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[mollipen]

I saw the demo today. After being disappointed in DS2, this has me sooooo excited again. It just oozes this atmosphere of the original Dark Souls (with, funny enough, some Bloodborne, in terms of the far higher complexity of environments).

 

[Momentary]

Did this really just turn into a "better not be 30fps on PC" topic? Just enjoy the game. FPS doesn't change gameplay. It creates a better feel in the game. It makes the world more immersive. The consoles are plenty powerful to hit 60fps. Developer is probably just sees this as an artistic choice to better portray the game.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

They thought "gee it's dumb that the fully armored Havel dudes are flipping around the room like a pack of ninja with a zillion i-frames and poise". They were correct.

While AGL as a separate stat wasn't a perfect solution, it did stop all but the super high leveled people from achieving "min max ninja armored super mage" status which was good.

If the problem is fully-armored Havel dudes flipping around with a zillion i-frames then agility was a terrible solution, since it nerfed everyone's i-frames equally, not just Havel dudes'.

 

[pupcoffee]

I'm so happy that kicking is back. You can actually get pretty far in the Catacombs in Dark Souls 1 thanks to that move.

 

[InfiniDragon]

If the problem is fully-armored Havel dudes flipping around with a zillion i-frames then agility was a terrible solution, since it nerfed everyone's i-frames equally, not just Havel dudes'.

No, because you could be light and ninja and have lots of i-frames if you leveled ADP, but then you wouldn't have the END or Stamina for heavy armor.

They forced a choice of leveling the i-frames and being evasive, or leveling your equip load and being a tank. It was tough to be both, which is what they wanted. They wanted the tradeoff.

EDIT: Or you could pick to have both but then have to sacrifice HP, or Faith/Intelligence, or so on. You have to get to like SL 150-200 minimum before you can be a jack of all trades in DSII.

Wasn't a perfect solution? It was a shit solution. You gonna defend Soul Memory next? My goodness...

No, Soul Memory is very flawed and the old system is a better solution. I don't think everything in DSII was good, but it had good stuff. Just like DS and BB had some very bad ideas. Just because I have my own opinions about the games doesn't mean that I don't think there were downsides to DSII, because all the Souls games have them. But I enjoyed all of them.

 

[dcelw540]

Playstation lifestyle has an article stating that this is a different team then bloodborne and their are less places then dark souls 2 but they are bigger. \
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2015/06/17/dark-souls-3-maps-will-be-bigger-game-not-developed-by-bloodborne-team/
Hopefully this isn't already stated

 

[DoubleTake]

No, because you could be light and ninja and have lots of i-frames if you leveled ADP, but then you wouldn't have the END or Stamina for heavy armor.

They forced a choice of leveling the i-frames and being evasive, or leveling your equip load and being a tank. It was tough to be both, which is what they wanted. They wanted the tradeoff.

EDIT: Or you could pick to have both but then have to sacrifice HP, or Faith/Intelligence, or so on. You have to get to like SL 150-200 minimum before you can be a jack of all trades in DSII.

Yea..if thats the case then they fucked it all with Soul Memory. Everyone ended up being 150-200 anyway.

 

[njean777]

cannot wait for this, I still haven't completed Bloodborne and was a little disappointed in it actually. I like the game, but it just isn't Dark Souls (I didnt expect it to be honestly).

 

[Gbraga]

I don't think Vendrick would be a "God Hand," since he didn't actually link the fire. Gwyn and the Chosen Undead are the only ones we know of who fill that role. Possibly Solaire and the second game's MC as well.

Furthermore, the true villains almost have to be the Primordial Serpents, who orchestrated all of this in the first place.

Oh man I would be sooooo happy to see Kaathe once again.

 

[Metalingus5150]

For goodness sake CAN SOMEONE LEAK FOOTAGE PLEASE! >.<

 

[InfiniDragon]

Yea..if thats the case then they fucked it all with Soul Memory. Everyone ended up being 150-200 anyway.

Like I said, it wasn't a perfect solution. I just see what they were going for.

 

[Sticky&Sweet]

I saw the demo today. After being disappointed in DS2, this has me sooooo excited again. It just oozes this atmosphere of the original Dark Souls (with, funny enough, some Bloodborne, in terms of the far higher complexity of environments).

