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[Soulhouf]

I'm getting so sick of FromSoft's lazy RNG designs. Been sitting here trying to farm a Balder Shield from the church (with 10 Humanity) for an hour on my latest SL1 run, no luck. Tired of this Mickey Mouse shit, drops like this should be based on skillful play, not luck.

It's so lame I've been able to upgrade all my essentials to +5 already and still have 22 Shards left over. I'm even upgrading crap I have almost no use for...

That's one thing that needs to change for Dark Souls 2. No more luck-based bullshit, all should revolve around skill and creativity.

RNG is a good design. That's what makes encounters never feel the same or repetitive.
Also RNG is essential in an RPG and IMO Dark Souls doesn't have enough randomness (2 same attacks will always do the same damage to the same enemy for example).
If you remove RNG, the game will also lose some of its rare RPG elements (dice roll).

The game never makes obtaining a certain drop obligatory, so if you really want it, either you farm for it or use something else. In this case in particular you can purchase the shield, so the problem doesn't even exist.

 

[toddhunter]

Just an aside, but where does this RNG term come from? I'd never really heard it before the last week or so, but now I'm seeing it around everywhere.

Guess I need to keep with the times.

I think the design is fine, and I found items seem to drop a lot more frequently in Dark Souls compared to Demons...so maybe they are toning it down.

It would be nice to avoid picking up low level crap though. Inventory management is really something that needs a rethink before anything else.

 

[Soulhouf]

Just an aside, but where does this RNG term come from? I'd never really heard it before the last week or so, but now I'm seeing it around everywhere.

Guess I need to keep with the times.

I think the design is fine, and I found items seem to drop a lot more frequently in Dark Souls compared to Demons...so maybe they are toning it down.

It would be nice to avoid picking up low level crap though. Inventory management is really something that needs a rethink before anything else.

Random Number Generator. Basically random drop, random stat increase, random critical hits and so on.

BTW EpicNameBro is doing some coverages on RNG: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQDWoXFQ-YLogfw6o5xE68Q8CWqBgLggK

 

[toddhunter]

Random Number Generator. Basically random drop, random stat increase, random critical hits and so on.

BTW EpicNameBro is doing some coverages on RNG: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQDWoXFQ-YLogfw6o5xE68Q8CWqBgLggK

Yeah I know what it is, but when did it start being "RNG?"

 

[ArynCrinn]

RNG is a good design. That's what makes encounters never feel the same or repetitive.
Also RNG is essential in an RPG and IMO Dark Souls doesn't have enough randomness (2 same attacks will always do the same damage to the same enemy for example).
If you remove RNG, the game will also lose some of its rare RPG elements (dice roll).

The game never makes obtaining a certain drop obligatory, so if you really want it, either you farm for it or use something else. In this case in particular you can purchase the shield, so the problem doesn't even exist.

I'd argue that complex AI and precisely tuned enemies and hazards are far better for action-type games than RNG. RNG becomes more of a crutch than it needs to be, in favor of creating intelligent enemies with complex (yet predictable) behavior. The game could end up even harder this way! But it would be a challenge that could be dealt with through practice. Same with drops and other types of randomness. Build complex ambiguous systems that are predictable in the right hands and it makes it much more rewarding, imo. Not "I just got lucky", but "I'm getting better".

But I've always hated RNG stuff in otherwise tight and precise gameplay systems. But that just so happens to be my cup of tea, reflex-based twitch challenge with great worlds and vision. So RNG definitely runs against my paradigm.

I'm not saying kill RNG completely, leave it in for everybody. But why not include subsystems for players with the skill to get the drops and results they want if they are capable of it? That's all I'm saying, and it would make it a far more complex and rewarding game for all skill levels. So I have a love/hate relationship with RNG for almost any game.

Edit: Few more bosses I just knocked out pretty quick.

Stray Demon = He bleeds, badly.

Moonlight Butterfly = This boss is actually quite hard with the no healing rule and pure melee, I healed here though. Not much to say besides I liked the finish.

Capra Demon = Easy to tank, and I still hate dogs.

Gaping Dragon = Gaping Dragon apparently doesn't respect bowing etiquette, he pays for it!

Quelaag = This is the most fun and best way to take down Quelaag. Up close and personal and not giving her an inch.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I agree. Dark Souls is an action game and there's no reason for unique weapons to be hidden behind .01% drop rates. Imagine if Devil May Cry pulled stuff like that.

