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[WickedCobra03]

Why? Are you not responsible enough to not spend money that you don't have? There's nothing mystically evil about credit cards.

I just think that you can get into a lot of trouble with them really quickly. I mean I would get maybe 1-2 offers in my mailbox a month while in the dorms and they had multiple thousand dollar spending limits...anywhere from around $1500 to $5000. A kid who signs up for maybe 2 of these cards for whatever... maybe one at an electronics store and then one that they get in the mail could be really easy to spend a ton of money, and then have the interest effect set in.

[EDIT] So on the topic of the restriction, that is total BS. I think banks keep making it easier and easier for consumers to get into trouble these days. Personally I use cash-only just about every where I go since there are not many times per year that I am going to be spending more than say $200 in a day.

 

[Jex]

Personally I use cash-only just about every where I go since there are not many times per year that I am going to be spending more than say $200 in a day.

Seems pretty reasonable. Psychological studies do reveal that people tend to spend more when they're using a card, whether it's debit or credit. It's something about the physical act of handing over cash which makes people spend less.

 

[FlashFlooder]

Just got a $325 rewards check in the mail for last month's statement on one of my Chase cards.

feels good, man. Maybe I'll put it towards an iPad... that's out today, right?

credit FTW

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I just think that you can get into a lot of trouble with them really quickly. I mean I would get maybe 1-2 offers in my mailbox a month while in the dorms and they had multiple thousand dollar spending limits...anywhere from around $1500 to $5000. A kid who signs up for maybe 2 of these cards for whatever... maybe one at an electronics store and then one that they get in the mail could be really easy to spend a ton of money, and then have the interest effect set in.

The only downside of a credit card is if you're a childish idiot and don't realize how credit works. That's it.

If you're responsible enough to even be involved in this discussion you should be using a credit card instead of a debit card. I don't understand you folks.

Listen: There is NO legitimate reason to use a debit card instead of a credit card.*

*-"I don't like paying a bill at the end of the month" doesn't count, it takes 30 seconds online you big babby.

 

[Drkirby]

Just got a $325 rewards check in the mail for last month's statement on one of my Chase cards.

feels good, man. Maybe I'll put it towards an iPad... that's out today, right?

credit FTW

If they are putting caps on Debt Card Transactions, how long do you think your reward program is going to last? I bet you in a years time they drop it.

Spoiler

I only get like $50 to $75 in Amazon gift cards a year :/

 

[FlashFlooder]

If they are putting caps on Debt Card Transactions, how long do you think your reward program is going to last? I bet you in a years time they drop it.

Spoiler

I only get like $50 to $75 in Amazon gift cards a year :/

well, they really have nothing to do with one another... The government has already stuck it's grubby paw into the CC honeypot and done its damage there. Rewards programs survived, in fact they seemed to get better. The credit card business is THE ONLY thing generating real revenue for banks these days. So no, I don't think they're going to drop rewards programs. It's the sweet bait that gets them paid, and it seems in hard times the banks double down to try to catch more fish.

also forgot to mention, my wife and I are flying to France and Italy for FREE this summer, courtesy of the American Airlines card brought to you by Citibank

 

[Nekofrog]

I use a debit card every day. Hate having cash in my wallet, it's a liability.

Now that I have a steady an guaranteed job/income, I've signed up for a few credit cards for the first time in my life. Spent about 3 grand on them already, but not without a solid plan for paying them off.

It's mostly a means of building my credit (my wife's is already great, mine is meh). Bought a TV with one card (no interest for 16 months, 1 grand / 16 months is $62 a month to pay it off with no interest but I throw $100-$150 at it so it'll be paid off fast), and a media PC and new recording computer on the other card (about 2 grand at 12 months no interest, $166 a month to get it paid off without having the interest hit. Pay around $200 on that a month).

I knew what I was getting into with the credit cards and planned well in advance. It wasn't a rush decision or impulse buy; I made certain through budgeting that I would be able to afford the purchases in the given time.

 

[JGS]

The only downside of a credit card is if you're a childish idiot and don't realize how credit works. That's it.

If you're responsible enough to even be involved in this discussion you should be using a credit card instead of a debit card. I don't understand you folks.

