Support NeoGAF

[Brawndo Addict]

Obviously I don't expect him to be a speechwriter too but I do think he could have addressed the points he brought up in a more positive and inclusive way (even with the real context of the question now understood by me). Most of these problems require government based interventions and solutions (mental health strikes out as the most obvious example), not merely community or familial engagement, although that's important too. Rather than pointing to citizens as the primary people who need to act, he could say the police and citizens are in the same boat, we're both being forced to tackle problems we're not equipped to handle as a result of government inaction. I think this was a good opportunity to have a real call to arms in terms of calling out the government as the underlying problem that we need to rally against.

I also think he could lay out a stronger indictment against his own contemporaries across the country while emphasizing that all the good work he's done so far will be tenuous until the state/federal governments enforce new legal standards. Otherwise nothing stops the next police chief or the neighboring jurisdiction from reversing course (or remaining awful) and staining everyone else's reputations and causing further damage and loss of life.

 

[Kin5290]

So, if anyone listens to the Diane Rehm show, Ta-Nehisi Coates pretty much echoes Chief Brown's words on police being asked to deal with complex social problems like mental health problems. It starts in 5:28 or so into the episode.

 

[Aiustis]

Peaceful protesting and disruption is certainly one way. I think that is what Gandhi advocated 'nonviolent' disruption.

Peaceful protest by itself is useless a little violence here and there is good.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Peaceful protesting and disruption is certainly one way. I think that is what Gandhi advocated 'nonviolent' disruption.

And that is ultimately worthless when you have a media structure more interested in images of agitators/opportunists at these peaceful rallies than the protest itself.

All it takes is images of a handful of assholes clashing with law enforcement for the entire protest to be lumped in as people not to be taken seriously...and you can't account for agitators in protest settings.

Until we require the media to be more responsible with their coverage of these things, how can there be anything shift in public opinion? And they have no incentive to change because tragedy and violence gets ratings, not measured discussion on issues at hand.

 

[BlackClouds]

This police chief is deeply against Black people. That's the nicest way I can put it. He rivals Clarance Thomas given his position of power.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Wasn't it disproven that blacks have a significantly higher rate of single parent families as compared to whites and other races? Could of sworn it was...

 

[Krappadizzle]

Peaceful protest by itself is useless a little violence here and there is good.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Peaceful protest by itself is useless a little violence here and there is good.

Citation needed.jpg

 

[Cipherr]

I'm just going to point out that the DPD Chief is an African-American.

IDGAF, he can get it too. Goddamn Black Women get it soooo fucking bad its ridiculous.

 

[Infinite]

Wasn't it disproven that blacks have a significantly higher rate of single parent families as compared to whites and other races? Could of sworn it was...

Yes it was

 

[commedieu]

Citation needed.jpg

Stonewall.

We done?

 

[The Faceless Master]

strange because the protests have been asking them to do less..

less profiling, less abusing, less murdering.

 

[BlackClouds]

So, if anyone listens to the Diane Rehm show, Ta-Nehisi Coates pretty much echoes Chief Brown's words on police being asked to deal with complex social problems like mental health problems. It starts in 5:28 or so into the episode.

There's a difference on who gets the blame. The chief is strongly suggesting it's Black people putting the burden on him and the police.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Bullshit. Public schools are ones that get the finger pointed at them all the time. They're the ones who are expected to solve all the problems in a community.

All while politicians across the country cut the budgets of thousands of public schools.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

Wasn't it disproven that blacks have a significantly higher rate of single parent families as compared to whites and other races? Could of sworn it was...

Doesn't seem so

http://datacenter.kidscount.org/dat...69,36,868,867,133/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431

 

[Infinite]

Doesn't seem so

http://datacenter.kidscount.org/dat...69,36,868,867,133/10,11,9,12,1,185,13/432,431

For the love of God

 

[SciencePilot]

It seems his core point is:

When society puts off solving their problems, this eventually results in crime, and then cops are called in to clean it up. And this isn't good. Society should fix the underlying issues before it results in crime and the police have to get involved.