 

[ArynCrinn]

I agree. Dark Souls is an action game and there's no reason for unique weapons to be hidden behind .01% drop rates. Imagine if Devil May Cry pulled stuff like that.

Some RNG is good to mix things up and offer a bunch of surprises each playthrough. All I'm calling for is more predictable subsystems in regard to enemy behavior and loot drops. The surface layer could still be Grade A Dark Souls RNG, but under that there could be a system that allows skillful players to coax out a more predictable game. While still retaining it's RPG nature.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I agree. Dark Souls is an action game and there's no reason for unique weapons to be hidden behind .01% drop rates. Imagine if Devil May Cry pulled stuff like that.

I don't really like DMC, but I'd love to see rare drops in more games, and more rare drops in this game! For me the Souls series is an Action-RPG series, the RPG part was what drew me in.

 

[Soulhouf]

I agree. Dark Souls is an action game and there's no reason for unique weapons to be hidden behind .01% drop rates. Imagine if Devil May Cry pulled stuff like that.

Dark Souls is not a straight action game. It's an Action Role Playing Game.
The RPG part is very important and like Red Liquorice, that's the part that drew me in.

@ArynCrinn: I understand and agree. A mix between RNG and skill/advanced IA would be more appreciated.

 

[Risk Breaker]

RNG is a good design. That's what makes encounters never feel the same or repetitive.
Also RNG is essential in an RPG and IMO Dark Souls doesn't have enough randomness (2 same attacks will always do the same damage to the same enemy for example).
If you remove RNG, the game will also lose some of its rare RPG elements (dice roll).

The game never makes obtaining a certain drop obligatory, so if you really want it, either you farm for it or use something else. In this case in particular you can purchase the shield, so the problem doesn't even exist.

Very much agreed.

Dark Souls is an RPG and an adventure game before it is an action game. Thus, RNG and randomized drops fit much better than boring, pre-set, fixed drops. You already have methods to increase drop rates if you know what you're doing (ring, humanity), and I think that's enough. You could have something like lower level = higher rare drops, but people would exploit the hell out of it. Anyway, rare items in RPGs have always existed and are cool.

Of course, judging by your avatar, you must be used to REALLY hardcore drop mechanics

 

[ParityBit]

Dark Souls is not a straight action game. It's an Action Role Playing Game.
The RPG part is very important and like Red Liquorice, that's the part that drew me in.

@ArynCrinn: I understand and agree. A mix between RNG and skill/advanced IA would be more appreciated.

If they took away the randomness, I would not play it multiple times, and maybe not even play at all, even as good as the game is. Half the fun is the hunt.

I didn't get something this play through, I will next!

 

[Laurentius]

Yeah I know what it is, but when did it start being "RNG?"

Well, it's a common term in computer science, and RNGs affect pretty much all games in some form or another. However, they're often referred to in certain types of RPGs, as chance and percentages play a large role. I've seen references to RNGs almost as long as I've been gaming.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

I just purchased this game.

Spoiler

I'm scared

Other than the resolution fix, are there any other performance and/or graphical fixes I should know about?

 

[I H8 Memes]

I just purchased this game.

Spoiler

I'm scared

Other than the resolution fix, are there any other performance and/or graphical fixes I should know about?

There's a mouse fix if you want to use that as well.

So this is what I have left. I think. As far as I can tell this is all thats left.

Spoiler

Great Hollow/Ash Lake
Demon Ruins
Dukes Archives
New Londo/valley of the Drakes
Catacombs

Listed them in the order I figure they should be done. Sound about right?

 

[ParityBit]

The covenant is just past the portcullis gate where the red dragon is.

if you haven't dealt with him yet...

Spoiler

You can still go to the middle stairway on the stairs, and shoot him with an arrow. As soon as he leaves his perch, haul ass past him to the doorway, and to the bonfire. The covenant is just near there on the porch to the right

OK! This is on my list tonight. I will see if I can track this down. still not sure what to do with my humanity though. Seems kind of high for not spending them somehow. Other than a couple of bonfires that I can think about.

 

[Soulhouf]

Of course, judging by your avatar, you must be used to REALLY hardcore drop mechanics

A risk breaker's job isn't easy, is it? (the Holy Win, holy shit. Oh memories...)