Listen: There is NO legitimate reason to use a debit card instead of a credit card.*

*-"I don't like paying a bill at the end of the month" doesn't count, it takes 30 seconds online you big babby.

This has gotten into fanatic zone.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons for using debit cards only.

Even the benefits given for the credit card assume that people are shoppers or actually want to waste time on looking for the best cash back card when they may be fine just using their own cash.

It's like arguing with people to use coupons or mail-in rebates. Now that's something to be fanatical about.

 

[FlashFlooder]

Sorry, but that response is BS. I spent all of maybe 30 minutes (and that's a gross overestimate) researching and applying for my latest CC. I've already collected thousands of dollars in rewards.

I wouldn't call that a "waste" of time.

 

[operon]

Sorry, but that response is BS. I spent all of maybe 30 minutes (and that's a gross overestimate) researching and applying for my latest CC. I've already collected thousands of dollars in rewards.

I wouldn't call that a "waste" of time.

Does the UK have any of these great deals

 

[smurfx]

hmm this thread made me want to use my new credit card as my debit card now. build credit and not fear my card getting stolen.

 

[Stat Flow]

hmm this thread made me want to use my new credit card as my debit card now. build credit and not fear my card getting stolen.

Do it, just read up on them some more, be disciplined and you'll be fine.

But if you don't think you're ready to be making purchases on it every month, don't force it, it's better to wait and learn than fuck up your credit/be in debt.

 

[Bboy AJ]

hmm this thread made me want to use my new credit card as my debit card now. build credit and not fear my card getting stolen.

Do it. There are a bunch of know-nothings in this thread spreading FUD for no reason. There's no reason to use a debit over a cc when you pay off the cc in full every month.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

This has gotten into fanatic zone.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons for using debit cards only.

Even the benefits given for the credit card assume that people are shoppers or actually want to waste time on looking for the best cash back card when they may be fine just using their own cash.

It's like arguing with people to use coupons or mail-in rebates. Now that's something to be fanatical about.

What a terrible argument.

"Why save hundreds of dollars a year when it takes me 15 minutes to check online for a good card?!?!"

And I am using my own cash. My CC auto-debits my checking account every month so it's the same thing as cash, just deferred to the end of the month.

 

[JGS]

Sorry, but that response is BS. I spent all of maybe 30 minutes (and that's a gross overestimate) researching and applying for my latest CC. I've already collected thousands of dollars in rewards.

I wouldn't call that a "waste" of time.

That's because you did it. You are not the collective.

I've collected tons of rewards too. I rarely pay for a hotel room nowadays, but that doesn't mean everyone is looking for that.

Is there a particular reason you & others don't grasp that peace of mind > cash rewards?

 

[njr]

Credit Card Lenders hate it when you pay on time, they don't get interest. Right now, I have all my bills set to autopay on my credit card. Hell, even if you do owe them money and you pay the minimum amount, they'll love you and give you good credit.

 

[JGS]

What a terrible argument.

"Why save hundreds of dollars a year when it takes me 15 minutes to check online for a good card?!?!"

And I am using my own cash. My CC auto-debits my checking account every month so it's the same thing as cash, just deferred to the end of the month.

It doesn't take 15 minutes unless you qualify for all of them. Although gaf has a group speak mentality oftentimes, I never imagined a day that a hivemind would actually take place. The same arguments are being said when they are not universal arguments.

The shock of the century is: Not all people think alike.

Many people are who are perfectly responsible with cash (Which is all a debit card is) feel less so with credit. This is coming from a guy whose job is to sell as many credit cards as possible to the masses and hope they don't pay them off.

Credit cards for daily use is similar to casinos with better odds of payoff. The house always wins with those things too. If they didn't they would all have annual fees and higher rates on them by now. That is the fact of the matter.

So quit trying to encourage people that your method is the best when it's entirely possible it's not to be even if it's the best solution for you.

 

[Zoe]

Credit Card Lenders hate it when you pay on time, they don't get interest.

They still get the merchant fee.

 

[Neo Samus]

From what I'm understand about this, is it only applies to POS (point of sale or PIN based transactions) and not if you use the "credit" option. The interchange fee for credit is more thandebit. Some banks will charge you a small fee (50 cents) if you use your card as a debit. For example, I work at a bank in the chicago area called MB Financial and when you sign up for a debit card, we tell our customers to use the card's "credit option. Meaning that instead of inputting you pin number you sign for the transaction running it under the mastercard (some banks use visa) option.

