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[LaunchpadMcQ]

I gave him 48 hours to respond or post. It's up to you guys if you want to vote him or not if he doesn't check in.

 

[Rest]

Just take a day out of the night phase. It's not like we need them

"We?" Who's we?

I can confirm I'm Hope (not that you have any reason to believe me), but if Czar is telling the truth then there's a simple check:

Vote: Pau

One of two things will happen: Pau is Despair and I feel like shit for ever doubting Czar. (that insane post of mine, with all the fucked up line breaks? Read closely)

Option two: Pau is hope, so you kill me (feel real bad about it) and then kill Czar.

IF Czar is hope, Pau won't be.

This was a terrible plan. At this point it seems to have no traction, but I need to point something out.

People have mentioned that CzarTim could be playing a dangerous gambit if he's Despair. In giving away information he draws attention to himself. But since he vouches for AbsoutBro, voting for Pau tells us nothing. If we were to gain anything from a plan like this, we would have to vote for CzarTim first, because that would tell us a bit about the possibilities of AbsolutBro's alignment. If CzarTim flipped Hope, we could believe AbsolutBro was too. If he was Despair, we should look at AbsolutBro with suspicion. In neither case would we get any information about Pau.

Logic would say that if CzarTim is making a risky play, it would be foolish to have another mafioso back him. However, AbsolutBro made this suggestion of voting for Pau, and I haven't seen anyone mention that we should not vote for Pau first of the three. I have seen people say that we'd need to vote for the other two as well, but it's been posed as an afterthought.

I want to put forth the possibility that if they are both Despair, they were trying to manipulate a vote on Pau. By the lack of analysis that I've seen of what we would get from a lynching based on this plan, they could have been partially successful.

That said though, I'm glad to see some pressure on Makai. At this point, he's who I'd put my vote on, but only because I don't feel there's enough on anyone else. I still feel like we're scrambling for information, with the duel day 2 and the site outage yesterday I think we've lost a lot of time, and a lot of potential information.

 

[Sawneeks]

Throwing in my 2 cents but I honestly believe Pau, Tim, and AB are Hope. At first I didn't trust Tim but after repeated mentions of Fight Club ( first rule, guys ) and more activity on Day 2 my opinion shifted. I'm actually surprised to see more people didn't understand that reference and it was actually why I would repeat/joke about it, hoping more people would see it and the rule would stick. They know who they are, but they have to stay safe. But because I trust Tim, I also trust AB to an extent. It could be that someone, possibly Salva, switched AB with another person during the night and Tim, not knowing of this, actually looked at someone else who was Hope and leaving Scum-AB free to be scummy. But seeing as that chance might be slim-to-none, I'm more inclined to trust Tim and AB.

As for Pau I will admit she was more of a blank slate to me up until today. I did notice she was more quiet than everyone but hey, I am also fairly quiet myself. So far everything she has said today makes me believe she is Hope, one who didn't expect to be targeted and is trying her best to counter peoples claims. 'Scrambling' feels like the right word to use and it's why I am hesitant to really vote for her today.

Knowing the question is coming, if I had to start pointing fingers at people my gut is leaning towards Makai and Kalor. I am awaiting Makai's response to the current questions aimed at him because, depending on the answer, it could mean multiple things. Kalor has also been bugging me; quiet, a few things here and there but nothing super concrete. It has bugged me since Day 1.

The Rest thing was not a true flip flop. I could have sworn that Crab had scumread Rest. I was convinced Crab was Despair. It was nearing the end of the voting period. If Rest ended up being Hope, it would have furthered my mistrust of Crab. If Rest was Despair (and he had other votes for him before I gave a vote), I would be able to trust Crab.

But then Crab said he in fact hoperead Rest. Which foiled that plan. So yeah, my memory being fucked and making a decision on that memory isn't exactly a flip flop of opinion.

Me canceling my vote against Crab was actually due to a flip flop in opinion, but I don't really think it was that bad of a flip flop.

I mean, flip flops aren't necessarily a bad thing but it just leaves people very skeptical of you and your claims. I still believe you are Hope but having you flip on votes last minute so many times has cast doubt on you, it makes me uncertain.

