Hahaha...NO.
Monomi's RNG-based equipment collecting minigame was such as pain in the butt.
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Danganronpa Community Thread: Thrills! Chills! Kills! Despair!
- Thread starter Vylash
- Start date
Hahaha...NO.
lazyproblems
Member
I know a lot of devs strive to make any one game a good jumping on point for most series, but that's harder to imagine for AE. The game would have to spoil big portions of DR1 at the very least (mastermind, several survivors, etc). My guess is that Flux is right, and he's focussing on the individual trials not being spoiled.
Yeah, if anyone will do it, it would be them. Hoping they get inspired to.
Goddamnit.
SerTapTap
Member
The postgames are totally awful, I don't know what they're thinking. The trip tickets are just a straight up fuck-you. Everything else in DR1 is fine, monomi's RNG shit is awful too
Werewolf Jones
Member
WTF the trip tickets aren't even bad, the first game had the exact same system.
SerTapTap
Member
3 extra playthroughs of School mode, which is only fun for one or two playthroughs tops, with near-zero character exposition is definitely bad IMO. It might not suck if it was just one trip per character...because in the end that's all you're doing, the same trip, over and over like 10 times, and picking one of the same dialog choices for a lame response. I quit after getting Taka alone about 3/4ths of the way
Compare to the Free Time which is minimal effort with constant character development payout.
Werewolf Jones
Member
Average Island Mode playthrough is ~3 hours. If you don't got time to grind then fair enough but at least you know when it will end unlike the Monomi mini game which I spent AT LEAST 10 hours mindlessly grinding for a single trophy to Plat the game.
Island Mode was worth it for this to start up during the first playthrough. So good.
Island Mode was worth it for this to start up during the first playthrough. So good.
lazyproblems
Member
I've said it before but DR1's school mode is better than DR2's. At least in 1 you get a decent amount character development at the very end, and the little events add a smidge too. In 2 they're literally just there for a trophy.
Similarly, I didn't mind Monomi's game, but it can get tiring if you're going for the trophy.
Similarly, I didn't mind Monomi's game, but it can get tiring if you're going for the trophy.
dakkumauji
Member
I really liked IF. Then again, Narita is a writing genius.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
I read IF but I didn't like it much because it felt like an average fanfiction more than anything.
Mukuro being able to fight off a million Monokumas got more ridiculous the longer the sequence went on for.
I haven't read Zero but I hear it's an overall better story with that Ultimate Neurologist guy. Can't wait for a translation. :O
I read Zero and then IF. Really, the references in IF are so small that you really don't *have* to read Zero for them. It enhances it slightly.
The only part I didn't get was
The only part I didn't get was
Maradai being called "Ultimate Hacker" rather than a bodyguard/multiple siblings. I guess Junko just kind of tossed that out there?
Werewolf Jones
Member
I never even read IF, I just skipped through it, that Monomi game burned me out hard, I read the synopsis though and it sounded like it had potential but just ended up being dumb. I will read DR/Zero at some point soon however.
SerTapTap
Member
IF is way too hard to read, I honestly gave up just because of that. It's just not pleasant to read THAT much text all at once with nearly no images or breaks, and the pages not appearing instantly without mashing buttons got old really fast.
Monomi game isn't bad. The RNG farming for drops is bad. The game is fine, except those purple snorlax things.
Monomi game isn't bad. The RNG farming for drops is bad. The game is fine, except those purple snorlax things.
Huh? It's not too different from reading a regular book. I really like reading, so I read through it in around 45-50 mins.
dakkumauji
Member
You don't have to read it in one setting?
There's even a bookmark feature just for that.
lazyproblems
Member
I liked IF. I thought it was a fun what if scenario that was a nice little bonus for DR2.
Ganzlinger
Member
I liked IF.
Where can I read Zero?
Where can I read Zero?
Werewolf Jones
Member
Around the web, I got it from the Dangan Ronpa general on 4chan.
Ganzlinger
Member
There is no western release?
lazyproblems
Member
There are fan translations, but no official release yet, no.
edit;
From the ps blog interview:
I agree that the segments in 1 were better than 2.
