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Dead or Alive 5: Last Round |OT| Bouncing on new systems.
- Thread starter Vazra
- Start date
lucebuce12
Member
OK that does make sense.
Eolz
Member
Posted at the bottom of the page, might as well quote back there 
I believe they have a chance with the next game, now that fighting games are mostly popular again, all have their niche, TN understands what their fanbase wants, and they've shown with DOA5 and Nioh that they're still great devs, etc.
I believe they have a chance with the next game, now that fighting games are mostly popular again, all have their niche, TN understands what their fanbase wants, and they've shown with DOA5 and Nioh that they're still great devs, etc.
YoshiStrife
Member
Yeah, the actual original 5 music isn't that great. It's made up for through having nearly all of the series' music history in there, plus the awesome Warriors remixes of Kas, Ayane and Ryu's themes. I just wish they added the DOA2 Ultimate dance remixes too. The newer stuff they added with DLC character themes was actually an improvement tho.
It will be interesting to see how DOA6 is presented to us. Do they go all out on what it's embraced itself as in the last few years as a sexy fighter, or double back and go with their original 5 plan? Or something in between? It must be difficult for them to figure out how best to unleash it if they want to boost its audience and get in on the esports scene, which is now becoming insanely popular with all these TV deals.
It will be interesting to see how DOA6 is presented to us. Do they go all out on what it's embraced itself as in the last few years as a sexy fighter, or double back and go with their original 5 plan? Or something in between? It must be difficult for them to figure out how best to unleash it if they want to boost its audience and get in on the esports scene, which is now becoming insanely popular with all these TV deals.
lucebuce12
Member
Well whatever happens I'm gonna be there right alongside you guys when the new DoA game is revealed!
I honestly did not expect to enjoy this game as much as I am.
I honestly did not expect to enjoy this game as much as I am.
I personally think that they should TRY to keep it serious and stick to the original 5 plan. There's nothing wrong with releasing sexy stuff in the middle of the game's lifetime but don't let that dominate to the point where it's the most memorable thing about the game (at least to the casual fighting game fans)
I mean, it wasn't like that at the start of 5, and it wasn't like there was a big drop off right after the first swimsuit DLC came out.
They will probably try just like they did with 5, but that won't help word of mouth all that much. A lot of people already have their feelings about the brand and nothing is going to change that, you'll have shitposters no matter what. Similar to people who talk down to anime fighters despite never playing one.
He asked why this game doesn't have mainstream recognition. The focus on tits and ass is absolutely the number one reason and that goes back to DoA1 with "bouncing breasts" option.
I agree with you about the series stigma, just saying I don't remember much marketing for 5 that focused on that.
Yeah, it's just part of the series legacy now. Just something people that like the game and not the breasts have to put up With.
lucebuce12
Member
The people who like both must be so happy though.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
I'm pretty happy yea
this is also one of the highest selling fighting games on the market. Just because it isnt entrenched as a main FGC game doesnt mean its failing in the mainstream.
Eolz
Member
Lol.
Unfortunately, once a series get a widely recognized reputation, it's extremely hard to get out of it, if ever.
VF is still recognized as a super hardcore game when it's not the case, anime fighters are supposedly inaccessible even after improving a lot on that side, KOF is just about combos, SFV will be recognized as a mess forever, etc.
Unfortunately, once a series get a widely recognized reputation, it's extremely hard to get out of it, if ever.
VF is still recognized as a super hardcore game when it's not the case, anime fighters are supposedly inaccessible even after improving a lot on that side, KOF is just about combos, SFV will be recognized as a mess forever, etc.
YoshiStrife
Member
So when it comes to which fighters get in on all these esports tournies, is it simply about numbers in audience/demand? You can say millions have downloaded DOA5, but clearly there mustn't be a demand for it at esports, else it'd be there, right? Some of these anime fighters are pretty titillating and extreme on the sexism, but they are still a huge part of tournies. I figure if enough people demanded it and watched it, DOA5/6 could be there despite however much sex and Soft Engine they put in there.
I'm really happy. I have other fighters games if I want other things. I just want DoA to be a good/fun game.
It is all demand, people willing to travel and play, and publisher/developer backing. DoA5 was at least at evo 2015, and I've watched clips of other tourneys. It just doesn't have the backing that some of the bigger names do. We will see what happens with DoA6.
Eolz
Member
It's big enough to be an important game at some tournaments like NEC, and is consistently big enough to be at most tournaments over some anime games or similar, but it's not close to the big ones obviously.
