Am I reading this wrong?

Not living in the same house doesn't specifically mean they are absent. The study in the thread I linked noted that a lot of times, black fathers are forced to live separately due to systemic poverty and other issues in the area. The actual housing situation is a separate discussion from their actual presence.