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Dead Space 3 |OT| Can I Play With Madness?

By the end of the game the weapon crafting, for me at least, ended up being "what 2 guns do you want with force knockback as the secondary?" The answer was heavy SMG and grenade launcher. Actually, after trying the grenade launcher, I only switched to the SMG for longer shots (basically only against humans or lurkers).

I liked the game, but the combat balancing removed the need for strategic dismemberment.
 

luxarific

Nork unification denier
img005_zpsad8ba07a.jpg

Great review, but I have to laugh at the credits comment. DS3's credits are nothing, NOTHING, compared to anything that Ubi puts out. IIRC they actually ran out of music in the credit roll for the last Splinter Cell game. The final 10-15 minutes of the credits play in silence.

Also, I really hope we get a "Dan and His Dad" video for DS3. The one for DS2 was hilarious.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
I remember both Max Payne 3 and Tom Clancys Future Soldier running out of music for the end credits. In fact i think Future Soldier is the worst offender, i remember someone saying its like 30 mins long. I know Max Payne 3 must have been 15-20 min long. Fucking crazy the people they get on these projects. But at least they are credited. I still scratch my head over news of people not getting credited.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Why do people keep saying Dead Space is/was Survival Horror? The first game was an action game just like the second and third...

There seems to be a very fine line when it comes to whats SH or not. The first game may have had more quiet moments maybe? I dont know. I know all the games tend to eventually throw a ton of shit at you and turn into intense action.
 

DocSeuss

Member
There seems to be a very fine line when it comes to whats SH or not. The first game may have had more quiet moments maybe? I dont know. I know all the games tend to eventually throw a ton of shit at you and turn into intense action.

The first game had the best pacing, but every good action game should have some downtime.
 

Monkey Pants

Outpost Games Creative Director
I remember both Max Payne 3 and Tom Clancys Future Soldier running out of music for the end credits. In fact i think Future Soldier is the worst offender, i remember someone saying its like 30 mins long. I know Max Payne 3 must have been 15-20 min long. Fucking crazy the people they get on these projects. But at least they are credited. I still scratch my head over news of people not getting credited.

The first game art team I was on was nine people (1996, Playstation One). Now art teams of over a hundred are not unheard of, especially if you count outsourcing.
 

JBourne

maybe tomorrow it rains
That final co-op optional mission...

Damn. Playing on pure survival, and we hit the final bit with no medkits or ammo. Had to restart and stock up, and I still died 6 times (as Carver). Neither of us could figure out what to do, and I'm not telling my partner what's going on in my section. He'll be playing Carver for our next playthrough, and we're both really particular about spoilers.


The optional missions in co-op are so great. Definitely my favorite parts of the game. My buddy and I were both pretty critical of the game after our solo playthroughs, but now we're really loving it. We've embraced the hokiness of the story, the encounters are more manageable while still being intense, and there's a nice mix of required teamwork and freedom to do our things.

Co-op is easily taking this from a 7.5/10 to a 9/10 for me, if I had to assign a number. It's just a blast.
 

Moff

Member
Why do people keep saying Dead Space is/was Survival Horror? The first game was an action game just like the second and third...

Its a resident evil 4 clone, and I think people called that action horror, which is some kind of an action heavy game with survival horror elements such as little ammo, big vulnerabilty and a tense atmosphere. I think dead space 1, although you played a kickass engineer in heay armor and big guns, managed to fit in that description well.

that being said, I think dead space 2 und 3 were still good, although they became faster. at least for me this worked, I think all games are pretty good. but although I loved dead space 1 when it was released, I always thought it was not a perfect game. all three games have their ups and downs and now, after some distance, I have no problem seeing them as equal.
 

Mike M

Nick N
That final co-op optional mission...

Damn. Playing on pure survival, and we hit the final bit with no medkits or ammo. Had to restart and stock up, and I still died 6 times (as Carver). Neither of us could figure out what to do, and I'm not telling my partner what's going on in my section. He'll be playing Carver for our next playthrough, and we're both really particular about spoilers.

Man, I hated playing that bit as Carver. There's like... zero hint at WTF you're supposed to do.
 