Also, question. You said that you had been suspicious of Crab for 1.5 days, are we talking real days or 'Mafia Days'? Because if you were suspicious of Crab for so long why did you trust his reads on Rest, thus using his judgement to sway your vote? If you didn't trust him I don't see why you would have trusted his judgement. Regardless of what Crab thought of Rest it shouldn't have swayed you THAT much. My confidence in you is starting to fall apart, Corn.

 

[CornBurrito]

Also, question. You said that you had been suspicious of Crab for 1.5 days, are we talking real days or 'Mafia Days'? Because if you were suspicious of Crab for so long why did you trust his reads on Rest, thus using his judgement to sway your vote? If you didn't trust him I don't see why you would have trusted his judgement. Regardless of what Crab thought of Rest it shouldn't have swayed you THAT much. My confidence in you is starting to fall apart, Corn.

Mafia days.

I outlined my reasoning long ago but I'll repost it.

1. Crab, in my memory, had scumread Rest.
2. Rest already had a couple votes.
3. There were roughly 25-30 minutes left before the Day1 end.
4. The only other viable target at the time was Hagi who also had a number of votes for him.

Based on these 4 things, I felt I'd get more information from Rest dying than from Hagi dying. If Rest was Despair, Crab would 100% certainly not be Despair. Otherwise I could hold on to my suspicions.

However Premise 1 was false, and thus voting Rest would have given me just as little information as Hagi's death.

 

[Sawneeks]

Mafia days.

I outlined my reasoning long ago but I'll repost it.

1. Crab, in my memory, had scumread Rest.
2. Rest already had a couple votes.
3. There were roughly 25-30 minutes left before the Day1 end.
4. The only other viable target at the time was Hagi who also had a number of votes for him.

Based on these 4 things, I felt I'd get more information from Rest dying than from Hagi dying. If Rest was Despair, Crab would 100% certainly not be Despair. Otherwise I could hold on to my suspicions.

However Premise 1 was false, and thus voting Rest would have given me just as little information as Hagi's death.

Voting Rest would have still given you info on Crab if that was your main goal. If Rest flipped Hope then Crab has good reads, if Rest flipped Despair if opened up the possibility of Crab being Despair or not having solid reads.

Honestly though, it feels like you were leaning on Crab in order to use him as a cop-out. If Rest was voted off and flipped Hope you could have easily hid behind 'well Crab thought he was Despair so it's his fault!' but because Crab corrected you and brought it to attention you could no longer feasibly hide behind it because everyone knew. So you backed out, leaving you without any involvement in the lynching Day 1 vote and without any blame either way.

 

[Sawneeks]

Also since you didn't trust Crab even towards the end of Day 1 I still don't understand why you would use his reads to judge who you should vote on. With the people I don't currently trust here I take what they say with a grain of salt, let alone base my votes on what they say.

 

[CornBurrito]

Voting Rest would have still given you info on Crab if that was your main goal. If Rest flipped Hope then Crab has good reads, if Rest flipped Despair if opened up the possibility of Crab being Despair or not having solid reads.

Honestly though, it feels like you were leaning on Crab in order to use him as a cop-out. If Rest was voted off and flipped Hope you could have easily hid behind 'well Crab thought he was Despair so it's his fault!' but because Crab corrected you and brought it to attention you could no longer feasibly hide behind it because everyone knew. So you backed out, leaving you without any involvement in the lynching Day 1 vote and without any blame either way.

Yeah you got me. I so badly wanted Rest out which is why I've continued to target him every single day, and why I didn't cancel my vote after finding out I was wrong.

Oh wait...

And if Rest flipped Hope that wouldn't give me good information. Crab being able to hoperead people wouldn't be shocking if he was Despair.

 

[CornBurrito]

Also since you didn't trust Crab even towards the end of Day 1 I still don't understand why you would use his reads to judge who you should vote on. With the people I don't currently trust here I take what they say with a grain of salt, let alone base my votes on what they say.

I didn't trust Crab. He, in my mind, scumread Rest.

If I got Rest voted out and he indeed flipped Despair, that would mean my mistrust in Crab would be misplaced. That's valuable to check considering how many people valued his opinions on D1 and the fact that he was basically village leader on D1.

If Rest flipped Hope, I'd continue to mistrust him. It was a far better vote for me than Hagi, but only IF Crab scumread Rest.

That isn't using Crab's reads to judge who I should vote for. That was me putting his reads to the test, in order to see if I could trust him.