I think Shin knows more about that scene than me lel.
The sexy stuff issue is really only once there is a tv deal with a specific channel, like SFV/Smash. But that's even too big for Tekken and other games, so...
edit: TN always supports it in tourneys too, so they're fine being at that level for now, but obviously don't want to go lower than that (and I can't see that happening unless DOA5 was the final game like VF5 was the end of VF)...
I think Shin knows more about that scene than me lel.
The sexy stuff issue is really only once there is a tv deal with a specific channel, like SFV/Smash. But that's even too big for Tekken and other games, so...
edit: TN always supports it in tourneys too, so they're fine being at that level for now, but obviously don't want to go lower than that (and I can't see that happening unless DOA5 was the final game like VF5 was the end of VF)...
lucebuce12
Member
All DoA really needs to do is get people playing the game and keep playing the game. That's it really. They can certainly help incentivize players by adding pot bonuses to tournaments with the game. They should also start doing what almost every dev is doing, and sell stuff online where part of the proceeds goes to the tournaments. It doesn't matter if they sell 100 swimsuits every month if the game is still healthy online as well as in the tournament scene.
They already prioritize features like reliable training modes and teaching people how to play the game. They just need a robust online mode complete with GOOD netcode.
If they maintain the F2P model and keep the pricing fair then this game has the potential to be bigger than even DoA5. Bonus points if they managed to incorporate crossplay of any kind (though that's unlikely tbh).
Part of the reason why Killer Instinct managed to keep itself not only alive but health all this time was due to FANTASTIC netcode which really helped facilitate a lot of potential tournament going players. Like a very decent chunk of the tournament going players in that game were originally just online warriors.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
Philly area DOA scene is huge, but yea the tournament scene for the game just isnt very large. Tournament scene for 3D games has been fucking tiny for a while. Tekken's success on that front might actually help DOA out.
My biggest worry about DoA6.
Oh and before this gets buried, I will be away this weekend but I will try to make next weekend if there is one.
DamonForever
Member
I've always felt that the biggest knock against DOA is the mid-combo counter system, at least from the more hardcore FGC section. It seemed to me that the issue of being able to break-free and damage your opponent when you were hit first is something many have argued against. The critical limit helped alleviate this in DOA5 (among other things), and I still love the counter system overall, but I think many have written off DOA because of it.
The cosmetic stuff just makes it easier to give the game shade.
The cosmetic stuff just makes it easier to give the game shade.
At this point, other fighters such as SFV and T7 (same applied to T6) aren't really a whole lot better about fanservice for people who find that sort of thing off-putting. Between the series' history for it since the beginning and the attempt by TN to change course so late down the line that ultimately crashed and burned after receiving much greater backlash than they had anticipated, I believe that it's safe to conclude that DoA is set in its ways. And yeah, since people tend to stick to their perceptions regarding specific franchises and types of fighters once their minds are made up, I wouldn't see much of a point of trying to revisit the same attempt at reinvention that didn't work the first time with 5.
Further refining what they already have with LR gameplay-wise, accounting for more detailed backgrounds and environmental effects, much improved netcode, and potentially a filter that lets players decide which outfits they do and do not see individually both offline and online (both for defaults and DLC) seem like the best things to prioritize for a DoA6.
Further refining what they already have with LR gameplay-wise, accounting for more detailed backgrounds and environmental effects, much improved netcode, and potentially a filter that lets players decide which outfits they do and do not see individually both offline and online (both for defaults and DLC) seem like the best things to prioritize for a DoA6.
YoshiStrife
Member
I think what I am most curious about is if TN had simply ignored the backlash to begin with and actually did all they could to remove that stigma, where could 5 have ended up? No breast settings, no bikinis, no pandering characters like Honoka and Marie. Would it be more or less popular than it is now, and would it have more of an esports presence? We'll never know, but it makes me wonder.
Whatever they do with 6, I'll be there. I just hope it reaches the masses a little more next time.
Whatever they do with 6, I'll be there. I just hope it reaches the masses a little more next time.
I love Doa5's Home Courtyard track, it just "feels Kung Fu" - I'm not familiar with tracks from the previous games, but I take it it's specific to 5?
I think DOA5 did well. 3D fighting games just aren't the biggest genre out there.
This is a huge knock, but it's just different. Doesn't make it better or worse. Doesn't matter the mechanics as long as a community can be built around it. The myth is that people from other games need to play a game to build a community, but you just need people that like DoA that are willing to show up, travel, enter tournaments, go to casuals.
