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Decorated Marine attacked by group of teens outside D.C. McDonald's

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Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Whether the victim is Black, White, Brown, Asian, etc

In threads like this:

People should not be piling on people asking for more information to come out. People should also not jump directly to an accusation that the victim or reporter is lying based on bias. Healthy skepticism is good, but in topics like this where the story first came out and we have to go by what the first reports say, at the moment those accusations are baseless.

I see this in threads where the victim is Black, White, Brown, or Asian and it is getting annoying at this point.
 
Crime stinks. I guess these idiots will be making license plates in jail soon wasting our tax dollars.

Legit shocked people carry $400 in cash in this day and age. We sure this wasn't a drug deal gone bad?
 

hollomat

Banned
Maybe it's me but Im calling bullshit on the BLM comment and the fact that it was racially charged. The fact that him being a marine was brought up to intensify how much the "BLM" crowd is targeting even army veterans is what leaves me so skeptical. I don't believe any of what he said, besides the fact that he was robbed. Everything he said feels made up or exaggerated to me.

Disgusting comment. A man is beaten and robbed and all you have to say about it is that you think he's a liar.
 
Maybe it's me but Im calling bullshit on the BLM comment and the fact that it was racially charged. The fact that him being a marine was brought up to intensify how much the "BLM" crowd is targeting even army veterans is what leaves me so skeptical. I don't believe any of what he said, besides the fact that he was robbed. Everything he said feels made up or exaggerated to me.

Maybe. But let's not stick up for the criminals in this case. That's an odd choice to make when there's video evidence and proof of a jacking.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
He can have all reason to lie. But my comment wasn't based on the fact that he had a reason, I just don't believe the words and the motive behind him getting robbed had all to do with BLM and being racially targeted.

I doubt it had anything to do with race either. He probably just looked like a guy who might have money on him.

Of course it had nothing to do with BLM. A pretty common mugging technique is asking somebody for the time, and when they look at their watch they get rolled. It's just a distraction.
 

FStop7

Banned
Welp, still stand by what I said. I don't think it was racially charged nor did BLM have anything to do with it. I think he was robbed unfairly by a group of repeating criminals brave enough to do this to even a marine.

I don't think BLM had anything to do with it, either. But I don't doubt the victim's account of what was said.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
It's really dumb that some people think BLM is somehow a party or extremely close knit group that takes orders from "leaders". It's an ideology that anyone that believes in the message belongs to.
 

Xenus

Member
I don't think BLM had anything to do with it, either. But I don't doubt the victim's account of what was said.

Pretty much. It was group of people itching for a fight or looking to mug someone. I don't doubt it was said but also I wouldn't wouldn't say it's more likely the beat him cause he was white then they beat him cause the wanted to beat someone and he just happened to be there.
 
Teenagers harassing you must be one of the shittiest situations you can find yourself in. Especially when it looks like it could get physical.

An adult does it, you just fight back. But what are you supposed to do when its a bunch of kids? Punch a kid in the face and try explaining that to the responding police officers.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Except it's not. You can not believe something but don't think they are flat out lying...smh. I... Can't go any further



I have no proof and neither do the police. Go figure right? So there is much room here to be skeptical. I mean, the dude himself said he believes the attack was racially charged. I don't believe the attack specifically was. MCD has the video of the attack, not audio or a documented record of the statements said by both parties. This is moving away from the central fact that he was attacked.



He can have all reason to lie. But my comment wasn't based on the fact that he had a reason, I just don't believe the words and the motive behind him getting robbed had all to do with BLM and being racially targeted.

If you don't believe what he said is true, I.E. that they asked him if he supported BLM, then you are literally calling him a liar. End of story. Maybe you want to try some logical gymnastics and say what you meant was he didn't intentionally make that up but nevertheless you are still calling him a liar.

