It's well deserved. Hillary has gotten the kitchen sink and more thrown at her, even at the debate tonight, where Bernie hasn't really been hit with some of his lofty ideals and how to accomplish them, as well as selling socialism to America in general.
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Democrat Debate 8 [Univision] Agent Smith goes to Washington
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It's well deserved. Hillary has gotten the kitchen sink and more thrown at her, even at the debate tonight, where Bernie hasn't really been hit with some of his lofty ideals and how to accomplish them, as well as selling socialism to America in general.
JesseEwiak
Member
Nobody has ever won a general election by being honest.
I look forward to the Trump ads morphing Bernie into Fidel Castro as speeches of JFK slamming Castro play.
Battersea Power Station
Member
Is that true? Like, is there any research into this?
His version of Trump's David Duke moment.
valkillmore
Member
Wait sorry why did he have to step down?
Macho Madness
Member
I know, right, it's almost like every single politician in the world adapts and changes their positions over time in response to their constituency and situation, because it's literally their job.
Yep, he had no choice but to take that one in the teeth. After this you'll probably see the press start digging a little more and finding similar gems. No one likes getting scooped.
If you watch the full video on YouTube, you see that he does. He says something to the effect of "now they're not perfect" referring to the Castros.
That part was just cut out of that clip.
BrutishMrFish
Member
Glenn Beck stirred shit up and got enough people riled up about some things Van said to the point where Van stepped down.
where the lie tho
Poodlestrike
Banned
"now they're not perfect" is not gonna be good enough, dude.
He clearly framed his response around the question and topic of the video.
In that frame he was discussing the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion and some of the reasons why it failed.
The media as dishonest as is framed it as "praise for a dictator"....when the simple fact is that if you ask any scholar that values honesty, s/he will probably give you the same answer Bernie was voicing.
Daniel Ortega has been elected numerous times democratically so I am not sure how Daniel is now a dictator except for Reagan saying he's cause of the socialist tendencies of the Sandinista movement and Reagan's little Contra war....(of which Reagan should of been tried for war crimes - but again that does not happen to U.S presidents). (Univision trying to bunch him up as a dictator with Castro - goes to show what the representation of latinos is all about - latinos have no choice in the U.S but to watch their crap - theirs and Telemundo's (it's an oligopoly) - when it comes to agenda they're far away from being the standard bearers of "latinos").
Those videos and those records have always been there with Bernie. They were always going to be exploited by Republicans and his opponents no matter what.... the idea that now, in this specific moment, it's somehow a "surprise"......please...the media narrative perhaps.
I didn't gloss about the fact that majority of "latinos" (not Cuban) don't give a damn bleep about the Cuban lobby and their little war with Castro.
Fact is Castro is unanimously popular in Latin America (although diminishing from its peak years as generations come and go) and that thinking, although unpopular in the U.S doesn't disappear when they came over... it's only suppressed by expectations. Not to say all Latinos have favorable opinions of Castro, you have to realize that a massive amount of latinos that migrate to the U.S are mostly affluent enough to do so and usually represent the right-wing (or right wing thinking) in those countries so he does have high unfavorability with a certain block.
RustyNails
Member
Glenn Beck had a thing for him in every show. He dug up some past statements by Van where he supported someone accused of killing a cop. He basically forced Van Jones' resignation.
So was it wrong for them to go back to 96' to attack Hilary?
maabus1999
Member
LoL that isn't renouncing someone.
ShironRedshift
Member
I understand, it is kinda odd... But at the same time, I think we've gotten what we're going to get out of them in terms of foreign policy. While it would be nice if more time were spent on it, it would likely just end up going back to the Iraq vote again and focus on Libya and not be able to escape outside of those areas without some really, really great moderation but unfortunately very few are willing to do what it takes to get these guys on task and get them away from their talking points and rehearsed attacks from each other and stopping them from distracting from other points of attention.
So if more of that is what we'd get, which is how I fully expect it would go based on how the past Democratic debates and town halls that covered it have and am definitely tired of at this point (just wasting too much time on those two topics when foreign policy covers far, far more than just that--not to downplay their importance, but their are many important topics in foreign policy outside of them which also deserve their due which I just feel would not be able to happen), I don't really mind the reduced focus on it.
Dirt that will most likely cost him Florida.
valkillmore
Member
Thanks. Follow up - why was Glenn Beck hard up to out Van?
JesseEwiak
Member
When's the primary in Argentina?
Dude, he's been handled with kid gloves this whole time. You think Hillary's people didn't know this existed? That her opposition research is that incompetent? That the GOP hasn't know this existed? I guarantee you people are sitting on all kinds of shit. Hillary hasn't hit him with it because she can't salt the earth and the GOP hasn't hit him with it because they'd rather do it in the general.
Yes.