It is still subtracted from your bank account, it is just the process of how the transaction is performed.

I hope this helps.

 

[JGS]

From what I'm understand about this, is it only applies to POS (point of sale or PIN based transactions) and not if you use the "credit" option. The interchange fee for credit is more thandebit. Some banks will charge you a small fee (50 cents) if you use your card as a debit. For example, I work at a bank in the chicago area called MB Financial and when you sign up for a debit card, we tell our customers to use the card's "credit option. Meaning that instead of inputting you pin number you sign for the transaction running it under the mastercard (some banks use visa) option.

It is still subtracted from your bank account, it is just the process of how the transaction is performed.

I hope this helps.

Yeah, it's a non-issue in the short term except to the Visa/Mastercard/etc... who stands to gain the most.

The merchant loses too.

It does affect consumers though because banks will try to make up the lost revenue or limit services.

 

[FlashFlooder]

Is there a particular reason you & others don't grasp that peace of mind > cash rewards?

You're making the leap that it's one or the other. I have peace of mind AND get huge cash rewards. Why leave that money on the table?

Credit cards for daily use is similar to casinos with better odds of payoff. The house always wins with those things too. If they didn't they would all have annual fees and higher rates on them by now. That is the fact of the matter.

It is NOTHING like a casino! I am not risking a single thing by using a credit card, and the house will NEVER win.


What you mean to say is that irresponsible people shouldn't use credit cards. I couldn't agree more.

 

[razgriz417]

Kind of an OT question about credit cards. I now have 2 credit cards under my name, one from BOA and a Amazon chase card. After getting the Amazon card, I really don't use the BOA card (better rewards and higher limit on the Amazon card). Is it bad for my credit to have a card lying around that never gets used? I've been keeping it around for emergency purposes but I also don't want it to hurt my credit. Should I close the BOA card?

 

[neutralgamer02]

Interesting. I came into this thread a debit card fan, but left as a credit card fan. Hmm... the power of NeoGaf.

 

[Zoe]

Kind of an OT question about credit cards. I now have 2 credit cards under my name, one from BOA and a Amazon chase card. After getting the Amazon card, I really don't use the BOA card (better rewards and higher limit on the Amazon card). Is it bad for my credit to have a card lying around that never gets used? I've been keeping it around for emergency purposes but I also don't want it to hurt my credit. Should I close the BOA card?

It won't hurt you though BoA might close the account on their own if there's no activity. You could put a small recurring bill on there if you don't want that to happen.

 

[JGS]

You're making the leap that it's one or the other. I have peace of mind AND get huge cash rewards. Why leave that money on the table?

Again, that's YOU.

I didn't say it was impossible for everyone, but it is difficult for many. Others are fine with not getting more money back then they spend. If the credit card comopanies weren't offering it, you would be fine too. They aren't interested in taking the chance.

It is NOTHING like a casino! I am not risking a single thing by using a credit card, and the house will NEVER win.

Again, that's you. The credit card companies make their money off the interest of unpaid balances. They are the house. They always win. The reason I said the odds are better is because there are several, like you and me, who pay their bill off and come out ahead. They don't need everyone to "lose", but everyone is still playing the game.

What you mean to say is that irresponsible people shouldn't use credit cards. I couldn't agree more.

Yep, fanatic.

Kind of an OT question about credit cards. I now have 2 credit cards under my name, one from BOA and a Amazon chase card. After getting the Amazon card, I really don't use the BOA card (better rewards and higher limit on the Amazon card). Is it bad for my credit to have a card lying around that never gets used? I've been keeping it around for emergency purposes but I also don't want it to hurt my credit. Should I close the BOA card?

Unless they're charging an annual fee, leave it open.

Further, always check your statements whether you use it or not. Otherwise, it's always better to have available credit. You can even cut it up if you like.

 

[FlashFlooder]

but everyone is still playing the game.

I'm not playing a game. Unless that game is called Winning.

Call me a fanatic all you want, the fact remains that if you don't use a credit card you are subsidizing my rewards.

