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DC Cinematic Universe |OT| Superfriends with Benefits

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D

duckroll

Member
N7Commander95 said:
There are some serious spoilers in there
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Sorry, edited the stuff out of the first review I quoted. I guess he goes into more detail than people in this thread might be comfortable with.

Edit: Nuked the entire paragraph of spoilers. Yikes. The analogies were hilarious too. >_<
 
N

Ninjimbo

Member
duckroll said:
Sorry, edited the stuff out of the first review I quoted. I guess he goes into more detail than people in this thread might be comfortable with.
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Yeah..Michael Phillips doesn't really care about spoiling stuff in his reviews. He's one of the best though.
 
I

IconGrist

Member
Okay, so I've been reading reviews and watching reviews pretty much exclusively since the embargo dropped and everybody and their momma posted their thoughts.

Here is what I have gathered in as non-spoilery a way as possible.

1. If you do not have more than a basic knowledge of these characters and their histories in the comics (and I mean all the characters in this movie) you will miss some plot points that are essential in understanding what is going on in the grand scheme of things. The movie will not dumb it down or explain it for anyone with only casual knowledge.

2. If you did not catch every detail of Man of Steel you will find yourself confused at certain points.

3. Snyder repeated his problem of throwing in an easily missed detail that explains something you may have initially thought went un-explained.

4. The movie suffers from the Iron Man 2 syndrome in spending maybe too much time setting up Justice League while still trying to tell its own story.

5. If the only Batman you know or like came in the form of live action or animated there's a good chance you may not like what you see.

6. If the only Superman you know or like came in the form of live action or animated there's a good chance you may not like what you see.

7. If the only Lex Luthor you know or like came in the form of live action or animated there's a good chance you may not like what you see.

8. Wonder Woman is only slightly more important to the movie than Faora was in Man of Steel or Black Widow was in Iron Man 2.

9. Movie feels like it is missing scenes which may or may not be related to having previous knowledge there is an additional 30 minutes that is literally missing.

10. The last act is similar to Man of Steel's where the action picks up in the third act and doesn't let up for a long time. This may be too much for some people despite the quality of it.
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Take all of that as you will.
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
duckroll said:
Well.... I think this review articulates why he felt the movie was joyless, and why the effects in a specific example was overused and poorly directed in his opinion:




Here's a review about how the movie overreaches:




Here's another review about how the movie overreaches and doesn't connect, and actually refutes that people expect Marvel from this:



Still bullshit? It's not that critics expect Marvel fun and happy times, it's that Zack Snyder sets himself up for expectations of greatness when he wants to deal in serious character material using superheroes, but blows it because his strength is in visuals and action, while his storytelling is weak. His passion and the fact that he is one of the few directors even attempting this for properties like Watchmen might be enough for some fans, but it's not good enough for most people.
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I don't see it. The first one doesn't like Snyder using his particular style on a film, what did they expect him to be Kurosawa, Kubrick, Spielberg? That's them getting high on their own shit. Also plenty of films aim to do something and not fully making the landing multiple times at day but I don't see them getting reviews like this. So why are his movies singled out? Because he dares to try using comic book heroes while attempting this? Because the portrayal of Superman isn't as grounded as the one of a billionaire wearing a batsuit and driving a fancy car while he beats people up can be? Well duh Superman is further away from grounded that you can get but that doesn't make him unrealistic in his portrayal.

Also, Batman is an established entity in this films so his introduction I expect it to be more matter of fact that what Nolan did in his portrayal.
 
A

Ashhong

Member
The Icon said:
Okay, so I've been reading reviews and watching reviews pretty much exclusively since the embargo dropped and everybody and their momma posted their thoughts.

Here is what I have gathered in as non-spoilery a way as possible.



Take all of that as you will.
Click to expand...

It's basically MoS exactly.
 
N

Ninjimbo

Member
Now that I'm spoiled thanks to Michael Phillips, I'm thinking that Snyder wanted to make superhero equivalent of Hamlet. Fuck. Now I really don't know what to expect anymore.

I'm in for a crazy weekend.
 
O

overcast

Member
Draconian said:
Considering he's probably almost finished post on the film by now, I'd wager not much.
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Thinking WB needs a crown jewel, a critically acclaimed movie from the DC universe. One that is unique and can at least cleanse BvS from the system (I know it can be good but I'm talking critically).

A lot of that pressure falls on SS instead of WW.
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
overcast said:
Thinking WB needs a crown jewel, a critically acclaimed movie from the DC universe. One that is unique and can at least cleanse BvS from the system (I know it can be good but I'm talking critically).