To me, it sounds like that's what he's getting at with the black single mothers comment.

And that sounds like a legitimate point to me.

 

[Infinite]

It seems his core point is:

When society puts off solving their problems, this eventually results in crime, and then cops are called in to clean it up. And this isn't good. Society should fix the underlying issues before it results in crime and the police have to get involved.

To me, it sounds like that's what he's getting at with the black single mothers comment.

And that sounds like a legitimate point to me.

What about the criminal justice system jailing black fathers at disproportionate rates forcibly removing them from families?

 

[JP_]

For the love of God

It'd be cool if vbulletin had some sort of storify feature where you could link to a group of posts. Seems like that'd be useful for reducing the amount of times we rehash the same discussion over and over.

 

[therealist]

For the love of God

there is a strong correlation (albeit not 1:1) between the single parent household statistic and absent fathers. It's also illogical to talk about how the system incarcerates black males at a disproportionate rate yet maintain that black fathers are just as involved in their children's lives as other races, unless you think that only black males who get incarcerated are childless.

 

[Saucy_XL]

What about the criminal justice system jailing black fathers at disproportionate rates forcibly removing them from families?

Yes but it's not like most of those jailed haven't committed crimes of some sort. I'm not saying it's fair/not racist but a lot people have been pushed to some form of crime as a result of the social issues you quoted. Law enforcement and the criminal justice system certainly makes it worse, but let's recognize if you took cops away there would still be many problems (probably most of the problems)

 

[mr2xxx]

Crime has been trending down for decades though.

 

[Kyzer]

Guy made same great points. Protestors can apply to become police they'll put them in their own neighborhoods and they can be the agents of change themselves...it's up to policymakers to help enact change because police have their hands full actually policing as it is...both sides of the aisle want change but politicians don't do anything, not the cops fault. True shit

 

[Infinite]

there is a strong correlation (albeit not 1:1) between the single parent household statistic and absent fathers. It's also illogical to talk about how the system incarcerates black males at a disproportionate rate yet maintain that black fathers are just as involved in their children's lives as other races, unless you think that only black males who get incarcerated are childless.

Read through the thread please. We've discussed this AT LENGTH prior.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Guy made same great points. Protestors can apply to become police they'll it them in their own neighborhoods and they can be the agents of change themselves

It works on a small neighborhood level, but not in the institutional one where we're in a capitalist society that prospers by creating laws and scenarios in which black people are sent to our private prisons where they become a product that makes people $30-ish per day just by them being incarcerated.

 

[Kyzer]

It works on a small neighborhood level, but not in the institutional one where we're in a capitalist society that prospers by creating laws and scenarios in which black people are sent to our private prisons where they become a product that makes people $30-ish per day just by them being incarcerated.

I don't think it was like some grand suggested solution to fix everything. He was just talking about everything and making a point that people should help be a part of the solution, that theyre even hiring and will hire the protestors to help change things

 

[Fury451]

The flying fuck is he talking about.

He's saying that policing is now, at least when discussed in current media, responsible for more than just policing, which isn't a good thing because that's not what it's for and is implausible for officers leading to problems.

He's saying policing is supposed to be about policing, not supporting and solving all of societies deep-rooted issues.

He bungled the delivery.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Besides his excuses and runoff on things people are not asking them to control, there are things that the police are responsible for that they can control. So I don't get why he goes off on a tangent, control what you can control. And those things have been put forward. Control for example the blue wall of Silence.

 

[NumberTwo]

All this eye-rolling enducing pleading for "starting conversations". Few things:

1. What is there to discuss regarding holding LEOs to the same accontability as citizens they are sworn to protect? Why is this something that needs to be debated? DO IT.
2. What do you think this movement is about has been about this whole time? Have people been paying attention?
3. What do you think black people have been doing for over a 100 years? It has always been the ruling majority that doesn't want to listen. This topic has been no different.

I swear to god, someone is always trying to shift the conversation away from police reform and accountability.

 

[Kin5290]

There's a difference on who gets the blame. The chief is strongly suggesting it's Black people putting the burden on him and the police.