The segments in 1 felt like they had much more grounding in the narrative and always had something to say towards hinting at what was to come, or just giving us more insight into Monokuma's twisted and darkly humorous world view. DR1 spoilers:
. DR2 definitely felt they were more there just to be there, and none of the skits really had much to do with anything. As funny as the morse code scene was, it wasn't particularly relevant in either highlighting a theme or an idea.
that Monokuma was televising the entire shebang also helped contextualize it, as it'd be an awfully Monokuma thing to do to interrupt the game with his little skits
also the sakura's wrath commercial >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything
Sky Interloper
Member
So that's why I felt the Monokuma Theater in 2 felt lacking. It wouldn't surprise me if they get the axe in 3 if the developers think they have become even more pointless to the main narrative.
Apparently it was just (DR0, IF spoilers)
Apparently it was just (DR0, IF spoilers)
Junko using the first name that came to her mind, and at the same time making a joke about the Madarai brothers from Zero.
If you didn't know or don't remember, the siblings are named in order of appearance, so she used the kanji for extra when making that name up.
Ganzlinger
Member
Thanks for the info!
This is what I think, if Danganronpa 3 is to be mechanically similar to its predecessors:
- Remove Hangman's Gambit completely. Replace moments that would potentially call for it with simple multiple choice questions, which is already a system in the game.
- Rebuttals are a great concept, but poorly executed. B.T.B and P.T.A are nonsense, but operate on the same wavelength as rebuttals; just implemented at different narrative points. Remove the rhythm games completely. Keep the sword battle motif of Rebuttals, but eliminate all of the manual slashing to advance dialogue. The concept for the two systems essentially reflects the psychological debate two characters are engaged in when the opposition refuses to accept something. What I'm thinking of is a largely sped up, 1v1 Nonstop Debate. The opponent would say something and, within just a few seconds, the player must press a button if what they're saying is false. If it is, they must select evidence in a given list as to why it's false, again, within a few seconds. If a statement isn't false, it passes like any other Nonstop Debate line of text. It would continue at a brusque pace until the logical end of the usual rhythm game segments or Rebuttals are reached, where a single piece breaks apart the foundation of the opponent's reasoning.
- This one's contentious, but remove Logic Dive. I like it conceptually, but how it's implemented only serves to break up the momentum of a class trial for the worse. It controls poorly, and is just unnecessary abstraction for what's actually going on. Replace this by simply stealing Ace Attorney 5's Revisualization system: essentially several multiple choice questions which chain together progressively just like Logic Dives, bringing about an epiphany in the end. The difference is that you select the answer traditionally, instead of going through this whole, poor mini-game process.
- Closing Arguments are great. Can't think of too much to improve here, and I wasn't too bothered by how they changed it in DR2. The icons should fill out whole panels progressively when they're inserted into the right slot instead of remaining small circles until the end, though.
- Nonstop Debates are alright but, as the core part of classroom trials, I feel like there's room for improvement here. Selecting a Truth bullet and shooting it is fine. Noise is kind of weird... maybe that's what I'd want changed or removed. What the noise says can be pretty amusing sometimes, though, especially when you try to associate what it says with who's likely saying it. I think what I actually want is for this to be the one mechanic that is more complicated, but in a way that doesn't make it more convoluted. Maybe adding an element like Ace Attorney's "press" system, where you can get more information out of someone if they say something suspicious but not outright contradictory.
Basically, I want classroom trial mechanics to be as consolidated as possible, instead of being kind of messy like they are now. I want the mechanics to be less "video gamey" and focus more on what's actually going on: logic battles and breakthroughs. I want less pointless abstraction, and keep the action within the context of what's going on in the trial (but maintaining the aesthetic flourishes, like the bullet and sword motifs). I'm with the Danganronpa developers when they were making the first game: a lot of these components are actually unnecessary, and do not improve the experience.
- Remove Hangman's Gambit completely. Replace moments that would potentially call for it with simple multiple choice questions, which is already a system in the game.
- Rebuttals are a great concept, but poorly executed. B.T.B and P.T.A are nonsense, but operate on the same wavelength as rebuttals; just implemented at different narrative points. Remove the rhythm games completely. Keep the sword battle motif of Rebuttals, but eliminate all of the manual slashing to advance dialogue. The concept for the two systems essentially reflects the psychological debate two characters are engaged in when the opposition refuses to accept something. What I'm thinking of is a largely sped up, 1v1 Nonstop Debate. The opponent would say something and, within just a few seconds, the player must press a button if what they're saying is false. If it is, they must select evidence in a given list as to why it's false, again, within a few seconds. If a statement isn't false, it passes like any other Nonstop Debate line of text. It would continue at a brusque pace until the logical end of the usual rhythm game segments or Rebuttals are reached, where a single piece breaks apart the foundation of the opponent's reasoning.