JBourne

maybe tomorrow it rains
Man, I hated playing that bit as Carver. There's like... zero hint at WTF you're supposed to do.

Yeah, I was incredibly frustrated. It also takes a lot of shots to put it down, using a bolas fun with +2 damage mods in each slot. Probably the most difficult part of the entire series so far, and the difficulty for pure survival isn't as bad as it's going to be for my buddy when we do our impossible run. Poor bastard.
 

Mike M

Nick N
Yeah, I was incredibly frustrated. It also takes a lot of shots to put it down, using a bolas fun with +2 damage mods in each slot. Probably the most difficult part of the entire series so far, and the difficulty for pure survival isn't as bad as it's going to be for my buddy when we do our impossible run. Poor bastard.

It absolutely does not help that the previous sequences don't require that. I'm pretty sure the first one just requires you to reach the end, and the second I think you just need to shoot it once. Then the third one comes along, and you have to have the perseverance to just keep shooting before it even registers that you're doing damage to it to clue you in that you're doing something right.
 

Bagels

You got Moxie, kid!
Why do people keep saying Dead Space is/was Survival Horror? The first game was an action game just like the second and third...

I certainly get your point (the line in the first pa, but I still think the original was really going for something different than straight-up action. First, it was far and away the scariest of the games. The atmosphere was very tense, you weren't CONSTANTLY being swarmed by enemies, there were way more scares beyond "enemies pour out of the ventilation...again. Second, ammo was, if not original Resident Evil scarce, still pretty scarce for a modern game. You were generally battling small numbers of enemies, and the precision of your shots really mattered. It's odd in Dead Space 3, because you'd think the addition of human enemies (who can be easily killed with torso shots) would really bring out a strong contrast with the necromorphs, but they seem to have kind of abandoned the limb-shooting mechanic. It still works, you just really don't need to do it as much (outside of the stupid invincible enemies, as someone already mentioned).

The legacy of the original Dead Space makes for kind of strange action-y sequels. You still have the weighty, more ponderous movement from the original (which felt more deliberate and survival horror-y), and the need to go into a zoomed-in, limited movement mode to shoot your guns, but now you're just being swarmed. There's a disconnect there.

I'm sure hardcore SH fans don't think of Dead Space as being part of that genre. But if you had called the original an "action game," I would have thought you were nuts when I actually played it. With DS3, if you called it anything BUT an action game, I'd think the same thing.
 

JBourne

maybe tomorrow it rains
It absolutely does not help that the previous sequences don't require that. I'm pretty sure the first one just requires you to reach the end, and the second I think you just need to shoot it once. Then the third one comes along, and you have to have the perseverance to just keep shooting before it even registers that you're doing damage to it to clue you in that you're doing something right.

You actually don't even need to shoot the second one, as far as I can tell.
Once Damara stops talking, you go back to reality. I never shot the marker, just killed 2 or 3 feeders.

Despite the frustration of not knowing what to do, I loved the fact that Carver got to have such an interesting section. Our lack of communication was also making it more difficult.
I didn't want to tell him about the marker on my side, but we figured it out because he told me the marker on his side was glowing (as I was shooting bolas that were going through enemies and onto the marker on my side).
 

Bagels

You got Moxie, kid!
Great review, but I have to laugh at the credits comment. DS3's credits are nothing, NOTHING, compared to anything that Ubi puts out. IIRC they actually ran out of music in the credit roll for the last Splinter Cell game. The final 10-15 minutes of the credits play in silence.

Also, I really hope we get a "Dan and His Dad" video for DS3. The one for DS2 was hilarious.


To be honest, I think the same thing after finishing any AAA game - how many people worked on this thing?! Good God!

That video was amazing.
 

Replicant

Member
Jesus F Christ!!! The save system in this game is truly one massive epic fail.

What the fuck? I clearly have deposited the 2 Rosetta stones from Paleontology and I only quit when I was sure that the game has saved my progress up to that point.

So I went out into the menu and tried out co-op with some random guy. When I finished that, I hit "load last save" but that left me back at Chapter 13 where I last played co-op with this random guy. So I thought "Fine, let's load the last story progress save" but that one basically sets me back to the beginning of Chapter 14 where I haven't collected any Rosetta stone. This is BS!
 