I'm so jealous -_-

 

[Dresden]

Yea..if thats the case then they fucked it all with Soul Memory. Everyone ended up being 150-200 anyway.

Yeah, there was no tradeoff because there was no meta to match your levels to. Flynn's Ring is the only reason to keep VIT low.

 

[DoubleTake]

Yeah, there was no tradeoff because there was no meta to restrict levels to.

Exactly. Im pretty sure it was obvious they wouldnt try something like SM again though after the backlash it got.

I saw the demo today. After being disappointed in DS2, this has me sooooo excited again. It just oozes this atmosphere of the original Dark Souls (with, funny enough, some Bloodborne, in terms of the far higher complexity of environments).

Tell us...how beautiful is it? Explain it nice and slow lol

 

[Juraash]

This list of impressions/changes absolutely sound like steps in the right direction. I loved Demon's Souls and DS1 and as much as I want to love DS2 I just can't do it. It just doesn't feel right to me. I want this to bring things back around to feeling like DS1 did.

 

[Varna]

I really do hope magic is gone. These guys are absolutely terrible at balancing any version of it.

 

[InfiniDragon]

Exactly. Im pretty sure it was obvious they wouldnt try something like SM again though after the backlash it got.

Yeah SM is something I doubt will ever be in the game, especially after BB's system of Bell Maidens. If they want to protect lowbies from asshole griefers (which they might seeing as it's Miyazaki again) they'll just implement a similar mechanic to that in the newbie areas so geared guys can't just jump noobs.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

No, because you could be light and ninja and have lots of i-frames if you leveled ADP, but then you wouldn't have the END or Stamina for heavy armor.

They forced a choice of leveling the i-frames and being evasive, or leveling your equip load and being a tank. It was tough to be both, which is what they wanted. They wanted the tradeoff.

EDIT: Or you could pick to have both but then have to sacrifice HP, or Faith/Intelligence, or so on. You have to get to like SL 150-200 minimum before you can be a jack of all trades in DSII.

It was a PvP-oriented decision that had massive spillover into PvE, effectively making everyone's roll unpredictably shitty for most of their first playthrough, without actually doing anything to fix PvP. It was a really, really bad call, and I think it would have been a bad call even if it had fixed heavy armor in PvP - Souls can't get into the habit of sacrificing the PvE experience in pursuit of PvP balance.

 

[InfiniDragon]

It was a PvP-oriented decision that had massive spillover into PvE, effectively making everyone's roll unpredictably shitty for most of their first playthrough, without actually doing anything to fix PvP. It was a really, really bad call, and I think it would have been a bad call even if it had fixed heavy armor in PvP - Souls can't get into the habit of sacrificing the PvE experience in pursuit of PvP balance.

Sadly that's exactly what they do because as they've said several times, invasions are part of the game. So PvP they feel is a part of the PvE.

I agree with you that PvE should come first though, even though I enjoy Souls PvP (consensual through signs/arena, never invaded and never will).

EDIT: For example, that's why Faith spell builds were nerfed into the damn dirt in DSII, because they were too strong in PvP.

 

[msdstc]

I caught this today. Miyazaki was very down to earth. Game is very far along. I've seen bloodborne and other souls games early and normally the framerate is a disaster. It had hitches here and there but for the most part was smooth

 

[DoubleTake]

Yeah SM is something I doubt will ever be in the game, especially after BB's system of Bell Maidens. If they want to protect lowbies from asshole griefers (which they might seeing as it's Miyazaki again) they'll just implement a similar mechanic to that in the newbie areas so geared guys can't just jump noobs.

Yea in BB you couldnt be invaded till you were level 30. I really feel like that was enough. Adding in Bell Maidens really killed random invasions especially since they didnt respawn once killed and people could simply summon their friends right in front of the fog door without worrying about invasions.

Hopefully they just go back to basics and say if you dont want to be invaded play offline and implement the level 30 break point for invasions. Of course that wont stop scumbags from getting overpowered gear and messing with others at level 30 but the trade off to stop that small minority is too detrimental to the longevity of the game.

 

[Gbraga]

Bloodborne already offered the one feature that was needed to prevent people who don't want to be invaded from being invaded: Offline mode.

Bam, done.

And I also agree that PVE should always come first, even though I do love me some Souls PVP.

