• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

David Jaffe comments on the 360/PS3 (heated words is an understatement)

Kleegamefan said:
In my opinion, Next-gen begins with PS3 :)

Yeah, supposedly X360=PS3, but the realtime PS3 stuff is CONSISTANLY better looking than most X360 games.......to me, the onus is heavily on MS at this point in time...


http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=9914

Microsoft received some criticism after E3 for showcasing its titles on hardware which, it claimed, only represented 25 to 30 per cent of the power of the final Xbox 360 - while Sony had more advanced development kits for the PS3, despite being at least six months further from launch.

The developers making games for the Xbox 360 have had shit to work with with the exception of two weeks ago, when final development kits were issued. They handled this time leading up to the launch in a very bad way. Things will be evened up very soon.

There is nothing to make up, gloss over, nothing like that. What we see for the launch of the X360 will look like shit this time next year on the X360. That is a promise.
 
Microsoft is no stranger to having developers say things like this.

If you watch the "making of" feature for Jade Empire, Bioware says what they were trying to do was simply not possible on non-Xbox systems. Next generation, I bet they will make a PS3 game. Unfortunately we won't have the Twisted Metal developer making games for other platforms.
 
monchi-kun said:
i found it hard separating the two, the plot was part of the gameplay experience.


Exactly...I had to try 3 times to actually finish it. After MGS' greatness it felt like a kick in the teeth. Thank god he redeemed himself with the glory of MGS3.
 
Speevy said:
Microsoft is no stranger to having developers say things like this.

If you watch the "making of" feature for Jade Empire, Bioware says what they were trying to do was simply not possible on non-Xbox systems. Next generation, I bet they will make a PS3 game. Unfortunately we won't have the Twisted Metal developer making games for other platforms.


Yeah, well, memory restrictions lead to many problems between ports or some games. That's why you had the PS2 version of Chaos Theory hacked up on PS2 versus Xbox. Or many games were built around PS2 and its 32 megs of ram and brought to XBox.

With Xbox 360 and PS3, they both had 512MB of ram so there shouldn't be a huge issue.

XBox 360 could have ran into the same problems as the PS2 had they stuck with 256MB of ram. But with 512 things should be comparable.

Damn, I guess I agree with Carmack after all despite my bitching.
 
HomerSimpson-Man said:
Nothing wrong with the gameplay, it was fantastic, but the codecs...yeah...

Yeah...and anyway, what the fuck haters!?. Get with the program. Here's a checklist for you:

-No more codecs in MGS4
-No more birdseye cam. Third person for the win.
-Story in MGS3 was fucking awesome. Kojima learned his lesson from MGS2.

What else do you want? You have nothing left to bitch about.
 
Red Scarlet said:
David Jaffe worked on God of War or something, and he posts here.

Thanks, cuz I really had no clue. Interesting if he worked on XBox360 and thinks PS3 is in a different league.
 
jett said:
Yeah...and anyway, what the fuck haters!?. Get with the program. Here's a checklist for you:

-No more codecs in MGS4
-No more birdseye cam. Third person for the win.
-Story in MGS3 was fucking awesome. Kojima learned his lesson from MGS2.

What else do you want? You have nothing left to bitch about.

please don't confuse "hating" and "reserving judgement"....you're jizzing all over the place and you haven't even seen all the details about the game yet.
 
I'll give everyone one guess how much weight someone like Carmack or Gabe's opinions on console hardware and development has with console engineers...
 
Diffense said:
Thanks, cuz I really had no clue. Interesting if he worked on XBox360 and thinks PS3 is in a different league.
He's a game designer/director, and a non-tech person. If anything, he's probably just saying something that he's heard from some more tech inclined sources.

As for Carmack, again, he never said PS3 is less powerful or even just equal.
More to the point, he's actually criticized architectures of both X360 and PS3. From what I remember reading, he said he wasn't too happy about either CPU, only less happy about programming for Cell. His talk was more about ease of programming than of power/capability.
 
monchi-kun said:
please don't confuse "hating" and "reserving judgement"....you're jizzing all over the place and you haven't even seen all the details about the game yet.

Sorry but using MGS2 as an example that MGS4 might be shitty is like saying Rare's future games are going to be shit because Grabbed by the Ghoulies sucked.
 
I will believe if the word is come from MGS Team , FF Team , Biohazard Team or any Team who produce the really really good game with stunning graphic.

No offence , but I never see the (really) good developers do comparation between each platform , it's too ridiculous
 
jett said:
Yeah...and anyway, what the fuck haters!?. Get with the program. Here's a checklist for you:

-No more codecs in MGS4
-No more birdseye cam. Third person for the win.
-Story in MGS3 was fucking awesome. Kojima learned his lesson from MGS2.

