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[C- Warrior]

I got this from IGN, (a trust-worthy poster) it's from the new Gameinformer. Now, Jaffe (creator of masterpieces such as Twisted Metal, Twisted Metal 2, Twisted Metal Black) has made 'edgy' comments before. He certainly seems confident in his beliefs (which you know, is a good thing) so I don't think his direct comments wouldn't come -that- much of a surprise.


Jaffe:
This is from the most recent Game Informer. He doesn't call out a specific person but he said that anybody even suggesting that the PS3 and 360 are close to the same level from a technical standpoint is on crack. He claims that the PS3 is far and away more powerful than the 360 and it's stupid for anyone to suggest otherwise.


Carmack:
Interestingly enough, in the same issue of Game Informer they interview Carmack. He says that he prefers the 360 CPU over the PS3 CPU. He said that while he will eventually make something for the PS3 next gen, he prefers the 360 over the PS3 by small margin. One of his specific statments was that "for the people that try to make it sound like the PS3 is going to be an order of magnitude better than anything else, it's just not true."

Not sure if this has been posted before, but with all the TGS 'vs' shit going on I wouldn't be surprised if it has. Many pardons if so.

 

[Wario64]

sounds like moneyhats are involved somewhere...

 

[n3mo_toad]

Hmm. Who to believe--the guy that has made a career making games for sony, or the guy who is considered one of the greatest PC devs in the world who, in the past, has vocally had NO love lost for microsoft whatsoever. Think I'll go with Carmack. :lol

 

[monchi-kun]

David jaffe - will only make games for PS3
Carmack - will make games for both PS3 and X360

hmmm, i'd listen to the man who actually has the ABILITY to work on both platforms (once he does anyways)

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Yeah, call me a Sony sheeple; but Carmack is a PC developer. It's no wonder he'd prefer the Microsoft product.

We saw the same bitching about consoles from PC developers at the beginning of this generation too. =_=

 

[Kamille]

VERY interesting.

 

[Speevy]

I'll go with the guy who doesn't make first party games, and created an entire genre, and engines.

 

[krypt0nian]

Yeah, call me a Sony sheeple; but Carmack is a PC developer. It's no wonder he'd prefer the Microsoft product.

We saw the same bitching about consoles from PC developers at the beginning of this generation too. =_=

Umm the 360 is no more a "PC" than the PS3 so you have no point.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Meh, we'ill find out in like another year or so.....it's going to be a long year...

 

[Red Scarlet]

Sign me up for "wait and see/probably won't be able to tell anyway".

 

[Mrbob]

I got this from IGN, the person claims it's from the new Gameinformer. Now, Jaffe (creator of masterpieces such as Twisted Metal, Twisted Metal 2, Twisted Metal Black) [/I]

Not sure if this has been posted before, but with all the TGS 'vs' shit going on I wouldn't be surprised if it has. Many pardons if so.

You forgot a game and I know you did that on purpose! :lol

Anyway, to be honest, I don't really trust either one. Jaffe works for Sony. Many PC developers have done nothing but bitch and whine about next gen, especially regarding PS3, so I take any statement with a grain of salt. I'd rather ask Kojima at the moment who is producing the goods on a next gen console instead of just talking about it.

 

[trmas]

This is because Carmack is a PC developer. Dude has no idea how to deal with the new architecture of the PS3, and most PC developers seems to prefer MS. This is why the XBox had so many FPS games.

Carmack has lost his touch if you look at his latest titles, and I could care less what a PC developer thinks about either box. Let's see what Sega, Capcom, or Konami have to say about the matter.

 

[C- Warrior]

I follow David's blog a lot, and he really seems like an honest guy. He's openly credited other games for the inspiration for his titles(a rarity in the ego driven industry) he's openly critized journalists, magazines, other developers, ESRB, and Sony itself.