 

[Jonm1010]

Regulation - it gets passed on!

The existing fee iis one of the good ones for lack of a better word.

It self funds the fraud so you don't have liability.

Not a bad deal IMO and beats fraud prevention being a fee based service like overdraft

STFU.

Our transaction fees are already the highest in the industrialized world. Your really swallowing that it takes 44 cents to process a single electronic transaction fee?

If Chase alone is making 14 billion off this fee clearly that isnt all going to infrastructure, fraud protection and tech support. A Majority - a large majority - is straight profit for a bank that is already making out like bandits off the back of taxpayer bailouts.

If this truly was an issue Chase would come right out and tell the world how much it costs to process a transaction and pay for fraud prevention - afterall if it really was like 30 cents or something it would help their case.

Banks in other countries manage to do this for under 10 cents a transaction and they dont say a peep. I call absolute bullshit on this until they give a solid figure on how much it costs them on average to process a transaction. The silence on that pivotal question should speak volumes given their history and especially Chase's historical business practices.

 

[empty vessel]

You're making the leap that it's one or the other. I have peace of mind AND get huge cash rewards. Why leave that money on the table?

For one, because those rewards aren't as large as you think they are, given that every time you use a credit card for a transaction you are inflating prices. Second, while racking up credit card transactions to earn rewards may be in your personal best short-term interest, it is not in society's interest. Rewards are offered as an incentive to use your credit card so that the credit card company can earn the fees from individual transactions. This should immediately give you pause, since credit card companies are supposed to be in the business of lending money in return for interest. Instead, they are in the business of charging fees to merchants.

Why is this a problem? Because it raises the cost of goods. The fees paid by merchants are passed to the consumer, including you. You might be breaking even with the rewards, and possibly coming out slightly ahead, but in the grand scheme of things you aren't really leaving much if any money on the table by abstaining from the scheme. (Of course, poor people who don't have access to credit cards at all or who get in trouble with them are the real losers in this ponzi scheme. They have to pay the increased cost of goods, i.e., subsidize your use of a credit card, and have no ability to claw back rewards.)

Essentially, all we are collectively doing is inflating the price of goods and placing the burden of that inflation primarily on the poor. You are just breaking even in this scheme, given that the total rewards offered by the credit card companies is obviously much less than its revenue from fees.

 

[razgriz417]

It won't hurt you though BoA might close the account on their own if there's no activity. You could put a small recurring bill on there if you don't want that to happen.

Unless they're charging an annual fee, leave it open.

Further, always check your statements whether you use it or not. Otherwise, it's always better to have available credit. You can even cut it up if you like.

Thanks for the info guys, there's no monthly fee on the card so I'll take your advice just keep it open in case.

 

[Your Excellency]

Wait, so this 1% cashback thing, amazon vouchers, hotel rooms, flights etc...do U.K. credit cards have these incentives for spenders?

At the moment I live in my overdraft (student), so a credit card is a bad idea, but once I start working I'll probably go with the credit card option. Generally very worried about having my card stolen...

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

What a terrible argument.

"Why save hundreds of dollars a year when it takes me 15 minutes to check online for a good card?!?!"

And I am using my own cash. My CC auto-debits my checking account every month so it's the same thing as cash, just deferred to the end of the month.

Sometimes you want to do stuff with cash not using a card, I use m debit to draw as credit cards start charging interest the day you draw.

When doing my budgeting I like knowing exactly how much is going out and coming in. My credit card introduces a month of lag between spending and it hitting my account so it becomes harder to calculate sure I can view the credit card account then compare against debit card account. But its a hassle.

best credit card deal I got at the moment is 1% cash back (not to exceed ~£200) you can't pay for everything on credit so I can assume you will spend a maximum of £10,000 so max £100 in a year please the risk of overspending or incurring a penalty cos you failed to check your card limits or had an overdraft / late payment cos of lack of funds in your debit account probably outweigh the benefits. Especially if you on a shoestring budget.

Credit cards are a good last resort. or when buying big ticket items or in a shady business otherwise put it away and use your debit.

 

[Your Excellency]

You are just breaking even in this scheme, given that the total rewards offered by the credit card companies is obviously much less than its revenue from fees.