Sorry, I know you are trying to walk back part of your initial post which was a pathetic rationalization born out of an appeal to consequence but it is not going to fly. Afterall, you have provided zero reason as to why his account of the events should not only be questioned but considered bullshit. Somewhat skeptical is fine, outright insinuating he is likely not telling the truth is another thing entirely.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Teenagers harassing you must be one of the shittiest situations you can find yourself in. Especially when it looks like it could get physical.

An adult does it, you just fight back. But what are you supposed to do when its a bunch of kids? Punch a kid in the face and try explaining that to the responding police officers.

Pretty much. I know intimately of a story from my youth where a person was surrounded by teenagers and when one went to hit him with a skateboard he grabbed him as he swung and threw him then grabbed the next one that was going to hit him and threw him to the ground.

Luckily he was big and it was enough to deter the rest but the wise asses went to the cops and he got arrested for battery and disturbing the peace. Luckily the kids dad that made the complaint knew he was a little shit and later dropped the charges. But it could have been a life altering situation for simply defending himself.
 

commedieu

Banned
Pretty much. I know intimately of a story from my youth where a person was surrounded by teenagers and when one went to hit him with a skateboard he grabbed him as he swung and threw him then grabbed the next one that was going to hit him and threw him to the ground.

Luckily he was big and it was enough to deter the rest but the wise asses went to the cops and he got arrested for battery and disturbing the peace. Luckily the kids dad that made the complaint knew he was a little shit and later dropped the charges. But it could have been a life altering situation for simply defending himself.

You gotta check for cameras these days before acting, hope they are working, and let someone hit you first. Or threaten you first at least.

Shitheels deserve to have their asses kicked.
 
Maybe it's me but Im calling bullshit on the BLM comment and the fact that it was racially charged. The fact that him being a marine was brought up to intensify how much the "BLM" crowd is targeting even army veterans is what leaves me so skeptical. I don't believe any of what he said, besides the fact that he was robbed. Everything he said feels made up or exaggerated to me.

Despicable.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
You gotta check for cameras these days before acting, hope they are working, and let someone hit you first. Or threaten you first at least.

Shitheels deserve to have their asses kicked.

Unfortunately it was in a park parking lot where there were no cameras and he was surrounded.
 
If you don't believe what he said is true, I.E. that they asked him if he supported BLM, then you are literally calling him a liar. End of story. Maybe you want to try some logical gymnastics and say what you meant was he didn't intentionally make that up but nevertheless you are still calling him a liar.

Sorry, I know you are trying to walk back part of your initial post which was a pathetic rationalization born out of an appeal to consequence but it is not going to fly. Afterall, you have provided zero reason as to why his account of the events should not only be questioned but considered bullshit.

I mean, I really don't know what to say to you tbh. You are literally trying to argue semantics lol! Dude, not believing something doesn't make it a lie. This is common knowledge.

You and many others are getting bent out of shape because I took a position to not outright 100% take his entire words as fact but instead decided to "in your own eyes" see it fit to call out the notion that he might be lying and calling him a Liar....

...Hiding in your oh so transparent comments that I am basically trying to call him a racist, as if he had motives to lie because I have some narrative I want to protect. Even to perhaps, link my comment with some pro-blm context that I'm not saying out loud and here you are adding to that same entire idea lol.

You aren't even trying to disagree with me but perpetuate your petty beef with what I said because you believe otherwise and that's okay. I provided no evidence because we have zero evidence to believe what he said is right. And because I and everyone else has no evidence, I can be skeptical of a statement that has no proof. I apologize if bullshit was too harsh of a word to describe how I feel about it but it is what it is.

But furthermore, since it looks like I can't be skeptical of this, I'll leave the thread so you can continue.

And just for the record... All of this was said and not once did I say, his attack was any less disgusting. It was all around a shitty thing for those teenagers to do and I hope they do get found. Bye.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
I mean, I really don't know what to say to you tbh. You are literally trying to argue semantics lol! Dude, not believing something doesn't make it a lie. This is common knowledge.

You and many others are getting bent out of shape because I took a position to not outright 100% take his entire words as fact but instead decided to "in your own eyes" see it fit to call out the notion that he might be lying and calling him a Liar....

