Hitler Stole My Potato
Banned
TheInkyVoid said:
LOL!!!
This has got to be a joke character
-
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David Jaffe comments on the 360/PS3 (heated words is an understatement)
- Thread starter C- Warrior
- Start date
LOL!!!
This has got to be a joke character
People who aren't familiar with him can visit David Jaffe's blog: http://davidjaffe.modblog.com/
hukasmokincaterpillar
Member
Draft said:
Please be a sweetheart and point out where I mentioned Jaffe once in my post. Let alone the word credible next to his name. :lol (sorry to David if he happens to still be lurking here
) I think people have been taking a lot of Carmack and Newell's criticisms out of context and I discussed why I thought so, simple as that. Carmack being soured on the Sony development environment is only a small part of it.
Holy fucking ape shit STOP with the god damn beta/alpha/zeta kit excuses! At TGS, both PS3 and 360 games on display were running on kits that were at least 75-80% of each system's total power (I'm willing to bet some 360 titles were running on 100% final kits even), and you know what? Most of the games still looked downright disappointing. So let's stop fucking making excuses for this shit and move on. There is only three possible reasons for this now, and we need to start focusing on that. Either these devs are phoning in these titles, the 30% of total power was complete BS, or MS has delivered some seriously flawed hardware, because the PS3 walks all over it and it's still 3 months from final. Completely unacceptable.Agent Icebeezy said:
Can we please put an official ban on that god damn excuse from here on out? I find it downright depressing that you've got so much freakin' cash soaked into this console already Icebreezy, because it's become impossible for you to view in an even remotely objective light.
Anyways, to get back on topic, since when did a CPU matter to Carmack? All he cares about is a shitton of RAM and fully stocked GPU. His idea of physics is 'shit not floating', and his animations are about as fluid as a broken PSone sprite. The guy may still garner respect in the industry, and he may still create decent engines, but he's a fucking has-been as far as I'm concerned, who's stuck in the past and overly obsessed with shaders and lifeless visual thrills. IMO the man doesn't have the talent to move onto the next gen, because he has no vision of the next gen. His answer to everything is more polys, more textures and more shaders, and it's this kind of completely uninspired ideology that this industry can do without. I respect what he's done in the past, but in no way does that give him a free pass for the future. He needs to STFU, change his ways or pack it in and get the fuck outta town.
I could care less which console he prefers, the PC community can keep him. I don't want his shit on my consoles.
Because, contrary to the way some of you think, there's no dishonor or shame in good sportsmanship. Not all business people lack the grace to acknowledge the strengths of their competitors and not every business demands that their employees deliberately smear the competition.sirris said:
Hitler Stole My Potato
Banned
Speevy said:
No, no, no. If anything they need to stay the hell out of those threads. They can bitch somewhere else.
Beer Monkey
Member
Carmack was actually working on the Quake engine on the Atari Jaguar at some point, likely worked on the Wolfenstein port to the Atari Lynx, and has been working on cell phone coding as of late. This guy seems to have no fear of platforms that aren't like PCs. It's funny to see the Sonybots bash Carmack as some kind of savant who can only work effectively on PCs.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Heian-kyo said:
If you were such a damn Sony fanboy and actually followed the Microsoft side of things instead off showing up in threads pertaining to them and getting shitted on and embarrassed out of them since it's been apparent you haven't known shit about graphics for quite some time.
http://forum.gaming-age.com/showpost.php?p=1841889&postcount=140
Go there to reminisce gettin shitted on. Therefore, you are one of the last people on this board to talk. If you look at the specs of the two system. PS3 has the slight edge in some things, Xbox 360 has a slight edge in somethings. The only thing that is by a wide margin is the processors. 7 is greater than 3. Only a fool with think otherwise. The Alphas were G5, the betas were underpowered. They have had finals for 2 weeks total. Meanwhile, Ultra 6800 SLI's were in PS3 kits last year. By all extents and purposes, the PS3 will be more powerful, it comes out laters, that is just follow a simple rule of technology. There is nothing to make up, just Google this shit. Microsoft layed a fucking egg leading up to this launch day, it's just now coming together, last minute, but still. Of course there will be a disparity between the two. Until you can actually prove you know what you are talking about, kindly move out of the way and shut the fuck up.
krypt0nian
Banned
Agent Icebeezy said:
HAS BEEN THROWN.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Everybody needs to chill, relax...take an enema or two.
