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Deleted member 13876
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What if...Frankencastle?
Daredevil's Charlie Cox announces filming date for The Defenders
- Thread starter Dalek
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What if...Frankencastle?
DarkJediKnight
Member
I agree. Only Marvel show where I couldn't finish. Got bored after the Kilgrave escape, and the Punisher on steroids cop angle.
NobleXenon
Member
Yeah, I've been hearing about this.
It was DD > JJ when it came to only season one; however, season two really dragged down DD to be lower than JJ overall. It now depends if JJ S2 can maintain or increase its quality.
MHWilliams
Member
Let's see.
Elektra is less a character than a manifestation of Matt's lean towards the dark side. (Karen is his lean in the other direction, but she gets a ton to do due to the Punisher plotline.) Elodie Yung does her best with the script and has amazing charisma, but in the end, she has absolutely no agency and is alternatively a lost little girl or femme fatale given what the scene requires from her. She's there to service Matt's arc, who's willing to throw away everything for his city, but also willing to run away from it at the drop of a hat?
Matt spends the season holding to a no-kill rule, only to throw it out at the end and be fine with himself and Frank taking out the bad guys, thus undercutting any moralization arguments he made earlier in season.
The entire Hand story essentially goes nowhere, because as I said, it's a set up for either a future season. Why do they need a big hole? What's the property for? They want Black Sky - which is Elektra - but her ultimate origins and potential powers are unclear. What's with the brainwashed kids? We got the Chaste and the Hand, both ill-defined groups fighting a secret war. There's nothing to hold onto there, it's just an excuse to fight ninjas.
The Punisher plot is the driving force of the show and every single time Elektra and the Hand appears, the entire show grinds to a complete halt. It's two plots fighting for control of a single season. Worse, once that Punisher is dealt with, we spend much of the Hand plotline lacking any real villain to hang our hats on. What are the stakes here? Nobu is no Fisk (or Punisher), because his motivations are fuzzy and cartoonish.
Matt spends the season holding to a no-kill rule, only to throw it out at the end and be fine with himself and Frank taking out the bad guys, thus undercutting any moralization arguments he made earlier in season.
The entire Hand story essentially goes nowhere, because as I said, it's a set up for either a future season. Why do they need a big hole? What's the property for? They want Black Sky - which is Elektra - but her ultimate origins and potential powers are unclear. What's with the brainwashed kids? We got the Chaste and the Hand, both ill-defined groups fighting a secret war. There's nothing to hold onto there, it's just an excuse to fight ninjas.
The Punisher plot is the driving force of the show and every single time Elektra and the Hand appears, the entire show grinds to a complete halt. It's two plots fighting for control of a single season. Worse, once that Punisher is dealt with, we spend much of the Hand plotline lacking any real villain to hang our hats on. What are the stakes here? Nobu is no Fisk (or Punisher), because his motivations are fuzzy and cartoonish.
DryEyeRelief
Member
My post to BKatastrophe is ringing true again.
"Oddly enough, this exploration of heroism is also at the heart of both seasons of Daredevil.)"
"many of the complaints can be equally applied to Daredevil."
These aren't the same complaints. This is just general mudslinging to bring Daredevil to the same level. Not to mention you're making a effort to use what unanimously is agreed as the worst part of the two seasons.
Look at Korey's post on the first page (which is from an entirely separate thread), and levy that onto Daredevil, because apparently the no-kill rule is an excuse for 13 hours of rampant stupidity. Alternatively, you can read the entire thread where that post came from.
That's not a plot contrivance which is the majority of the complaints people have about JJ. That's not undercutting because that implies there's a contradiction. That's rushed/mishandled character development. And this is giving leeway to the idea that its mishandled in the first place, ignoring scenes alluding to this change from earlier in the season.
The concept isn't horrible...
Although to be fair, I didn't really like Born Again that much, so maybe I just have shit taste.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
By all intents, it could have been really good. There was a lot of build up for the event that really felt natural, but then they just turned it into a generic "hero's being controlled and thus not really responsible for his actions" story.
Nah man, teenage Jessica Jones probably had a crush on five year old Parker.
weren't they in the same class? she was even there when he got bit by the spider
I need to see Iron Fist before I get excited for Defenders. Never been a big fan of Luke and the JJ show wasn't very good so only Danny and Misty can save this for me.
MHWilliams
Member
That only works well for the Punisher half of the season.
Ah, so you acknowledge that it was poorly plotted and written, but it's different... because?
I took care of parts of Korey's post on the first page. Let me finish the rest.
Why doesn't she know that Kilgrave's commands will never work on her again? Because to find that out, she'd have to put herself under the potential of Kilgrave's power. It's like seeing if you can fly by jumping out the window or testing being bulletproof by pointing a gun at your head. Only an idiot would do that.
And why doesn't she kill Kilgrave? Again, they establish that she has a certain view of heroism. It's only at the very end does she say "Fuck it, I'm not a hero." and discard that completely. That's a strong lynchpin of part of Korey's post, so we're done with that right?