@I H8 Memes:
Did you visit these places?

Spoiler

Ariamis
Oolacile

@ParityBit: active humanity increases your defense and resistances in addition to increased drop rate. So it's a good idea to keep them as long as you play carefully so that you don't loose them (use the Ring of Sacrifice to your advantage).

 

[I H8 Memes]

I have no idea where those 2 places are. Everything I've listed are the places I've seen paths too but havent taken yet.

 

[Pollux]

Last night I ended up down in the Depths, and fought this psycho butcher. I dropped down this hole behind him, and then down another hole. Immediately I was attacked and slaughtered by these mutant frogs. Then I got cursed.

2 questions:

1. Was I going the right way?

2. How do I get rid of the curse?

 

[I H8 Memes]

Last night I ended up down in the Depths, and fought this psycho butcher. I dropped down this hole behind him, and then down another hole. Immediately I was attacked and slaughtered by these mutant frogs. Then I got cursed.

2 questions:

1. Was I going the right way?

2. How do I get rid of the curse?

No you went the wrong way. Although you can get an awesome shield from the first dropdown (on a ledge above the giant rat). The way you want to go is through the water and up the debris in the room the butcher was in.

I think the female undead merchant sells stuff to cure curses. There is also a guy on a roof in New Londo ruins that cures curses. But I dont think you want to be going there any time soon.

Also, rats drop humanity and you are coming up to the best place in the game to farm humanity. Make sure you have 10 humanity in the top left counter (having 10 there maximizes drop rate), then farm the rats to as close to 99 (in your inventory not top left) as you feel like wasting your time to get.

Basically the top left humanity counter works like this

1-10 increases drop rates with 10 being maximum.
1-30 reduces chance of being cursed with 30 being maximum.
1-99 increases defense stats with 99 being maximum (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this)

But you can add item humanity to your quick items (where you Estus flasks are) to use for health. Using them completely restores health so they are pretty handy in boss fights.

 

[oracrest]

Manus is really hard at SL1. I am slowly learning his moves better, and I have managed to get him down to half health a couple of times. Typically it's his magic attacks that do me in around that time.

I think another night of tries and I'll have learned him well enough to defeated him.

 

[Pollux]

No you went the wrong way. Although you can get an awesome shield from the first dropdown (on a ledge above the giant rat). The way you want to go is through the water and up the debris in the room the butcher was in.

I think the female undead merchant sells stuff to cure curses. There is also a guy on a roof in New Londo ruins that cures curses. But I dont think you want to be going there any time soon.

Also, rats drop humanity and you are coming up to the best place in the game to farm humanity. Make sure you have 10 humanity in the top left counter (having 10 there maximizes drop rate), then farm the rats to as close to 99 (in your inventory not top left) as you feel like wasting your time to get.

Basically the top left humanity counter works like this

1-10 increases drop rates with 10 being maximum.
1-30 reduces chance of being cursed with 30 being maximum.
1-99 increases defense stats with 99 being maximum (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this)

But you can add item humanity to your quick items (where you Estus flasks are) to use for health. Using them completely restores health so they are pretty handy in boss fights.

Ok, thanks.

Also, is there anything down by the frogs or should I just avoid that area completely? I've also started wandering through the Catacombs...should I avoid that area until I ring the second bells?

 

[Mileena]

There's a mouse fix if you want to use that as well.

So this is what I have left. I think. As far as I can tell this is all thats left.

Spoiler

Great Hollow/Ash Lake
Demon Ruins
Dukes Archives
New Londo/valley of the Drakes
Catacombs

Listed them in the order I figure they should be done. Sound about right?

Four DLC areas/bosses after Dukes? Much better bosses than the vanilla game.

e: and TotG after Catacombs

 

[Seanspeed]

Ok, thanks.

Also, is there anything down by the frogs or should I just avoid that area completely? I've also started wandering through the Catacombs...should I avoid that area until I ring the second bells?

Avoid the place with the frogs for now. You'll be back in a little while.

The Catacombs are do-able but will be pretty tough.

 

[Sullichin]

Manus is really hard at SL1. I am slowly learning his moves better, and I have managed to get him down to half health a couple of times. Typically it's his magic attacks that do me in around that time.