...Hiding in your oh so transparent comments that I am basically trying to call him a racist, as if he had motives to lie because I have some narrative I want to protect. Even to perhaps, link my comment with some pro-blm context that I'm not saying out loud and here you are adding to that same entire idea lol.

You aren't even trying to disagree with me but perpetuate your petty beef with what I said because you believe otherwise and that's okay. I provided no evidence because we have zero evidence to believe what he said is right. And because I and everyone else has no evidence, I can be skeptical of a statement that has no proof. I apologize if bullshit was too harsh of a word to describe how I feel about it but it is what it is.

But furthermore, since it looks like I can't be skeptical of this, I'll leave the thread so you can continue.

Im calling you out because you are using logical fallacies to land at the conclusion that this guy either misrepresented what was spoken to him or that the article is making up quotes.

It is really that simple. Why you are doing this is not my place to speculate. The credibility of the logic supporting your opinion is where my issue lies.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I mean, I really don't know what to say to you tbh. You are literally trying to argue semantics lol! Dude, not believing something doesn't make it a lie. This is common knowledge.

You and many others are getting bent out of shape because I took a position to not outright 100% take his entire words as fact but instead decided to "in your own eyes" see it fit to call out the notion that he might be lying and calling him a Liar....

...Hiding in your oh so transparent comments that I am basically trying to call him a racist, as if he had motives to lie because I have some narrative I want to protect. Even to perhaps, link my comment with some pro-blm context that I'm not saying out loud and here you are adding to that same entire idea lol.

You aren't even trying to disagree with me but perpetuate your petty beef with what I said because you believe otherwise and that's okay. I provided no evidence because we have zero evidence to believe what he said is right. And because I and everyone else has no evidence, I can be skeptical of a statement that has no proof. I apologize if bullshit was too harsh of a word to describe how I feel about it but it is what it is.

But furthermore, since it looks like I can't be skeptical of this, I'll leave the thread so you can continue.

And just for the record... All of this was said and not once did I say, his attack was any less disgusting. It was all around a shitty thing for those teenagers to do and I hope they do get found. Bye.

Nice attempt at martyrdom, but nobody is saying "don't be skeptical." And most of your post is transparent deflection from the very real fact, that you have since admitted, that you didn't bother to read the article before jumping into the discussion. Want to avoid this embarrassment in the future? Read the OP.
 
I'm with Aya on this one. Plenty of muggers will spring "controversial" topics on their targets to excuse the situation as a dispute rather than a one-sided attack outright, but this incident actually being racially-motivated by any means is a load of crap. BLM doesn't condone violence and nothing about its message encourages racism on a base level the same way things like Confederate Flag-based ideologies do.
 

Hackworth

Member
Bunch of pricks.

“The kids were asking me if I think that black lives mattered,” Marquez said on Monday.

Yet I'm sure we won't know why this happened.
You ever been mugged? They probably weren't asking because they cared about his answer.

If he says yes, they call him a liar and beat him. If he says no, they call him a bigot and beat him. If he tries to walk away, they pursue and beat him.
Honestly just walking is the best option in these cases because groups of attackers often want to lure people a bit. If you keep moving, those groups won't always engage.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
I mean, this behavior is atrocious, but how is his prior service at all relevant to the story other than to generate extra sympathy and outrage - especially given that basically the only thing we know about the perps is their age and apparently their reference to BLM?
Basically
 
Fast food locations are becoming criminal hot spots. I know a few of the ones downtown have single police watch the door after it gets dark.
 
I believe if he answered he may not have been mugged.



Sometimes people like to feel in control. Not giving in to the question could have pissed them off wanting to hit him and rob him. Seen it first hand a ton of times.

That's my guess, but not saying it's right though
 

Russ T

Banned
Whether the victim is Black, White, Brown, Asian, etc

In threads like this:

People should not be piling on people asking for more information to come out. People should also not jump directly to an accusation that the victim or reporter is lying based on bias. Healthy skepticism is good, but in topics like this where the story first came out and we have to go by what the first reports say, at the moment those accusations are baseless.