 

[Sawneeks]

Yeah you got me. I so badly wanted Rest out which is why I've continued to target him every single day, and why I didn't cancel my vote after finding out I was wrong.

Oh wait...

And if Rest flipped Hope that wouldn't give me good information. Crab being able to hoperead people wouldn't be shocking if he was Despair.

Still haven't answered me as to why Crab was the deciding factor of your vote given you didn't trust him. Whether you tailed Rest or not now isn't relevant, I'm talking about Day 1.

 

[Sawneeks]

And of course as I type you reply, haha. Give me a second.

 

[Sawneeks]

I didn't trust Crab. He, in my mind, scumread Rest.

If I got Rest voted out and he indeed flipped Despair, that would mean my mistrust in Crab would be misplaced. That's valuable to check considering how many people valued his opinions on D1 and the fact that he was basically village leader on D1.

If Rest flipped Hope, I'd continue to mistrust him. It was a far better vote for me than Hagi, but only IF Crab scumread Rest.

That isn't using Crab's reads to judge who I should vote for. That was me putting his reads to the test, in order to see if I could trust him.

That's the answer I was looking for!

I'm still very iffy because of the lack of committed votes but your reasoning for why you did that on Day 1 is solid and I'm satisfied. For now I don't have any more questions but these are the kind of answers people need to start giving when questioned. Explain your reasoning guys, it helps more than you think. Thanks Corn.

 

[*Splinter]

Update to my reads post:

Missing out Sawneeks was unfair. Her posts are always detailed and well thought out, she also responded well when I questioned her on something in D2. Hope.

 

[Pau]

I understand, but surely there must be people on your scum list due to the content of their posts, and not just because they appeared on the map?

I'm doing it in player order so that people won't read into who I'm picked based on who I have or have not seen.

Rest: I think his suspicions of Crab and kingkitty D1 were reasonable. Was willing to look at the map before CzarTim's reveal/information dump. I think he's made a good analysis of my situation today - but I'm biased. I can't see him doing that unless he's playing Despair good cop.

Sawneeks: Posts a lot about being blindsided by developments. I don't think that's necessarily a Despair only tactic because to be honest I'm confused about most people too. She does ask good questions, so I think she's helpful for Hope.

CornBurrito: I don't trust his reads or intuition at all. He tunnels in on people and only seems to be convinced of their alignment if their thinking mirrors his own. Which is useful if you want to be able to rally votes together, but I don't think anything besides a role reveal would convince him today about my alignment. Which is dangerous. Could be role fishing. I would be curious to his reaction to my role reveal and if it would change the way he thinks about going after certain players.

ViviOggi: Middle to lower impact player. Willing to post reads on everyone even if some reads are stronger than others. (I don't think that's a point against him, there are quite a few people flying under the radar.) I'm unsure. His suspicions list isn't unreasonable (Rest, myself, Crab, Barrylocke, Makai) but does lean heavily on possible/known PRs and people on the end of the posting spectrums (Crab/Barrylocke).

*Splinter: Able to catch inconsistencies (such as the conversation with Sawneeks). I think that's ultimately good for Hope, even if it can be a distraction tactic by Despair.

I agree it would be useful to know who Pau targeted (although not why or what her role is, obviously, just so we have a clearer picture of what is going on.

That being said, if she doesn't give a little more insight into which hallway she saw salva on night 2 I'm voting for her.

Are you two convinced that the information will help you more than it will help Despair? If the answer is yes, then I'll say it.

 

[Zippedpinhead]

Pau, ultimately this is your call. BUT If you already walked past someone who is despair then they already know this information.

 

[Sawneeks]

I have to head out for a few hours and won't be able to respond, but

Pau, ultimately this is your call. BUT If you already walked past someone who is despair then they already know this information.

It is also unknown if Pau walked by anyone and it would be impossible to know if this person is Despair or not. I would not risk a reveal on something as trivial as that. I would only recommend a reveal if it is indisputable evidence against a Mafia member OR if you are 1 vote away from being lynched. At the moment it is neither.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I have to head out for a few hours and won't be able to respond, but



It is also unknown if Pau walked by anyone and it would be impossible to know if this person is Despair or not. I would not risk a reveal on something as trivial as that. I would only recommend a reveal if it is indisputable evidence against a Mafia member OR if you are 1 vote away from being lynched. At the moment it is neither.