No he's not. Not even close.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

All this eye-rolling enducing pleading for "starting conversations". Few things:

1. What is there to discuss regarding holding LEOs to the same accontability as citizens they are sworn to protect? Why is this something that needs to be debated? DO IT.
2. What do you think this movement is about has been about this whole time? Have people been paying attention?
3. What do you think black people have been doing for over a 100 years? It has always been the ruling majority that doesn't want to listen. This topic has been no different.

I swear to god, someone is always trying to shift the conversation away from police reform and accountability.

I was with a group of leaders who met my city's mayor. Dude required that the meeting wasn't recorded, and he just said "they're accountable to me" to every single question about improving accountability, and he never outlined exactly how he would hold his police accountable.

People who think BLM isn't trying and won't have "conversations" likely don't realize they're blaming the wrong people, because they have no clue just how stubborn and unaccountable their elected officials are and want to continue to be. It's just like our national government in the news: no one will do fucking anything until they are absolutely forced to.

 

[SciencePilot]

What about the criminal justice system jailing black fathers at disproportionate rates forcibly removing them from families?

Right, that's the point exactly. This is one of the problems society has to fix. If we can fix problems like this, then we can have stronger black families, then we can raise children in better environments, then we can reduce crime, then the police won't have to get involved as much.

 

[Infinite]

Right, that's the point exactly. This is one of the problems society has to fix. If we can fix problems like this, then we can have stronger black families, then we can raise children in better environments, then we can reduce crime, then the police won't have to get involved as much.

The police can definitely be held accountable for lopsided policing of black and brown communities.

 

[TAJ]

I'm just going to point out that the DPD Chief is an African-American.

Is his name Bill Cosby?

 

[Ether_Snake]

He's talking like there's more crime than ever, but there's less. So I guess he's just admitting that some people are being left behind by the system. Saying "join the police" is dumb though if he's complaining the police aren't supposed to be the ones fixing everything.

This sounded more like a rant to tell protesters to stop protesting.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

This sounded more like a rant to tell protesters to stop protesting.

Yeah it feels like a passive aggressive version of that for sure.

 

[Toparaman]

My favourite part is where he tells people protesting the violent murders of innocent people by his organisation, to stop protesting murders of innocent people and join his organisation that has been violently murdering innocent people.

It's god tier logic.

Man, can you imagine how different life could have been if the Jews knew all they had to do was just join the Nazis and all the hatred, prejudice and killing would have just stopped right there and then.

Damn.

One of the core tenants of Nazi ideology was the extermination of Jews from Germany. If Jews were allowed to join the Nazi party, it wouldn't be the Nazi party.

Now let's look at the police force. The Dallas police chief (who I suppose is an SS general in your analogy) is encouraging BLM supporters (the Jews) to apply to the police force and change it from the inside.

The truth is, barely anyone is going to take him on that offer, partly because being a cop fucking sucks. You see shit that scars you for life, put yourself in traumatic life-threatening situations, are frequently disrespected, and get paid like shit.

Now I'm not saying any of this excuses police brutality. But the police chief is right. We're expecting blue-collar, average dudes to have the wisdom, strength, and courage of James Bond, or Batman. Cops (and teachers for that matter) should be paid more, and accordingly should be held to higher standards during the hiring process. If you're a bright young person, why would you want to be a cop when you can make more money at a comfy desk job at a tech company? Our priorities as a country are all wrong. I shouldn't be making more than someone who risks his life every day for the public good.

 

[MogCakes]

Yeah it feels like a passive aggressive version of that for sure.

Context is important here. He was answering a reporter's question unrelated to BLM for the most part. His comments are definitely rambling, but I didn't get the impression he was implying wanted protesters to stop protesting.

 

[Zoe]

sounded more like a rant to tell protesters to stop protesting.

One answer to one question is a rant?