I think another night of tries and I'll have learned him well enough to defeated him.

How the hell do you deal with his magic attacks?
I tried killing him on NG+ with great scythe +15, power within and maxed pyromancy. All is good until he does the one magic attack that starts all the way on the perimiter of the area and closes in on him. I have no idea how to dodge this. I prefer to play without a shield and I don't want to bother with the silver pendant.. because like every other boss in this game it should be beatable just with rolling/2H. 4 Kings have that one magic attack that's hard to avoid but Manus' dark magic is just ridiculous. I already burned a ring sacrifice getting clobbered by him before I could pick up my bloodstain.
Kalameet too, man I just suck at these two bosses in NG+ and their massive dark magic AOE.

Ok, thanks.

Also, is there anything down by the frogs or should I just avoid that area completely? I've also started wandering through the Catacombs...should I avoid that area until I ring the second bells?

If you encounter the frogs in the depths, you went the wrong way. Be mindful about any holes in the ground, they only lead to those bastards and some unecessary items like soul pickups and a nearly useless ring. But if you have some humanity in your counter and a decent armor the frogs aren't a threat at all, as it will take a long time to get cursed and they don't inflict any physical damage.

If you want some extra purging stones and you're on PC you can summon me

 

[Soulhouf]

If you encounter the frogs in the depths, you went the wrong way. Be mindful about any holes in the ground, they only lead to those bastards and some unecessary items like soul pickups and a nearly useless ring. But if you have some humanity in your counter and a decent armor the frogs aren't a threat at all, as it will take a long time to get cursed and they don't inflict any physical damage.

If you want some extra purging stones and you're on PC you can summon me

I actually like that ring. It's a key item for baby skeletons farming and also a good match with Chaos Blade.
Also it's very useful first time in Blighttown because thanks to the infinite spawning mosquitoes, you can basically recover as much health as you want without worrying about the poison.

 

[scissorfight]

How the hell do you deal with his magic attacks?
I tried killing him on NG+ with great scythe +15, power within and maxed pyromancy. All is good until he does the one magic attack that starts all the way on the perimiter of the area and closes in on him. I have no idea how to dodge this. I prefer to play without a shield and I don't want to bother with the silver pendant.. because like every other boss in this game it should be beatable just with rolling/2H. 4 Kings have that one magic attack that's hard to avoid but Manus' dark magic is just ridiculous. I already burned a ring sacrifice getting clobbered by him before I could pick up my bloodstain.
Kalameet too, man I just suck at these two bosses in NG+ and their massive dark magic AOE.

kalameet's attacks are pretty easy to avoid once you get the patterns down. i agree about manus, though. such a pain. the magic attacks are really hard to dodge if you're forgoing the silver pendant.

i found this video to be helpful with avoiding the magic attacks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfA-aMquCXY
i used the DWGR for the extra i-frames, too.

 

[Sullichin]

kalameet's attacks are pretty easy to avoid once you get the patterns down. i agree about manus, though. such a pain. the magic attacks are really hard to dodge if you're forgoing the silver pendant.

i found this video to be helpful with avoiding the magic attacks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfA-aMquCXY
i used the DWGR for the extra i-frames, too.

oh wow, you can actually interrupt that attack that keeps killing me. I was trying to run away from it but it looks like hitting him before the magic lands is the way to go.

As for Kalameet, the one that keeps killing me is when he jumps up and does the AOE fire attack

I should probably get silver pendant for PVP anyway. I usually don't have too much trouble against dark magic users but it would be nice to be able to deal with pursuers without running away. Do you keep it every NG cycle if you pick it up once?

Does anyone know if having kalameet available opens up the entire royal wood for gravelording or just the area with the dogs / kalameet entrance / artorias door? I'm assuming its the whole thing but you never know with gravelording. The BPs in royal wood are pretty beastly.

I actually like that ring. It's a key item for baby skeletons farming and also a good match with Chaos Blade.
Also it's very useful first time in Blighttown because thanks to the infinite spawning mosquitoes, you can basically recover as much health as you want without worrying about the poison.

Very true, it's useful in those situations. I never farm baby skeletons anymore thanks to the chasm of the abyss. It's useful for chaos blade but not when using it in PVP. But yeah in PVE it makes the chaos blade health penalty totally moot as you can one shot most mobs. I wish this game had regenerator's ring. I'd rock power within + lingering dragoncrest + regenerators ring + sanctus if that were the case.