Pau isn't being asked to say if she met anyone (and I would strongly advise her *not* to reveal it if she did), but instead who she targeted - i.e., which direction she travelled in. It helps us work out more about what SalvaPot was doing.

 

[Pau]

Pau, ultimately this is your call. BUT If you already walked past someone who is despair then they already know this information.

There's a chance I might not have walked past Despair in which case the information would be revealing.

Unfortunately, everyone has to be careful with their questions of the rule breakers and we have to be careful of our answers.

 

[Ty4on]

That being said, if she doesn't give a little more insight into which hallway she saw salva on night 2 I'm voting for her.

I'm assuming you don't get to find out where you saw them. Czar only mentioned a list.

As for fight club, essentially at night when you perform an action, you pass people in the hallway. You get a list of all people you pass. i.e. fight club

"We?" Who's we?

Hope. It was a joke on giving Despair less time to plan out their attacks
Though as hope it is nice to be able to make reads on a dead thread without having to keep up. Speaking of analysis:

This was a terrible plan. At this point it seems to have no traction, but I need to point something out.

People have mentioned that CzarTim could be playing a dangerous gambit if he's Despair. In giving away information he draws attention to himself. But since he vouches for AbsoutBro, voting for Pau tells us nothing. If we were to gain anything from a plan like this, we would have to vote for CzarTim first, because that would tell us a bit about the possibilities of AbsolutBro's alignment. If CzarTim flipped Hope, we could believe AbsolutBro was too. If he was Despair, we should look at AbsolutBro with suspicion. In neither case would we get any information about Pau.

Logic would say that if CzarTim is making a risky play, it would be foolish to have another mafioso back him. However, AbsolutBro made this suggestion of voting for Pau, and I haven't seen anyone mention that we should not vote for Pau first of the three. I have seen people say that we'd need to vote for the other two as well, but it's been posed as an afterthought.

I want to put forth the possibility that if they are both Despair, they were trying to manipulate a vote on Pau. By the lack of analysis that I've seen of what we would get from a lynching based on this plan, they could have been partially successful.

That said though, I'm glad to see some pressure on Makai. At this point, he's who I'd put my vote on, but only because I don't feel there's enough on anyone else. I still feel like we're scrambling for information, with the duel day 2 and the site outage yesterday I think we've lost a lot of time, and a lot of potential information.

That's good stuff and I agree. It's not a complete theory, but we can't rely on that when we know so little for sure.

Czar's reveal wasn't very beneficial to hope. Ok, we know that rule breakers get a list of the people they spot, but it probably makes it too easy if we were to see the killers so we're back to square one. He can confirm AB is hope and AB had some pressure applied to him, but wasn't close to being lynched.
Now what...

If this is a coordinated attempt it's incredibly risky, but a bit too convenient.

• This was not discussed on D2 for obvious reasons.
• If Czar isn't killed at night it's because his ability is a one shot.
• For AB he the reason is he's a sleepwalker.
• Considering no one else has come forth it is possible the only still alive people who saw Czar were AB and Pau. The fourth being Salva. Of Pau and Salva: Pau is much more likely to be the killer from her proximity. In the hypothetical scenario where Salva survived and is the target; Pau would probably defend him saying she hadn't seen him (read AB and Pau's posts and it's clear, though unwritten, neither saw Salva N1). If Pau were lynched someone else likely saw Salva and could chime in and question why he took such a strange route.
• AB is the one being suspicious. He acted strange D2 and accidentally role claimed Pau. Thankfully Czar confirmed he is hope. From Czar's point of view: why protect AB more than himself?

I was happy Crab noticed that last point:

I agree it would be useful to know who Pau targeted (although not why or what her role is, obviously, just so we have a clearer picture of what is going on. I also agree that having both a Ninja and a Godfather in the same setup would be really, really difficult for town, so if I trust Czar, I am inclined to trust AbsolutBro as well. Note that doesn't work in reverse.

It has bothered me as well. Lying or holding things back makes sense here. As a power role you obviously want to survive.

Anyway Czar,
VOTE: CzarTim
Why did you role claim? AB wasn't under any big pressure from hope (at least as I could see) and it would immediately make you and AB more likely targets by Despair. AB revealed Pau, but it could have been much worse if more people had chimed in. I'm pretty sure it's quite common for more people to chime in when you say what your power role has revealed and explain a game mechanic.