What else do you want? You have nothing left to bitch about.

I had never smiled so wide when GAF actually voted MGS3 for game of the year 2004, that says a lot. The game is freakin' brilliant, screw haters up the ass!!
 
When Carmack actually produces something that is better than the toilet paper I wipe with, I might respect his opinion. Dude is a one-shot wonder, who can't cut it anymore.

I care more what Square, Capcom, Konami, etc think because they actually make good games.
 
jett said:
Sorry but using MGS2 as an example that MGS4 might be shitty is like saying Rare's future games are going to be shit because Grabbed by the Ghoulies sucked.

That is the loosest, wrong headed analogy on GAF in weeks.

The King crapped out on MGS2. It can happen again. Happened to Miyamoto a few times now.

Again no one said MGS4 will suck. But don't count your chickens when sometimes they seem to be born deaf and blind.

HomerSimpson-Man said:
I had never smiled so wide when GAF actually voted MGS3 for game of the year 2004, that says a lot. The game is freakin' brilliant, screw haters up the ass!!

Same here but MGS2 still sucked great ass. MGS3 couldn't change the past.
 
krypt0nian said:
That is the loosest, wrong headed analogy on GAF in weeks.

The King crapped out on MGS2. It can happen again. Happened to Miyamoto a few times now.

Again no one said MGS4 will suck. But don't count your chickens when sometimes they seem to be born deaf and blind.



Same here but MGS2 still sucked great ass. MGS3 couldn't change the past.

Not for me, I don't really give a damn.
 
Hmm, let's see-

Programming legend who has no vested interest in either platform saying they're comparable in terms of ability

vs.

Non-programming designer who's worked for Sony almost his entire career making what amounts to a gamefaqs level troll on the competition.

HMMMMMMMMM.

Who to believe?
 
jett said:
Leave them be. It's the only thing they have left to cling on to.

You are such a delicate flower where MGS is concerned. Nevermind that I thought MGS3 was the best game of its year, the fact that I can possibly doubt MSG4 because of MGS2's backfire has your panties up in a big ole bunch.

Sip your water think pretty thoughts. Its only videogames.
 
Oy not this again.

Carmack has a history of strong dislike (an understatement) for Playstation 2 development tools and environment in general which long since soured him on Sony. In his now famous keynote he was all too glad to cite his distaste several times while he propped up the Xbox as "the most developer friendly console in history".

Newell and Carmack make some fair points from their own perspective, but ultimately it is a skewed perspective that should be taken in context. Being PC developers the in order multi-core wasn't a favored move to begin with, and Cell takes the design philosophy to a further extent than 360's cpu by a good margin. This isnt about processing power, its about how fast and easy they can code their game for the console platform. The biggest problem they have with Cell is porting their PC target code is going to be a major bitch to contend with, which means more time and manpower, and less money in return. 360 runs into problems too, but from the sounds of things it'll be a lot more compatible with their overheads.

The Crytek dev interview shed a lot of light on the situation for PC devs that are porting to console. His first impression was that 360 <-> PS3 would naturally be easier to port than PC <-> Console, but it turns out with PS3/360 there's even more of a gap in architectural differences. The Cell design is a lot more radical than anything else out there. At least the Crytek guy was optimistic about harnessing it's capabilility and wasn't just thinking about his bank account.
 
Parallax Scroll said:
MGS2's gameplay is for the most part fine. However, its bosses are not that great compared to those in MGS and MGS3.

I don't think anybody is arguing the fact that MGS1 and MGS3 were better games, just the notion that MGS2 sucked is a bit ridiculous. It may have been a dissapointment to many but there is no chance in hell that it sucked.
 
Disagree. I loved MGS2 and didn't like MGS1 as much (however, I played only the crappy gamecube remake with the horribly overblown, laughable cutscenes). For me, MGS3>MGS2>MGS1. I want more codec conversations, more plot twists, more Snake+ the big 'o' style banter, more story, less boring giant robot battles. (if I want that kind of stuff I'll go play the next Halo.) I love the parts we get to see the lead as a man with a past, a mission, vulnerabilities (as in MGS2), and less an unstoppable wise-cracking-kicking-missiles-out-of-the-air flying machine (as in the gamecube remake).
 
BigBoss said:
I don't think anybody is arguing the fact that MGS1 and MGS3 were better games, just the notion that MGS2 sucked is a bit ridiculous. It may have been a dissapointment to many but there is no chance in hell that it sucked.