A lot of that pressure falls on SS instead of WW.
Click to expand...

suicide squad sure has a cast that can carry a movie (if the script is snappy) compared to freaking gal gadot.

i hope to god wonder woman doesn't flop if only because of the big setback it ends up being for women action movies. but man....that casting. and now after reading reviews where people rarely mention her being of note they better infuse her with a lot of personality for her solo movie.
 
D

duckroll

Member
thehypocrite said:
I don't see it. The first one doesn't like Snyder using his particular style on a film, what did they expect him to be Kurosawa, Kubrick, Spielberg? That's them getting high on their own shit. Also plenty of films aim to do something and not fully making the landing multiple times at day but I don't see them getting reviews like this. So why are his movies singled out? Because he dares to try using comic book heroes while attempting this? Because the portrayal of Superman isn't as grounded as the one of a billionaire wearing a batsuit and driving a fancy car while he beats people up can be? Well duh Superman is further away from grounded that you can get but that doesn't make him unrealistic in his portrayal.
Click to expand...

I don't think Snyder is being singled out, I think that he has a very specific style that isn't particularly popular outside of his fanbase, AND he overreaches and fails to make the landing. So his movies get shit reviews. His movies aren't the only ones which get shit reviews, maybe you feel this way because you pay more attention to his movies in particular? I don't know.

Speed Racer is a movie which is very appreciated by a small group of fans: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/speed_racer/

It's about on par with BvS right now. That doesn't mean anyone had it out for the film, just that it didn't resonate. Sometimes a movie can be well made for what it is, and appreciated by a small target audience, but not recognized or appreciated by anyone else, and actually considered to be a poor film. It happens. Art is highly subjective.

I really enjoyed Chappie, and I think it was a way better film than Elysium.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/chappie/

Well... erm... tough I guess. I don't think anyone is trying to hate the movie on purpose, it just didn't work for them.
 
3

3N16MA

Banned
overcast said:
Thinking WB needs a crown jewel, a critically acclaimed movie from the DC universe. One that is unique and can at least cleanse BvS from the system (I know it can be good but I'm talking critically).

A lot of that pressure falls on SS instead of WW.
Click to expand...

This film has lowered the review bar so low that SS has very little pressure.
 
O

overcast

Member
Discotheque said:
suicide squad sure has a cast that can carry a movie (if the script is snappy) compared to freaking gal gadot.

i hope to god wonder woman doesn't flop if only because of the big setback it ends up being for women action movies. but man....that casting. and now after reading reviews where people rarely mention her being of note they better infuse her with a lot of personality for her solo movie.
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I agree with that for sure. There is a lot of good about Suicide Squad on paper (and trailers).

Yeah I've been pretty skeptical about Gadot, especially in carrying a whole movie. But is there any negative about Gadot in this movie? I know she's barely in it so she still has a lot to prove I assume. I'm avoiding reviews generally.
3N16MA said:
This film has lowered the review bar so low that SS has very little pressure.
Click to expand...
That's true too.
 
I

IconGrist

Member
duckroll said:
Sometimes a movie can be well made for what it is, and appreciated by a small target audience, but not recognized or appreciated by anyone else, and actually considered to be a poor film. It happens. Art is highly subjective.
Click to expand...

This is actually where I am with a lot of movies I like. I really like Seven Pounds and cry like a baby every time I see it.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/seven_pounds/

Fresh: 50
Rotten: 137
27%

You like what you like. Sometimes that falls in line with a critical view and sometimes it doesn't. Welcome to life.
 
E

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
WB needs to look at SE imo, I mean sure game company has nothing to do with a movie studio, but SE was having an absolute nightmare last gen. They shat out a bunch of mediocre games, tarninshing their big brand in FF, it all culminated in the absolute shitshow that was FFXIV 1.0.

They went back the drawing board, there were major shakes up both in management and in their dev teams. People were removed, other moved around. There was a new policy in the company to be more open with the fanbase, to communicate more, more easily, and more frequently. None of this closed theater bullshit. They started having live-stream events, Yoshida took over FF14 and started having live video sessions with the fanbase to let them know how stuff was coming around etc. They started giving fans what they wanted with FF7r, KH3, releasing FF13v (now FF15) etc... To me they are starting to regain that goodwill lost during last gen.

It always threw me off how something as big as the DCEU movie slate was announced in a muted investor meeting, instead of making it an event to the fans. I mean you don't announce shit like JL, Aquaman, Flash and not make a big deal out of it. They need to modernize themselves, use social media, host fan events. The CW thing they did was great, it hyped you up. More of that stuff please. It's ok to please investors, but at the end of the day it's fans money that matters. I mean look at all the Star Wars fan events Disney did for Star Wars and TFA, and there was this atmosphere of huge expectations and all around goodwill. That's the kind of buzz you want for your films, not this negative stuff bloggers type up and shit out.
 