Even on Thursday night, the police chief was saying that he wants the protests to continue, and the police department won't be changing how they support them despite any possible risks.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Telling protestors to stop protesting and join the police is like telling anti-war protestors to stop protesting and enlist in the fucking military.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Cops should only have one task, making a community feel safe. If a community doesn't feel safe then the cops have failed at their job. Perhaps they should stop trying to play judge, jury, and executioner, and just focus on their cop duties.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Telling protestors to stop protesting and join the police is like telling anti-war protestors to stop protesting and enlist in the fucking military.

Yes indeed.

"You feel that the war in the Middle East isn't just? Well, put down the protest sign and join up. We're hiring!"

 

[Media]

Telling protestors to stop protesting and join the police is like telling anti-war protestors to stop protesting and enlist in the fucking military.

No, it's saying they need more good people on the force.

He also isn't telling people to stop protesting.

 

[MogCakes]

He also isn't telling people to stop protesting.

I feel like some people here have gotten so entrenched in their views they interpret everything in black/white dogma.

 

[Ether_Snake]

He also isn't telling people to stop protesting.

Really?

Get off that protest line and put an application in.

 

[Kin5290]

He's talking like there's more crime than ever, but there's less. So I guess he's just admitting that some people are being left behind by the system. Saying "join the police" is dumb though if he's complaining the police aren't supposed to be the ones fixing everything.

This sounded more like a rant to tell protesters to stop protesting.

So let me get this straight. He holds a press conference where he says that the system has society has failed and that cops are being pushed to fill roles that they aren't equipped for, but that Congress needs to act on gun control, and that open carry has made it difficult to tell the good guys with guns from the bad guys with guns. But because of one question where he's asked what can people do and he answers to explain his own background and reason for being a cop and suggesting that people follow in his footsteps, he's just telling protestors to stop protesting?

Really?

Get off that protest line and put an application in. We’ll put you in your neighborhood – we will help you resolve some of the problems you are protesting about.”

It's almost as if some people are trying their hardest to cherry pick and come off as righteous.

 

[MogCakes]

Really?

I read that as "be the change" rather than a pointed "stop protesting".

 

[not psycho]

Could be worded better, but this is the police chief who has been firing bad cops and supporting whistleblowers, standing up to the union... one of the most important culture changes that could happen in the police force. And who was working with the protestors. I think he genuinely wants more minority officers, rather than wanting people to stop protesting, but worded it very poorly.

And who exactly is he calling out? BLM or legislators? Failing schools, gun control, decaying infrastructure, widespread poverty? Who ignores those things... BLM or legislators?

Based on what else he's done I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and consider him to be calling out legislators and the public who elects them. Not protestors.

The one thing you can really call him out for is that he is implying police brutality is not the whole story. But again... he has been making progress fighting police brutality. The opposite of ignoring it. In that context, he's right. It isn't the whole story. It's not a simple "police are racist for some unknown reason and always kill Black people when they wouldn't have killed a White person" (I don't think almost anyone believes this, but if you don't believe it then the DPD chief's statements shouldn't be that bothersome).

If it was that simple, he would be wrong. But if it is connected, if (for example) the police are used as a tool to maintain existing disparity, then he is right. But BLM knows that. The people that need to hear it are people who claim to support the police but not BLM. If you support police that should be yet another reason to make sure your legislators fix failing schools, gun control, infrastructure, poverty, mass incarceration, etc, because police can't do all that. If you don't make an effort to fix those things, you don't really care about police either.

 

[DreadfulOmen]

Racist love blaming black women for the downfall of society

huh? how did you reach that conclusion?

 

[Future]

IDGAF, he can get it too. Goddamn Black Women get it soooo fucking bad its ridiculous.

I think its a complaint more about black men potentially not remaining as a father figure. Without parental support, kids run amok and its often too much for one single parent to deal with, man or woman. This post sums up my thoughts though:

What about the criminal justice system jailing black fathers at disproportionate rates forcibly removing them from families?

He is right about one thing. Any problem at all? Call the police. They are asked to put lives on the line while also remaining calm and collected in the worst of circumstances. It's a tough job for sure, most people couldn't do it. Some people on the force can't do it