Jaffe himself might not be a tech. savvy guy, but I'm sure he works with a lot of talented people that are; then just spread what he heard. Given how impressive some of his titles have looked, to say he works with talented artists and designers is not an exaggeration by any means.

Personally, I've been on the same boat since next-gen was first discussed. Exclusive games from talented developers will look head and shoulders better, that is all.

 

[Kleegamefan]

In my opinion, Next-gen begins with PS3

Yeah, supposedly X360=PS3, but the realtime PS3 stuff is CONSISTANLY better looking than most X360 games.......to me, the onus is heavily on MS at this point in time...

This post from another thread sums it up so well:

For those defending the 360, may I ask a question? Why are you doing so? Fuck, demand more for your dollars. Can/will the 360 deliver content on this level sometime down the line? Who the hell knows, the point is MS is giving us ZERO indication to that fact. So you know what? They deserve to be reamed. They deserve to be made to look like the fools that they are. The more we yell at them, the more we call them out for what they are, the better chance that they'll wake up and deliver the best they can. Don't fucking downplay this amazing MGS4 trailer in some sort of messed up effort to perserve the competition between the two systems, or to give MS a 17th chance to impress us. Let them know that this is what we want! This is the next-gen, and MS, you better fucking deliver it too!

I'm absolutely flabbergasted at the absolute shit showing the 360 had at TGS after the ass-reaming they took at E3. I thought that would have made them realize Sony is here to play, and they need to bring out their big guns as well. If they don't show something of monstrous magnitude before their launch (at X05 I guess, that's all that's left), then they deserve to suffer the wrath of the hardcore gaming community's disapproval. Why in any way should we accept the shit MS has thrown at us when Sony is showing us EACH AND EVERY TIME they show the PS3 what next-gen gaming can look like? And don't give me that 'competition is good for us' BS. It's not enough for MS to simply exist in this industry, they need to compete as well, or they should just get the fuck out of dodge.

MS needs to step up and prove that the continual benefit of the doubt many here are giving them is justified. This is getting god damn ridiculous, and those hanging on to the 360 chanting the 'it might be good, it might be good' shit need to stop. None of us have bought any of the systems, and thus none of us are financially commited to any of 'em. Now is our chance to call 'em out, and demand they fucking step it up. No more hand-holding. If it were the other way around, I guarantee Sony would be getting eaten alive on these very boards.

I am a big fan of JC, but his quotes about physics in next gen games is also pretty questionable in light of recent PS3 demos...

If he thinks advanced physics wont make a big diffrence in future games, he just isn't imaginative enough no matter how smart he is

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Yeah, call me a Sony sheeple; but Carmack is a PC developer. It's no wonder he'd prefer the Microsoft product.

Carmack sure loves that Direct3D, doesn't he?

 

[Diffense]

What is a David Jaf?

 

[monchi-kun]

You forgot a game and I know you did that on purpose! :lol

Anyway, to be honest, I don't really trust either one. Jaffe works for Sony. PC developers have done nothing but bitch and whine about next gen, especially regarding PS3, so I take any statement with a grain of salt. I'd rather ask Kojima at the moment who is producing the goods on a next gen console instead of just talking about it.

how are you 100% sure that carmack hasn't had a chance to evaluate and possibly be working on games for both systems?

 

[Mrbob]

Tiburon thinks the PS3 is more powerful too.

So I guess we got Tiburon & Jaffe versus Carmack at the moment.

ow are you 100% sure that carmack hasn't had a chance to evaluate and possibly be working on games for both systems?

Oh, I'm sure he has. But the PS3 isn't going to let developers reuse their archaic code (Neither should X360 though) so this is a sticking point.

 

[jett]

Carmack has been bitching about the PS3 a lot lately. He can shut the fuck up until he makes a game comparable to MGS4.

 

[n3mo_toad]

Yeah, call me a Sony sheeple; but Carmack is a PC developer. It's no wonder he'd prefer the Microsoft product.

