• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dear Esther |OT|

Berto

Member
I'd probably have to play it again to be sure;
but I'm certain there's more than one narrator, the changes in tone are far too drastic for me to suggest it's one person throughout. Unless we're faced with a narrator completely detached from the story itself
I think they recorded a few new lines for the remake, perhaps the narrator sounds a bit different on those new lines?
 

Spoo

Member
Dear Esther isn't trying to do the same thing as Amnesia at all, or vice versa.

You're right, only in that, the former does not a quarter of the latter with even equal success.

Dear Esther is not much more than a 1-hour demo that shows off some hefty artistic chops, but not much else. Amnesia is a game that values interaction; Dear Esther has none. Amnesia is open to exploration, Dear Esther feigns exploratory value with hidden walls and two paths; one that leads somewhere, and one that doesn't.

They both, of course, try for a narrative. And the acting in both is more than passable, and the stories in both are adequately told (albeit, one is a much shorter story).

Of course, Dear Esther tries to be atmospheric, and the results there are good, but have no significant build-up, because there isn't a "game" there to support such a thing.

If this were a 3 dollar game, I would hold it in high regard as a show-piece for Source engine's relevancy today despite a few ingrained hold-ups in the tech itself. As a 10 dollar product, however, it manages little in the way of justifying the cost.

And yeah, people are free to say "Oh, it's not trying to do X" but at what point is it okay to ask that it do try to do something, anything even, to justify its existence? It's a great showcase for Source, and probably (and rightly) should make people pay attention to its authors various strengths, but as a $10 dollar product that Steam champions as "Original," I ask, in what way? In that it has a narrative? Again, Amnesia, again, 100 times better.
 

ArjanN

Member
You're right, only in that, the former does not a quarter of the latter with even equal success.

Dear Esther is not much more than a 1-hour demo that shows off some hefty artistic chops, but not much else. Amnesia is a game that values interaction; Dear Esther has none. Amnesia is open to exploration, Dear Esther feigns exploratory value with hidden walls and two paths; one that leads somewhere, and one that doesn't.

They both, of course, try for a narrative. And the acting in both is more than passable, and the stories in both are adequately told (albeit, one is a much shorter story).

Of course, Dear Esther tries to be atmospheric, and the results there are good, but have no significant build-up, because there isn't a "game" there to support such a thing.

If this were a 3 dollar game, I would hold it in high regard as a show-piece for Source engine's relevancy today despite a few ingrained hold-ups in the tech itself. As a 10 dollar product, however, it manages little in the way of justifying the cost.

And yeah, people are free to say "Oh, it's not trying to do X" but at what point is it okay to ask that it do try to do something, anything even, to justify its existence? It's a great showcase for Source, and probably (and rightly) should make people pay attention to its authors various strengths, but as a $10 dollar product that Steam champions as "Original," I ask, in what way? In that it has a narrative? Again, Amnesia, again, 100 times better.

The comparison to Amnesia just makes no sense. It's completely apples and oranges.

And to answer your question what it does to justify it's existence: the experience of playing it, being immersed in the atmosphere completely justified the cost for me.
 
I wasn't very interested in getting the game but the good impressions make it sound like it's pretty, at least. Quick question about save points and cliffs since I've seen this mentioned:

Since you can apparently kill yourself by jumping off a cliff, do you have to restart the whole thing, or just automatically restart that chapter?

You'll respawn straight from where you jumped off
 

Spoo

Member
The comparison to Amnesia just makes no sense. It's completely apples and oranges.

I'm not sure why. I thought what little game there was was creepy enough; it had a sense of dread to it that held a similar consistency to Amnesia for me. I'm fine with it if the comparison doesn't fly, so I'll stop making it.

And to answer your question what it does to justify it's existence: the experience of playing it, being immersed in the atmosphere completely justified the cost for me.

I'm not going to stomp on peoples' enjoyment, if that's what they had, but the experience of playing it, if it can be quantified, was not a $10 experience for me. There was walking, and then walking, and then more walking, and finally there was a black screen. There's an air of pretension surrounding the product where the implicit suggestion of the black screen is, hey, you're done, wasn't that an experience?!. Well, yes, it was an experience... that I've had before, and better. But thanks, anyway. That it's being applauded for originality is mind-boggling; in what sense is this original? Can someone describe for me without ambiguity the qualities I've missed that explain why $10 dollars for this is a fair price?

I have a really hard time believing that anyone who looks at this with a critical eye at the cost of the game is really going to sit down a few days later and really feel like they got something out of this. But, if they do, that's fine. I guess it's just not for me. Thought I'd put in my 2 cents. Thanks to inflation, I guess they may not be worth that.
 