- This one's contentious, but remove Logic Dive. I like it conceptually, but how it's implemented only serves to break up the momentum of a class trial for the worse. It controls poorly, and is just unnecessary abstraction for what's actually going on. Replace this by simply stealing Ace Attorney 5's Revisualization system: essentially several multiple choice questions which chain together progressively just like Logic Dives, bringing about an epiphany in the end. The difference is that you select the answer traditionally, instead of going through this whole, poor mini-game process.
- Closing Arguments are great. Can't think of too much to improve here, and I wasn't too bothered by how they changed it in DR2. The icons should fill out whole panels progressively when they're inserted into the right slot instead of remaining small circles until the end, though.
- Nonstop Debates are alright but, as the core part of classroom trials, I feel like there's room for improvement here. Selecting a Truth bullet and shooting it is fine. Noise is kind of weird... maybe that's what I'd want changed or removed. What the noise says can be pretty amusing sometimes, though, especially when you try to associate what it says with who's likely saying it. I think what I actually want is for this to be the one mechanic that is more complicated, but in a way that doesn't make it more convoluted. Maybe adding an element like Ace Attorney's "press" system, where you can get more information out of someone if they say something suspicious but not outright contradictory.
Basically, I want classroom trial mechanics to be as consolidated as possible, instead of being kind of messy like they are now. I want the mechanics to be less "video gamey" and focus more on what's actually going on: logic battles and breakthroughs. I want less pointless abstraction, and keep the action within the context of what's going on in the trial (but maintaining the aesthetic flourishes, like the bullet and sword motifs). I'm with the Danganronpa developers when they were making the first game: a lot of these components are actually unnecessary, and do not improve the experience.
Eh, I like the abstract style of a lot of the parts. The games have always had this interesting balance between reality and the absurd. I think it serves that well to use the minigames in metaphorical like ways.
I agree on Hangman's Gambit in the state DR2 left it in, but I thought Rebuttal Showdowns were great, fun, and executed quite well. There isn't much I would change with it, outside of better tutorials for it. I'd also say the rhythm games serve their purpose well enough to be kept. Closing arguments make sense, as well.
Logic dive was done decent all around, but could be a lot better if they reworked it so it could go into the flow of the trial rather than being a couple minute diversion. The concept is really what's good there. Following a logical path of potential options to its conclusion.
I'd almost say it'd be a good idea to have it an alternate version of nonstop debate. Say, make a way where the player leads the discussion in a certain direction to provide a conclusion everyone can agree on. Each one starts with MC asking himself a question. Options are given quickly by MC and others. The end, the player picks an option from three possible ones. This happens three times. At the end, MC tries to follow the line of logic (like closing argument) and, if it doesn't match up, you have to restart.
The problem with it now if you stripped out the action aspect (and with AA5's version of it) is how incredibly basic it is. It handholds despite it supposedly being the player putting the facts together. The requirement of getting one step right in order to move on just means you pick until you've got it right. The system would be so much better if they let you try to put together a train of logic all the way through (even if it has you concluding obviously incorrect things in that process), then test it to be right.
I agree on Hangman's Gambit in the state DR2 left it in, but I thought Rebuttal Showdowns were great, fun, and executed quite well. There isn't much I would change with it, outside of better tutorials for it. I'd also say the rhythm games serve their purpose well enough to be kept. Closing arguments make sense, as well.
Logic dive was done decent all around, but could be a lot better if they reworked it so it could go into the flow of the trial rather than being a couple minute diversion. The concept is really what's good there. Following a logical path of potential options to its conclusion.
I'd almost say it'd be a good idea to have it an alternate version of nonstop debate. Say, make a way where the player leads the discussion in a certain direction to provide a conclusion everyone can agree on. Each one starts with MC asking himself a question. Options are given quickly by MC and others. The end, the player picks an option from three possible ones. This happens three times. At the end, MC tries to follow the line of logic (like closing argument) and, if it doesn't match up, you have to restart.
