polyh3dron
Banned
Dude, watch Before The Devil Knows You're Dead... it opens with Philip Seymour Hoffman doing her doggystyle.jett said:
Darren Aronofsky's 'The Wrestler'
- Thread starter RBelong2Us
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Rourke was great, but I didn't love the movie.
Evan Rachel Wood was pretty terrible, and that last scene with her threatened to sink the entire movie. What made it worse is that scene existed to
and didn't feel the slightest bit genuine as a result. That, and the horrid overacting pushed it way way into schmaltz-ville.
So much of this movie seemed calculated to make you feel bad.
That sort of manipulation just irks me. Felt like the screenwriter had an ending and worked backwards rather than let the story tell itself organically.
And so much of this movie is so good. Too bad.
Evan Rachel Wood was pretty terrible, and that last scene with her threatened to sink the entire movie. What made it worse is that scene existed to
set up the FINAL MATCH
So much of this movie seemed calculated to make you feel bad.
Randy can't end up with Tomei or happily reunited with his daughter because then he would have no reason to go back in the ring and provide us with the movie's downbeat ending?
And so much of this movie is so good. Too bad.
Mifune said:
The whole point of the movie was that
Randy couldn't live outside of the ring. It's not something that the writer just pulled out of his ass at the end, it was built up to throughout the entire film.
And I don't find the film's ending too depressing, and nowhere near as manipulative as something like Million Dollar Baby. Sure he died (or we're led to believe he did), but what's cooler than getting to go out in a blaze of glory, doing what you love?
And I don't find the film's ending too depressing, and nowhere near as manipulative as something like Million Dollar Baby. Sure he died (or we're led to believe he did), but what's cooler than getting to go out in a blaze of glory, doing what you love?
Blader5489 said:
Yes, that was the point. You're right.
But the "depressing" beats in the movie felt false to me, like they were shoehorned in so that it all added up to that point.
It was clear where the movie was headed from the beginning. This guy loved wrestling and nothing was going to keep him out of the ring. "Real life" just wasn't for him. And that's all cool. But we didn't need all the melodramatic arguments with his daughter and friend to lead him there.
Mifune said:
Those arguments are exactly why Randy has no life outside of wrestling; they reinforce that theme. If he were capable of making up with his daughter or sticking with his stripper friend, then that would defeat the whole point of the movie. If he's capable of forging real relationships with the people around him, then he is capable of living outside the ring.
Blader5489 said:
But I guess my point is
it was pretty clear he couldn't forge any real relationships even without the histrionic freakouts. I mean, that whole "I never want to see you again" bit didn't register with me at all because it was so overplayed.
The deli counter scenes and Nintendo playing really did a much better and more subtle job of showing his isolation.
The deli counter scenes and Nintendo playing really did a much better and more subtle job of showing his isolation.
youngleaves
Banned
Does it have that "Aronofsky style" in other words, if you see Pi, Requiem for a dream, or The fountain, you can tell its Aronofsky. I would never guess he had made this film from watching the trailer, does his style come through?
Superblatt
Member
I've been waiting for this to hit theaters for months, and finally saw it today with my wife. Rourke's performance is being spoken about everywhere, and for good reason. I don't think I've ever seen an actor so embody a character. At no point did I ever think that Rourke wasn't Randy in real life. In fact, I'd swear that Rourke must actually be a professional wrestler who happened to stumble into movies. The performance is THAT good.
In terms of the story, I really appreciated it. Is it simple? Yes -- it's about a professional wrestler. How complicated could it be? However, the character development of Randy is extremely complex, layered and deep enough to drive the entire film. Tomei was more than adequate as the stripper friend, and the daughter's performance was fine too. For those that are criticizing either of those characters, keep in mind that this is a true character piece. In other words, the family history/melodrama is only contained to Randy. If a side character interacts with him, and there's something relevant for them to say that drives Randy's story, then you might possibly find out more about that side character. Otherwise, they play second fiddle...just as they should.
Great movie, highly recommended.
