Support NeoGAF

[*Splinter]

anyone else find it weird Pau hasn't posted all day?

?

Err... I think I'm still taking some of your posts too seriously. This is a joke right?

 

[Makai]

Not to pre-empt your answer too much, but here's the information we, as a town, get tonight: a) someone dies, b) more than one person dies, c) no-one dies. a)... doesn't help us know if someone is Despair or not if the person who died never said anything at all, because we can't draw any conclusions. b) tells us the same as c) but also there are extra killing roles, which is useful to know as a general piece of information but doesn't help us make any more specific choices in the short run. c) gives us no information *at all* other than that there's probably a protective role of some sort. None of these are very likely to give you specific information on who is likely to be Despair. The only way it does is if someone dies who talked a lot, pushed a lot of buttons, and we can see which buttons Despair wants to avoid being pushed... but that doesn't happen if you keep quiet and vote No Punishment.

So, what are you expecting to gain from this night? Like, please explain what actual piece of information you want.

You are role fishing. No way I should tell you that on Day 1.

@CzarTim, a dogwhistle is a message designed to be understood exclusively by certain people. You said something that makes me think you are Hope.

I am at work and don't have much time for response. I won't get home until after the deadline. However, I don't mind making this a clear choice for most of you. I am a Hope power role. I still discourage everyone from disclosing their roles, but I believe I am in a unique position to reveal my role title. It would have been better to wait until Day 2, but I think it will be okay if I go early. I am the Super High-School Level Lucky Student! I was pretty stoked to get a power role, but then I started playing the video game and found out I'm the main character. CzarTim's nickname for me is Mak. Well...

MAKoto NAegI

 

[CzarTim]

dude seriously

 

[CzarTim]

like there are ways to defend yourself without role claiming, people come on. Why didn't you just give us a frickin list of reads instead of waiting until the last second to role claim

 

[Deleted member 231381]

>facepalm<

Mafia wouldn't even have had to have rolefished, you made it pretty obvious by saying "wait for information, wait for information" when it's obvious no ordinary town role would get super useful information - CornBurrito surmised as much some time ago and I've suspected similarly. You then ignored *multiple* prompts to act like a normal town and not like an idiot or a power role. Well, at least you didn't say what your role does, so thank heavens for small blessings. For the love of god though, if you're ever a power role again, please play like you would an ordinary town.

 

[CzarTim]

unvote: mak

give me a sec for new vote

 

[Deleted member 231381]

CzarTim says what I'm thinking before I do, creepy. He clearly has a power role.

UNVOTE: Makai

but also

FUCK YOU: Makai

 

[CzarTim]

>facepalm<

Mafia wouldn't even have had to have rolefished, you made it pretty obvious by saying "wait for information, wait for information" when it's obvious no ordinary town role would get super useful information - CornBurrito surmised as much some time ago and I've suspected similarly. You then ignored *multiple* prompts to act like a normal town and not like an idiot or a power role. Well, at least you didn't say what your role does, so thank heavens for small blessings. For the love of god though, if you're ever a power role again, please play like you would an ordinary town.

... I'm really dumb when it comes to breadcrumbs which is why i made fun of them in one of my first posts, but if you suspected that he had a role why the hell were you still pushing him

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Okay, just as a heads up to ANY AND ALL POWER ROLES THAT MIGHT BE READING THIS.

1. ACT LIKE AN ORDINARY TOWN.
2. DO NOT HINT AT YOUR ROLE
3. DO NOT CLAIM YOUR ROLE
4. IF YOU CLAIM YOUR ROLE (DON'T DO THIS) DON'T SAY WHAT IT DOES
5. USE YOUR GOD DAMN COMMON SENSE

I literally cannot believe two town PRs are effectively outed already, one because he asked how his own role PM works in a public thread and the other because he was too silly to work out that if he acts out of place than people will judge him for it.

 

[CzarTim]

... I'm really dumb when it comes to breadcrumbs which is why i made fun of them in one of my first posts, but if you suspected that he had a role why the hell were you still pushing him

like I'm not saying you are necessarily scum for that but I dont understand that play

 

[Terrabyte20xx]

I knew there was a reason why I never voted for mak dispute being suspicious, something just never clicked with him being dispair, and now I know why.