The footage is literally as bad as Matt having no planning, not even a simple alarm, to walk him up for the trial of the century.
Jeri Hograth makes a stupid move because she believe Kilgrave can be reasoned with. Nothing more, nothing less.
And why doesn't she kill Kilgrave? Again, they establish that she has a certain view of heroism. It's only at the very end does she say "Fuck it, I'm not a hero." and discard that completely. That's a strong lynchpin of part of Korey's post, so we're done with that right?
The footage is literally as bad as Matt having no planning, not even a simple alarm, to walk him up for the trial of the century.
Jeri Hograth makes a stupid move because she believe Kilgrave can be reasoned with. Nothing more, nothing less.
Sans a strong villain to contrast against, Daredevil falls apart. The Hand part of this season is utterly hamfisted and Daredevil ends the season as the worst character in his own show.
Jessica Jones has issues, but on the whole, I'd slot it behind DD S1 and ahead of DD S2. A Season 2 just about the Punisher would've been perfect. That's not what we got.
Note, I'm not saying Jessica Jones is amazing, or it doesn't have real issues that I outlined. But I found those issues in Daredevil Season 2 as well. And given the reception, none of the Marvel shows come across like total dogshit.
Certainly nothing anywhere near the show you seem to be trying to relate to me.
I want to see this now.
exmachina64
Banned
That would be strange and not in the strange tales way
lolRest of the Defenders: "Red, don't do anything careless"
Daredevil:
That's even worse.
I cant believe I just read through ALL the thread.
Some of the complaints...absolutely weird. You guys seem to be conditioned to perfection as in bland, never making mistake type characters.
Hyping that one huge ass rant about "WHY DO NOT YOU KILL KILGRAVE ALREADY" as some sort of criticism holy grail is very troubling.
Why? Because: a flawed character is not a bad character.
I see many, many posts in a similar vein when it came to Laurel in Arrow's season 2-3 and Thea in arrow season one. The reasoning there was that "this is not a show about alcoholism and failing, we want to see super heroes". Guess what: Jessica Jones is not about a show revolving around perfect superheroes. Deal with it.
And I still hold to the view that people generally either forgot or were conditioned to dislike some of the classic literature of the past when these kind of misguided character decisions were good driving forces for whole books. Sin and punishment? What would it get from today's GAF if in movie form? "Damn man, you are one weak-ass mother*****, just commit the crime and act cool so we can have GIF's of it!".
It is a troubling trend, to say the least.
Some of the complaints...absolutely weird. You guys seem to be conditioned to perfection as in bland, never making mistake type characters.
Hyping that one huge ass rant about "WHY DO NOT YOU KILL KILGRAVE ALREADY" as some sort of criticism holy grail is very troubling.
Why? Because: a flawed character is not a bad character.
I see many, many posts in a similar vein when it came to Laurel in Arrow's season 2-3 and Thea in arrow season one. The reasoning there was that "this is not a show about alcoholism and failing, we want to see super heroes". Guess what: Jessica Jones is not about a show revolving around perfect superheroes. Deal with it.
And I still hold to the view that people generally either forgot or were conditioned to dislike some of the classic literature of the past when these kind of misguided character decisions were good driving forces for whole books. Sin and punishment? What would it get from today's GAF if in movie form? "Damn man, you are one weak-ass mother*****, just commit the crime and act cool so we can have GIF's of it!".
It is a troubling trend, to say the least.
That article in (German newspaper) Zeit is a thing of art. For example, did you know that shows like Jessica Jones actually apparently somehow solidify inequality? By the way, Master of None also apparently also got better reviews because we are all just celebrating our own liberality.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Now I'm confused about how they completely dropped that subplot.
I have a feeling that if Jessica were less flawed, people would be calling her a Mary Sue.
It's a shame there's so much hyperbole about the show because it makes it difficult (though not impossible) to have a discussion of its flaws.
That's not a subplot, that's a concussion. Which had repercussions later when
Punisher captures him after that happens again
DryEyeRelief
Member
I would put Jessica Jones on par with Arrow Season 3, so I guess it's not far off.
You want a quality discussion but you throw at an ad hominem attack.
Everyone who doesn't like JJ is a sexist who can't appreciate female characters.
https://twitter.com/SeasonZeroCom/status/720164476163649537?s=03
Supposedly, Defenders filming will take place from late August to October.
Supposedly, Defenders filming will take place from late August to October.
http://marvel.com/news/tv/26037/netflix_original_series_marvels_the_defenders_finds_its_showrunners
Douglas Petrie and Marco Ramirez, the Daredevil S2 showrunners will be the showrunners for the Defenders. Also Drew Goddard will be an executive producer.
So it looks like Defenders will be pretty Daredevil centric then.
Douglas Petrie and Marco Ramirez, the Daredevil S2 showrunners will be the showrunners for the Defenders. Also Drew Goddard will be an executive producer.
So it looks like Defenders will be pretty Daredevil centric then.
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