In terms of the story, I really appreciated it. Is it simple? Yes -- it's about a professional wrestler. How complicated could it be? However, the character development of Randy is extremely complex, layered and deep enough to drive the entire film. Tomei was more than adequate as the stripper friend, and the daughter's performance was fine too. For those that are criticizing either of those characters, keep in mind that this is a true character piece. In other words, the family history/melodrama is only contained to Randy. If a side character interacts with him, and there's something relevant for them to say that drives Randy's story, then you might possibly find out more about that side character. Otherwise, they play second fiddle...just as they should.
Great movie, highly recommended.
youngleaves said:
Some of it's there. You can definately tell he's behind it, but -- if you really like the movies you listed (as I do) -- you'll wonder, at the end, why Aronofsky even made this movie.
As I said earlier, it's not as if the film is bad -- Rourke is great, and the film is, technically, well-made -- it's just that it's so much more mainstream and (I might dare to say) been-there-done-that territory for Aronofsky. Most of his movies are very engaging, insightful, horrific, or existential. Take away Rourke's great preformance, and you're left with another Rocky Balboa.
RBelong2Us
Member
wow wow wow, awesome movie.
Spoo said:
The Fountain was a financial disaster ($35M budget; $15M worldwide BO intake) and was lukewarm at best with critics (I myself love the movie dearly, but Im not so blind as to ignore that it was often panned), so Aronofsky probably had little choice but to go a little more mainstream to rebound a bit.
Pi and Requiem both also hardly set the box office on fire, but they both also had much smaller budgets than The Fountain did.
Superblatt
Member
2DMention said:
Pretty good? Pretty good for 44?
Seriously...PRETTY GOOD? :lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp4pJ-mEmE4
AluminumRod
Banned
Mifune said:
I kinda saw it as the opposite. He wants "Real Life" but can't achieve it or can't accept it's a possibility, so he opts to stay in the ring, not because he wants to, but because he thinks has nothing else.
Superblatt
Member
AluminumRod said:
Exactly. He desparely WANTS a "real life" and tries really hard to achieve it. He tries to fix the relationship with his daughter, he tries to have a relationship with Marisa Tomei and even accepts that he can't wrestle anymore and retires. I think that's the very definition of trying to change your life. He didn't want to hang on anymore, so he decided to try to change things.
However, it turned out to be impossible, and he knew it and accepted his fate.
However, it turned out to be impossible, and he knew it and accepted his fate.
Blader5489 said:
That's how I feel about it too. Not at any point of the movie did I think "Man, Randy's got a lot in common with Rocky Balboa". It's a totally different struggle Randy's going through. Even with you take old Rocky from the last movie, it doesn't equate to me. Just because both men are old, doesn't mean they're going through the same thing. Old Rocky was doing just fine for himself, he didn't need to go back into the ring to box. Fighting the younger boxer was almost like a small battle for him.
I'd say Randy has more in common with Paulie! Seriously.
Memphis Reigns
Member
I'm a huge HUGE fan of Pi, Requiem, and the Fountain, like all of you. And just like all of you, I want to see this movie--a lot. So does anyone know when this will hit mainstream? I live in Phoenix, and I thought it was coming here...anyone know the scoop on that?
Dr. Strangelove
I'M COOCOO FOR COCO CRISP!
I saw this last night. I thought it was pretty solid, if unspectacular. This feels like a movie made for "smart mark" wrestling fans above all else. Being a huge wrestling fan growing up, I was in love with the concept form the get-go and was able to overlook the numerous shortcomings of The Wrestler-- namely the underdeveloped female roles and melodrama. Being a character piece, Rourke owned this movie and really became Randy "The Ram."
Davey Cakes
Member
She's absolutely AMAZING for 44.2DMention said:
Dr. Strangelove
I'M COOCOO FOR COCO CRISP!
I'm curious-- did this film improve your opinion of pro wrestling, hurt it, or neither? Watching this film I wondered if it would be able to change the way non-fans think about wrestling.Blader5489 said:
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
Just watched it.
Phenomenal film.
The ending was so amazing.
Micky Rourke needs the Oscar asap.
Phenomenal film.
The ending was so amazing.
Micky Rourke needs the Oscar asap.
Just to clear up the "The Wrester" / "Rocky Balboa" comparisons I made earlier -- and yes, I'm specifically talking about Rocky Balboa; I don't think the other movies in the series really qualify.