Just in case it was missed by others, I'm currently voting for Zippedpinhead under the theory that middle of the road day 1 players are scum.

 

[CzarTim]

thisfuckinggameman

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

CzarTim says what I'm thinking before I do, creepy. He clearly has a power role.

UNVOTE: Makai

but also

FUCK YOU: Makai

HEY!

27. Outside of votes and explicit allowances made by role PMs, the use of the highlight tag is strictly the game-runner's prerogative. Do not use it.

If you can't follow the rules, I'm going to have to kick you from the game.

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member 231381]

... I'm really dumb when it comes to breadcrumbs which is why i made fun of them in one of my first posts, but if you suspected that he had a role why the hell were you still pushing him

A number of reasons: firstly, I wasn't super sure because I didn't want to think anyone would be that bone-headed as a PR, secondly, mafia don't kill people under suspiscion because they don't need to, town can do that, so by throwing a little bit of shade on potential PRs but steering away from them at the end you can keep them alive longer, and thirdly mafia knows he isn't mafia so they'd not have to worry like I do in the first point and would just know he's a PR and kill him, so by prompting him to give reads like an ordinary god damn player hopefully they'll think maybe he isn't a PR after all.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

HEY!

27. Outside of votes and explicit allowances made by role PMs, the use of the highlight tag is strictly the game-runner's prerogative. Do not use it.

If you can't follow the rules, I'm going to have to kick you from the game.

Spoiler

 

[CzarTim]

yeah ok i guess

 

[*Splinter]

I was oblivious until this post:

Vote: Makai

I wasn't too sure on the whole argument against you for a while because I was focusing more on kitty/terra, but after going back and reading through every one of your posts so far I can really see why people are pinning you as being high on the 'possibly-mafia' list. So far everything you have said is very non-committal with 90%-ish of it being about probability or past games and statistics. You have enough comments to show that you are somewhat following things but yet you haven't put anything forward to suggest you have the Town in mind. No accusations, no thoughts on a majority of players or plays, and a lack of discussion about other in-game events other than 'power roles #445 power roles #450 power roles #783 PROBABILITY #660'. If you do make accusations towards people there isn't much follow up with them either or give no evidence as to why you accuse them. #836. What is really bothering me is you are not moving past your initial 'but POWER ROLES tho' stance and not fully elaborating on it and your lack of any defense for yourself with a good handful of people calling you out. It feels like you are just trying to slip by.

I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here and say it has been a not-so-great play at helping the Town but I want to hear your defense. Without references to past games/probability please.

If not, this will be my final vote for Day 1.

Kinda spelled it out for me.

Crab you guessed already? I can't understand

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I mean, I think we can do both - hyper-aggressive works, but people need to learn to cope with that better. You don't drop hints you have a role when there are two votes on you, or four votes, or even eight votes or whatnot. You do it literally one vote before you get lynched if there is absolutely no other possible way you can persuade people. Fundamentally, the best defense in mafia is a good offense - if people are lynching you unjustly, the best way you can stop them doing that is by getting them to lynch someone else. You could do that by revealing your role - except they may not believe you and if they do you still get picked off by Despair. Alternatively, you can do that by persuading them that someone else is even more scummy than you are.

As such, I think it's pretty important we do keep up constant pressure via the votes, and with that in mind,

VOTE: Makai

Literally, look at this. This was bloody pages ago, the very first time I voted Makai, and it gave him a super obvious out: literally just name suspects and why you suspect them. That's not rocket science, it is how the game works.

The first paragraph of this still holds true for *everyone*, especially the bold sentence.

 

[franconp]

I don't understand makai, if you didn't wanted to expose yourself why the hell did you acted suspicious? Why did you made a post saying that last time only mafia player voted no lynch the firts day?

I'm not certain who I should vote now. My 2 main despair players were makai and A Human Becoming and one roleclaimed and the other replaced. I'm leaving work in an hour, I have at least a half an hour comute, when I get home will try to reread most of the thread so I will try to make my vote the earlier I can.

 

[*Splinter]

Ok I see your explanation now. But still, didn't you single handedly force a day 1 role reveal?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Ok I see your explanation now. But still, didn't you single handedly force a day 1 role reveal?