 

[CornBurrito]

Pau, I claimed on D2 before I even knew about fight club that you were a target of mine. How the fuck am I role fishing by acting on my D2 pre fight club suspicions? Unless voting for anyone is literally role fishing.

 

[Kalor]

Why did you role claim? AB wasn't under any big pressure from hope (at least as I could see) and it would immediately make you and AB more likely targets by Despair. AB revealed Pau, but it could have been much worse if more people had chimed in. I'm pretty sure it's quite common for more people to chime in when you say what your power role has revealed and explain a game mechanic.

Their explanation of claiming so we would know how the night mechanics seemed legitimate to me. Now that we know how these mechanics work we can account for it.

 

[Pau]

Pau, I claimed on D2 before I even knew about fight club that you were a target of mine. How the fuck am I role fishing by acting on my D2 pre fight club suspicions? Unless voting for anyone is literally role fishing.

Because now you have more information about me. Or are you going to pretend that today didn't happen at all? Do you really think that's reasonable?

I have no idea what would actually convince you that I'm a Hope PR if you're just going to ignore information today.

 

[Ty4on]

Their explanation of claiming so we would know how the night mechanics seemed legitimate to me. Now that we know how these mechanics work we can account for it.

How does it help us if Despair likely has a ninja role?
I think the best would be discussing who saw Salva as one of them is probably Despair, but that would require even more reveals.

 

[sandalphon]

Actually, yes you did. I need to go back and find it but on Day 1 you did talk a lot about 'we will get new info tonight' and 'just wait till we know more'. It could easily just be a scum tactic to push things away without giving an answer or you have an investigation role that would allow you to look at someone. I'm going to make some leaps here, but if you DID have an investigation role I will assume the person you have been against this whole game is the person you looked at, aka Crab. If the reason you are against Crab is because of whatever your investigation revealed, why keep quiet? If you found incriminating evidence against Crab then why keep quiet, especially on Day 2 when it was only Kgtrep or Crab? You would have put yourself up for the chopping block but you would have also successfully been able to take down a member of the Mafia, a powerful one at that.

My only gut feeling is that you are lying about having any sort of role only to save yourself and it's starting to fall apart.

I'm keeping my vote on TL21 until I get some responses from him but you are really not making a good case for yourself here Makai.

This is a very good pick up, I believe. Keen observation made on solid assumptions that were created by the original poster. If indeed Makai's role has any investigatory powers, would there be any reasons not to have used these investigatory powers on Crab? And if he has investigated Crab, then this is a pertinent information for Hope.

I have not been able to gain any strong Despair reads from anyone, I have to admit that my current list of players is a let down for myself. I will post it regardless soon, but I believe at this juncture we simply lack information or participation to make good reads.

Likely, the wind has been knocked out of some of us by Day 2's duel, but Hope will need to shake off the slumber soon and rejoin the game. The more discussion we have, the better we can generate a more robust data base of each player's thoughts and reads.

Awaiting Launch's decision for the extra day and for Barrylocke's fate, for now I will use my vote as such:

Vote: kingkitty

Would like to hear more from kingkitty. He has participated and posted throughout all the Day phases to date but he has generated little to no information on his stances. Not a hard vote.

 

[AbsolutBro]

How does it help us if Despair likely has a ninja role?
I think the best would be discussing who saw Salva as one of them is probably Despair, but that would require even more reveals.

We don't know that there IS a ninja.

Every time we pass someone they could be going anywhere. Everyone that we pass could be Hope or Despair. Normally there's not really any way to tell, because there is no way to match a person with an action. If I had gone anywhere OTHER than Franconp's, I would have had no reason to suspect Pau or Czar. If ANYONE else had died, I would have no reason to suspect Pau or Czar. Instead, the person whose room I wandered into died and only two people were visible during the trip. It was a freak coincidence, but one we should use to our advantage.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Awaiting Launch's decision for the extra day and for Barrylocke's fate...

The extra day is up to you guys. I was just saying that I would rather do a full 24 hours extra for this day phase than anything else because of the time of day being easier for me to do updates. Also, I know this is about the best time during the day for everyone to be around, more or less.