Eideka

Banned
Now that I had time to reflect upon DS3.....I can say that it's a decent game but nothing remarquable at all.

I'm not sure it will sell 5 millions copies...
 

Hesemonni

Banned
Oh wow, what a shitty section the fire section is. The one with two regenerators running after you and flames bursting from air vents.
 

Batman

Banned
Jesus F Christ!!! The save system in this game is truly one massive epic fail.

What the fuck? I clearly have deposited the 2 Rosetta stones from Paleontology and I only quit when I was sure that the game has saved my progress up to that point.

So I went out into the menu and tried out co-op with some random guy. When I finished that, I hit "load last save" but that left me back at Chapter 13 where I last played co-op with this random guy. So I thought "Fine, let's load the last story progress save" but that one basically sets me back to the beginning of Chapter 14 where I haven't collected any Rosetta stone. This is BS!

The co-op is to blame for the save system. So if they somehow make a 4th game I hope EA backs off and lets Visceral make another single player masterpiece.
 

Mike M

Nick N
The co-op is to blame for the save system. So if they somehow make a 4th game I hope EA backs off and lets Visceral make another single player masterpiece.

The co-op is to blame for the style, but not for the terrible implementation. The game clearly has soft checkpoints seperate from the autosave checkpoints. If it autosaved at those points as well, I doubt anyone would have a problem.
 

Batman

Banned
The co-op is to blame for the style, but not for the terrible implementation. The game clearly has soft checkpoints seperate from the autosave checkpoints. If it autosaved at those points as well, I doubt anyone would have a problem.

People are cheating the save system to beat hardcore mode, I would say it's a big problem.
 

Batman

Banned
I don't see how that is in any way related...

By getting rid of the save stations and implementing these auto-save points people are now just saving their files to USB sticks and backing it up in case they die in hardcore mode which makes it much easier to beat. That is what my first post was about, Visceral had to ditch the save stations for co-op so if there was no co-op we would still have save stations most likely.
 

Mike M

Nick N
By getting rid of the save stations and implementing these auto-save points people are now just saving their files to USB sticks and backing it up in case they die in hardcore mode which makes it much easier to beat. That is what my first post was about, Visceral had to ditch the save stations for co-op so if there was no co-op we would still have save stations most likely.

Yeah, but the original point was that the checkpoint system had failed to save the poster's progress. That's a separate issue altogether.
 
I've been pretty busy so I've only gotten to play this in short spurts. Up to chapter 5 now. Hovering around the space station is the best addition so far (I dug the outerspace sequences in DS2, and an additional exploration element is a good idea), although I wish there was something more interesting to it than resource farming. Fingers crossed something cool will pop up out there.

I'm trying to give the game a chance, but honestly almost all the major changes are for the worse so far. The universal ammo which helps prop up the tedious and unecessary weapon crafting takes away a lot of the resource management aspect. Likewise combat strategy seems more generalized to accommodate the hodge podge of gun combinations people can create. It really doesn't help that enemies uniformly bum rush you, which kills a lot of the strategic nature of using the terrain and balancing ranged attacks vs. close quarter combat. Terrible decisions all around, and a reflection of the inability of the dev team to actually reflect on the criticisms of DS2, which devolved into a similarly obnoxious clusterfuck in the final chapters.

Material collection, which on the surface seems like a good idea in practice ends up feeling like collectathon padding. The main thing is the currency of the system, which leans heavily towards the looting side. They could have cut all the superflous resources and just sprinkled around rare parts in difficult to reach places creating a balanced risk reward system where no part placement was arbitrary, but instead you're left scrounging for the 50th bit of scrap metal or whatever to craft another doohickey. It's pretty unsatisfying. The fact that you can delegate to a robot says it all. And btw, what a poor excuse for halving the number of weapon slots. For a fucking automated resource mining droid. Awful.