 

[I H8 Memes]

I actually like that ring. It's a key item for baby skeletons farming and also a good match with Chaos Blade.
Also it's very useful first time in Blighttown because thanks to the infinite spawning mosquitoes, you can basically recover as much health as you want without worrying about the poison.

They dont respawn infinitely. I believe they respawn as 3 sets of 2, then 1 more. Could be slightly off with those numbers though.

 

[ParityBit]

But you can add item humanity to your quick items (where you Estus flasks are) to use for health. Using them completely restores health so they are pretty handy in boss fights.

You can do what?! How does this work? I did not know this ...

They dont respawn infinitely. I believe they respawn as 3 sets of 2, then 1 more. Could be slightly off with those numbers though.

You are correct. They do stop coming after a couple of waves.


So when I get home otnight I am going to change covents and keep all my humanity (assuming I don't die with them) I am going to join the Warriors of Sunlight as suggested. My question is, should I visit the bell tower FIRST to leave first?

 

[Sullichin]

You can do what?! How does this work? I did not know this ...



You are correct. They do stop coming after a couple of waves.


So when I get home otnight I am going to change covents and keep all my humanity (assuming I don't die with them) I am going to join the Warriors of Sunlight as suggested. My question is, should I visit the bell tower FIRST to leave first?

I've heard that leaving through Oswald in the bell tower will keep your rank in the covenant you leave, but I'm not even sure that's true. if you didnt give the spider 30 humanity already then this doesnt even matter. But you should go to him anyway and buy a couple rings of sacrifice. Then you really won't ever have to worry about losing your souls/humanity. put one on after you die, and if you die again it doesn't create a new bloodstain so the original one you were still after with all your souls/humanity is still there. If you don't die on the way back to your bloodstain, you can just take off the ring and it doesn't break. He sells 10, more than enough to give you some nice soul insurance throughout the game.

 

[ParityBit]

I've heard that leaving through Oswald in the bell tower will keep your rank in the covenant you leave, but I'm not even sure that's true. if you didnt give the spider 30 humanity already then this doesnt even matter. But you should go to him anyway and buy a couple rings of sacrifice. Then you really won't ever have to worry about losing your souls/humanity. put one on after you die, and if you die again it doesn't create a new bloodstain so the original one you were still after with all your souls/humanity is still there. If you don't die on the way back to your bloodstain, you can just take off the ring and it doesn't break. He sells 10, more than enough to give you some nice soul insurance throughout the game.

OK, good to know! Do they replenish?

Also, since I am a pyro, and my faith is not high .... how does the miracles work when joining the covenant? Would I even get the spear or will it be useful?

 

[Red Liquorice]

I actually like that ring. It's a key item for baby skeletons farming and also a good match with Chaos Blade.
Also it's very useful first time in Blighttown because thanks to the infinite spawning mosquitoes, you can basically recover as much health as you want without worrying about the poison.

Never use this ring, but these are all good ideas. I never stop learning about this game

Also, since I am a pyro, and my faith is not high .... how does the miracles work when joining the covenant? Would I even get the spear or will it be useful?

You get it just by joining, but you need 20 faith to use it. There is another more powerful one available by offering Sunlight medals too (like giving humanity to the Spider lady).

 

[Sullichin]

OK, good to know! Do they replenish?

Also, since I am a pyro, and my faith is not high .... how does the miracles work when joining the covenant? Would I even get the spear or will it be useful?

the rings don't replenish. Oswald sells 10, there's one in firelink, and you can trade the crow in the asylum for another one too. Also you probably know this already but you don't lose your souls when you die as a phantom in someone else's world, so co-op is a very safe way to farm souls/humanity.
the first miracle has a faith requirement of 20. You'll get it regardless of your faith though. It's fun to use against bosses but its not very strong.

For those with quality builds...