 

[sandalphon]

The extra day is up to you guys. I was just saying that I would rather do a full 24 hours extra for this day phase than anything else because of the time of day being easier for me to do updates. Also, I know this is about the best time during the day for everyone to be around, more or less.

Then let us see a show of hands of those of us who would like to extend Day 3 by 24 hours.

I am in favour for an extension. We have not yielded adequate reads thus far due to GAF being down and low participation rates. A further 24 hours may provide additional discussion points and space to hold those discussions in.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

I wasn't suggesting 24 hours so we get extra time but as compensation for GAF going down. It should be the moderator's call and not our own in the interests of fairness, I think.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

I wasn't suggesting 24 hours so we get extra time but as compensation for GAF going down. It should be the moderator's call and not our own in the interests of fairness, I think.

Specifically what I'm asking is if people felt like the downtime negatively affected gameplay, which in your particular case I know it did.

 

[Ty4on]

Specifically what I'm asking is if people felt like the downtime negatively affected gameplay, which in your particular case I know it did.

Hard to say. Both yes and no.

It's a bit like getting an extension on your essay. You're not going to go from E to A in that extra day.

 

[Makai]

No, I've inferred it from the fact you spent all of day 1 going "but muh informations", implying your role is one which you get information from. There are close to no information-giving roles that don't target.

CzarTim, AbsolutBro and Pau just gave us exactly the kind I wanted to jump off from. CzarTim and AbsolutBro are almost certainly town. And based on AbsolutBro's testimony, Pau has a good likelihood of being Despair. We also got to see your true colors after my reveal. After that Day 2 performance, there is no possibility of you being Town. I'm still amazed that actually worked. Congrats.

VOTE: Makai

I am literally done with him being a complete and total deadweight on town.

Of course you're voting for me. AbsolutBro gives us a compelling reason to lynch your buddy and you immediately deflect to me. You have wanted to knock me out since Night 1 but kgtrep foiled you. Well, here we are on Day 3. How about you make a real case for why Pau's life is worth more than mine? I especially like the feigned frustration. You're trying to plant the idea that if I'm not Despair, I am so awful I deserve to die anyway. You love doing this. You want to be the driving force for me death and then wash your hands of it when I flip Hope. Oops!

Tim/Makai did you see each other in the hallway or not? Or is there a good reason not to answer this?

There's a few negative reprucussions to discussing hallway activity. The main reason is I don't want to provide information that narrows down my role. A lot of you are assuming that I am an investigatory role, and I very well might be, but it is premature for me to disclose that. Much better to leave scum in the dark. Just look at how perturbed Crab gets when he fails to get me to tell him what I am. Crab's problem is he is so arrogant to think he can get town to lynch me instead of just offing me the old fashioned way. He might want to hurry it up.

I will make an exception for CzarTim. I am as certain that CzarTim is Hope as I am certain that Crab is Despair. I trust his opinion much more than anyone else and I'll testify on hallway activity if he thinks it will help us out.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Ok, I decided no extra time will be added.

 

[CornBurrito]

Because now you have more information about me. Or are you going to pretend that today didn't happen at all? Do you really think that's reasonable?

I have no idea what would actually convince you that I'm a Hope PR if you're just going to ignore information today.

Fair enough. But why did your posting habits change so much between before D3 and now? Simply because of the fight club reveal is something I don't buy.

 

[*Splinter]

Fair enough. But why did your posting habits change so much between before D3 and now? Simply because of the fight club reveal is something I don't buy.

Why not?

 

[Rest]

Specifically what I'm asking is if people felt like the downtime negatively affected gameplay, which in your particular case I know it did.

It did for me. I couldn't access GAF at all yesterday.

 

[Pau]

Fair enough. But why did your posting habits change so much between before D3 and now? Simply because of the fight club reveal is something I don't buy.

Because I have more to say. Is it really that strange to think not everyone has 20 posts worth of valuable information/insight on the first two days? (One of which I had to be careful about outing myself and certain players.)