ArjanN

Member
I'm not sure why. I thought what little game there was was creepy enough; it had a sense of dread to it that held a similar consistency to Amnesia for me. I'm fine with it if the comparison doesn't fly, so I'll stop making it.

Amnesia is a surivival horror game where every element of the game is designed to be terrifying, and there's way more focus on the more 'gamey' elements. Dear Ester was barely trying to be scary at all. IMO it's going for a moody melancholic sort of atmosphere and it's more like a painting or an audio book you can walk through.

I'm not going to stomp on peoples' enjoyment, if that's what they had, but the experience of playing it, if it can be quantified, was not a $10 experience for me.There was walking, and then walking, and then more walking, and finally there was a black screen.

Well, it was worth it for me. Agree to disagree I guess.

IMO saying it's just walking, walking, black screen is being pretty reductionist though.
 

Inkwell

Banned
I'm not sure why. I thought what little game there was was creepy enough; it had a sense of dread to it that held a similar consistency to Amnesia for me. I'm fine with it if the comparison doesn't fly, so I'll stop making it.



I'm not going to stomp on peoples' enjoyment, if that's what they had, but the experience of playing it, if it can be quantified, was not a $10 experience for me. There was walking, and then walking, and then more walking, and finally there was a black screen. There's an air of pretension surrounding the product where the implicit suggestion of the black screen is, hey, you're done, wasn't that an experience?!. Well, yes, it was an experience... that I've had before, and better. But thanks, anyway. That it's being applauded for originality is mind-boggling; in what sense is this original? Can someone describe for me without ambiguity the qualities I've missed that explain why $10 dollars for this is a fair price?

I have a really hard time believing that anyone who looks at this with a critical eye at the cost of the game is really going to sit down a few days later and really feel like they got something out of this. But, if they do, that's fine. I guess it's just not for me. Thought I'd put in my 2 cents. Thanks to inflation, I guess they may not be worth that.

It's fine if you didn't like it. I personally think the price is a little high myself, but I think something in the range of $5-7.50 would have been perfect. You are comparing this to Amnesia. It's been said already, but they're different games with different goals. I can understand if you went into this completely blind and had a different set of expectations. Amnesia is survival-horror. I'm not sure what Dear Esther is, but it's not survival horror. Not even close. I can probably find just as much in common with Dear Esther and Amnesia as I can with Dear Esther and Doom 3. There's no way you can tell me that you got more out of the story for Amnesia than you did for Dear Esther. Dear Esther is this surreal experience that's just about the story. It's told directly through narration, and also the physical island itself. To me, the game almost seems like a cross between something like Waking Life and Jacob's Ladder. I feel like I payed more for a film-like experience than an actual game. I also payed to see some amazing craftsmanship with the level design. The game is this dark and sad but beautiful experience. If you were expecting a survival horror or adventure game, I'm afraid you purchased this for the wrong reasons.

Sorry for the kind of messy disjointed post. If you can understand what I mean in my vomit of a reply, then the more power to you. At least I'll know you likely didn't have any trouble understanding Dear Esther's story.
 

etiolate

Banned
Played it last night, thought it was fantastic.

I can't help but be a TAD disappointed with the way the devs chose to end it:
Much like the RPS guy, I would've walked off of the tower, too. I walked into every weird hole and off of cliffs, killing myself repeatedly. I wanted to climb the tower myself, I wanted to talk off. It would've been the ONLY thing to do when you finally got there. Oh well, still great :)

Yeah, I think it would be more powerful for the game to let you do the final act.
 
I'm not sure why. I thought what little game there was was creepy enough; it had a sense of dread to it that held a similar consistency to Amnesia for me. I'm fine with it if the comparison doesn't fly, so I'll stop making it.



I'm not going to stomp on peoples' enjoyment, if that's what they had, but the experience of playing it, if it can be quantified, was not a $10 experience for me. There was walking, and then walking, and then more walking, and finally there was a black screen. There's an air of pretension surrounding the product where the implicit suggestion of the black screen is, hey, you're done, wasn't that an experience?!. Well, yes, it was an experience... that I've had before, and better. But thanks, anyway. That it's being applauded for originality is mind-boggling; in what sense is this original? Can someone describe for me without ambiguity the qualities I've missed that explain why $10 dollars for this is a fair price?

I have a really hard time believing that anyone who looks at this with a critical eye at the cost of the game is really going to sit down a few days later and really feel like they got something out of this. But, if they do, that's fine. I guess it's just not for me. Thought I'd put in my 2 cents. Thanks to inflation, I guess they may not be worth that.
you are a deeply cynical human being.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Also, is the audio any quieter than the original mod? When I played through the original, I seem to recall some sort of screeching/high-pitched/really loud noise, possibly near some chalk cliffs, and I seem to recall it being almost physically painful. I would rather avoid that if this version still has it.