Holy fucking ape shit STOP with the god damn beta/alpha/zeta kit excuses! At TGS, both PS3 and 360 games on display were running on kits that were at least 75-80% of each system's total power (I'm willing to bet some 360 titles were running on 100% final kits even), and you know what? Most of the games still looked downright disappointing. So let's stop fucking making excuses for this shit and move on. There is only three possible reasons for this now, and we need to start focusing on that. Either these devs are phoning in these titles, the 30% of total power was complete BS, or MS has delivered some seriously flawed hardware, because the PS3 walks all over it and it's still 3 months from final. Completely unacceptable.
Can we please put an official ban on that god damn excuse from here on out? I find it downright depressing that you've got so much freakin' cash soaked into this console already Icebreezy, because it's become impossible for you to view in an even remotely objective light.
Anyways, to get back on topic, since when did a CPU matter to Carmack? All he cares about is a shitton of RAM and fully stocked GPU. His idea of physics is 'shit not floating', and his animations are about as fluid as a broken PSone sprite. The guy may still garner respect in the industry, and he may still create decent engines, but he's a fucking has-been as far as I'm concerned, who's stuck in the past and overly obsessed with shaders and lifeless visual thrills. IMO the man doesn't have the talent to move onto the next gen, because he has no vision of the next gen. His answer to everything is more polys, more textures and more shaders, and it's this kind of completely uninspired ideology that this industry can do without. I respect what he's done in the past, but in no way does that give him a free pass for the future. He needs to STFU, change his ways or pack it in and get the fuck outta town.
I could care less which console he prefers, the PC community can keep him. I don't want his shit on my consoles.
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If you were such a damn Sony fanboy and actually followed the Microsoft side of things instead off showing up in threads pertaining to them and getting shitted on and embarrassed out of them since it's been apparent you haven't known shit about graphics for quite some time.
http://forum.gaming-age.com/showpos...9&postcount=140
Go there to reminisce gettin shitted on. Therefore, you are one of the last people on this board to talk. If you look at the specs of the two system. PS3 has the slight edge in some things, Xbox 360 has a slight edge in somethings. The only thing that is by a wide margin is the processors. 7 is greater than 3. Only a fool with think otherwise. The Alphas were G5, the betas were underpowered. They have had finals for 2 weeks total. Meanwhile, Ultra 6800 SLI's were in PS3 kits last year. By all extents and purposes, the PS3 will be more powerful, it comes out laters, that is just follow a simple rule of technology. There is nothing to make up, just Google this shit. Microsoft layed a fucking egg leading up to this launch day, it's just now coming together, last minute, but still. Of course there will be a disparity between the two. Until you can actually prove you know what you are talking about, kindly move out of the way and shut the fuck up.
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My reply. None of your posts make sense.
Can we please put an official ban on that god damn excuse from here on out? I find it downright depressing that you've got so much freakin' cash soaked into this console already Icebreezy, because it's become impossible for you to view in an even remotely objective light.
Anyways, to get back on topic, since when did a CPU matter to Carmack? All he cares about is a shitton of RAM and fully stocked GPU. His idea of physics is 'shit not floating', and his animations are about as fluid as a broken PSone sprite. The guy may still garner respect in the industry, and he may still create decent engines, but he's a fucking has-been as far as I'm concerned, who's stuck in the past and overly obsessed with shaders and lifeless visual thrills. IMO the man doesn't have the talent to move onto the next gen, because he has no vision of the next gen. His answer to everything is more polys, more textures and more shaders, and it's this kind of completely uninspired ideology that this industry can do without. I respect what he's done in the past, but in no way does that give him a free pass for the future. He needs to STFU, change his ways or pack it in and get the fuck outta town.
I could care less which console he prefers, the PC community can keep him. I don't want his shit on my consoles.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you were such a damn Sony fanboy and actually followed the Microsoft side of things instead off showing up in threads pertaining to them and getting shitted on and embarrassed out of them since it's been apparent you haven't known shit about graphics for quite some time.
http://forum.gaming-age.com/showpos...9&postcount=140
Go there to reminisce gettin shitted on. Therefore, you are one of the last people on this board to talk. If you look at the specs of the two system. PS3 has the slight edge in some things, Xbox 360 has a slight edge in somethings. The only thing that is by a wide margin is the processors. 7 is greater than 3. Only a fool with think otherwise. The Alphas were G5, the betas were underpowered. They have had finals for 2 weeks total. Meanwhile, Ultra 6800 SLI's were in PS3 kits last year. By all extents and purposes, the PS3 will be more powerful, it comes out laters, that is just follow a simple rule of technology. There is nothing to make up, just Google this shit. Microsoft layed a fucking egg leading up to this launch day, it's just now coming together, last minute, but still. Of course there will be a disparity between the two. Until you can actually prove you know what you are talking about, kindly move out of the way and shut the fuck up.