27/40 str/dex with the rest in vit and end, or should I sacrifice some VIT and raise FAI to 30 for sunlight blade and make a quality faith character?
Or... dare I say make an occult zweihander? I know SLB will be better but I want to try something different. I'd imagine +5 occult zwei would still be pretty beastly in PVP.Having all of the options of a quality build is nice, but I might also just make a build based around the zwei and thus wouldn't pump as much into DEX, maybe
Was thinking of using force too, not a fan of WOTG but force sounds like a good idea when i've got a zweihander. Might just make it into this quality/pyro character and forgo faith altogether, because I like using pyromancies in PVP (armor still up for debate as long as i can get 53 poise): http://mmdks.com/ybe


Speaking of the zwei, what an easy way to breeze past the beginning of the game. Start as a warrior, level up strength after you get to firelink.. after picking up the 2 soul pickups and zwei from the graveyard, you can level up enough to 2 hand it. Better than the drake sword at just +3 and better at +0 anyway because of its moveset and ability to wreck the first 3 bosses you fight with gold pine resin. I can't believe I've never used this as my primary weapon. I love the big weapons but I always avoid this one for the stupid reason that I see it far too often in PVP.

 

[Soulhouf]

They dont respawn infinitely. I believe they respawn as 3 sets of 2, then 1 more. Could be slightly off with those numbers though.

Oh, this is new. They used to respawn infinitely in the previous versions but since I don't bother with them any more I didn't notice they changed that!

I've heard that leaving through Oswald in the bell tower will keep your rank in the covenant you leave, but I'm not even sure that's true.

That's not true, at least that wasn't true in the previous versions because I thought it was the case when I reached rank 3 in Blade of the Darkmoon and needed to open the shortcut to Lost Izalith so I thought "I will leave the covenant through Oswald and come back later and my rank will remain the same". Guess what? I lost a rank. I was so pissed because it's not easy at all to reach it.
I will test that in the current version though, perhaps they changed it.

 

[Sullichin]

Oh, this is new. They used to respawn infinitely in the previous versions but since I don't bother with them any more I didn't notice they changed that!



That's not true, at least that wasn't true in the previous versions because I thought it was the case when I reached rank 3 in Blade of the Darkmoon and needed to open the shortcut to Lost Izalith so I thought "I will leave the covenant through Oswald and come back later and my rank will remain the same". Guess what? I lost a rank. I was so pissed because it's not easy at all to reach it.
I will test that in the current version though, perhaps they changed it.

Figured as much. It never worked for me in the past but I've heard it mentioned several times so I assumed it worked for somebody, but I guess not. So, there's really no reason at all to abandon through Oswald. Did you go back to rank 0 in the darkmoon covenant or only drop down to +2?

 

[toddhunter]

Oh, this is new. They used to respawn infinitely in the previous versions but since I don't bother with them any more I didn't notice they changed that!

I farmed 100 odd humanity there last night. Little buggers kept coming for me (after running back into the water)

 

[Booshka]

the rings don't replenish. Oswald sells 10, there's one in firelink, and you can trade the crow in the asylum for another one too. Also you probably know this already but you don't lose your souls when you die as a phantom in someone else's world, so co-op is a very safe way to farm souls/humanity.
the first miracle has a faith requirement of 20. You'll get it regardless of your faith though. It's fun to use against bosses but its not very strong.

For those with quality builds...

27/40 str/dex with the rest in vit and end, or should I sacrifice some VIT and raise FAI to 30 for sunlight blade and make a quality faith character?
Or... dare I say make an occult zweihander? I know SLB will be better but I want to try something different. I'd imagine +5 occult zwei would still be pretty beastly in PVP.Having all of the options of a quality build is nice, but I might also just make a build based around the zwei and thus wouldn't pump as much into DEX, maybe
Was thinking of using force too, not a fan of WOTG but force sounds like a good idea when i've got a zweihander. Might just make it into this quality/pyro character and forgo faith altogether, because I like using pyromancies in PVP (armor still up for debate as long as i can get 53 poise): http://mmdks.com/ybe


Speaking of the zwei, what an easy way to breeze past the beginning of the game. Start as a warrior, level up strength after you get to firelink.. after picking up the 2 soul pickups and zwei from the graveyard, you can level up enough to 2 hand it. Better than the drake sword at just +3 and better at +0 anyway because of its moveset and ability to wreck the first 3 bosses you fight with gold pine resin. I can't believe I've never used this as my primary weapon. I love the big weapons but I always avoid this one for the stupid reason that I see it far too often in PVP.