Better to be breaking even than losing out.



I'm a stand-up ethical guy and I don't see any particular dilemma here.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Sometimes you want to do stuff with cash not using a card, I use m debit to draw as credit cards start charging interest the day you draw.

Wrong. They start charging interest if you go past the billing period without paying it off.

When doing my budgeting I like knowing exactly how much is going out and coming in. My credit card introduces a month of lag between spending and it hitting my account so it becomes harder to calculate sure I can view the credit card account then compare against debit card account. But its a hassle.

You should be budgeting before you spend, not after.

best credit card deal I got at the moment is 1% cash back (not to exceed ~£200) you can't pay for everything on credit so I can assume you will spend a maximum of £10,000 so max £100 in a year please the risk of overspending or incurring a penalty cos you failed to check your card limits or had an overdraft / late payment cos of lack of funds in your debit account probably outweigh the benefits. Especially if you on a shoestring budget.

What are you getting at? That credit cards can hurt you if you overspend? Well duh. If you can't track your money without a debit card saying "You're all out!" then a credit card is not for you.

 

[empty vessel]

Better to be breaking even than losing out.

I'm a stand-up ethical guy and I don't see any particular dilemma here.

You don't see any problem shifting wealth from the poor to credit card company executives? That's what the scheme does. Of course, the only real solution to this is political, i.e., government regulation.

 

[FlashFlooder]

For one, because those rewards aren't as large as you think they are, given that every time you use a credit card for a transaction you are inflating prices. Second, while racking up credit card transactions to earn rewards may be in your personal best short-term interest, it is not in society's interest. Rewards are offered as an incentive to use your credit card so that the credit card company can earn the fees from individual transactions. This should immediately give you pause, since credit card companies are supposed to be in the business of lending money in return for interest. Instead, they are in the business of charging fees to merchants.

Why is this a problem? Because it raises the cost of goods. The fees paid by merchants are passed to the consumer, including you. You might be breaking even with the rewards, and possibly coming out slightly ahead, but in the grand scheme of things you aren't really leaving much if any money on the table by abstaining from the scheme. (Of course, poor people who don't have access to credit cards at all or who get in trouble with them are the real losers in this ponzi scheme. They have to pay the increased cost of goods, i.e., subsidize your use of a credit card, and have no ability to claw back rewards.)

Essentially, all we are collectively doing is inflating the price of goods and placing the burden of that inflation primarily on the poor. You are just breaking even in this scheme, given that the total rewards offered by the credit card companies is obviously much less than its revenue from fees.

In the grand scheme of things I'd be leaving thousands of dollars on the table if I quit using my cards. It's really that simple.

Also, there's no way that the banks are breaking even with me in a lot cases. I churn CCs like it's going out of style (for signup bonuses) and close the card shortly thereafter. They are making a few bucks from merchant fees on me, that's it.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

Wait, so this 1% cashback thing, amazon vouchers, hotel rooms, flights etc...do U.K. credit cards have these incentives for spenders?

At the moment I live in my overdraft (student), so a credit card is a bad idea, but once I start working I'll probably go with the credit card option. Generally very worried about having my card stolen...

I got an egg money card (in the UK) 1% on everything no matter what it is.

Citi and American Express run similar deals but structured differently (for instance Amex gives 5% cashback but only on certain items at certain spending thresholds). So check your spending patterns and jump in.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

You don't see any problem shifting wealth from the poor to credit card company executives? That's what the scheme does. Of course, the only real solution to this is political, i.e., government regulation.

You're correct, it does hurt the poor, there's no way to argue that. However, there's nothing you can do about it on a personal level so it makes sense to "play the game" and wait for regulation (that won't come).

 

[Jonm1010]

Furthermore basic economic principles make me believe that had congress actually had the balls to address and gut the "too big too fail" banks this would be much less of a problem.

As it stands the top 4 banks have well over 60% of all the money in the banking system today which allows them to collude and raise prices because they basically monopolize the banking system. The next ten banks almost make up 90% of all the money and they all quickly follow suit because many are interlocked in one way or the other with those large banks.

Competition is basically minimal if it truly exists much at all.