I am reposting this for the new page. It's the main thing that keeps me from just outright buying it now.
 

Andiie

Unconfirmed Member
Just finished it today. Not sure what I felt about it overall but it was quite an experience.
I think just before chapter 3 is where it all started coming together for me.

The graphics, art and atmosphere were as impressive as I had expected. Definitely a labor of love.
I thought the ending was beautiful.

Kind of makes me interested in seeing more games made this way.
 
You're right, only in that, the former does not a quarter of the latter with even equal success.

Dear Esther is not much more than a 1-hour demo that shows off some hefty artistic chops, but not much else. Amnesia is a game that values interaction; Dear Esther has none. Amnesia is open to exploration, Dear Esther feigns exploratory value with hidden walls and two paths; one that leads somewhere, and one that doesn't.

They both, of course, try for a narrative. And the acting in both is more than passable, and the stories in both are adequately told (albeit, one is a much shorter story).

Of course, Dear Esther tries to be atmospheric, and the results there are good, but have no significant build-up, because there isn't a "game" there to support such a thing.

If this were a 3 dollar game, I would hold it in high regard as a show-piece for Source engine's relevancy today despite a few ingrained hold-ups in the tech itself. As a 10 dollar product, however, it manages little in the way of justifying the cost.

And yeah, people are free to say "Oh, it's not trying to do X" but at what point is it okay to ask that it do try to do something, anything even, to justify its existence? It's a great showcase for Source, and probably (and rightly) should make people pay attention to its authors various strengths, but as a $10 dollar product that Steam champions as "Original," I ask, in what way? In that it has a narrative? Again, Amnesia, again, 100 times better.

Amensia is a “game” through and through. Sure, there's probably a valid argument about price versus expectation with Dear Esther but if you read one review before buying you'd probably get the gist this isn't really a game but more so an experience. My favorite analogy is that it's like a visual poem.

For me it was well worth the 10 bucks. It was very compelling for me.
 

etiolate

Banned
$10 is less than a movie ticket or a new book release. Dear Esther is an interactive, explorable piece of literature/poetry. I'm perfectly fine with what it is as it doesn't act like its anything otherwise and I'm fine with its price point. Dear Esther restricts you from many of the abilities that many games have, but it rarely takes control away from you. I've paid way more for experimental literature than I did for Dear Esther.

Amnesia is a game, much more of a game than Dear Esther. There's no point in comparing them.
 

Fjordson

Member
I just played this this morning. Fascinating game. Or movie, whatever it is, I enjoyed it a lot. I just wish there was more! Now I'm dying to know everything about all of the characters mentioned in the narration.

Some quality writing in here. I don't know, something about a lot of the dialogue just worked for me. Flowed quite nicely.

I got chills when the narrator was talking about the
white lines on the cliff face and what people had carved them for in the past. "My lines are just for this: to keep any would-be rescuers at bay. My infection is not simply of the flesh".
. Loved that line.

Also, question about the story:
I was ready to conclude that you were playing Esther's husband/lover, lamenting over the fact that she's dead from what I believe was a car accident and then he kills himself in the end. But are you actually just a nameless protagonist? Hearing the narration about Esther from letters strewn about the island? All in the last 30 minutes I remember him saying how he can't stop writing letters to Esther and how he tried to mail some off the island, making them into tiny boats, paper airplanes, etc. I also had a little bit of a narration from a second voice, possibly from someone else's letters left on the island. Your character is here for some undetermined reason, because of a traumatic experience like the others, and is learning about Esther's husband's journey through his writing. Much like the husband learned about Jakobson and Donnelley through writing and things they left behind.

I could be way off there, but it makes a lot of sense to me.

Edit:


I've just finished it, and reading through some impressions here really highlight the level of detail on show. I'd probably have to play it again to be sure;
but I'm certain there's more than one narrator, the changes in tone are far too drastic for me to suggest it's one person throughout. Unless we're faced with a narrator completely detached from the story itself
- but I say that coming fresh from finishing the game 5 minutes ago, probably need a little time for it to settle.
There absolutely is. I got a different voice when I was almost to the red light beacon. I think it's the writing from someone else who had been on the island, so you're hearing a small snippet of his story. Either Jakobson or Donnelley. Like I said above, I think most of the story is picked up by your nameless player character through reading letters that Esther's husband had written to her and left on the island. You see some of that with the little paper boats that he made out of some of his writing and left floating near the shore.