Yeah people are going a bit overboard now. Maybe it was a dissapointment, maybe he went a bit nuts in certain areas but MGS2 was FAR from bad or "suck".
 
hukasmokincaterpillar said:
Oy not this again.

Carmack has a history of strong dislike (an understatement) for Playstation 2 development tools and environment in general which long since soured him on Sony. In his now famous keynote he was all too glad to cite his distaste several times while he propped up the Xbox as "the most developer friendly console in history".

Newell and Carmack make some fair points from their own perspective, but ultimately it is a skewed perspective that should be taken in context. Being PC developers the in order multi-core wasn't a favored move to begin with, and Cell takes the design philosophy to a further extent than 360's cpu by a good margin. This isnt about processing power, its about how fast and easy they can code their game for the console platform. The biggest problem they have with Cell is porting their PC target code is going to be a major bitch to contend with, which means more time and manpower, and less money in return. 360 runs into problems too, but from the sounds of things it'll be a lot more compatible with their overheads.

The Crytek dev interview shed a lot of light on the situation for PC devs that are porting to console. His first impression was that 360 <-> PS3 would naturally be easier to port than PC <-> Console, but it turns out with PS3/360 there's even more of a gap in architectural differences. The Cell design is a lot more radical than anything else out there. At least the Crytek guy was optimistic about harnessing it's capabilility though and wasn't just thinking about his bank account.
Now, I just want to make sure I understand you:

Carmack is NOT credible here, because he disliked the PS2, and has said as much in public. But, on the other hand, Jaffe IS credible, because he... works for Sony?

Also how is thread now about Metal Gear Solid? Cause the second one was really bad, and so was Twin Snakes, but the first one is my favorite PSX game.
 
Draft said:
Also how is thread now about Metal Gear Solid? Cause the second one was really bad, and so was Twin Snakes, but the first one is my favorite PSX game.


This is how:

jett said:
Carmack has been bitching about the PS3 a lot lately. He can shut the fuck up until he makes a game comparable to MGS4.


Because a GAF thread is not complete without the Great Savior making its appearance. :lol
 
Draft said:
Now, I just want to make sure I understand you:

Carmack is NOT credible here, because he disliked the PS2, and has said as much in public. But, on the other hand, Jaffe IS credible, because he... works for Sony?

Also how is thread now about Metal Gear Solid? Cause the second one was really bad, and so was Twin Snakes, but the first one is my favorite PSX game.

Welll he really didn't mention Jaffe credibility, it was more on the skewed view Carmack has.
 
Sea-Dragon said:
Disagree. I loved MGS2 and didn't like MGS1 as much (however, I played only the crappy gamecube remake with the horribly overblown, laughable cutscenes).


jesus christ, twin snakes sucks. play the regular one sometime.
 
Draft said:
Programming legend who has no vested interest in either platform saying they're comparable in terms of ability

Legend?

To who? First person shooter fans? Carmack is a nobody in console development.

No vested interest? Right...
 
Mrbob said:
In the case of Quake 4 I would say both. Game has bad art direction, plus the engine is rooted in Direct X7.

D3 is an OpenGL engine. Carmack has openly denounced Gates due to the closed standards of DirectX.
 
HomerSimpson-Man said:
Welll he really didn't mention Jaffe credibility, it was more on the skewed view Carmack has.
okay, well just edit my original post (in your mind!) by changing the word "credibility" to "skewed view."

I'm just saying, all bias aside, of the two of them, one's a programmer who'se platform agnostic, and one doesn't program and gets his paychecks signed by Sony.

edit:
:lol
Whether or not you like his games, you can't deny the effect the man's had on 3D game technology.
 
Draft said:
okay, well just edit my original post (in your mind!) by changing the word "credibility" to "skewed view."

I'm just saying, all bias aside, of the two of them, one's a programmer who'se platform agnostic, and one doesn't program and gets his paychecks signed by Sony.

Yeah, not much of a choice for objection views either way.
 
Draft said:
I'm just saying, all bias aside, of the two of them, one's a programmer who'se platform agnostic,

WTF?

His platform is single threaded x86 machines. And he is crying that world is running out of steam and he has no skills to compete outside of it.
 
Draft said:
okay, well just edit my original post (in your mind!) by changing the word "credibility" to "skewed view."

I'm just saying, all bias aside, of the two of them, one's a programmer who'se platform agnostic, and one doesn't program and gets his paychecks signed by Sony.

edit:
:lol
Whether or not you like his games, you can't deny the effect the man's had on 3D game technology.

Ok, what effect?
 
Top Bottom