The problem with it now if you stripped out the action aspect (and with AA5's version of it) is how incredibly basic it is. It handholds despite it supposedly being the player putting the facts together. The requirement of getting one step right in order to move on just means you pick until you've got it right. The system would be so much better if they let you try to put together a train of logic all the way through (even if it has you concluding obviously incorrect things in that process), then test it to be right.
I like this idea. It's a bit different conceptually since it involves the input of other characters rather than the main character having an epiphany on their own, but that doesn't really matter. The potential problem with this is that, without that hand-holding you mention, I could see scenarios where this is frustrating when a player can't follow the proper logic, and has to repeat these potentially lengthy segments numerous times as a result.
Still, incorporating this as an alternate form of Nonstop Debate is cool. I think this would be a good way of expanding the core mechanic of classroom trials, and these segments could be used several times during a trials as opposed to the limited times Logic Dives actually appear (partially, because they're so involved). The main character is often the one who leads the direction of the discussion, anyways, so it would make sense. Also, there are often moments where characters are speculating outside of a Nonstop Debate, which usually lead into a multiple choice question or a Hangman's Gambit that the player has to resolve. These "group speculation" moments would fit right into what you're suggesting.
SerTapTap
Member
What's weird about the rhythm segments is I have way more trouble with the "simplified" ones in 2 than the "hard" ones in 1. Since you're not constantly keeping the beat I often fumble multiple times trying to get back into it. Rarely had a problem with it in DR 1.
Aside from the Hangman's Gambit which is stupid awful and terrible, I don't really mind any of the minigames. I really liked the swordfight except it's got some flaws--some words take way too many swipes without warning, swiping too fast can erase the point you need to counter, and a few statements clearly weren't designed with d pad controls in mind, though it's still possible to do them all with physical controls only.
I'd be up for yet another remix of Nonstop Debate like the swordfights are, I like those the most, and I like a bit of logic being thrown in.
Yeah, I liked the idea to bring an intermission in the trial for a save-break (they're very long and it feels weird to save in them, but you actually totally can), but Monokuma theaters were totally better in 1. It almost felt like Monokuma was trying to say something profound but he's just nuts so it comes out as something all screwed up. Mostly just cheap gags in 2.
If I had to mash X to read a normal book I'd never have finished a single novel. Annoyingly you CAN just press L/R to switch full pages instantly but only after you've "read" them.
Aside from the Hangman's Gambit which is stupid awful and terrible, I don't really mind any of the minigames. I really liked the swordfight except it's got some flaws--some words take way too many swipes without warning, swiping too fast can erase the point you need to counter, and a few statements clearly weren't designed with d pad controls in mind, though it's still possible to do them all with physical controls only.
I'd be up for yet another remix of Nonstop Debate like the swordfights are, I like those the most, and I like a bit of logic being thrown in.
Yeah, I liked the idea to bring an intermission in the trial for a save-break (they're very long and it feels weird to save in them, but you actually totally can), but Monokuma theaters were totally better in 1. It almost felt like Monokuma was trying to say something profound but he's just nuts so it comes out as something all screwed up. Mostly just cheap gags in 2.
If I had to mash X to read a normal book I'd never have finished a single novel. Annoyingly you CAN just press L/R to switch full pages instantly but only after you've "read" them.
Use O instead. Pages load up much quicker.
Well, for the purpose of time, that's why you have the fast forward part, and why overall it should be about the length of a nonstop debate session.
You'd also probably want to make each section its own little debate. After the first one, a character voices their disagreement quickly (which, fi you're going in the wrong direction, ti should be written to clue you into that). Then you have a few other quick options and the option to decide between some ways to reconcile the concern or backtrack a step. I feel as though most of the concerns you raised could be easily dealt with when getting into the details of how each individual one is done.
lazyproblems
Member
As a follow up, for whatever it's worth, a NISA rep posted this in the comments section of the PS blog Q&A:
CTdan – sadly Zero hasn’t been published in NA yet, but you can find translations on the interwebsSome translations can be a little broken but it really adds to the overall plot!
So at least as far as NISA is concerned, they don't seemingly have any intention of bringing it over and are fine with you using a fan translation. Not that that's totally surprising, they've never published books, so I guess they don't think they stand to lose anything. Still hoping Yen Press picks it up.