 

[CzarTim]

I haven't fully caught up with today's posts yet, but I'll answer Ty4on and other's questions real quick. I don't mind people being skeptical, this is a game of mafia after all. Unfortunately there's no actual way to prove my role until I flip, but I'll point out a couple of things:

- I breadcrumbed my result long before AB posted his message, and iirc before he had even posted at all on day two. So the idea that this could be a reaction to the way he was acting is simply untrue. tbh I did not pick up on his message at all (like I said, I'm terrible at picking up on that stuff), and I thought he was just fucking with me calling me despair because I was fucking with him the same way. It's hilarious to me that I was spending all day yesterday trying to get suspicion off AB when he was trying to get it on me lol

- I don't see why I shouldn't have come forward with this information today. AB may not have been close to getting lynched, but why waste a day talking about someone I could easily clear? I mean I had a one-shot, it's not like my role is still useful. There was no reason for me to sit on this info at this point. I did not reveal that I passed AB or anyone else in the hallway, I did not allude that he had a PR. I simply confirmed his alignment. I was worried I'd paint a target on his back, which is why I didn't say anything yesterday, but if I had been nk'd would anyone have picked up that I used it on AB? Might as well get it out of the way. If I die first you'll now have a confirmed townie.

- gosh's vote on me did not lead me to claim, I was planning on doing that anyway. The only reason I delayed was because I was legit busy this weekend and knew people would have follow up questions and I didn't want to just drop that bomb and vanish. If I had realized AB was actually suspicious of me I would have revealed the info at the start of the day since I wouldn't have wanted him to reveal that he was (from my perspective) a power role.

- I revealed the map mechanic because people kept bringing it up and as a 1-shot I felt it gave me the unique position to explain it without revealing anything. I didn't expect anything to come out of that info, I was more just saying "hey here's how this works, it might be useful later."

- I think it's unfair to blame me for all these people getting revealed because I explicitly asked everyone to keep quiet. Like how is it my fault people other people talked?

 

[Rest]

CzarTim, AbsolutBro and Pau just gave us exactly the kind I wanted to jump off from. CzarTim and AbsolutBro are almost certainly town. And based on AbsolutBro's testimony, Pau has a good likelihood of being Despair. We also got to see your true colors after my reveal. After that Day 2 performance, there is no possibility of you being Town. I'm still amazed that actually worked. Congrats.

I can't see any bloodlust for Crab today. If you keep hammering him when no one is interested, people aren't going to listen to you when there is some momentum against him.

 

[Makai]

I can't see any bloodlust for Crab today. If you keep hammering him when no one is interested, people aren't going to listen to you when there is some momentum against him.

I'm pushing for Pau. I just want Crab to tell me why I shouldn't.

 

[Ty4on]

Speaking of analysis:
*STUFF*

Crap, I forgot the last point.

[Roleclaim] in the first post I mentioned fight club (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=174796536&postcount=1381) First letter of each sentence is AB NS (not suspicious).
[...]

Like I said for you, the thought that you went into my room didn't occur to me, so I assumed you killed Fran. I even said as much, TWICE:

nah man, it's totally me, czar. I killed Franconp, you should totally lynch me D3.

CornBurrito
Zippedpinhead
A Human Becoming/Ty4on
Rest

kgtrep k
ingkitty ANuclearError/T
L21xx Ka
Lor

Franconp - Dead. Included for completeness.


That's a lot harder than it really seems at first glance.

Cool coincidence that both of them would hide messages in D2 posts. It doesn't prove anything, but it made me link AB and Czar together. Both of them also felt like mentioning it without anyone pressing them to prove what they had seen.

 

[CornBurrito]

We don't know that there IS a ninja.

Every time we pass someone they could be going anywhere. Everyone that we pass could be Hope or Despair. Normally there's not really any way to tell, because there is no way to match a person with an action. If I had gone anywhere OTHER than Franconp's, I would have had no reason to suspect Pau or Czar. If ANYONE else had died, I would have no reason to suspect Pau or Czar. Instead, the person whose room I wandered into died and only two people were visible during the trip. It was a freak coincidence, but one we should use to our advantage.

Wait so you are claiming PR too? I thought Czar just inspected you and that was it.

Anyway Pau, you made fair points. Consider my case against you temporarily dropped.

 

[Ty4on]

- I don't see why I shouldn't have come forward with this information today. AB may not have been close to getting lynched, but why waste a day talking about someone I could easily clear? I mean I had a one-shot, it's not like my role is still useful. There was no reason for me to sit on this info at this point. I did not reveal that I passed AB or anyone else in the hallway, I did not allude that he had a PR. I simply confirmed his alignment. I was worried I'd paint a target on his back, which is why I didn't say anything yesterday, but if I had been nk'd would anyone have picked up that I used it on AB? Might as well get it out of the way. If I die first you'll now have a confirmed townie.