We saw the same bitching about consoles from PC developers at the beginning of this generation too. =_=

Uh, you DO know Carmack's hatred for all things DirectX, right? The man has got no love lost for Billy Gates there. Don't expect him to stake his reputation on their account, he's got no reason to (and nothing to gain from it, really)

And the X360 is as close to a PC as . . . well . . . a mac. Hell, I think the PS3 actually has more USB ports. :lol Carmack is pretty highly respected in the industry as a programmer and engine designer (whether you like Doom3 or not notwithstanding, he's got his noteriety for a reason). So I'll take his word over a 1st or 2nd party developer's any day.

Edit:

Carmack has been bitching about the PS3 a lot lately. He can shut the fuck up until he makes a game comparable to MGS4.

and you have played this game? tell me, where can I find the demo?

Oh, and before blaming Carmack for Quake 4--that's Raven's vietnam, not Id's.

 

[C- Warrior]

You forgot a game and I know you did that on purpose! :lol

 

[Reilly]

Carmack is just mad because Quake 4 looks like shit on 360

 

[monchi-kun]

Carmack has been bitching about the PS3 a lot lately. He can shut the fuck up until he makes a game comparable to MGS4.

i assume you meant "visually" right...since nobody here has had a chance to play the game

 

[krypt0nian]

Carmack has been bitching about the PS3 a lot lately. He can shut the fuck up until he makes a game comparable to MGS4.

Unless MGS4 turns out as shitty as MSG2 right?

If you want to say MGS3, you have a point. That was FANTASTIC!

 

[Raven.]

Carmack:
Interestingly enough, in the same issue of Game Informer they interview Carmack. He says that he prefers the 360 CPU over the PS3 CPU. He said that while he will eventually make something for the PS3 next gen, he prefers the 360 over the PS3 by small margin. One of his specific statments was that "for the people that try to make it sound like the PS3 is going to be an order of magnitude better than anything else, it's just not true."

Games like MGS4 are indeed at least an order of magnitude beyond turds like the next quake

 

[trmas]

Carmack is just mad because Quake 4 looks like shit

Fixed

 

[monchi-kun]

who's fault is it if a game looks bad....the engine programer or the artist...or both?

 

[dark10x]

Carmack is an amazing programmer, but I'm not sure what to make of this...

He really just doesn't seem to like the architecture of the PS3 hardware (mainly Cell). I do think he is actually going to end up being correct about the similarities of the two. Unlike last gen, they both are capable of pretty much the same features across the board. It will come down to how well it can use all of them.

Unless MGS4 turns out as shitty as MSG2 right?

Could we stop with the MGS2 bashing?

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Carmack sure loves that Direct3D, doesn't he?

Why do I get the feeling the answer to that is Carmack loves Direct3D as much as I love PC developers rubbish efforts at console programming?

 

[Mrbob]

who's fault is it if a game looks bad....the engine programer or the artist...or both?

In the case of Quake 4 I would say both. Game has bad art direction, plus the engine is rooted in Direct X7.

 

[jett]

Unless MGS4 turns out as shitty as MSG2 right?

If you want to say MGS3, you have a point. That was FANTASTIC!

:lol Speevy am owned even further. I noticed your stealth edit, btw.

 

[C- Warrior]

who's fault is it if a game looks bad....the engine programer or the artist...or both?

Depends on the game.

To me, Okami looks better than a lot of next-gen titles, mostly due to it's unique art style.

In Quake 4's case I'd say everyone is fucking up.

PS: MGS2 wasn't a bad game. Raiden is lame, the story was dumb as fuck, but it had great visuals and solid gameplay.

 

[Error]

i assume you meant "visually" right...since nobody here has had a chance to play the game

do you honestly think MGS4 will suck gameplay wise? please try again

 

[Lazy8s]

More than that: the X360 is actually a lot less like a PC for graphics than the PS3 with its MEMEXPORT accessibility, 3D memory, and unified shader model.

