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[Bacon_Boss]

So I'm giving this game another shot. My laptop is not the greatest, but it certainly runs the game decently. My problem is, and this is probably coincidence, each time I got past the copse the thing would literally tear itself apart. Like the hinge would bust off the base, ripping the bottom panel off and shaking the fan loose.

So I'm past the copse again and I'm rocking a great sword +5, a great shield and the armor off the blue covenant dude. So far everything is getting crushed. How long until I reach some horrible plague inducing beast or a one shot wizard. Is this build something I can beat the game with? I've got 30str 29 but 18 dex and everything else is going into health and stamina.

 

[RiggyRob]

No lie. The first time I fought Skeleton Lords, I was dicking around in the menu and unequipped my weapon and didn't notice it. I walked In the fog gate with bare fists. I had two of the summoned skeletons left when I died...about 10% of the boss' health.

Yeah, I've had to do some quick weapon switches in boss fights when I've realised either my weapon is way too heavy for me or it's just the wrong match-up.

Might have even be a better option than a sharp weapon for that fight TBH.

Never used a strike weapon or fists to be honest, I feel like the greatsword is the 'intended'/canon weapon type (hence the Moonlight Greatsword being in all of the games).

 

[Zank Frappa]

I really don't get all the hate on DS2. I'm playing Bloodborne now and I still think about DS2 every now and then..

 

[Mistel]

Never used a strike weapon or fists to be honest, I feel like the greatsword is the 'intended'/canon weapon type (hence the Moonlight Greatsword being in all of the games).

A lot of the weapons are in the previous games from Demon's onwards so that's a bit of a weird reason to have.

 

[RiggyRob]

A lot of the weapons are in the previous games from Demon's onwards so that's a bit of a weird reason to have.

Right, but the Moonlight Greatsword is THE FROMSoft weapon, it's basically their Master Sword.

 

[Mistel]

Right, but the Moonlight Greatsword is THE FROMSoft weapon, it's basically their Master Sword.

Calling an easter egg the "cannon weapon/definative" is just asinine though.

 

[Mike M]

So then where does DS 2 start off from?

Spoiler

And why is the First Flame still a thing?

DS2 takes the link the bonfires ending as canonical, and takes place multiple such cycles in the future.

Spoiler

Vendrick never took the the throne, hence the flame is dying again. He and Aldia sought a way to cure the plague without it; Aldia kind of succeeding with horrific results, Vendrick's blessing seems to indicate he figured out a way to prevent hollowing if not the undead curse itself. Vendrick figured out that Nashandra had played him in her attempt to claim the First Flame for herself, and set up defenses to keep her away. Everything from the Mirror Knight on to Vendrick himself is a gauntlet to protect the King's Ring. The Shrine in particular is full of singers to lull the Dark into sleep, so Nashandra herself being born from/made of the Dark cannot pass.

 

[Mistel]

DS2 takes the link the bonfires ending as canonical, and takes place multiple such cycles in the future.]

It doesn't actually explicitly take either end of the first game it's far too open ended to definitively state which end happened both endings could be potentially canon.

 

[Nerokis]

I really don't get all the hate on DS2. I'm playing Bloodborne now and I still think about DS2 every now and then..

I love DS2 a lot, but it didn't start out that way. DS2 is the reason a couple friends got to know my bitchy side. The first several hours frustrated me in a way no video game had in a very long time, and the entire thing felt like a gigantic misstep. Things eventually clicked, and I've grown more fond of DS2 with every playthrough, but I can definitely understand the endless stream of "I'm playing DS2 now and this sucks!!" posts you see in relevant and semi-relevant threads.

Miyazaki mentioned in a recent interview that, in DS2, you saw the preferences of a different director implemented, particularly in terms of things like world design. And you can definitely see that. Miyazaki's passion for a fully coherent, interconnected world gave way to something without as much emphasis on those things, but with even more openness and a feeling of surrealism in the world design. That partly comes down to different preferences, and partly to flawed implementation; either way, you have some people who see the different style as an inherent flaw, and then people like me, who have come to appreciate DS2's differences.