Mea culpa, I did not realize that.

Other than that thank you both for your replies.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

It did for me. I couldn't access GAF at all yesterday.

Yeah, sorry, but I think it'll be better this way.

 

[CzarTim]

Crap, I forgot the last point.



Cool coincidence that both of them would hide messages in D2 posts. It doesn't prove anything, but it made me link AB and Czar together. Both of them also felt like mentioning it without anyone pressing them to prove what they had seen.

I mean you are suggesting two of the four to five scum team members are going all in on a gambit for what reason? To get Pau lynched? We both knew she had a PR, we could just nk her if we knew she's town.

 

[Pau]

I mean you are suggesting two of the four to five scum team members are going all in on a gambit for what reason? To get Pau lynched? We both knew she had a PR, we could just nk her if we knew she's town.

This is true. I'm going to guess either AbsolutBro or I are the top targets for tonight. I can't say I trust you both 100% but I also can't say it's a super likely gambit. Which is why I'd rather focus elsewhere.

 

[Ty4on]

I mean you are suggesting two of the four to five scum team members are going all in on a gambit for what reason? To get Pau lynched? We both knew she had a PR, we could just nk her if we knew she's town.

I am a little crazy. If that was the plan though so far it has worked well.
I also wanted to see people's reactions and how you would defend yourself. I felt like you hadn't been applied any pressure.

 

[CornBurrito]

And people thought I was crazy for thinking Crab was mafia.

 

[AbsolutBro]

Crap, I forgot the last point.

Cool coincidence that both of them would hide messages in D2 posts. It doesn't prove anything, but it made me link AB and Czar together. Both of them also felt like mentioning it without anyone pressing them to prove what they had seen.

No one pressed me, but I thought I had basically nailed someone as Despair through plain dumb luck. I don't see how that is NOT worth mentioning. I mean, I was sure I was going to die last night; I wandered into the room of the guy who died. There is literally no way that Despair didn't see me. If you thought you were going to die, and thought you had a Despair dead to rights, do you keep your mouth shut?

Wait so you are claiming PR too? I thought Czar just inspected you and that was it.

Guys, we aren't going to get far if you aren't actually reading posts. I mean, I explicitly said so:

Without going into too much detail, my "PR" (if you can actually call it that) is sort of like a sleepwalker. I don't really control where I go, but I pass people. In a fuckin hysterical fit of bad luck, my first wander was into Franconp's room on N1, AKA the night Franconp died. I passed two people in the hall. I think you can guess who they were.

I even made a map!

This would be hilarious if it wasn't so frustrating. I assume sleepwalker roles like mine were put in place SPECIFICALLY to make sure that we couldn't just count on who we pass in the hallways. I'm basically there for Hope to see in the hallways; Despair know I'm not one of them, so it's not really going to fuck with them much. And sure, I can come out like I did today, but today's discussion proves exactly how fucking pointless that is. You all have no reason to believe me. I thought maybe with Czar's backing I could clear this up before it became a serious issue. Guess I was wrong.

 

[Rest]

No one pressed me, but I thought I had basically nailed someone as Despair through plain dumb luck. I don't see how that is NOT worth mentioning. I mean, I was sure I was going to die last night; I wandered into the room of the guy who died. There is literally no way that Despair didn't see me. If you thought you were going to die, and thought you had a Despair dead to rights, do you keep your mouth shut?

You know, I hadn't considered this that much. Assuming AbsolutBro isn't lying (and neither Pau nor CzarTim has denied what he said) a lynch of Pau would, I think, tell us if there is a stealth killer out. Unless Pau went right. That does assume that CzarTim actually went to AbsolutBro's room though.

I don't know if we should press for more information.

 

[CornBurrito]

Guys, we aren't going to get far if you aren't actually reading posts. I mean, I explicitly said so:

Huh. I somehow missed that post entirely.

 

[Ty4on]

Wait so you are claiming PR too? I thought Czar just inspected you and that was it.

Sorry for the snark, but you didn't have the ability to go back a few lines and read what he actually claimed? Most of it is at the end of page 21.