 

[monchi-kun]

do you honestly think MGS4 will suck gameplay wise? please try again

have we forgotten about Metal Gear Solid 2 already?????

 

[Mrbob]

Carmack is an amazing programmer, but I'm not sure what to make of this...

He really just doesn't seem to like the architecture of the PS3 hardware (mainly Cell). I do think he is actually going to end up being correct about the similarities of the two. Unlike last gen, they both are capable of pretty much the same features across the board. It will come down to how well it can use all of them.


Could we stop with the MGS2 bashing?

I suppose so. Carmack isn't too interested in next generation physics so the extra floating point processing will go to waste in PLAYSTATION 3.

 

[Lord Error]

Tiburon thinks the PS3 is more powerful too.

So I guess we got Tiburon & Jaffe versus Carmack at the moment.



Oh, I'm sure he has. But the PS3 isn't going to let developers reuse their archaic code (Neither should X360 though) so this is a sticking point.

Note that Carmack never said the PS3 is less powerful or even equal.

He just says that PS3 is not an order of magnitude more powerful.

That he prefers working with Xbox 360 devkit doesn't tell anything about what hardware is more powerful.

have we forgotten about Metal Gear Solid 2 already?????

I at least haven't. I clearly remember the gameplay in that game was pretty damn awesome.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

The bungie dude said there was barely any difference.


I guess ppl who program for one platform only will look at everything with rose tinted glasses from their perspective.


only time will tell.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

And the X360 is as close to a PC as . . . well . . . a mac.

Close enough.

Carmack is pretty highly respected in the industry as a programmer and engine designer (whether you like Doom3 or not notwithstanding, he's got his noteriety for a reason). So I'll take his word over a 1st or 2nd party developer's any day.

I'll take the opinion of the guy who develops the games I tend to enjoy, over that of the guy who doesn't. Crazy, but true.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

have we forgotten about Metal Gear Solid 2 already?????

Nothing wrong with the gameplay, it was fantastic, but the codecs...yeah...

 

[Kleegamefan]

Carmack sure loves that Direct3D, doesn't he?

He's an Open GL whore........in that case, he should like the nVidia RSX, at least...

 

[C- Warrior]

have we forgotten about Metal Gear Solid 2 already?????

>_<

 

[Red Scarlet]

What is a David Jaf?

David Jaffe worked on God of War or something, and he posts here.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Nothing wrong with the gameplay, it was fantastic, but the codecs...yeah...

Im sure it will go like this. . .

Ultra badass geriatric Solid Snake falls down and breaks his hip. Cue long ass codec scenes, and Raiden coming in to save his old ass. MGS2:Redux!

 

[Error]

have we forgotten about Metal Gear Solid 2 already?????

MGS2 downfall was the plot not gameplay.

edit: nevermind HomerSimpson-Man already said it.

 

[Mrbob]

He's an Open GL whore........in that case, he should like the nVidia RSX, at least...

You would think so. This is where I'm confused by his statements. Well whatever. I'm not too big a fan of id games, anyway. So I probably won't buy it regardless of the project being on PS3 or X360.

 

[sirris]

Jaff is a first party developer for Sony. Why in Gods good name would he say the competition is compairable? And considering that fact he has no developing experience on 360 who is he to call a statement like that? David is gonna support his camp 100%. Lord knows they sign his check. For the record I've also read past interviews with that tool where he says Xbox graphical tech is entirely possible on PS2. Hes full of crap. Also Gears of War is running SINGLE CORE. Wait till they start using the other 2.

 

[dark10x]

have we forgotten about Metal Gear Solid 2 already?????

Of course not, it was one of my favorite games this generation. Why would I forget about it?

 

[Speevy]

David Jaffe worked on God of War or something, and he posts here.

Awesome. He should come to this thread and bash Carmack.

 

[monchi-kun]

MGS2 downfall was the plot not gameplay.

edit: nevermind HomerSimpson-Man already said it.

i found it hard separating the two, the plot was part of the gameplay experience.