 

[Dresden]

Honestly, I'd miss it if griefing/ganking were totally taken out of the game. Level 1 Dickwraiths are just like, a part of the burg, man. And attempts to fix this has led to messy solutions with terrible consequences.

 

[JimPanzer]

Did this really just turn into a "better not be 30fps on PC" topic? Just enjoy the game. FPS doesn't change gameplay. It creates a better feel in the game. It makes the world more immersive. The consoles are plenty powerful to hit 60fps. Developer is probably just sees this as an artistic choice to better portray the game.

Except it does. I'm on console mysef, so no pc-master-race-bullshit. Framerate always has an effect on the gameplay. Just look the other way: imagine a game running at 15 FPS, surely the way you play the game would be influenced by that.

 

[Psychoward]

Bloodborne already offered the one feature that was needed to prevent people who don't want to be invaded from being invaded: Offline mode.

Bam, done.

And I also agree that PVE should always come first, even though I do love me some Souls PVP.

I played offline in Bloodborne solely to get rid of note clutter and to increase the framerate which apparently was a thing. If they fixed those two somehow I'd play with the option to be invaded at any point.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This might be old, but I just saw it linked on Twitter. Looks like there's an interview with Miyazaki in the latest Famitsu. They posted a few excerpts online:

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201506/17081111.html

One cool thing that Miyazaki mentions is that he plans to do away with the Agility stat.

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My quick translation

Famitsu: What about the speed of the combat?
Miyazaki: We'll keep the feeling of weight behind the weapons and attacks, but the combat should feel somewhat faster than the previous games, and we're working to make the movement feel more intuitive. On that note, I don't think we'll be implementing the concept of "Agility" from Dark Souls II. The idea that the player feels somewhat stressed until they raise their stats enough doesn't really match the direction we're going for with III.

---

Awesome! This should make a lot of Demon's Souls/Dark Souls fans happy.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Honestly, I'd miss it if griefing/ganking were totally taken out of the game. Level 1 Dickwraiths are just like, a part of the burg, man. And attempts to fix this has led to messy solutions with terrible consequences.

Yeah. I never PvP, but I loved that feeling of dread when you were making serious progress and then saw the invasion message. Nine times out of ten I got my ass kicked, but one time I was almost at the top of Sen's and I managed to get the guy to fall to his death and I still remember that moment fondly.

Just implement a long refractory period so people aren't constantly invaded when they're just trying to progress through a level and leave it alone. Getting your ass kicked by a red phantom should be like getting your ass kicked by a dragon swooping down out of nowhere and roasting the bridge you're standing on: it's a thing that'll happen from time to time.

 

[JayEH]

This all sounds awesome. Can't wait. I can use all the souls I can get (even though I do fear franchise fatigue).

 

[Lernaean]

This all sounds awesome. Can't wait. I can use all the souls I can get (even though I do fear franchise fatigue).

Fatigue may come, but until Miyazaki makes the perfect Souls game, i'll just get and devour all of them.
DS3 sound so far like a step in the right direction though.

Now someone pls leak a vid. A screenshot even. I need to see those shiny knights /cry

 

[Grief.exe]

Did this really just turn into a "better not be 30fps on PC" topic? Just enjoy the game. FPS doesn't change gameplay. It creates a better feel in the game. It makes the world more immersive. The consoles are plenty powerful to hit 60fps. Developer is probably just sees this as an artistic choice to better portray the game.

Honestly console development should just push 30 FPS at this point to keep pace from a visual perspective.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

This might be old, but I just saw it linked on Twitter. Looks like there's an interview with Miyazaki in the latest Famitsu. They posted a few excerpts online:


My quick translation

Famitsu: What about the speed of the combat?
Miyazaki: We'll keep the feeling of weight behind the weapons and attacks, but the combat should feel somewhat faster than the previous games, and we're working to make the movement feel more intuitive. On that note, I don't think we'll be implementing the concept of "Agility" from Dark Souls II. The idea that the player feels somewhat stressed until they raise their stats enough doesn't really match the direction we're going for with III.

---

Awesome! This should make a lot of Demon's Souls/Dark Souls fans happy.

DS1 control/movement/weight is back!

Praise the fun!!!!

 

[knitoe]

This might be old, but I just saw it linked on Twitter. Looks like there's an interview with Miyazaki in the latest Famitsu. They posted a few excerpts online:

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201506/17081111.html

One cool thing that Miyazaki mentions is that he plans to do away with the Agility stat.