 

[Mike M]

It doesn't actually explicitly take either end of the first game it's far too open ended to definitively state which end happened both endings could be potentially canon.

Well the fire is still burning, which doesn't leave a lot of room the Lord of Darkness ending in my view.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

The wait for DS3 is killing me, so I'm basically trying new builds on DS2, thinking of going for a fist one, looks a lot of fun, but I don't know what stats should I focus or weapons...

Any advice?

It doesn't actually explicitly take either end of the first game it's far too open ended to definitively state which end happened both endings could be potentially canon.

Well, seeing that a flame is still burning and that the age of darkness didn't come into fruiton, I mean...there's no much room for interpretation.

 

[Orochinagis]

Well, seeing that a flame is still burning and that the age of darkness didn't come into fruiton, I mean...there's no much room for interpretation.

I would mean anything. like the Dark Souls 1 open ending.

The bearer of the curse would simply abandon drangelic, use another bearer of the curse relink the fire like Vendrink, rule drangelic until the darkness make him/her hollow or simply died before taking the throne

 

[Mistel]

Well, seeing that a flame is still burning and that the age of darkness didn't come into fruiton, I mean...there's no much room for interpretation.

The kiln isn't lit until the player enters, Drangleic is in the age of darkness until you do that or walk away again.

 

[GulAtiCa]

Almost done with the Old Iron King DLC. All I have left is to do the Iron Passage side area of that DLC. Then I can move onto the last DLC.

I enjoyed this DLC. Was fun.

Looking forward to the final DLC. Then I'll move onto NG+

 

[RiggyRob]

Episode 10, myself vs. Executioner's Chariot: https://youtu.be/G_3EJLpPw_c

What a fucking shitty, terrible boss fight - I think this is possibly the worst one in the entire game. I don't know what possessed them to make a boss fight where you can get trapped in the alcoves you need to use to avoid the chariot.

Having you run the gauntlet and making you fight enemies in certain alcoves would've been fine, but they took the piss with summoners being able to respawn the skeletons. And the boss isn't even that hard!

 

[Morrigan Stark]

lol, I think Executioner Chariot is one of the best bosses in the game. Out of all the "gimmick" bosses in the series it's by far the best executed one.

There are plenty of ways to deal with the skeletons/narrow alcoves. You can use alluring skulls to draw the skeletons away from you. If a mage, you can use Yearn which works even better. If strength/tank build you can use a big shield to tank them while cornered. If you're super good at rolling you can actually ignore the alcoves and roll through the chariot when it passes.
Hell, if you have good ranged attacks, you can hide in an alcove the whole time and chip at the boss each time it passes (which will weaken it and eventually it will miss that last jump and be hanging from the ledge pitifully, waiting for you to finish it off).

Plus the music and design is cool as hell.

 

[Anon67]

Enemies, encounters, bosses, controls.

There just aren't any enemy types that are fun and challenging to fight. The other Souls games have plenty. Good examples of this are the syan knights which are basically Dark Souls 2's equivalent of the silver knights in DS1. The difference in quality is staggering.

This ties directly to the encounter design. Since all the enemies are shit and wouldn't pose a threat by themselves, the devs are always just unimaginatively throwing several enemies at the player and calling it a day.

Bosses are also simply not challenging nor fun. Some are half decent (

Spoiler

Velstadt, Old Dragonslayer, Smelter Demon to name a couple

), but way too many are in the "what the fuck were they thinking" tier (

Spoiler

Covetous Demon, Demon of Song, Vendrick, Ancient Dragon

). Most of the rest are just vapid. But this is the one thing I have to give the DLC some credit for. Most of the bosses there are actually pretty good.

The controls are so slow and stiff. You swing a weapon, and it takes about a full second to be able to dodge or do anything. Healing takes about 3 seconds of either standing still or walking very slowly. Your character swings their weapon god knows where if you try to swing it after dodging, so again, wait a second before doing anything. Every action having this 1-2 second cooldown before you can do anything almost completely removes the fluidity and grace the combat has in other Souls games. Oh, and adaptability can die in a fire.