No. I literally gave him a way out so many times. Literally every time I voted him, I said "give me suspects". I even switched my vote to Salva, made Salva gave me suspects, then switched back to Makai - like, it's pretty clear at this point I just want players to contribute reads, aka the basis of how the entire game works. The blame for Makai outing himself, totally unnecessarily, falls entirely and squarely on Makai.

 

[CzarTim]

well I agree with that. terrible play from someone who begged people not to reveal themselves day one

 

[Barrylocke]

Fuckfuckfuck. Now I don't know what to do. I was going to make a post on Rest vs. Makai because they are the top two, but...


Rest:
He wants us to play the game on its own merits, not with too much meta. On one hand I think meta is valuable, but he's right that it shouldn't blind us to the current truths. That's pretty towny in my eyes.

He's willing to challenge "authority" ie the tussle with Crab and the vote on big talker Swamped. He doesn't want to be a follower, which is useful. That said, I also agree that this early on it's not good to focus on one thread when there's so many possibilities out there.

Makai:
His No Punishment stance is definitely at odds with not just the towns, but my own. He says literally nothing the entire time, and this is very dangerous to me. (Hidden thought: I kind of think it COULD be because he has a power role, he's very protective and confident in them. But I'd rather lose a mafia member than a power-role, and we could learn if it was a power role.)

The Hidden thought was something I wasn't going to post outside of my notes, for obvious reasons, but now that it's pretty much come true...I still don't think much on Rest yet, just because fighting the big people seems pretty Hopeful to me...Damn.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Right, let's salvage this. We're now wasting time discussing someone we almost certainly shouldn't lynch for the time being.

VOTE: ViviOggi

I don't particularly scumread Rest, who's been the main competitor to Makai in these closing stages. Personally, I think its pretty ballsy to press so hard on a player with a bit of experience so early in the game, especially one who other people seem to think is a leader (I prefer prompter; you fuckers lead yourselves). Vivi is pretty definitively middle of the pack scum to me - middle-ish post rate, posts sit on the fence, very selective engagement, the works.

 

[Sawneeks]

Well damn it.

 

[Sawneeks]

I was oblivious until this post:

Kinda spelled it out for me.

Crab you guessed already? I can't understand

Wait, what did I spell out exactly?

Also,

Unvote: Makai

 

[CzarTim]

vivi hasnt been on my radar like at all, I'll reread real quick

 

[CzarTim]

can someone who has played these games spoil tag me a confirmation that Mak's claim makes sense as town. he has a history of last minute bull shit and thats oddly specific flavor when i thought we frowned on specific flavor

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Whoever responds to Tim, remember this rule

34. Please refrain from discussing the source material for the theme too openly. Discussion is allowed, by tag major spoilers appropriately. The game will not rely too heavily on the source material and roles are not necessarily indicative of their counterparts in the source material.

Keep the answer concise.

 

[CzarTim]

please also link to the warez so i can play the game myself

 

[*Splinter]

Wait, what did I spell out exactly?

Also,

Unvote: Makai

That Makai is quite likely a Hope power role. It was the literal repeating of power role power role POWER ROLE that finally alerted me

 

[CzarTim]

please also link to the warez so i can play the game myself

jk dont ban me evilore

 

[SalvaPot]

I don´t know why people are so worried, I´ll rather have Makai reveal himself right now than getting evicted day one, if anything we now have a strong lead and Despair would be dumb to try to get him killed this night, since I am sure everyone focus is going to be on him, be it power roles, defensive roles, investigative roles etc.

I am finding far more interesting the reactions to his reveal, and I still feel that goshujinsama soft-claim is more an accident rather than telling of his actual role in this game, I won´t read too much into it.

But yeah, this was exactly what I was referring to when I was saying a no-lynch stance in day 1 is really risky, since people tend to focus on those against the consensus.

This is the voting for makai:
Retracted:
Crab
CzarTim
Zippedpinhead
Sawneeks

Standing (But obviously going to retract if they are here)
franconp
CornBurrito
Pau

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Does anyone look at my beautiful spreadsheet?