It's thematically similar, but not easily compared in terms of what happens, story-wise, in the movies. It's just the idea of old, broken, used-up warriors losing what made them, and that process of finding themselves again. The scenarios are different; the Ram is still trucking,
I hope that clears up why I consider them similar. It's not so much about the scenario so much as it is two old heroes in their respective fields feeling a little alienated by the world they live in for slightly different reasons. Both stories are wrapped up well. I didn't care for The Wrestler as an Aronofsky movie (I much prefer his other attempts, even though, as stated, they were hardly box office knockouts). I do think Roarke did a fine job, though, and I wouldn't be sad at all if he is recognized for it.
Though, Sean Penn (Milk) and Leo DiCaprio (Revolutionary Road) gave incredible preformances this year, and I wouldn't be sad to see ANY of them get recognized!
It's thematically similar, but not easily compared in terms of what happens, story-wise, in the movies. It's just the idea of old, broken, used-up warriors losing what made them, and that process of finding themselves again. The scenarios are different; the Ram is still trucking,
but faces a health problem which makes him think twice about what he should be doing with his life. Should he reconnect with lost loved ones? Can he even manage that? He eventually discovers that he has to follow through with his true calling, and the movie maintains an emphasis on the process he goes through to realize that. Rocky is an old hero haunted by memories of what he was, and ultimately goes back to it since it's such a strong part of who he is. He has his own resturaunt where he tells old stories about his past. The two characters are lost in their past because they don't feel much for the present state of their lives.
I hope that clears up why I consider them similar. It's not so much about the scenario so much as it is two old heroes in their respective fields feeling a little alienated by the world they live in for slightly different reasons. Both stories are wrapped up well. I didn't care for The Wrestler as an Aronofsky movie (I much prefer his other attempts, even though, as stated, they were hardly box office knockouts). I do think Roarke did a fine job, though, and I wouldn't be sad at all if he is recognized for it.
Though, Sean Penn (Milk) and Leo DiCaprio (Revolutionary Road) gave incredible preformances this year, and I wouldn't be sad to see ANY of them get recognized!
Buckethead
Banned
DevelopmentArrested said:
Yep. So we got....
Best Picture - Curious Case of Benjamin Button
Best Actor - Mickey Rourke
Best Supporting Actor- Heath Ledger
Best Actress - Kate Winslet
Best Supporting Actress - ???
Best Director - Maybe Aranofsky??
That's my 2 cents.
Blader5489 said:
But sometimes those uncomplicated decisions that seem so obvious are actually really hard to make. Aronofsky allowed the script and the characters to breathe, to come to life on their own. For that, I think Aronofsky deserves huge credit.
On the subject Benjamin Button being best picture--- there's too much that could have been done to improve that movie. I would easily pick Slumdog ahead of it. What's sad is that the Dark Knight really has the components of a best picture nomination, and I hope it gets the nod.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
i saw it mebbe being a gamer and wrestling fan but
the saddest part was
and the ending
I know it sounds sappy but after seeing the movie I feel guilty as a former wrestling fan (dont watch it currently anymore, sans a dvd release here or there) for supporting this stuff........ Vince needs a pension system and an off season, very sad.
the saddest part was
poor mickey after his heart attack, all he has is an old Nintendo and asks his kid friend if he wants to play, and the kid is talking up call of duty 4 i couldn't help but feel bad for ram like hes thinking "wow that sounds really cool i wish i had an xbox", like he cant afford even a decent game system and no one wants to play with him anymore ................I guess being a kid who didn't have very much growing up it hit me closer to home :[
and the ending
was such a downer, he coulda had a good life with that girl, and her son *the way he was playing with the action figure*, but it was just too late by that point, sad, great movie, but i felt awful after watching it.
I know it sounds sappy but after seeing the movie I feel guilty as a former wrestling fan (dont watch it currently anymore, sans a dvd release here or there) for supporting this stuff........ Vince needs a pension system and an off season, very sad.
Okay i saw this movie. It's based on Jake the snake roberts. It's REALLY similar to his life (though Jake is still alive.
First let me get this out of the way (major spoiler):
I used to be a major wrestling lover and i thought that this movie was really accurate. I'm glad they don't think that the audience is stupid and they don't bother to hide the fact that it's all fake but the injuries are real. I thought the daughter bit was the weakest part of the movie (mainly cause of her overacting). The Ram was excellent, so was Pam. And god, Marissa Tomei is a hottie.