Regular enemies seem fine to me. I'm not completely through the game but the thought that the enemies are nowhere near as good as previously has never occurred to me. I really like how From included a lot of dark phantoms and other similar NPCs to fight because they diversity what enemies you fight. I will admit that grouping 4-7 enemies at once feels really cheap because there isn't a great way to fight off all of them when they are all attacking all at once. I had this problem mostly in No Man's Warf.

I don't think the bosses are all that bad. I would agree that among the bosses that I've versed so far, most of them aren't really as challenging as some of the Dark Souls bosses though I do think this is because I have a ton of experience in fight Souls bosses. I could probably go back to Dark Souls and fight those "tough" bosses without struggle that much. As for fun...I can't say that I'm NOT enjoying fighting bosses. Maybe I'm just bad, but I need to be a bit calculated and cautious when I fight bosses in DS2, which is fun to me IMO since I need to be actively thinking on what I should do and what the boss is doing.

I will admit that some of the bosses are somewhat bland compared to their DS1 counterparts.

I wasn't a big fan of the controls initially though I upgraded adaptability to increase agility and changed my playstyle to compensate for the long cooldowns. I do think the controls + adaptability do contribute to the artificial difficulty in this game and it would be best to revert back to DS1 system though it's not hindering my experience all that much.

Episode 10, myself vs. Executioner's Chariot: https://youtu.be/G_3EJLpPw_c

What a fucking shitty, terrible boss fight - I think this is possibly the worst one in the entire game. I don't know what possessed them to make a boss fight where you can get trapped in the alcoves you need to use to avoid the chariot.

Having you run the gauntlet and making you fight enemies in certain alcoves would've been fine, but they took the piss with summoners being able to respawn the skeletons. And the boss isn't even that hard!

I was totally fine with it. Dealing with the skeletons so that you weren't overwhelmed when killing the summoners was fun.

 

[pa22word]

Executioners chariot is just a fun throwback to Goht from majora's mask. Considering the blatant Zelda inspirations from the series, I thought it was actually a pretty cool fight.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Considering the blatant Zelda inspirations from the series

The what now

 

[pa22word]

The what now

Is this seriously the first time you've heard that?

I mean ffs the series gameplay is basically oot with enemies that can actually do damage to you.

 

[GwyndolinCinder]

Is this seriously the first time you've heard that?

I mean ffs the series gameplay is basically oot with enemies that can actually do damage to you.

Not sure if serious

 

[pa22word]

Not sure if serious

Very serious, and honestly very obvious.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Oh of course. Third person melee combat with lock-on on enemies. Ergo the games are basically the same!

So obvious.

 

[pa22word]

Oh of course. Third person melee combat with lock-on on enemies. Ergo the games are basically the same!

So obvious.

I never said the games were basically the same. I said that the series' combat is very derivative of oot. Which should be pretty obvious to anyone who's played both games and realizes that oot came out in 1998 not 2007.

 

[Mike M]

Eh, it's as inspired by Zelda as much as any platformer is inspired by SMB. You get far enough removed from the progenitor, and it just becomes a genre trope rather than homage or inspiration.

That said, I have frequently longed for a Zelda game with Souls combat.

 

[RiggyRob]

lol, I think Executioner Chariot is one of the best bosses in the game. Out of all the "gimmick" bosses in the series it's by far the best executed one.

There are plenty of ways to deal with the skeletons/narrow alcoves. You can use alluring skulls to draw the skeletons away from you. If a mage, you can use Yearn which works even better. If strength/tank build you can use a big shield to tank them while cornered. If you're super good at rolling you can actually ignore the alcoves and roll through the chariot when it passes.
Hell, if you have good ranged attacks, you can hide in an alcove the whole time and chip at the boss each time it passes (which will weaken it and eventually it will miss that last jump and be hanging from the ledge pitifully, waiting for you to finish it off).

Plus the music and design is cool as hell.