You the player, like the other people before you, came to the island due to some traumatic experience and you're gathering information based on letters and other things left behind on the island.
 
I finally got around to completing the game - took 50 minutes according to Steam, though they went pretty quickly.

It was a pretty nice experiment, and I felt a great sense of isolation even after I completed the game, the atmosphere was just superb. Primarily thanks to the amazing soundtrack and some clever narrative work. I'm not sure I'm particularly happy with just how little interactivity there was in the game, and the lack of some way to speed up character movement left me frustrated a couple of times after I realized I had taken a wrong turn and spent a minute or so traveling in the wrong direction, such is the confusing nature of the landscape during the opening chapter. Ultimately though I guess it doesn't matter, it was an experiment in atmosphere [or so I assume] and it succeeded brilliantly in that regard. I doubt I'll play it again, nor could I really recommend it to anyone, because this is the kind of game I believe you have to actively seek out to enjoy, you either love it or you'll despise it.
 
Loved it.

Any thoughts as to whether Esther
was a wife/lover or a daughter?

I also had a thought (among others) that
the PC was trying to find someone to blame in Paul (claiming he was drunk) but was ultimately coming to the realisation that sheer misfortune had caused his wife/daughter to die. I did at one point think heroine/morphine use was being alluded to due to syringes, pill bottles and reference to a sickness/body decay, but now I'm not so sure. A lot of interpretation depends on who you think the PC is and that in itself is confusing. It's also harder to determine because most people haven't heard all the variant narrative sections you get on different playthroughs which provide more information.
 

Corto

Member
I want to see the whole drawing on the wall of the final cliff. Is there a free fly mode enabled through console?
 

Xpliskin

Member
Sorry if this may seem harsh.

Holding W for an extended period of time and looking at stuff, while going through horrible niche intermediate ghost story writing, isn't my type of gameplay experience. I almost fell asleep.

The ending is cool though.
IMA DRUID B*TCHES

Nevertheless, whoever made those levels should get hired as environment artist extraordinaire.
 

Odrion

Banned
I really hope someone turns the island into a series of Counterstrike: Source maps. Just the best way to thumb your nose at this game.

Anyways, I paid $10. I played through it. It was really beautiful, and the slow pace worked for me. It let myself not worry about the destination and just look around and be in the environment....

Well, for the first ten minutes. Then I realized that I was going to be crawling around this island with no interactivity what so ever for the whole game, and of course it's going to be extremely vague with no payoff except for a pretty sequence (that you don't even get to interact in) that's "left to the viewer" to decide.

So, I enjoyed it for a bit and felt miffed for a bit. It looks great, but it really does feel like the game tries to be smarter than it really is.
 

Jebus

Member
For those that finished the game in under an hour I can't understand how you could have possibly enjoyed it. I think this quote from RockPaperShotgun article sums it up perfectly.

"Dear Esther is, in a very real sense, boring. It is supposed to be. Lonely tedium, that slow, slow walk through a stark land, leads to subconscious introspection. Ever walked along an empty beach at night? Sat alone on a hillside on a cold winter morning? Where did your mind go? Wherever it was, that’s where Dear Esther can take it. If you let it."

I found myself more often than not walking much slower than the player is able to. If you just kept walking walking walking looking for some kind of exit/finish than you missed out on a fantastic experience. 99% of games today are all about results/rewards, and for once a game is released where you're supposed to enjoy the experience without expecting a pat on the back.

I hope the quick return on investment encourages others to develop similar experiences with the same level of polish.
 

theBishop

Banned
I played about 40 minutes last night. So far I'm underwhelmed. The narrative is a bit too disjointed, and the gameplay a little too passive. Maybe it'll pick up.
 

Echoes

Member
For those that finished the game in under an hour I can't understand how you could have possibly enjoyed it. I think this quote from RockPaperShotgun article sums it up perfectly.

"Dear Esther is, in a very real sense, boring. It is supposed to be. Lonely tedium, that slow, slow walk through a stark land, leads to subconscious introspection. Ever walked along an empty beach at night? Sat alone on a hillside on a cold winter morning? Where did your mind go? Wherever it was, that’s where Dear Esther can take it. If you let it."

I found myself more often than not walking much slower than the player is able to. If you just kept walking walking walking looking for some kind of exit/finish than you missed out on a fantastic experience. 99% of games today are all about results/rewards, and for once a game is released where you're supposed to enjoy the experience without expecting a pat on the back.

I hope the quick return on investment encourages others to develop similar experiences with the same level of polish.

I did everything (if there is a thing to do) and took me 65 minutes. Went every possible route.
 