I'm so glad that idiot of an actor, Nicholas Cage was nowhere to be seen in this movie.
You guys need to see beyond the mat if you haven't already. It's Jake the snake's story and you can see how accurate this movie is when it comes to the real life aspect of wrestling. Oh and I particular found this one clip hillarious. Jake is about to see his daughter for the first time in whatever amount of year and this is his reaction:
Skip to 1:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBgqkKi4Vzs
First let me get this out of the way (major spoiler):
You must be a complete moron if you need the director to actually tell you that the ram dies at the end of the movie. It's not open ended at all, it's blatantly obvious. His heart can't take it anymore, it's broken emotionally (when he looks and Pam is gone) and physically. He gets on top of the third rope, everything is hazy, he looks and gives his final salute to the crowd and then he plunges to his death. There's no doubt about it all.
I used to be a major wrestling lover and i thought that this movie was really accurate. I'm glad they don't think that the audience is stupid and they don't bother to hide the fact that it's all fake but the injuries are real. I thought the daughter bit was the weakest part of the movie (mainly cause of her overacting). The Ram was excellent, so was Pam. And god, Marissa Tomei is a hottie.
I'm so glad that idiot of an actor, Nicholas Cage was nowhere to be seen in this movie.
You guys need to see beyond the mat if you haven't already. It's Jake the snake's story and you can see how accurate this movie is when it comes to the real life aspect of wrestling. Oh and I particular found this one clip hillarious. Jake is about to see his daughter for the first time in whatever amount of year and this is his reaction:
Skip to 1:10 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBgqkKi4Vzs
Ok to add to the discussion of Darren. his masterpiece so far so to speak is definitely requiem, Pi is just too ridiculous for me, and the fountain is very melodramatic and almost pretentious. It had some awesome ideas, but I just never got really into it. However his work in requiem was pretty incredible. Definitely looking forward to checking out the wrestler though.
Proc said:
It's a little melodramatic at times, but it does such an amazing job at what it set out to do. It's one of the most devastating movies I've ever seen and I don't see how someone could argue that. However I haven't been affected by any of aronofsky's work nearly as much. like I said Pi was just way too ridiculous and over the top, and the fountain was very pretentious and just so strange, I liked it, but definitely didn't love it.
just saw the wrestler, and I must join the crowd in Rourke praise. The man owned the film. I don't know if I have a peculiar view of wrestling (never really cared about it, "it's fake fighting"), but all the wrestling fights in this film were really hard to watch in my opinion. It is all so loosely orchestrated, haphazardly really, and the wrestlers get really beaten to shit, and everyone expects it - the crowd is just as much a actor in the play, rooting for the good guy and chanting, cheering and booing where they should, even taking part in the fight
. And after the fight there are no hard feelings about the pain, everybody were friends and co-workers,
. I thought that part of the movie was very well realized and made wrestling appear like a huge drain on Randy. After he
I was hoping he
.
Marisa Tomei was splendid as well, especially the last stripper scene she looked insanely good.
I'm rambling here, but I really liked it. The daughter overacting didn't bother me really, it could be better, but what you gon do?
like that one dude who offered up his leg in place of a chair
contrasting his non-lethal job at the deli
retires
wouldn't go back on it and go through with the re-union fight
Marisa Tomei was splendid as well, especially the last stripper scene she looked insanely good.
I'm rambling here, but I really liked it. The daughter overacting didn't bother me really, it could be better, but what you gon do?
Coin Return
Loose Slot
Talk about depressing, when Randy goes up for the final Ram Jam, looks toward the curtain, and Pam/Cassidy isn't there.
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
eLGee said:
He's kinda right.
Yes Slumdog Millionaire deserves best pic.
Rourke for best actor.
Winslet for actress (even though RR sucked)
koam said:
Of course he dies, for our sins. The Passion of the Christ, Jesus hair, barbed wire glass and staples, a big bloody gash on his side, the ram necklace, action figure stuck to the dashboard, even his rival in fake combat is another religious figure. Of course maybe that means at the end of the movie he is actually ascending to heaven when he leaps off the rope...
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