Then there's the save system. Oh, the save system. Remember when we were reassured the co-op wouldn't affect the single player experience? Total BS. I don't need to say more about this. A quick glance through the thread shows that pretty much everyone agrees it's ass backwards and a downgrade. It's boggles the mind that this made it all the way through development. It actually keeps me from playing the game when I'm on a tight leash, because I can't just run back to a save station if I have to quit on short notice.

Charater interaction is also super annoying. Throughout the sequels there's been a direct relationship between how much Issac talks and how little I care about his plight. Although I'm a proponent of the silent protagonist in this type of game, I could stomach certain ways of handling the narrative and dialogue. Basically, as a writer don't overstep the boundries of what you're capable of in good taste. But no, in predictable gaming fashion we get Issac, the turdly everyman. I hate how contemporary the dialect is (no regard to theme or sense of place here), and how super-awesome-cool-above-it-all they paint Issac compared to other characters. And yet ultimately every character comes across as an unlikeable douche. If you can't write likable characters simply adding in more of them is a really poor solution. They should have stuck with the audio log shtick and random survivors who fit a limited context from DS1. The more prolonged interpersonal drama, the worse the script fares, and so far DS3 is a real stinker. Echoes of Nicole going from a frightening and symbolically potent spectre to chatty cathy/bitchy ex in DS2, thus proving the less said the better.

The most frustrating thing about all this imo is that it boils down to taste and vision, an inborn sense of what works and what waters down. That was what caught me off guard with DS1, which I only played at a friends insistence after my initial skepticism. You could tell someone with a very astute understanding of all this stuff was at the helm, and it was the product of a clear and comprehensive vision. The game, in spite of a few foibles, came across as a well balanced and complete all around experience, with a surprising knack for knowing when to show restraint and when to go over the top, which it did in equal measure.

The sequels completely lack that sense of circumspection. The series is increasingly about throwing more shit at you, because, you know, more is always better. And the bum out is that it's not a lack of technical skill or artistic talent that's the culprit. DS still oozes cool factor through its environments and some of the more inspired sequences. The suit designs are amazing. DS2 did a wonderful job refining and expanding the combat mechanics. The sci-fi horror aesthetic is better tan what we get out of any modern movie in the same genre imo. What the sequels lack is the coherent vision that carved out the original game's niche as more than just a RE4 clone in space. DS3 is still a respectable shooter with good production values, and I'm curious to see what sequences I run across. It's just a shame that so much of the potential of the series has been flushed down the toilet to make room for every hackneyed feature other shooters thid gen are known for. There's a sort of designed by committee feel to DS3 that's depressing. Not sure I regret jumping on board because of amazon's promo credit, but I have a hard time seeing another day one purchase with this franchise.
 

Batman

Banned
Yeah, but the original point was that the checkpoint system had failed to save the poster's progress. That's a separate issue altogether.

Yeah and it wouldn't be an issue if we had the save checkpoints, them making a whole new save system and not having time to polish the whole game because of EA is the problem.
 

nel e nel

Member
By getting rid of the save stations and implementing these auto-save points people are now just saving their files to USB sticks and backing it up in case they die in hardcore mode which makes it much easier to beat. That is what my first post was about, Visceral had to ditch the save stations for co-op so if there was no co-op we would still have save stations most likely.

How does other people cheesing the system for their experience affect yours?
 

pfkas

Member
Was enjoying this until upon reload twice in a row I was put back a good 20 minutes. Haven't got time for this MF bullshine.

Rage Quit and Uninstall!
 

Haunted

Member
Oh wow, what a shitty section the fire section is. The one with two regenerators running after you and flames bursting from air vents.
Yes, that's really a failed implementation.

The regenerators aren't really affected by the bursts, the other necromorphs just plop down into ragdolls right outside, and Isaac gets the same shitty canned animation every time you get hit.

Really bad.
 

Replicant

Member
Chapter 14 sub-mission: Disposal Services

Is another example of joyless, ridiculously set up enemy counter(s). Let's put Isaac in a small room with little chance to maneuver. Otherwise, put him in a room with vents in all directions. Then pour all enemies wave after wave after wave and force the player to confront them or else he can't move forward. This is also another example where the co-op clearly interferes with single player campaign. The final encounter in the area is clearly designed for a 2 people co-op instead of single player. I somehow managed to complete it alone but with only a sliver of health at the end of it all. If it's meant to induce a bravado moment, I sure didn't feel like it. I only did it because I'd be damned to have to repeat the entire unpleasant section all over again even with a co-op partner.