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My reply. None of your posts make sense.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
PS2 KID said:
Coming from a person with your moniker, that is a piss poor reply. Also, MGS2 is a kickass game. I think it is, until the end when you have to fight
the 3 Metal Gears
krypt0nian
Banned
Zeo said:
It is a bad game as I had to try 3 times to finish it. Fuck you for deciding who gets opinions.
MGS1 and 3 rock with the best of them.
Go play mario baseball.
Alpha/beta kits is bullshit. Games are made with target specs in mind, not each kit step. Assets in most 360 games haven't changed. What's changed is the addition of some features, like lighting and some shader effects. But with the exception of the absolute shit-looking games, changes have been minor. The smart companies released target renders, like BC. The poor companies haven't improved, even after getting better kits. The excuse is hollow, plain and simple. The PS3 kits are missing a huge chunk of bandwidth (why do you even think they'd put all that bw on FlexIO if it wasn't important) and ~30% clock on CPU and GPU. PD0 and Kameo were just plain eyesores before, which is why they've improved as much as they did. DOA4 hasn't improved much at all. GoW has been the same as well (blah blah blah, running on 6800s).
Point being that the state of the titles earlier this summer has less to do with the hardware than the different approaches devs took to making their titles. Even then, the best-looking 360 titles have always looked good. You don't need final hardware to put out a nice screenshot. PGR3 is still owning everything else on the box, save for GoW and maybe RR6. And we had nice screenies of that for months, be it alpha or beta kits. PEACE.
EDIT: This is kind of a silly thread though. Jaffe is clearly influenced by Sony, and Carmack is great, but not exactly one of the console regs. Independant console devs are more reliable in this regard, and they won't say much b/c they have to be system agnostic.
Point being that the state of the titles earlier this summer has less to do with the hardware than the different approaches devs took to making their titles. Even then, the best-looking 360 titles have always looked good. You don't need final hardware to put out a nice screenshot. PGR3 is still owning everything else on the box, save for GoW and maybe RR6. And we had nice screenies of that for months, be it alpha or beta kits. PEACE.
EDIT: This is kind of a silly thread though. Jaffe is clearly influenced by Sony, and Carmack is great, but not exactly one of the console regs. Independant console devs are more reliable in this regard, and they won't say much b/c they have to be system agnostic.
Red Scarlet
Member
Only 3
? Come on, even I can get there on hard, where it's like 15.
Metal Gears
krypt0nian
Banned
PS2 KID said:
He stated that there was no other opinion. You can STFU too now.
Red Scarlet
Member
He's just being Zeo.
krypt0nian
Banned
PS2 KID said:
When you defend people trying to shut down opinions, you get what you get.
Okay, THAT'S IT! Here are the facts.
Anyone with a brain stem can clearly see that the PS3 is at least two whole generatiions ahead of the Xbox 360. Developers and the gaming community as a whole are already laughing at M$. To compare Metal Gear Solid 4, the greatest technical achievement in video game history to the underpowered, rushed, and ultimately doomed piece of hardware known as the Xbox 360 makes me sick. You know what I want Xbox fans to do? Just stop playing video games. I mean it. If Metal Gear Solid 4 does not kill all the enthusiasm you had for that joke of a platform, you need a new hobby. Perhaps you can come back in five years when the Playstation 4 is your only choice for console gaming.
[/insane]
Anyone with a brain stem can clearly see that the PS3 is at least two whole generatiions ahead of the Xbox 360. Developers and the gaming community as a whole are already laughing at M$. To compare Metal Gear Solid 4, the greatest technical achievement in video game history to the underpowered, rushed, and ultimately doomed piece of hardware known as the Xbox 360 makes me sick. You know what I want Xbox fans to do? Just stop playing video games. I mean it. If Metal Gear Solid 4 does not kill all the enthusiasm you had for that joke of a platform, you need a new hobby. Perhaps you can come back in five years when the Playstation 4 is your only choice for console gaming.