---
I'm actually fine with a lot of the minigames. I feel that they add to the zaniness of the proceedings, but there's always room for improvements. The only one that's just totally bad and has never worked is the Hangman's Gambit. Especially the "improved" version in DR2. That was something that broke immersion and was a pain in the ass.
I'm one of the people who likes the logic dive. Or at least the idea of it. I just wish there was a better way to incorporate more of the typical DR visual elements of it. I get it's supposed to be going on in his head, but I think there's a better way to visually tie in with the rest of the trial without it being as jarring.
The rhythm game works for me. I feel like it adds to the absurdity and adds a bit to the mood at the end of a trial. The Closing Argument has been one of my favorite touches, and like you I don't think it should be removed or changed too much.
For nonstop debate, I think white noise is a funny touch, but I thought the execution was better in 1 than 2. Having "super" white noise that need an ability that you can't possibly have in your first playthrough to be destroyed was just silly. I like the alternating nonstop idea by LX Theo too.
Werewolf Jones
Member
I don't have it but for $50 it looks decent. Wouldn't pay anything over $75 for it though including shipping.
Cha
Member
Not in my hands as yet, but it's on it's way. If $50 includes shipping, then it's okay. If that's excluding shipping then it's a bit expensive. I got mine for $30 excl. shipping. Sent you a link.
Ganzlinger
Member
So Zero is a novel like IF, right? No visuals included like a comic/manga?
dakkumauji
Member
It does have some illustrations throughout the story. But, its more like IF, a text based work.
Werewolf Jones
Member
It's a light novel. It has character illustrations.
dakkumauji
Member
Sooooo I got this today, gotta make time to watch this someday.
Sky Interloper
Member
As per the course this last couple of weeks, Gamasutra interviewed Kodaka during his appearance at GDC.
This one is more about his writing and the development process, with even a nod to Nagito's name red herring and a little analysis of the mastermind.
Obviously, the piece is filled with ENDGAME SPOILERS FOR BOTH DR1 AND DR2, so anyone who hasn't completed both games yet is discouraged to read this.
This one is more about his writing and the development process, with even a nod to Nagito's name red herring and a little analysis of the mastermind.
Obviously, the piece is filled with ENDGAME SPOILERS FOR BOTH DR1 AND DR2, so anyone who hasn't completed both games yet is discouraged to read this.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
I didn't know there was a stage adaptation. :O Can anyone vouch for its quality/lack of?
SerTapTap
Member
terrifying
Got your pm obviously, was looking on Amazon where it's $80 otheriwse. I'll get around to buying it from that playoma thing
Oh man, I don't know Kodaka. Who the hell is thinking:
...when it comes to Nagito? He's my favorite character in the series, and I'm not that nuts. I definitely understand why he does what he does, but being able to relate to him for what he does? That'd take a special kind of person.
I definitely do like the contrast between hope and despair in this slide. I feel that there should maybe be an emphasis on the darker side of certain characters, outside of Free Time Events, even when they don't end up being a murderer or a murdered. DR's done a good job with that for the most part, but I think even "joke" characters like Ibuki or Yasuhiro could have seriously dark moments like that. Well, Yasuhiro does show that he's pretty messed up at times, at least.
I still think this is a cheap red herring. Danganronpa has some good ones, but Nagito's name to deliberately fool people is not a good one.
Hm. I guess that's where Monokuma comes in, but sometimes violent shifts of mood do more harm than good. Can't necessarily recall moments where that was the case in DR right now.
Kodaka = the mastermind, heh. This is interesting, because it potentially means that, if Monokuma reappears in Danganronpa 3, he'll have the same role of being a way to channel Kodaka's thoughts.
I didn't necessarily think about Monokuma channeling the writer's thoughts while playing DR1, but I did think about how a lot of what Monokuma said at times—aside from the twisted stuff—made sense. I guess that explains it.
Minor Danganronpa 3 concept/scene confirmed.
Hm... I'm going to be interested in seeing what DR:AE's about.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I laughed so much at the accurate parts of that
Black Republican
Member
Toko though
I wish I could be in San Diego next month for their Danganronpa murder mystery!
I noticed more of these games like those escape room and survival games have been "localized" for the US, like Eva and Attack on Titan, but I never thought we'd get a Danganronpa one! That would be super fun.
I noticed more of these games like those escape room and survival games have been "localized" for the US, like Eva and Attack on Titan, but I never thought we'd get a Danganronpa one! That would be super fun.