 

[Sawneeks]

That Makai is quite likely a Hope power role. It was the literal repeating of power role power role POWER ROLE that finally alerted me

Hmmmmm. Yeah, no, you're right, it does. It still came across as suspicious to me because it's the only thing Makai has really talked about without giving a proper defense to any questions aimed at him. It seems now it's just a bad Town play ( or really good Mafia cover ) but it was still so different than what most everyone else was doing that I pinged it as Mafia.

 

[franconp]

Unvote: Makai[/QUOTE]

I will unvote now and will cast a new vote when I have a chance to reread the thread.

 

[CornBurrito]

I need to read everything but for now

Unvote: Makai

 

[SalvaPot]

can someone who has played these games spoil tag me a confirmation that Mak's claim makes sense as town. he has a history of last minute bull shit and thats oddly specific flavor when i thought we frowned on specific flavor

The character he claims he has is the equivalent of say, Phoenix Wright or Junpei on 999, so pretty much hope.

But if you read into his post, he is claiming to be Super High-School Level Lucky Student, not Makoto himself. I really doubt Launch would actually name the characters, so in a way it could be based on him but it does not mean he is either hope or despair, just that its role name sounds like a hope role,.

Also let´s not discard the possibility of him lying to save himself, unless someone can come with proof of its veracity, and we all know the only way to know is to either lynch him or for him to be killed in the night.

 

[SalvaPot]

Or for Makai to get information on someone else and that information to be true later on (And even then we have to take into account how he got this information, yadaydadyada)

This game is fun.

 

[CornBurrito]

>facepalm<

Mafia wouldn't even have had to have rolefished, you made it pretty obvious by saying "wait for information, wait for information" when it's obvious no ordinary town role would get super useful information - CornBurrito surmised as much some time ago and I've suspected similarly. You then ignored *multiple* prompts to act like a normal town and not like an idiot or a power role. Well, at least you didn't say what your role does, so thank heavens for small blessings. For the love of god though, if you're ever a power role again, please play like you would an ordinary town.

I'd like to thank you for saving me the trouble of having to quote myself.

But yeah, I'm a bit upset that my initial suspicions were correct. But new Town players that luck into PR roles seem to ALWAYS make the fucking mistake of thinking that they'll be able to use their power to ensure we'll never accidentally lynch a Town player. I did the same thing back when I played mafia on IRC when I was 14.

Makai, I can understand the frustration of having the potential to get 100% risk free results, and yet seeing everyone apparently needlessly taking risk, but Hope will still need to take risks. It is inevitable that we'll lynch a Hope player and those lynches still have value.

 

[CornBurrito]

Vote: Rest

Going back to my original vote. Hope will need a fucking miracle to win now that two of our members have blown their PR loads all over Despair's face.

 

[kgtrep]

Taking a short break from meeting. Can we trust that Makai is town-aligned though? We know there is another ultimate lucky student in DR2.

 

[Zippedpinhead]

I think makai is roleclaiming something that town can't possibly kill by abusing the source material.

And he is right, I can't in good conscience vote for what he is saying he is as a hope student.

I'm going to re read and see if I can agree with the rest vote...

 

[CornBurrito]

Actually I need to bring something up. NOW.

My initial thoughts on Makai

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=173943459&postcount=545
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=173943639&postcount=546

When I (apparently correctly) surmised Makai was a Hope PR I was talked out of thinking so by Crab.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=173947095&postcount=559

Who has been acting as Hope Leader.

But in

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=174311094&postcount=905

Crab claims he actually shared my suspicions after a point.

Weird. Crab, you shared my suspicions but then did everything in your power to push Makai into a corner?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=174287415&postcount=852

Hell you shared my suspicion that Makai was a Hope PR and yet STILL fucking voted for him?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=174250917&postcount=830

And then after your vote Sawneeks joins in:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=174287313&postcount=851

And then francop:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=174291144&postcount=860

Now this doesn't say too much about Sawneeks or francop since to be honest most of us see you as the Hope leader. Me seeing you as leader is what led me to also switch my vote to Makai.

But gee, this does seem like the perfect chance for Despair to lead the bandwagon against a Hope PR.

Everyone, I'd be extremely suspect of Crab, Sawneeks, and francop. I don't know if I will survive the night. But PLEASE for the love of god keep my post in mind.