Top this off with the fail save system that doesn't allow you to save your new weapon creations unless you quit the game. But that would be fine, right? Oh wait, except for the fact that quitting will invalidate the entire sub-mission because for some unknown reason, sub-mission just has to be played in one go. So you die and you go back to the bench to put away your current weapon and make a new weapon. Unfortunately you then die again so you have to restart, which would have been fine if my new modified weapon doesn't disappear back to the safe in its original state. Which means you must waste another minute or so re-assembling it all over again because you just can't save the new weapon configuration without quitting the entire sub mission.
 
For some reason Im just not liking DS3 :(

I loved DS1 and liked DS2 but DS3 Im not feeling it.

It just seems more action and no more horror.

There are a few "ahhh fuck!" moments but thats only because there are lots of enemies in the room and they have pushed me into a corner and are all gang raping me at once.

I also dont like that new upgrade system.

I do enjoy the storyline so maybe I should just watch the spoiler bits on youtube?

I started off on hard then moved down to normal because it was taking too long but now I cbf at all.
 

def sim

Member
Now that I had time to reflect upon DS3.....I can say that it's a decent game but nothing remarquable at all.

I'm not sure it will sell 5 millions copies...

Is that what they have to hit to make a profit? That's unfortunate if so.

As for remarkable, I thought the space exploration and co-op only missions with their shenanigans were legitimately interesting.
 

Lima

Member
Is that what they have to hit to make a profit? That's unfortunate if so.

If they have to hit that target for profit, there is something very wrong with this industry. So no but it is what an EA executive said in an interview last year to keep "the franchise viable".
 

nel e nel

Member
We now have auto saving points that don't save, that's the issue. What I am trying to say is that it is a circle that came about because of EA.

A small percentage of people reporting a problem does not equal a system-wide failure. Glitches happen all the time from audio cues not loading properly to quests not activating. Granted, it's not as game breaking as a save not working properly, but to paint this broad stroke that the system is broken for everyone is fallacious.
 

Mike M

Nick N
A small percentage of people reporting a problem does not equal a system-wide failure. Glitches happen all the time from audio cues not loading properly to quests not activating. Granted, it's not as game breaking as a save not working properly, but to paint this broad stroke that the system is broken for everyone is fallacious.

I don't think he's talking about glitching saves, I think he's talking about how the game saves your progress at checkpoints relatively infrequently while maintaining a separate series of checkpoints you respawn from if you die. If it saved your progress at each of those points, we'd have much less lost progress from quitting before you reach the next single activation save checkpoint.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I don't think he's talking about glitching saves, I think he's talking about how the game saves your progress at checkpoints relatively infrequently while maintaining a separate series of checkpoints you respawn from if you die. If it saved your progress at each of those points, we'd have much less lost progress from quitting before you reach the next single activation save checkpoint.
Curious. Does the save feature have this issue on both console versions or is one or another likely to see this?
 

Mike M

Nick N
Curious. Does the save feature have this issue on both console versions or is one or another likely to see this?

I'd be incredibly surprised if there's a difference between both console versions, it's just the way the system was designed. If you want to quit, you either have to keep playing until you see the save icon, or you resign to losing progress since the last one.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I'd be incredibly surprised if there's a difference between both console versions, it's just the way the system was designed. If you want to quit, you either have to keep playing until you see the save icon, or you resign to losing progress since the last one.
Just wondering. Only familiar with 360 version.
 
Chapter 14 sub-mission: Disposal Services

Is another example of joyless, ridiculously set up enemy counter(s). Let's put Isaac in a small room with little chance to maneuver. Otherwise, put him in a room with vents in all directions. Then pour all enemies wave after wave after wave and force the player to confront them or else he can't move forward. This is also another example where the co-op clearly interferes with single player campaign. The final encounter in the area is clearly designed for a 2 people co-op instead of single player. I somehow managed to complete it alone but with only a sliver of health at the end of it all. If it's meant to induce a bravado moment, I sure didn't feel like it. I only did it because I'd be damned to have to repeat the entire unpleasant section all over again even with a co-op partner.