DoA doesn't have that throughout most of the US (dunno how popular it is overseas).
But it's hard to get somebody interested in playing this game when the first thing they see is:
(just chose random outfit, lmao)
Oh, and fuck Marie Rose. If DoA6 goes further in that direction, not even my love of the series will make me play it.
Edit: and i'm just talking competitively. I think DoA is doing fine with casual players for the most part. Obviously.
YoshiStrife
Member
Yeah, stage themes for 5 maps are original.
YoshiStrife
Member
I would need to check, but I think the music customisation only entered when Ultimate launched. But that's not too bad, since it came out a year after vanilla.
Edit: Yup, introduced in DOA5U.
Honestly can't predict, but I would assume Marie and Honoka is more than enough pandering to a very specific audience for one series' liking. We can assume they'll have large story roles to play, but I don't think we'll be getting school girl-likes after these two...
ShinMaruku
Member
The shit posters and people who say x is preventing them from playing the game ,by and large would never play the game regardless, It is better that they make a fun game and support it. They could keep the stuff in the DLC and keep it out of the marketing, but the I'm a fighter thing never went over well. I'd rather them focus on what they are comfortable on.
Exactly so, it has no tourney scene. Also I would say not being entrenched in the FGC can be a strength since it will allow them to look outside that demographic. Most of those people are taken and only play their games, you cannot convert them. It is not worth the effort. Grow your own thing.
What is driving the e-farce tourney scene is the publisher working with other groups and running events and putting their own money into it. I don't think KT will do that because that shit is a loss leader and I don't see them doing that. You can ask Capcom how putting in 1 million into tournies in the past 2 years has done for SF5.
Netcode is a concern, they would have to hire a western netcode contractor to work on the netcode and actually invest in the thing.
I am not too bothered by the counter thing because as Azuardo how fighting Alpha is where if he holds he holds this 70% damage throw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-EtgQYGPFA
Count the high counter throws you see in this match.
lucebuce12
Member
OK, now I think I'm getting what makes Rachel so good.
I still think her damage output isn't THAT great and she's still a somewhat high skill-floor character but boy can she bully people and she has great tools to do that.
I still think her damage output isn't THAT great and she's still a somewhat high skill-floor character but boy can she bully people and she has great tools to do that.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I honestly do not think there will be a DOA6, at least anytime soon. Hopefully, I am wrong, but I honestly think by the time we see it, Tekken 8 might be unveiled and that is saying something based on Tekken's release history.
YoshiStrife
Member
I think that's the right way to do things. It does seem like it's hard to break into the tourney scene without serious investment, which, as you say, is likely not worth the effort and money for KT.
I am not too bothered by the counter thing because as Azuardo how fighting Alpha is where if he holds he holds this 70% damage throw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-EtgQYGPFA
Count the high counter throws you see in this match.
At least I didn't get BURST last night like that Jann there XD That counts for something
ShinMaruku
Member
Her damage is what comes off the enviromental stuff and her set ups. She also had a loop they removed.
Those throws did equivalent damage though.I think that's the right way to do things. It does seem like it's hard to break into the tourney scene without serious investment, which, as you say, is likely not worth the effort and money for KT.
At least I didn't get BURST last night like that Jann there XD That counts for something
Lol was me. Barely know anything about DOA, let alone DOA threads on GAF and thought Honoka was cool because she knows a lot of fighting styles. Certainly learned a lot in the thread haha
Am still enjoying the game tho. Haven't really got into a fighting game like this in years. It's a lot of fun.
Oh god, that would suck!
It's already sucked. DOA6 should have happened by now.
Care to mention any reason why you think that DOA 6 isn't going to happen anytime soon?
It's all good, general can just be vicious with this game.
I think it's pretty much a guarantee Marie has taken over as DOA poster girl. They might start with Kashmiri, just for the sake of tradition, but they know Marie and Honoka are popular and they've leaned into that pretty hard. What I'm worried about is how well they keep that stuff contained. There are going to be new characters. 50/59 chance I ne will be yet another Loli. If so, I'm really hoping it ends there.
I sincerely doubt it. Other than X3, they haven't put Honoka as the poster girl of anything. They definitely didn't set her up to be anything special in the story or even enough of a personality to be the main character.
Look I don't like Honoka gameplay wise or any other wise, so I don't care what they do to her. But if I am being honest I don't see much difference between say her characters and Hitomi/leifang/kokoro. Granted they have been around longer and have more... personality.