 

[CornBurrito]

I'm going to give Crab the benefit of the doubt for now. But I'm testing my hypothesis out.

Vote: franconp

 

[Terrabyte20xx]

Everyone, I'd be extremely suspect of Crab, Sawneeks, and francop. I don't know if I will survive the night. But PLEASE for the love of god keep my post in mind.

Anyone as skilled and versed in this game as Crab is should always have a gigantic eye of skepticism. If there was ever someone who was best equipped to fly under the radar, it's Crab.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Last update before the end.

From now on, so as to avoid clutter, I'm not going to be posting decisions with 0 votes on them. If you want to see voting history, consult the spreadsheet in the third post of the thread.

Time Remaining in the Day Phase:

Current votes
(12 votes needed for majority):
Names with a strike voted, and then unvoted.

AbsolutBro (1)
swamped
Terrabyte20xx
CornBurrito
*Splinter
ViviOggi
goshujinsama

Ty4on (1)
Crab
*Splinter
Zippedpinhead
franconp

ViviOggi (2)
BarryLocke
kingkitty
Crab

Rest (3)
Sawneeks
Kalor
kingkitty
Terrabyte20xx
CornBurrito
CornBurrito

Makai (1)
Crab
CzarTim
Zippedpinhead
Pau
Crab
Sawneeks
franconp
CornBurrito

kingkitty (3)
AbsolutBro
CzarTim
CornBurrito
ViviOggi
Rest
Hagi

Hagi (2)
Sawneeks
swamped
kgtrep

Terrabyte20xx (1)
Sawneeks
*Splinter

Zippedpinhead (1)
Terrabyte20xx

franconp (1)
CornBurrito

No Punishment (2)
Makai
SalvaPot
Ty4on

Just a reminder, we are playing with a plurality - meaning if one decision has more votes than any other at the end of the Day Phase, that is the decision that goes into effect.

Also, let me know if I made a mistake. It's a little tricky keeping track of votes.

 

[CornBurrito]

Anyone as skilled and versed in this game as Crab is should always have a gigantic eye of skepticism. If there was ever someone who was best equipped to fly under the radar, it's Crab.

This game also seems to have a large number of newer players. Perhaps that could be why Crab is going for a risky Despair Hope Leader strategy.

I urge anyone that is aligned with Hope to vote for Crab or franconp. Or Sawneeks.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

>facepalm<

"fly under the rader"

motherfucker it's Dfucking1 and you're already looking at me. If I wanted to fly under the radar, I'd have like 20 less posts and not be leading. Do you have any idea how difficult it would be as scum to try and be the town leader all the way from D1 irself to end-game? Also, if I was scum, my first #1 piece of advice/instruction-you-do-not-breach-on-death would be "never vote with your partners". Again, it's D1. We've had votes on over 10 different people today. Whoever gets lynched will get lynched on like 5 votes. Mafia doesn't even need to vote for whoever gets lynched today, they just need to sit back and watch, preferably all voting for different people and laughing at the Hope players who actually think mafia would bother to concern themselves heavily with D1.

We have genuine to goodness scummy players like ViviOggi, and you're pushing on me, and apparently francop and Sawneeks because they followed me? Why not CzarTim or Pau, who've also voted Makai? Clue: lots of people voted Makai (in fact, more than any other player) because he played really badly.

Let's be real here: ViviOggi has less than 20 posts, in which he says nothing of value and hedges on everything. I have 60 posts in which in every single one I'm constantly telling you how I'm thinking and putting myself on the line. Don't do exactly what the SW people did last game and lynch people who talk a lot on D1, the mafia is almost *never them*.

 

[Pau]

I guess yeah, even if Makai is lying (which I'm leaning towards) or it's not a Hope role, we should wait to verify.

Unvote: Makai

I've singled out SalvaPot before because of the no punishment stance, but outside of that he doesn't strike me as particularly untrustworthy? If he is town, hopefully he's not a PR. I don't think he would be singling himself out with a no punishment vote if he were a PR but then why would he if he was mafia? At the end of the day, he hasn't been able to convince anyone else to change to no punishment so someone is going to die (unless there's a tie.) So my question is Salva, what do you plan on doing if there is the chance for you to force a tie?