Jebus

Member
Message spoilers Below:


The number 21 seems to be a recurring theme in the messages.
"It took 21 minutes for them to arrive"
"Paul was lifeless for 21 minutes"
"I have now driven the stretch of the M5 between Exeter and Bristol over 21 times"
"I have scoured this motorway 21 times attempting to recreate his trajectory"
"They charted their course and I followed them for 21 minutes until they turned off near Sandford and were lost"
and there are 21 paper boats littered together in the level 'The Beacon' at the point where you begin to walk up the mountain. (the same point that the camera flies to after you finish the game)

Not sure what it all means but still, I thought it was interesting.
 

Inkwell

Banned
Message spoilers Below:


The number 21 seems to be a recurring theme in the messages.
"It took 21 minutes for them to arrive"
"Paul was lifeless for 21 minutes"
"I have now driven the stretch of the M5 between Exeter and Bristol over 21 times"
"I have scoured this motorway 21 times attempting to recreate his trajectory"
and there are 21 paper boats littered together in the level 'The Beacon' at the point where you begin to walk up the mountain.

Not sure what it all means but still, I thought it was interesting.

One of the lines the narrator says is about this. Something about how it can't just be coincidence. I believe it's one you get near the end.
 

Echoes

Member
Just wanted to say that I played it yesterday with all the lights off, door shut, and with headphones on (I KNOW! This should've been my first experience). And damn, it terrified the hell out of me at some points. I mean, I experienced it 2 times before the playthrough, but with the lights off (and at night) gave me one hell of a mood.

I disagree with RPS writer saying that you shouldn't (or needn't?) play it more than once.
 

Jebus

Member
disagree with RPS writer saying that you shouldn't (or needn't?) play it more than once.

Same here, Steam tells me I've played for 5 hours total and i'll still be going back to it every now and again. I like the chapter set-up rather than having saved games, there's something nice about replaying a chapter compared to just reloading a saved game.
 

Neiteio

Member
Just bought this and completed it in two hours. Totally worth $10. People spend much more money on static paintings they hang on their walls and stare at for hours. In this game, everywhere you turn is a stunning vista that could easily be a painting; I was spamming the F12 key left and right, and after the game ended I let the screen captures play in a slideshow, and I was amazed at how haunting they are. When you actually play the game, of course, you have the shifting lighting, the subtle animations, the rushing sound of wind, the rustling of foliage, the crashing of the waves, and the narration that's just enough to get your mind imagining all sorts of deeper meaning. Simply marvelous, and a great new style of game. This medium is just so diverse these days... I love it. :)
 

Corto

Member
I've finished yesterday my playthrough and returned right after to the Beacon level with the noclip command to read and watch all the drawings on the final cliffs. The obscure meaning, the disjointed narrative, the haunting beauty of some music excerpts and levels, the dread feeling of utter loneliness of some of the scenes were really striking to me. This is poetry in audio visual form. Not because it's artsy or pretentious (though some of the writing felt a bit pretentious to me-
maybe because of the different narrators as an attempt to convey the different cultural background of each of them?
), but because it uses the tools and grammar of videogames in a pure aesthetic and emotional way. I shivered while I climbed the final stairs from the strong wind and the feeling of vertigo. As a side note I don't remember another game with such stellar wind effects, with physics, visuals and sound making them just that good. I'm not sure if Dear Esther is actually a video game, but that to me is completely meaningless and an uninteresting discussion to have. I enjoyed it. I felt entertained and it made me unwind for 80-90 minutes putting me in an introspective state through the whole run. It felt to me like a
near death experience
, like Limbo, a passage.

I don't want every video game to be like Dear Esther, or try to do what this game aims to achieve, but I like that in this day and age I have the choice to enjoy it. And this developer involvement with the new Amnesia game made me that much more inclined to follow that project.
 

Neiteio

Member
This and Amnesia are two of the most emotionally powerful games ever. To have their developers work together is promising.

I would like to see this game kick off a new genre of "interactive film," if you would. Like a halfway point between movies and games. Imagine if a new wave of directors started taking to this in significant numbers, not supplanting games or films, but fostering the Dear Esther-style middle ground.
 

kanugo

Member
This and Amnesia are two of the most emotionally powerful games ever. To have their developers work together is promising.

I would like to see this game kick off a new genre of "interactive film," if you would. Like a halfway point between movies and games. Imagine if a new wave of directors started taking to this in significant numbers, not supplanting games or films, but fostering the Dear Esther-style middle ground.

I think we need a thread about that kind of genre and the best games that are similar to Dear Esther -- a recommendation thread.
 
Top Bottom