D

Draconian

Member
overcast said:
Thinking WB needs a crown jewel, a critically acclaimed movie from the DC universe. One that is unique and can at least cleanse BvS from the system (I know it can be good but I'm talking critically).

A lot of that pressure falls on SS instead of WW.
Click to expand...

I know, but the movie is pretty close to finished at this point. There's no sense in Ayer worrying about it. It won't do him any good.

Also, was I in a cave when these stories about a SS sequel came out? Is this confirmed or just rumored at this point?
 
W

Wingfan19

Unconfirmed Member
Just got done watching Gotham, Supergirl, Flash, and SHIELD, checked this thread and the review thread and my head almost exploded. The amount of mis-information being spouted in the review thread is killing me. It's comical how people are taking so many things out of context and going crazy with it. Watch. The. Fucking. Movie. Before making stupid comments.
 
T

thehypocrite

Member
duckroll said:
I don't think Snyder is being singled out, I think that he has a very specific style that isn't particularly popular outside of his fanbase, AND he overreaches and fails to make the landing. So his movies get shit reviews. His movies aren't the only ones which get shit reviews, maybe you feel this way because you pay more attention to his movies in particular? I don't know.

Speed Racer is a movie which is very appreciated by a small group of fans: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/speed_racer/

It's about on par with BvS right now. That doesn't mean anyone had it out for the film, just that it didn't resonate. Sometimes a movie can be well made for what it is, and appreciated by a small target audience, but not recognized or appreciated by anyone else, and actually considered to be a poor film. It happens. Art is highly subjective.

I really enjoyed Chappie, and I think it was a way better film than Elysium.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/chappie/

Well... erm... tough I guess. I don't think anyone is trying to hate the movie on purpose, it just didn't work for them.
Click to expand...
Well, I don't think I'm a Snyder fan, though I have watched all his films but I see the failures, the imperfect and the good. MOS is imperfect but not a failure at all, actually I'll see it as a good film, Sucker Punch its a failure, he fucked that one and Watchmen is still his best film. I watched the owl film and found it OK, imperfect but not a failure. I watched the zombie remake and remember liking it.

I did like speed racer but Chappie I didn't like, Elysium is an inoffensive movie so Chappie is better in my eyes cause of the risk.

I do think he gets a raw deal cause critics expect these films to be as safe an inoffensive as possible but he doesn't play that way so if he's imperfect on the execution he gets murdered by the critics every time. There's no way that MOS quality is accurately captured by it's RT score neither is watchmen, BvS I can't say as I haven't seen it. For these reasons I feel inclined to assert he gets undeserved criticism.
 
K

Killing_Joke

Member
Not going to dig deep until i watch it but as of now the 34% is ridiculous to me.


That number to me means everything about the movie is pure shit and not even worth the time. The movie really could be that bad but i can't really swallow that right now.
 
D

duckroll

Member
thehypocrite said:
Well, I don't think I'm a Snyder fan, though I have watched all his films but I see the failures, the imperfect and the good. MOS is imperfect but not a failure at all, actually I'll see it as a good film, Sucker Punch its a failure, he fucked that one and Watchmen is still his best film. I watched the owl film and found it OK, imperfect but not a failure. I watched the zombie remake and remember liking it.

I did like speed racer but Chappie I didn't like, Elysium is an inoffensive movie so Chappie is better in my eyes cause of the risk.

I do think he gets a raw deal cause critics expect these films to be as safe an inoffensive as possible but he doesn't play that way so if he's imperfect on the execution he gets murdered by the critics every time. There's no way that MOS quality is accurately captured by it's RT score neither is watchmen, BvS I can't say as I haven't seen it. For these reasons I feel inclined to assert he gets undeserved criticism.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with the sentiment that Snyder gets a raw deal. I just don't think it's targeted because he is Snyder. It's not personal. It's just the sort of movies he tends to make, with the style he has, and both the vision and the shortcomings he has for the films. These factors make it hard for him to successfully capture a positive consensus. I don't think the criticism is undeserved though. Poorly expressed sometimes, maybe.

N7Commander95 said:
Duckroll, is it actually you who is doing the title changes?

If so keep going he he
Click to expand...

NO! It's really not damnit. :p
 
M

Major Gripex

Member
rtLNFkW.jpg
 
W

Wingfan19

Unconfirmed Member
Kinda wondering if they should've just went ahead with this being MoS2 dealing with all the destruction fallout and how Lex tries to spin it, leaving Batman out of this, hinting at Wonder Woman, and have it have a happy ending where the world gets back on Superman's side. No Doomsday, but maybe use Metallo to introduce the Kryptonite via Lex's help. Save Batman for Suicide Squad by either just giving the audience a taste like how much he's in it now, or make it more of an Assault on Arkham movie to give Batman more screen time. Do the Wonder Woman movie then go right into Justice League with them trying to get Batman to join up to take on a bigger threat like Brainiac and save Darkseid for JL2.
 