My quick translation

Famitsu: What about the speed of the combat?
Miyazaki: We'll keep the feeling of weight behind the weapons and attacks, but the combat should feel somewhat faster than the previous games, and we're working to make the movement feel more intuitive. On that note, I don't think we'll be implementing the concept of "Agility" from Dark Souls II. The idea that the player feels somewhat stressed until they raise their stats enough doesn't really match the direction we're going for with III.

---

Awesome! This should make a lot of Demon's Souls/Dark Souls fans happy.

I am not surpise. People complaining about DS2 shitty hit detection because they didn't raise their char Agilty to 100 to be the same as in DS1.

 

[tcrunch]

I really do hope magic is gone. These guys are absolutely terrible at balancing any version of it.

You can have magic when you take it from my cold dead hands. Which is impossible because I am the immortal Chosen Undead. Hahahahahahahahaa!

 

[tcrunch]

Playstation lifestyle has an article stating that this is a different team then bloodborne and their are less places then dark souls 2 but they are bigger. \
http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2015/06/17/dark-souls-3-maps-will-be-bigger-game-not-developed-by-bloodborne-team/
Hopefully this isn't already stated

If you go to their source article @ http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/dark_...eloped_by_a_different_team_to_bloodborne.html

It says Yoshimura corrected by saying some visual designers worked on both titles and that was it.

He also has a co-director.

Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor director Isamu Okano will also be supporting Miyazaki in the role of co-director on Dark Souls 3, with Dark Souls 2's director Yui Tanimura also set be joining the team in a non-director role.

"Miyazaki-san is taking lead on the overall production, the basic game features, direction, as well as the visual design direction," Yoshimura explained. "Okano-san is basically handling the mass production part as well as the human resource control. The best way to explain how Okano-san and Miyazaki-san are working together is that Okano-san is basically supporting Miyazaki-san's direction."

e: oops doublepost
e2: Steel Battalion: Heavy Armor is a Kinect game with a metacritic score of 38, apparently due mostly to its bad Kinect sensor controls (GamesMaster UK: "At some point, From Software must have been aware that their game was literally unplayable, but by then it was too late and they had to grit their teeth and carry it through to its infuriating, fumbling conclusion. ")

 

[Erevador]

...living corpses worshiped trees that looked to be made out of dead bodies that had sprouted into a kind of foliage all their own.

That is the most Dark Souls thing I have ever read.

 

[Wheelatron]

You can have magic when you take it from my cold dead hands. Which is impossible because I am the immortal Chosen Undead. Hahahahahahahahaa!

Agreed. Removing magic would be a disaster and would limit character variety way too much.

Also, when Bloodborne was announced they made it very clear that it wasn't a Souls game because they wanted to change up some of the fundamentals without having Souls fans worry about the same changes being reflected in future Souls games. Souls having magic and Bloodborne not having it was one of the ways they differentiated the two.

 

[DoubleTake]

I am not surpise. People complaining about DS2 shitty hit detection because they didn't raise their char Agilty to 100 to be the same as in DS1.

Its for the better. Souls is an ACTION Rpg series. Something as important to the gameplay as I-frames should be a set value and not tied to leveling up your character.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Yea in BB you couldnt be invaded till you were level 30. I really feel like that was enough. Adding in Bell Maidens really killed random invasions especially since they didnt respawn once killed and people could simply summon their friends right in front of the fog door without worrying about invasions.

Hopefully they just go back to basics and say if you dont want to be invaded play offline and implement the level 30 break point for invasions. Of course that wont stop scumbags from getting overpowered gear and messing with others at level 30 but the trade off to stop that small minority is too detrimental to the longevity of the game.

Level 30 is too high, that's far too long where players will be able to co-op with no tradeoff.

In my opinion, it should be done Demon's Souls style. The first area of the game, roughly 2-5 hours depending on skill level, has no multiplayer at all.

This forces players to familiarize themselves with the mechanics enough that they A) won't get trampled by an invader while they're still learning the controls and B) can handle challenges without needing other players to hold their hands in co-op.

 

[Soriku]

DS1 control/movement/weight is back!

Praise the fun!!!!

*Slightly faster than DkS1

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

*Slightly faster than DkS1

No qualms if it retains the responsiveness. I just don't want it to be like that one game...