I wouldn't go with buffs on a quality build, you have to sacrifice too much END and VIT, by putting points into a magic skill and Attunement. Best to just crank Vit and End and rely on the very good pure physical damage you will be putting out, also, get used to switching weapons pre-fight or mid fight to deal with different builds.

Quality Pyro is very doable, because you only have to up your Dex to 45, and ATT to maybe 16 and still have plenty of END and VIT. Dex Pyro is a lot easier, because quick Dex weapons seem to complement Pyro so well, and you have less points to put into STR, and can put more into END and VIT or ATT.

Occult Faith Builds are pretty good, you need to go to 50 Faith though, so you will have to rely purely on the magical damage bonus that Occult weapon upgrade path affords, and only put min requirements in weapon stats. Replenishment is actually very good in PvP at 50 Faith, so use that pre-fight as your "buff." WoG, Force, Emit Force are all good spells, and their effectiveness is multiplied if you know how to spell cancel, so you can fake out some players and hit them unexpectedly and with spell dead angles.

In general, I don't think weapon buff builds are all that great against good players, most will just kite/block with Crest Shield until your buff runs out. The really good players will parry you when you get aggressive because they are running out your buff.

 

[oracrest]

How the hell do you deal with his magic attacks?
I tried killing him on NG+ with great scythe +15, power within and maxed pyromancy. All is good until he does the one magic attack that starts all the way on the perimiter of the area and closes in on him. I have no idea how to dodge this. I prefer to play without a shield and I don't want to bother with the silver pendant.. because like every other boss in this game it should be beatable just with rolling/2H. 4 Kings have that one magic attack that's hard to avoid but Manus' dark magic is just ridiculous. I already burned a ring sacrifice getting clobbered by him before I could pick up my bloodstain.
Kalameet too, man I just suck at these two bosses in NG+ and their massive dark magic AOE.

His one magic attack that closes in on him can be avoided by rushing him. It dissipates just before it gets to him. I learned this from watching the boxer Manus video. He kept getting me with the other one that stabs down at you, because I thought it was going to be the other one, and I rushed in, only to get assailed from the heavens with his magic attacks.

 

[Sullichin]

I wouldn't go with buffs on a quality build, you have to sacrifice too much END and VIT, by putting points into a magic skill and Attunement. Best to just crank Vit and End and rely on the very good pure physical damage you will be putting out, also, get used to switching weapons pre-fight or mid fight to deal with different builds.

Quality Pyro is very doable, because you only have to up your Dex to 45, and ATT to maybe 16 and still have plenty of END and VIT. Dex Pyro is a lot easier, because quick Dex weapons seem to complement Pyro so well, and you have less points to put into STR, and can put more into END and VIT or ATT.

Occult Faith Builds are pretty good, you need to go to 50 Faith though, so you will have to rely purely on the magical damage bonus that Occult weapon upgrade path affords, and only put min requirements in weapon stats. Replenishment is actually very good in PvP at 50 Faith, so use that pre-fight as your "buff." WoG, Force, Emit Force are all good spells, and their effectiveness is multiplied if you know how to spell cancel, so you can fake out some players and hit them unexpectedly and with spell dead angles.

In general, I don't think weapon buff builds are all that great against good players, most will just kite/block with Crest Shield until your buff runs out. The really good players will parry you when you get aggressive because they are running out your buff.

Already have a dex/pyro and it's probably my favorite pvp character. I think I will go occult faith zweihander rather than making such a similar character, and also work on leveling a more standard quality build. I agree about buff builds, it's usually pretty easy to kill an eager cmw/dmb katana user. I thought replenishment didn't scale with faith though? Still, I think I will use it.
Will make something like this...
http://mmdks.com/yd4

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Ugggggggggggh, fuck Games For Windows.

I can't for the life of me sign into this service - it keeps giving me invalid username/password bullshit. I know my account info, because I've signed into xbox.com 20 times now.

Does Steam ever give refunds? I opened a ticket hoping they will.

 

[ParityBit]

Man, I have been sitting outside Sen's boss for a while. No summons yet!!

 

[ArynCrinn]

Ahh, I figured out why I'm now getting a solid 30fps on the laptop while recording...I dropped the resolution to 720p a while back for the Blighttown texture overhaul. Weird though, my laptop is pretty decent it should have been able to handle 1600x900 at 30fps on this game... But whatever works I guess, maybe I'll start recording on one of my main rigs.