N

N7Commander95

Member
Wingfan19 said:
Kinda wondering if they should've just went ahead with this being MoS2 dealing with all the destruction fallout and how Lex tries to spin it, leaving Batman out of this, hinting at Wonder Woman, and have it have a happy ending where the world gets back on Superman's side. No Doomsday, but maybe use Metallo to introduce the Kryptonite via Lex's help. Save Batman for Suicide Squad by either just giving the audience a taste like how much he's in it now, or make it more of an Assault on Arkham movie to give Batman more screen time. Do the Wonder Woman movie then go right into Justice League with them trying to get Batman to join up to take on a bigger threat like Brainiac and save Darkseid for JL2.
Click to expand...

That . . . is a great idea really. Have him cameo, or sprinkle him throught MOS2, SS and WW. Then have him be a major character in JL
 
D

Discotheque

Banned
Wingfan19 said:
Kinda wondering if they should've just went ahead with this being MoS2 dealing with all the destruction fallout and how Lex tries to spin it, leaving Batman out of this, hinting at Wonder Woman, and have it have a happy ending where the world gets back on Superman's side. No Doomsday, but maybe use Metallo to introduce the Kryptonite via Lex's help. Save Batman for Suicide Squad by either just giving the audience a taste like how much he's in it now, or make it more of an Assault on Arkham movie to give Batman more screen time. Do the Wonder Woman movie then go right into Justice League with them trying to get Batman to join up to take on a bigger threat like Brainiac and save Darkseid for JL2.
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uh yeah that's exactly what should happened tbh. that all sounds good.

and make superman great again. no more "i smelled a fart" face from that man. cavill has way more charm in interviews than he does as superman, it's messed.
 
M

munchie64

Member
N7Commander95 said:
Honestly, this thread is rather well adjusted. If you want meltdowns and raging on both sides, check out SHH
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Thar sub-reddit was enough for my tastes.
Ashhong said:
Just sad. Still looking forward to it very much. I'll probably love it. I would be lying if I said all of these negative impressions and talk didn't lessen my feelings about the movie though.
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It's probably the same for me. Wonder how general audiences will feel?
 
3

3N16MA

Banned
Wingfan19 said:
Kinda wondering if they should've just went ahead with this being MoS2 dealing with all the destruction fallout and how Lex tries to spin it, leaving Batman out of this, hinting at Wonder Woman, and have it have a happy ending where the world gets back on Superman's side. No Doomsday, but maybe use Metallo to introduce the Kryptonite via Lex's help. Save Batman for Suicide Squad by either just giving the audience a taste like how much he's in it now, or make it more of an Assault on Arkham movie to give Batman more screen time. Do the Wonder Woman movie then go right into Justice League with them trying to get Batman to join up to take on a bigger threat like Brainiac and save Darkseid for JL2.
Click to expand...

I still think they should have moved up Aquaman and pushed back JL. Establish three characters with solo films and Batman shares a film with Superman or is more involved with Suicide Squad. Cyborg and Flash could make cameos along the way and then head towards JL.
 
E

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Discotheque said:
uh yeah that's exactly what should happened tbh. that all sounds good.

and make superman great again. no more "i smelled a fart" face from that man. cavill has way more charm in interviews than he does as superman, it's messed.
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Yeah, it's weird. He comes off as very likeable and having a personality. But Snyder doesn't want that, sucks.

The Icon said:
Oh god, SHH is a mess. I feel bad for a lot of those posters. They let their hype overcome reason and today they just took a shotgun blast to the heart.
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This is why WB need to change and start getting that goodwill back. Lot of people were emotionally invested in this. It sucks when something you look forward too for almost 3 years turns out shit. That's why I say Snyder needs to fuck off, with what face he can show up at a comic-con now? After shitting on fans trust for 2 movies in a row.

These are beloved characters you are dealing with man, people want to see these characters in good movies. People waited YEARS for this, and he gone fuck it up. I'm huge DC fan, I defended MoS however I could thinking "well it wasn't a good movie but there was potential he might learn from what didn't work and turn it around" but it doesn't look like it, dude went and turned everything that didn't work in MoS up to 11. Not gonna go with spoilers, but people that have read spoilers know what I'm talking about. I'm a big fan but not that emotionally invested, I'm just mad that WB and Snyder fucked this up. There's still time, but they can't afford a third fumble now. They need to start to making changes and start putting people in charge that have the fans trust and start building goodwill, like now.
 
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