If they do get rid of Marie Rose at least copy paste 90% of her kit to a new person, because I do play her. Also it wouldn't kill TN to make all the newcomers not have DD.
Quite positive that there's zero chance of them getting rid of her. As for the other thing, I agree that for the sake of variety, they could stand not to go as large as possible for bust sizes for every new addition down the line.
She looks like a little girl with massive breasts. That's the difference. I think the only reason she doesn't have that big role right now is because she was DLC, as was Marie. And Marie got on the cover with Kasumi for LR.
Whether it's a problem is up to you, but I think the seeds are there.
Hey, I would play more of it if its netcode wasn't so trash.
As an aside, it reminds me of something that Dave Lang brought up about Divekick. About how one of his biggest mistakes with that game was how they spent too much time courting fighting game players when it reality it turned out that the game's target demographic was more from people who enjoy indie local multiplayer games (like Towerfall, Gang Beasts, etc.). So they probably should just focus on making a product that people would want to play in this day and age
which would include working online modes and a good PC version *cough* *cough*
As for the events themselves, you know that these events by and large are still rather grassroots events, right? They've gotten more businesslike over the years, but that's due to necessity as the events have grown. Ultimately, the game doesn't show up at events because there's no offline playerbase willing to staff and run those events.
And the whole esports business is about the only thing Capcom's had any real success with regards to SF5. :x Probably not the best point of comparison to make there.
That would mean they would need to make more than two female models, then.
...which then means that you're probably going to see more characters like Marie, since they're going to want to get more mileage out of those models. D: Game's gonna start looking like Arcana Heart.
Care to mention any reason why you think that DOA 6 isn't going to happen anytime soon?
My guess would be because they're still making money off all the costume DLC and F2P model stuff for DOA5.
I would very much like to see a DOA6 released in the next year. I'd love to go back to DOA5, but the quality of online matches just sucks for the most part, especially with so many other fighting games out on current-gen platforms now. I hope that they do a good job with a PC version next go-round, too.
But it's hard to get somebody interested in playing this game when the first thing they see is:
(just chose random outfit, lmao)
I don't see why that would matter. Or rather, you can provide the same type of example of scantily-clad females in pretty much every fighting game out there, from Street Fighter to even Virtua Fighter. As far as insane, overly-exaggerated fan service goes, Soul Calibur took that crown from DOA years ago and that didn't stop it from being a much larger part of the tourney scene compared to DOA.
Nah. For other games, whilst you COULD put up a similar example, you'd pretty much have to go out of your way to, so it's not likely going to be what you naturally first encounter when you stumble upon the game. Set DoA to random select everything and the above shot is a surprisingly likely outcome. The ratio of female to make characters are higher than average, and the ratio of casual to skimpy outfits is waaaaaay beyond its peers. Soul Calibur isn't even close to overtaking DoA in this regards, and with DoA's recent character additions the gap is arguably wider than ever before.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
and DOA still sells more than most fighting games. So it really doesn't matter.
We're not talking about sales. We're talking about actually being able to play the game with other people. That absolutely matters, especially when TN has shitty netcode.
I disagree. The number of women and outfits they get in this game is nothing in comparison to any other fighter. I...really don't see how you can say SoulCalibur took the crown from DoA. The only thing that comes to mind is a few character portraits and outfits in SC4. Most of that was removed in SC5 and didn't exist before then.
This.
This isn't even really true when talking about the bigger name fighting IP. Whilst DoA may consistently outsell stuff like King of Fighters or Blazblue (and even that likely gets questionable when counting iterations like we would be for Last Round), it certainly hasn't historically outsold the heavy hitters like Tekken, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Injustice, Smash, Soul Calibur etc. In this sphere it only really overtook Virtua Fighter. Street Fighter V is a bit of a sales disaster also, but it's that 1.5m DoA5's sold is true, then it's taken DoA5 6 years across a bunch of platforms to match SFV's current "failure" numbers. And god only knows how many of those sales are from people like myself that now own the game across 4 different platforms.
Not that sales was the point regardless, but anyway.
EDIT: Actually, at 1.5m it probably wouldn't have overtaken Virtua Fighter 5 either. More that there just hasn't been any more Virtua Fighter games.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
If the majority of people were actually bothered enough by sexuality to skip playing something around other people (they arent). That has nothing to do with DOA's turnouts.
If you say so.