I see this in threads where the victim is Black, White, Brown, or Asian and it is getting annoying at this point.

Quoting to give this more attention because I completely agree.
 
Quoting to give this more attention because I completely agree.
But we don't even need to hear the story at all to get technical.

If we actually stopped reporting so much violence, it just may truly help crime go down. Americans system won't let that happen though.
 

Hackworth

Member
Sometimes people like to feel in control. Not giving in to the question could have pissed them off wanting to hit him and rob him. Seen it first hand a ton of times.

That's my guess, but not saying it's right though
In my experience it's stopping and engaging that gets a person beaten.

NZ might just have lazy muggers.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
I'm with Aya on this one. Plenty of muggers will spring "controversial" topics on their targets to excuse the situation as a dispute rather than a one-sided attack outright, but this incident actually being racially-motivated by any means is a load of crap. BLM doesn't condone violence and nothing about its message encourages racism on a base level the same way things like Confederate Flag-based ideologies do.

How in the world can you affirm this attack possibly being racially motivated is a "load of crap."

By all means be generally skeptical of the opinions about the attackers motivation or remain indifferent to all possible motivations(primary, secondary, tertiary etc.) until enough corroborating evidence is available to formulate a more well supported opinion, but you are falling into an ever deeper pit then Aya did where you are actually asserting absolutes about an incident in which you have zero supporting evidence to support such an assertion.

Gut feelings(or more accurately inherent biases) aren't a credible or smart way to determine matters of fact. Even if this turns out to not even have a hint of racial motivation, it will only be because you made a lucky guess and won't diminish the foolishness of asserting absolutes without any supporting evidence.
 
I'm thinking the BLM comment was just to get the victim off balance/distracted so they could sneak up and knock him out. I had a close family member who had something similar done to them before they were attacked (in that case, asking to barrow a cellphone).
 
There is some shameful victim blaming going on this thread by people who just have a political axe to grind.

Who is victim blaming?

Who in this thread is saying that the man deserved what happened to him? I see people questioning the events as they're reported, but the fact that he was attacked is undeniable and I haven't seen anyone that has said that he deserved it.
 
BLM is irrelevant. They aren't a part of it, they're just thieves. It was a ruse, a common tactic used to distract and draw his attention.

I'm sorry this happened to him.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Who is victim blaming?

Who in this thread is saying that the man deserved what happened to him? I see people questioning the events as they're reported, but the fact that he was attacked is undeniable and I haven't seen anyone that has said that he deserved it.
The only thing that edges towards victim blaming that I could see in this thread was the poster asking why they were in the "bad neighborhood".
 

Jonm1010

Banned
The only thing that edges towards victim blaming that I could see in this thread was the poster asking why they were in the "bad neighborhood".

I think victim blaming gets too broadly applied around here.

I don't think I have read any actual victim blaming comments.

There have been a couple attempts at questioning the credibility of the victim's statements that has bordered on indirectly defending the attackers character but that isn't victim blaming in my book.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Snopes already has a page!

I was reading various reports, and yes people here had a definite cause to fear that this would paint BLM in a bad light for no reason. Because it did. You are mostly seeing it on blogs and non-news sites, where they are literally calling them 'Black Lives Matter' Teens in some instances like USMC LIfe which said "Marine war hero from famous Iraq photo beaten and robbed by gang of 'Black Lives Matter' teens".

Also several reports were mentioning a previous incident and places they charged the stolen card; Liquor Store, Five Guys, etc.

So about snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/marine-attack-blm-claim/

The Washington Post appeared to be largely alone in independently verifying Marquez's account outside The Daily Caller's original item, reporting that the incident occurred at a McDonald's on the 900 block of E Street NW. The paper confirmed that police were unable to verify some of Marquez's claims, adding that surveillance video of the altercation wasn't immediately conclusive:

A former U.S. Marine was assaulted at a downtown Washington McDonald’s restaurant Friday night in an attack the victim said was racially motivated, according to D.C. police ... Christopher Andrew Marquez — who attends American University and ran unsuccessfully for Congress in 2014 in California — said in an interview that the attack occurred after several black youths asked him whether “black lives matter” and then called him racist ... The incident was first reported by the Daily Caller, a conservative Internet news and opinion site.