 

[FlashFlooder]

You don't see any problem shifting wealth from the poor to credit card company executives? That's what the scheme does. Of course, the only real solution to this is political, i.e., government regulation.

Does everyone really need to be nannied? Are poor people unable to manage their own finances? You act as if these people are being tricked somehow. They're capable of making their own decisions.

Maybe the government should start regulating the cost of goods, too? Wouldn't want anyone to get ripped off!

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

Does everyone really need to be nannied? Are poor people unable to manage their own finances? You act as if these people are being tricked somehow. They're capable of making their own decisions.

Maybe the government should start regulating the cost of goods, too? Wouldn't want anyone to get ripped off!

Fact: The rich have never exploited the ignorance of the uneducated poor.

 

[Vicetrailia]

The only downside of a credit card is if you're a childish idiot and don't realize how credit works. That's it.

If you're responsible enough to even be involved in this discussion you should be using a credit card instead of a debit card. I don't understand you folks.

Listen: There is NO legitimate reason to use a debit card instead of a credit card.*

*-"I don't like paying a bill at the end of the month" doesn't count, it takes 30 seconds online you big babby.

What if you already have bad credit and can't get a credit card.

 

[JORMBO]

I buy everything with debit.

I bought a $0.55 pretzel at Wawa yesterday with it.

 

[Zoe]

What if you already have bad credit and can't get a credit card.

You should look into your options regarding a secured card if you want to rebuild your credit.

 

[FlashFlooder]

Fact: The rich have never exploited the ignorance of the uneducated poor.

Ok, ok. I'm just not a fan of regulation in general.

Calling it a "scheme" though, is a bit much. It's a business like any other.

 

[Your Excellency]

UK guide on credit card cashbacks. Looks like Amex is best with 5% for first three months and 1% after:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cards/cashback-credit-cards

 

[Jonm1010]

Does everyone really need to be nannied? Are poor people unable to manage their own finances? You act as if these people are being tricked somehow. They're capable of making their own decisions.

Maybe the government should start regulating the cost of goods, too? Wouldn't want anyone to get ripped off!

If I am poor and in an unstable employment situation, or worse I lose my job half way into the month - if Im already barely treading water and have no ability to save due to low income. If I purchased my goods knowing my income would have been "" at the end of the month or week but now am unemployed, i am late on my credit card, debt piles up because I cant pay it off, my rating plummets. Or hll maybe I messed up earlier in life and now cant get anything but a secured credit card with money down.

In this shaky life situation, why the fuck would I not rather have the option of just using a debit card so I know I only spend what I have?

Especially when the only reason I cant do that is because some millionaire bankers are pissed they cant charge a higher transaction fee to small business to fund the down payments on their 4 story Viking Yachts?

 

[Pein]

I have no credit card, I'm 20 is this bad?

 

[Vicetrailia]

You should look into your options regarding a secured card if you want to rebuild your credit.

Suggestions?

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

Wrong. They start charging interest if you go past the billing period without paying it off.

Nope CC start charging you interest the day you draw if you take cash out of an ATM. Cash Advance, please check your card terms. I have never seen one which does not charge day one for cash advances. For a purchase on the other hand yes the billing period comes in.

You should be budgeting before you spend, not after.

I usually have a rough idea how much I am willing to part with over a month, once I approach it I reign in my spending. Now I was having problems cos I put most things on the CC but some things (bills) went straight to my debit. So balancing the two was becoming an issue, especially when I had unexpected bills. Had to start transferring things from my savings to my debit.

What are you getting at? That credit cards can hurt you if you overspend? Well duh. If you can't track your money without a debit card saying "You're all out!" then a credit card is not for you.

What I am saying is they can hurt you and the penalty of that hurt can be very severe. It could wipe out your savings for the entire year especially if you don't notice and are just paying off what you thought was there and allow debts to roll over. I have seen people not notice an overspend and allow it to continue for a month or three before sorting it.

I have set my overdraft on my debit to 0 if I go over all I got to pay with is my embarrassment. On a CC if I am not mistaken they give you the money but charge a penalty and impose a higher interest rate.

 

[Sqrt_minus_one]

I have no credit card, I'm 20 is this bad?

If you don't need one then why are you stressing. If you want to build a credit history then jump in and use it wisely. Otherwise keep on trucking.