Top this off with the fail save system that doesn't allow you to save your new weapon creations unless you quit the game. But that would be fine, right? Oh wait, except for the fact that quitting will invalidate the entire sub-mission because for some unknown reason, sub-mission just has to be played in one go. So you die and you go back to the bench to put away your current weapon and make a new weapon. Unfortunately you then die again so you have to restart, which would have been fine if my new modified weapon doesn't disappear back to the safe in its original state. Which means you must waste another minute or so re-assembling it all over again because you just can't save the new weapon configuration without quitting the entire sub mission.

I enjoyed the game overall, but I agree this mission felt kind of cheap. I remember it was hard even in co-op, but on my solo run it got silly. Died a couple times in every room leading to the finale, then died in the last room like 6 or 7 times - after holding out for like 4 or 5 minutes each time. Eventually I just crafted like ten medium health packs and spammed the B button when I got swarmed. I'm on Classic mode, which defaults to 'hard'.

The last room was comical, I'd be fighting for a few minutes and then there would be a lull. And I was like "wow, that was rough" then more twitchy guys appeared and another couple of those inky-dark axe wielding guys who never die dropped out of vents. I swear you can shoot those axe dudes until nothing is left and their armless, legless, headless torso would still find a way to kill you.
 

nel e nel

Member
I don't think he's talking about glitching saves, I think he's talking about how the game saves your progress at checkpoints relatively infrequently while maintaining a separate series of checkpoints you respawn from if you die. If it saved your progress at each of those points, we'd have much less lost progress from quitting before you reach the next single activation save checkpoint.

This was part of the discussion in response to Replicant's post above where his "Progress Saving" indication didn't work properly, and he had to go through a whole checkpoint again when he tried to continue his game.


And totally agree on Disposal Services. That was a bitch on Impossible solo.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Hey Mr. Monkey Pants and Codecow.... I am dying to see what (hopefully) the next Dead Space looks like on Xbox720/PS4. The graphics so beautiful now it's gonna be ridiculous awesome fighting Necromorphs next-gen! Make it so!
 

Splatt

Member
Just finished it.

After the first few chapters that tried to pull of DS1 atmosphere, which I liked, it goes all out on the action part. Towards the end it became tedious with all the backtracking and throwing hordes of enemies at you.

I have to mention, the biggest problem for me, is the save system. It's bullshit. I stopped doing sidequests when I realised I had to do them in one go. Checkpoints are also badly placed.

Overall, I'd say I enjoyed the game, but I'm sad that we won't get another DS in the vein of the first.
 

Moff

Member
3dvision is very impressive in this game btw. havent seen anything like this. especially the cutscenes. its still flawed, even with the helix mod, but damn does it look good most of the time.
 
Finished my classic mode run. I used the plasma cutter 90% of the time, with the contact beam for stronger enemies. I enjoyed the game all over again, basically up to that Disposal Services mission. From then on, it got kind of frustrating - it seemed like the waves of enemies got to be comically large in certain areas, you just get swarmed faster than you can shoot (I also never felt like I could get the plasma cutter to be as badass with circuits as I could get it with p. nodes in 1 & 2). I definitely prefer the earlier areas when you're exploring abandoned buildings and ships, piecing together what happened with the tension super high, rather than slogging through the endgame onslaught. Still, game definitely delivers and was highly enjoyed.
 

Mike M

Nick N
I felt like I was missing something with the tram stations on Tau Volantis, I never had any other stations available. I'm guessing because the ones down the line were the side missions I had already completed, and the ones up the line were the ones that I hadn't gained the prompt to access yet? I guess that's kinda handy for going back for side missions you skipped, but did anyone actually say to themselves, "I'll just come back for that in six chapters..."? And you can't access them once the side mission is cleared, so you could easily wind up where the nearest tram station is as far as back tracking to the mission itself. Seems like an odd feature that would only benefit a few players while confounding the rest.
 
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