Police could not verify the motive as described by Marquez and said they are continuing to look into the case. Dustin Sternbeck, the chief D.C. police spokesman, said detectives are reviewing surveillance video of the assault but it was not immediately clear what it shows.

“It’s an active investigation, and in this case, as in any other, we’re going to investigate it to the fullest,” Sternbeck said.

Marquez said they were trying to intimidate him, and soon after he said things got fuzzy. He said he believes he was hit in the back of the head with what might have been a pistol ... He said he contacted the restaurant manager about the incident, who he said provided him with some details of the attack. The manager could not be reached for comment.

The bulk of other outlets' reporting seemed to be nothing but unvetted statements from Marquez to The Daily Caller and other outlets. The reporting was uncritical, despite Marquez's own admission that his memory of the attack was spotty. (In one account, Marquez stated that his recollection was jogged by a phone call with Mason about the incident, revealing that some of the details he "remembered" were possibly described or suggested to him after the fact.)

We attempted to contact Mason (the manager with whom The Daily Caller discussed the security footage) but were unsuccessful in reaching him. Another manager at the restaurant said Mason "might" call us back.

We also spoke with an officer from Washington D.C.'s Metropolitan Police Department about the widely-circulated claims, who confirmed that Marquez was involved in an altercation at the McDonald's in question on 12 February 2016. The officer said records indicated that after an interaction between the individuals involved and Marquez, one of the four males allegedly called him a "racist." No details were available about the conversation or events which led up to that point, and even that detail was provided solely by Marquez.


We asked whether multiple news reports citing the Black Lives Matter movement were supported by police records. The officer said there was no indication that any of the individuals were involved with (or even mentioned) Black Lives Matter. The officer confirmed that Marquez was robbed, but we were unable to corroborate reports that his credit cards were used at a Five Guys or a Walmart (or how teens were able to use the cards at a liquor store).

Finally, we asked about Marquez's assertion the teens were sought by police for a "previous incident." The officer said that claim did not match the report.

So while it's true Marquez was involved in an altercation and subsequently robbed, the identities of the suspects remained unknown. Police in Washington, D.C. told us that there was no evidence of a link between the dispute and Black Lives Matter activism, nor did any police reports suggest the teens were already wanted for a "previous incident."

Hats off to The Washington Post for doing their job unlike so many other news outlets and Snopes for documenting it.

This case like many others illustrates THE NEED TO WAIT FOR MORE INFORMATION.
 

hollomat

Banned
Snopes already has a page!

I was reading various reports, and yes people here had a definite cause to fear that this would paint BLM in a bad light for no reason. Because it did. You are mostly seeing it on blogs and non-news sites, where they are literally calling them 'Black Lives Matter' Teens in some instances like USMC LIfe which said "Marine war hero from famous Iraq photo beaten and robbed by gang of 'Black Lives Matter' teens".

Also several reports were mentioning a previous incident and places they charged the stolen card; Liquor Store, Five Guys, etc.

So about snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/marine-attack-blm-claim/



Hats off to The Washington Post for doing their job unlike so many other news outlets and Snopes for documenting it.

This case like many others illustrates THE NEED TO WAIT FOR MORE INFORMATION.

Nothing that you posted contradicts what he said. He said that they asked him if black lives matters. As others have posted above, this was probably a tactic to catch him off guard and has nothing to do with BLM or the robbers being involved in BLM. I'd actually be much more surprised if it came out that the people who robbed him were activists involved in BLM.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Nothing that you posted contradicts what he said. He said that they asked him if black lives matters. As others have posted above, this was probably a tactic to catch him off guard and has nothing to do with BLM or the robbers being involved in BLM. I'd actually be much more surprised if it came out that the people who robbed him were activists involved in BLM.