It's unique sure, and once the Chariot's crashed it's a pretty decent fight, but until then it's awful. Didn't know about the ledge thing, that's pretty neat.

I was totally fine with it. Dealing with the skeletons so that you weren't overwhelmed when killing the summoners was fun.

I thought it was terrible. Using your stamina to sprint into an alcove to then get murdered because the skeletons who followed you don't have stamina and somehow avoided getting hit by the chariot as it goes back sucked.

Executioners chariot is just a fun throwback to Goht from majora's mask. Considering the blatant Zelda inspirations from the series, I thought it was actually a pretty cool fight.

I still need to finish Majora's Mask, only beaten the first dungeon.

 

[Tarkus]

Are we sure the flame from DS1 is still the flame burning in DS2?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

If you mean the lock on thing, then every third person game with action melee elements are derivative of OoT. From Dark Souls to Devil May Cry.

 

[Mike M]

Are we sure the flame from DS1 is still the flame burning in DS2?

The games both point out that attempting to recreate it is disastrous, so I'm inclined to think so.

 

[pa22word]

If you mean the lock on thing, then every third person game with action melee elements are derivative of OoT. From Dark Souls to Devil May Cry.

It goes deeper than that with souls. Others before me have pointed out some of the enemy designs matching some classical Zelda enemies.

Like, I don't know how you can play through the Forrest temple and fight in the room with 3 skultula knights and the hole in the middle of the room and say that these games are not born from that mold to a striking degree.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I never said the games were basically the same.

the series gameplay is basically oot with enemies that can actually do damage to you.

Close enough.

And sorry but it's still laughable. It's like saying all FPS are "basically Doom's gameplay". Come on now.

It's unique sure, and once the Chariot's crashed it's a pretty decent fight, but until then it's awful. Didn't know about the ledge thing, that's pretty neat.

I thought it was terrible. Using your stamina to sprint into an alcove to then get murdered because the skeletons who followed you don't have stamina and somehow avoided getting hit by the chariot as it goes back sucked.

I gave you a bunch of possible solutions to deal with that. *shrugs*

 

[pa22word]

Close enough.

No, it's really not.

Games can have similar gameplay but radically different level and world design to put that gameplay in different context.

Like with dark souls I'd say it's a mix between oot gameplay and ultima underworld level design.

Also, if you've played fps in the modern sense you'd realize the core gameplay design from doom and quake have changed much more than from oot to dark souls, but that overall has more to do with the move from keyboards and mouse to controllers than anything else.

 

[Mistel]

Are we sure the flame from DS1 is still the flame burning in DS2?

No we're not there's no mention of it being one and the same anywhere even in disused content.

 

[xorx]

No we're not there's no mention of it being one and the same anywhere even in disused content.

Its called the

Spoiler

Kiln of the First Flame so doesn't that imply that it is the same flame that Gwyn used?

 

[Buraindo]

The kiln isn't lit until the player enters, Drangleic is in the age of darkness until you do that or walk away again.

I doubt this is the case since the world state is almost if not completely identical to Lordran in 1. It's basically another "This age of fire is ending" sort of ordeal.

No we're not there's no mention of it being one and the same anywhere even in disused content.

The Emerald Herald explicitly states

Spoiler

"Knowing that you will take the throne, and link the fire. She covets the First Flame, and the Great Soul."

 

[Mistel]

The Emerald Herald explicitly states

Spoiler

"Knowing that you will take the throne, and link the fire. She covets the First Flame, and the Great Soul."

That's a different there's no mention of it still burning not actually being the same flame.

 

[GulAtiCa]

Blue Arbiters are funny. Got invaded by one in the Iron Passage in the Old Iron King DLC. Just after the 1st drop into the area (with the spell caster that is on the ledge).

Anyways, guy attacked me a little, but I held back in that little outcove at beginning to avoid the caster. So Blue guy stood in middle of room waiting for me to come to him, obviously I wouldn't. Even came to me and attacked me at few points. Anyways, finally for some odd reason guy dropped down to the next level. I decided to not follow, and instead to use my Seed of a Tree of Giants on him. I heard as enemies started to attack him (I think they work on blue invaders). After a minute, guy left. I always laugh when invaders give up and leave when things aren't going their way. lol

 

[Mike M]

That's a different there's no mention of it still burning not actually being the same flame.