 

[Ghost Slayer]

Miyazaki: On that note, I don't think we'll be implementing the concept of "Agility" from Dark Souls II. The idea that the player feels somewhat stressed until they raise their stats enough doesn't really match the direction we're going for with III.

fuck yes. Force iframe in a stat is a silly design

 

[Despera]

I really hope the side step from Bloodborne makes it into DS3. Whether it's build specific or tied to a sword art it needs to be there.

 

[AlphaDragoon]

Except it does. I'm on console mysef, so no pc-master-race-bullshit. Framerate always has an effect on the gameplay. Just look the other way: imagine a game running at 15 FPS, surely the way you play the game would be influenced by that.

Yep. That other dude can get outta here if that "it doesn't matter if it's not 60 FPS" talk. It definitely matters and it better be 60 on PC.

 

[Yabberwocky]

So pleased with all of this (especially Miyazaki's level design!). They seemed to be bringing back some of the DeS/DS1 components that worked better, whilst keeping what DS2 did right.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I find this a little silly.

It's frame-rate issues didn't dampen my enjoyment of the game in the slightest, and this is the first Miyazaki game I've ever platinumed.

On my fifth playthrough right now.

It's not silly that I'm used to better, what's silly is them not fixing the issue after so many months.

 

[Seanspeed]

It's not silly that I'm used to better, what's silly is them not fixing the issue after so many months.

I'm still holding out hope before playing, too. Got it sitting here waiting to be played, but I'm going through some other games at the moment anyways, so I'll give it a bit more time. I have a feeling going from 60fps DS2 to 30fps w/framepacing issues in BB will be a difficult adjustment, especially since it's a faster game.

 

[GreyOcelot]

I've been avoiding playing Bloodborne more in the futile hope they patch the frame pacing issues, it's by far the worst performing game I own so far on PS4, it just feels so choppy to the point of really hurting my enjoyment of the game.

i take it you don't have witcher 3 on ps4

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I'm still holding out hope before playing, too. Got it sitting here waiting to be played, but I'm going through some other games at the moment anyways, so I'll give it a bit more time. I have a feeling going from 60fps DS2 to 30fps w/framepacing issues in BB will be a difficult adjustment.

I'm in the same boat, new PS4 owner so I have multiple games to work through, so there's no reason to play Bloodborne first with its issues. I beat the first two bosses but decided to put it on hold until last in the hopes we get a patch, I mean, they're bringing out an expansion so you'd assume they're going to fix the base game first. But judging by this thread such performance issues are simply ignored or pardoned by a portion of their player base so maybe not. I have a friend who's playing it now and he says it's "smooth" to him, but he's admittedly a console gamer through and through and it's just what he's used to, although from my relatively short exposure to the PS4 there's a huge difference between 30fps locked with proper pacing and 30fps most of the time with awful pacing, and Bloodborne firmly falls into category B. I'm sure by Bloodborne III my eyes would have adjusted

i take it you don't have witcher 3 on ps4

Nope, PC. 60fps 100% without dips. Performance is the most important thing to me, so I always aim for 60fps without dips, and if I can't achieve that I either lower the settings or if that doesn't work upgrade my hardware. I've seen the Digital Foundry videos for Witcher on PS4 and I could not enjoy the game like that, locking to 20fps all the time would absolutely kill it for me.

 

[Servbot24]

I've been avoiding playing Bloodborne more in the futile hope they patch the frame pacing issues, it's by far the worst performing game I own so far on PS4, it just feels so choppy to the point of really hurting my enjoyment of the game.

I can't help but wonder if there's some kind of technical issue specifically on your end, because I've played through twice and it runs great. The only frame stutter is when you transition into a new area.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I can't help but wonder if there's some kind of technical issue specifically on your end, because I've played through twice and it runs great. The only frame stutter is when you transition into a new area.

It's not on my end, it's the game. You are just not sensitive to it or are used to it. I knew from the second the game loaded it had issues as soon as I took my first step. The pacing issues prevent it from being smooth in motion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6jxhgMteB4

Unfortunately, the frame-pacing issues we reported on at launch persist even after patch 1.03 is installed. This means the frame-rate still feels very uneven, despite the average being 30fps - something that hopefully is recognised at From Software for a future patch.