Did you even read what I posted? They clearly point out that his memory is hazy of the event, his recollection could have been influenced by a conversation, and that the Police have no reason to think BLM was mentioned at all.
 

hollomat

Banned
Did you even read what I posted? They clearly point out that his memory is hazy of the event, his recollection could have been influenced by a conversation, and that the Police have no reason to think BLM was mentioned at all.

I did read what you posted. It says police have no reason to believe BLM activists are involved just like what I said above and from the original article there was no reason to believe it involved BLM activists. What was said though seems to be inconclusive at the moment and will probably be proved later by video evidence.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I did read what you posted. It says police have no reason to believe BLM activists are involved just like what I said above and from the original article there was no reason to believe it involved BLM activists. What was said though seems to be inconclusive at the moment and will probably be proved later by video evidence.

Are you blind?

"No details were available about the conversation or events which led up to that point, and even that detail was provided solely by Marquez."

The officer said there was no indication that any of the individuals were involved with (or even mentioned) Black Lives Matter.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Snopes already has a page!

I was reading various reports, and yes people here had a definite cause to fear that this would paint BLM in a bad light for no reason. Because it did. You are mostly seeing it on blogs and non-news sites, where they are literally calling them 'Black Lives Matter' Teens in some instances like USMC LIfe which said "Marine war hero from famous Iraq photo beaten and robbed by gang of 'Black Lives Matter' teens".

Also several reports were mentioning a previous incident and places they charged the stolen card; Liquor Store, Five Guys, etc.

So about snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/marine-attack-blm-claim/



Hats off to The Washington Post for doing their job unlike so many other news outlets and Snopes for documenting it.

This case like many others illustrates THE NEED TO WAIT FOR MORE INFORMATION.

This article needs to have that same approach applied as well for the time being.

We still don't have a definitive picture of what transpired. Heck this actually makes things even less clear. Including what the order of events of this altercation even was. Whether the statements made to The Daily Caller are legitimate or not. What that discussion was. Who the kids are and their motivations.

Just goes to show the dangers of making assumptions and assertions without having all the evidence available. Skepticism is healthy, declarations of absolutions will always be foolish. There was a lot of the latter in here.
 

KevinRo

Member
Did you even read what I posted? They clearly point out that his memory is hazy of the event, his recollection could have been influenced by a conversation, and that the Police have no reason to think BLM was mentioned at all.

Why are you trying to reach so hard? What is so hard to believe he was assaulted?

He said he remember event A.

He remembers being accosted at the McDonald's in Washington's Chinatown neighborhood by five people between 16 and 21 years old. Most were men or boys. One may have been female.

“The kids were asking me if I think that black lives mattered,” Marquez said on Monday. “I was ignoring them, just because I felt intimidated. I felt how they approached me, it was very hostile. I felt they were really trying to intimidate me and just trying to start a confrontation with me.”

Then event B is where it becomes hazy:

Marquez said his memories of what happened next are a blur. He said the restaurant’s manager later told him that security camera footage shows one of the people hitting him in the back of the head with an unknown object as he was leaving the McDonald's.

“It was a sharp blow to the back of my head,” Marquez said.
 

Cagey

Banned
Whether the victim is Black, White, Brown, Asian, etc

In threads like this:

People should not be piling on people asking for more information to come out. People should also not jump directly to an accusation that the victim or reporter is lying based on bias. Healthy skepticism is good, but in topics like this where the story first came out and we have to go by what the first reports say, at the moment those accusations are baseless.

I see this in threads where the victim is Black, White, Brown, or Asian and it is getting annoying at this point.
Great post. There has to be an understood difference between not believing the story as told without further verification and accusing someone of lying. Skepticism can't just automatically become an active accusation of dishonesty, unless the context of the skepticism would suggest something more than a person wanting a bit more info. Let's not judge a person for wanting more info. Happens too often here.
 
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