If a flame exists, it is by definition burning. The bonfires and the undead curse only exist because Gwyn tried to unnaturally prolong the age of fire, that they continue to exist is testament that it never died.

 

[Buraindo]

That's a different there's no mention of it still burning not actually being the same flame.

For things to be the way they are it has to be. It's a dying flame, not a dead one.

 

[Mistel]

If a flame exists, it is by definition burning. The bonfires and the undead curse only exist because Gwyn tried to unnaturally prolong the age of fire, that they continue to exist is testament that it never died.

You relight the flame though in the end, DS1 lore doesn't mesh well with DS2 lore at all if this was DS1 then you'd be completely right.

 

[Mike M]

You relight the flame though in the end, DS1 lore doesn't mesh well with DS2 lore at all if this was DS1 then you'd be completely right.

Heh, I'll grant the lore doesn't mesh well and seems almost entirely unrelated barring returning items, the fragments of Manus, and the Souls of Lords.

 

[Tarkus]

It's hard not to think the Loyce Greatsword is the best sword in the game. Perhaps only the Sun Sword/Fume Sword has a better moveset.

 

[kagamin]

Disc Chime is the best melee weapon though.

 

[Anon67]

I thought it was terrible. Using your stamina to sprint into an alcove to then get murdered because the skeletons who followed you don't have stamina and somehow avoided getting hit by the chariot as it goes back

I had this problem to a degree. All but one skeleton would be knocked down by the chariot, which wasn't a problem since by the time he chased me to an alcove and hit me, I would have had enough stamina to block. Btw I would run to an alcove at the last moment to make sure that most of the skeletons behind me were knocked down.

 

[HK-47]

It's hard not to think the Loyce Greatsword is the best sword in the game. Perhaps only the Sun Sword/Fume Sword has a better moveset.

Best sword in the game is the warped sword unless they nerfed it when I wasnt looking.

 

[Orochinagis]

Are we sure the flame from DS1 is still the flame burning in DS2?

Technically is still the first flame but being refueled several times, is still unknown if the flame affects the whole world or there are more flames out there, in case of Dark Souls 2 the events are in another continent or place not really confirmed if is still anor londo. On the Ivory king DLC you can see another Chaos flame spreading but is not stated if is the same Chaos flame from Chaos sisters from Dark Souls 1

 

[Mike M]

The item descriptions of the dragon crest rings would imply that Drangleic stands where Vinheim once existed.

 

[RiggyRob]

Episode 11, myself vs. Scorpioness Najka: https://youtu.be/bdRoOD29zIU

This fight's pretty standard and has a nice setup, but only if you have the Ring of Whispers to talk to Tark before-hand - you miss out on the context behind the fight if you don't, which seems like a bit of a waste to me. Was there a similar ring/item in the previous games?

Also, how the hell do you get the item up on the tree?

 

[Mike M]

Episode 11, myself vs. Scorpioness Najka: https://youtu.be/bdRoOD29zIU

This fight's pretty standard and has a nice setup, but only if you have the Ring of Whispers to talk to Tark before-hand - you miss out on the context behind the fight if you don't, which seems like a bit of a waste to me. Was there a similar ring/item in the previous games?

Also, how the hell do you get the item up on the tree?

Bait her into knocking it down. It's pretty inconsequential, though. Think it's a butterfly lantern.

 

[Mistel]

Best sword in the game is the warped sword unless they nerfed it when I wasnt looking.

It actually got a buff.

Disc Chime is the best melee weapon though.

Sanctum shield should theoretically be the strongest of the pair of them I think.

It's hard not to think the Loyce Greatsword is the best sword in the game. Perhaps only the Sun Sword/Fume Sword has a better moveset.

The thrust attacks rank it that high for you even with it's low AR (Ignoring the rings you've got on which I remember from the Fume Sword discussion)?