Pretty excited to see how well I'll handle O&S after my near flawless run the other day, they should go down pretty fast.

Btw, is there any way to really nullify the Four Kings magic shot by evading or dodging in any way? I'm trying the no healing, melee only, no shield, no upgrades rule set and I'm getting screwed by that attack by at least one king every time. Sometimes it seems to circle around for a bit before hitting me though so I'm guessing it disappears when the king is dead who cast it?

 

[Sullichin]

Ahh, I figured out why I'm now getting a solid 30fps on the laptop while recording...I dropped the resolution to 720p a while back for the Blighttown texture overhaul. Weird though, my laptop is pretty decent it should have been able to handle 1600x900 at 30fps on this game... But whatever works I guess, maybe I'll start recording on one of my main rigs.

Pretty excited to see how well I'll handle O&S after my near flawless run the other day, they should go down pretty fast.

Btw, is there any way to really nullify the Four Kings magic shot by evading or dodging in any way? I'm trying the no healing, melee only, no shield, no upgrades rule set and I'm getting screwed by that attack by at least one king every time. Sometimes it seems to circle around for a bit before hitting me though so I'm guessing it disappears when the king is dead who cast it?

Actually, that attack can last even if the boss is dead! I've seen a video where the player dies from it shortly after winning the fight. but, the attack does go away after several seconds so you can run away from it like its some super version of pursuers.
How the hell are you fighting them no upgrade Melee only. giant blacksmith hammer I suppose? I can't imagine doing it with just a regular reinforced club.

 

[ArynCrinn]

Actually, that attack can last even if the boss is dead! I've seen a video where the player dies from it shortly after winning the fight. but, the attack does go away after several seconds so you can run away from it like its some super version of pursuers.
How the hell are you fighting them no upgrade Melee only. giant blacksmith hammer I suppose? I can't imagine doing it with just a regular reinforced club.

Yeah, I'm using the Giant Blacksmith Hammer, no other reasonable alternative really.

But that sucks, I can't seem to get lucky enough that none of the kings will cast it, I would have won already if not for that. I may abandon the no shield rule and pull out the Darkhand, but that may mean I can't come into the fight with Red Tearstone already active... :\

 

[Seanspeed]

I farmed 100 odd humanity there last night. Little buggers kept coming for me (after running back into the water)

They spawn from several different spots, but I'm pretty sure 7 is the most that comes from any particular place. Like I H8 Memes said, 3 waves of 2, then a last loner one. I took my time when I was down there due to not being that strong and not having any good poison gear, so I would clear out enemies before moving around sometimes, just to be safe.

 

[Pollux]

Just beat the Gaping Dragon. Whoever said this game gets addicting nice it clicks as right. Holy shit. Will hit up Blight town tomorrow.

 

[Akuun]

Btw, is there any way to really nullify the Four Kings magic shot by evading or dodging in any way? I'm trying the no healing, melee only, no shield, no upgrades rule set and I'm getting screwed by that attack by at least one king every time. Sometimes it seems to circle around for a bit before hitting me though so I'm guessing it disappears when the king is dead who cast it?

I heard somewhere that the necklace you get from the DLC (the one that blocks Dark Magic) can also block the Four Kings' magic. Maybe try that?

I've never tested it myself, though.

 

[ArynCrinn]

I heard somewhere that the necklace you get from the DLC (the one that blocks Dark Magic) can also block the Four Kings' magic. Maybe try that?

I've never tested it myself, though.

That would awesome I'll try that out. Although it sort of ruins my Darkwraith hopes for this character, but if all else fails that would be cool.

 

[oracrest]

After 3 nights of trying, I finally took down Manus. Once I figured out his magic attacks, it was doable. My heart was pounding so hard when he was just down to a few hits to go!

 

[ArynCrinn]

After 3 nights of trying, I finally took down Manus. Once I figured out his magic attacks, it was doable. My heart was pounding so hard when he was just down to a few hits to go!

I know that feeling, good job! The hardest magic attack for me to dodge was the attack where you have to time the dodges going backwards. Looks like Kalameet and Gywn is all that's left for you.

My experience with the heart pounding moments is my wife's annoying cat comes out of nowhere and starts purring and rubbing up against me at the worst moments, also jumping into my lap. He knows!