[/insane]
Carmack is more believable, simply because he isn't in the pocket of Sony or MS. He will make games for both consoles, but at this time finds 360 a little more dev friendly. I don't really think that many if any of the xbots are even trying to say that 360 has more power than PS3. To say that PS3 is magnitudes higher in power at this point in the game is just stupid when we haven't seen any gameplay shots that would support that claim, that won't however stop the Sony fanboys from claiming otherwise.
element
Member
you all know my take on Jaffe. I don't really put a lot of trust into a guy who:
Isnt a programmer
Never worked on the competitors console
Has his checks signed by Sony
We have heard from a number of developers and most are saying the same thing. Xbox 360 is easier to work with, but PS3 is more powerful. That level of 'more powerful' is debated, but I even agree that PS3 will be more powerful. Now what developers do with that, who knows. I'm impressed with Gears of War, but MGS4 is very impressive as well.
I'll get a good idea, PS3 kits are coming soon baby!!
Isnt a programmer
Never worked on the competitors console
Has his checks signed by Sony
We have heard from a number of developers and most are saying the same thing. Xbox 360 is easier to work with, but PS3 is more powerful. That level of 'more powerful' is debated, but I even agree that PS3 will be more powerful. Now what developers do with that, who knows. I'm impressed with Gears of War, but MGS4 is very impressive as well.
I'll get a good idea, PS3 kits are coming soon baby!!
there is nothing being done in the MGS4 trailer that you don't see in almost every next-gen title. MGS4 excels in presentation and art direction, nothing more.
I like how after the phenomenal showing of MGS4 at TGS that MGS2 has gone from a great, universally-acclaimed game with some fairly recognizable flaws to a atrocious, ET-level monstrosity that everyone with an agenda claims to be horrified by.
The bar for what is and is not a good game raised once more!
The bar for what is and is not a good game raised once more!
krypt0nian
Banned
Amir0x said:
Yes because the controversy about MGS2 started with MGS4. :lol
Talk about trying too hard.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Element, maybe you can answer this, what is the timeframe of the various X360 dev kits and what percentile would you rate on them, in terms of power. Obviously, 100% for the finals.
Hitler Stole My Potato
Banned
Amir0x said:
Where have you been? MGS2 has always been hated on around here.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Speevy said:
The RPG fan in me liked all the Jack and Jill dialogue. I sat through it all
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Amir0x said:
I like this post. Pretty much my approach to gaming, even when certain games can't appeal to me there is still a big difference for a game to be truely bad.
element
Member
I'd say pre-alpha were 10%, alpha were 30%, beta were 70%. That is a rough guess.Agent Icebeezy said:
MS has an advantage that teams have been working in the development enviroment for over a year now with various kits. But they had to scale their games with the hardware. Where Sony is going to have much more mature hardware from the time it hits developers hands, so they will have a good idea what they can do ASAP.
Now as JohnC said, the development enviroment should be easier on X360 then on PS3. But Sony is doing some things to make it alot easier. Getting alot of middleware providers in the kits and the purchase of SN Systems is HUGE for Sony.
Are you guys calling MGS2 a bad game? :lol
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 95.2%
And it sold, what? 6 million world wide? And got how many GOTYs? You may not like the game but that does not change the fact that it is one of the best games of all time. It's just not your cup of tea, despite the quality.
Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 95.2%
And it sold, what? 6 million world wide? And got how many GOTYs? You may not like the game but that does not change the fact that it is one of the best games of all time. It's just not your cup of tea, despite the quality.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
element said:
Thank you, I have nothing else to say now, the bolded part did it for me. Thanks again
TheInkyVoid
Member
element said:
What planet did you say you were from again?
element
Member
uhhh, what did i do.Agent Icebeezy said:
Tonight? Mars. Tomorrow? Who knows. Most of what I said is pretty common knowledge, and based on raw power. Using launch games where were mostly designed just to run, not take advantage of all of the power of the hardware. I didn't give any advantages to anyone. Both systems have things going for them. But it will be in the hands of the developers.
Most important role this generation will be technical art and art direction. the person's job to make all those layers of shaders, normal maps, and other junk turn into something 'pretty' on screen.