I can't believe people are falling for this stuff. This was the Bernie equivalent of the Benghazi question, which was also something that should've been cut from the debate. It's literal GOP tier fodder of tying the word socialism to mass-murdering dictators.
I understand that his nuanced answer is not a good look for electability, but is it wrong? Nah.
JesseEwiak
Member
Hell, give me a week and I could write up scripts for 10 devastating general election ads and I actually agree with Bernie's goals in the long run.
Don't want to be accused of supporting mass murdering dictators? Praise socialism in Stockholm, not Havana.
TheOohChild
Member
Bernie, we need to hear you say that you don't support violent dictatorships. We need to know that you won't disappear people.
You can't have a revolution without cracking some eggs.
As do I and I could do it to, with like no research. This thing alone would be good for like 3 different ads.
Literally everyone on both parties has treated Bernie with the safest kids gloves imaginable to this point. You have no idea how much petty bullshit the GOP would dig up if Bernie made it to the general election.
JHoNNy1OoO
Member
Man you really are tone deaf. He was asked specifically to renounce his praise of Ortega/Castro and he chose not to answer. Keep doing the damage control though. You'll see a clarification from the Sanders camp within 24 hours but the damage has already been done.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Sanders is a bigger liability for a party to nominate than even Trump and that's saying something. I think there are more people that would agree with a racist that hates Muslims than a socialist who will raise taxes in our current politics. With so much on the line in 2016, he is the last person you want to pin your hopes on. I know his supporters don't give a shit, but I do.
RustyNails
Member
Because he's a hard right conservative lunatic. He thinks everything in the government that involves democrats is a conspiracy. He's just an awful, awful human being and theoretically, the true progenitor of Tea Party movement.
I find it amusing that Hillary supporters are saying this damns him when he didn't even say he supported the nasty parts of Castro, et. all. Especially considering her own damning history >_>
Well, it'd be nice if there weren't straight up lies about what his tax plan are being spread by pro-Hillary sites like Vox.
I give a shit and frankly I will vote whoever the dem. nomination is because I more or less have to. But I sure as hell am liking Hillary less and less after this debate. Her outright constant lies on Bernie's positions are getting really annoying.
Well, it'd be nice if there weren't straight up lies about what his tax plan are being spread by pro-Hillary sites like Vox.
I give a shit and frankly I will vote whoever the dem. nomination is because I more or less have to. But I sure as hell am liking Hillary less and less after this debate. Her outright constant lies on Bernie's positions are getting really annoying.
valkillmore
Member
Right. My thoughts too. I wondered if there may have been more to it.
That's the point, none of that matters. If your opponent can find anything that could harm you, they'll use it, no matter how out of context it is.
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
A depressing fact. The socialism boogieman has incredible power over older generations. I agree with 99.9% of Bernie's policies but it's tough to see him survive the Republican smear machine :-(
Plasticine
Member
Better it happen now than Bernie be nominated and get wrecked with it in October.
RustyNails
Member
Do you think if bernie is the nominee, the GOP comes together and says that they will not go before 1999 to find oppo research on him? I mean, they went to Obama's hospital to see if he was really born there lol
NullPointer
Member
He said there were improvements made in their healthcare and education that were part of the reasons that people didn't rise up to overthrow Castro.
And some are responding like he's buddies with Kissinger.
But he'll get hit on this regardless so fair enough, and he needs to know how to deal with this angle of criticism and attack.
My point is the Hillary supporters are saying this is proof he can't win in a general and that we need Hillary.. When she has tons of skeletons in her own closet and is already teetering on her own electability and trustwrothiness factor. It goes both ways here.
BrutishMrFish
Member
What lies, specifically?
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I think the problem is trust. I have trouble trusting her. We have shared values, but she's also a meticulous, calculated politician.
JesseEwiak
Member
FADE IN ON BERNIE SANDERS
Sanders: "Castro did a lot of good things -"
CUT TO AN ELDERLY HISPANIC LADY
Woman (In Spanish): Fidel's stormtropers killed my father. Fidel's secret police sent my son to jail for daring to speak his mind. Fidel's cronies raped my daughter. Fidel's policies made my have to escape his country on a leaky vessel that barely could be considered a boat.
*The woman begins to cry*
Woman (In Spanish): Come tell me Senator Sanders all the good thing Fidel did.
PAID FOR BY THE AMERICANS AGAINST SUPPORTERS OF DICTATORSHIP
crisdecuba
Member
Gotta agree with your assessment. It was a poor answer, especially since he was given a clear second chance to renounce.
I do wonder why candidates have a hard time sometimes in distancing themselves from "bad" people. Obama had a bit of a moment in a debate with Clinton over Louis Farrakhan (though he ended up on top in that exchange), Donald trump recently had his KKK/David Duke moment, and now Sanders with Castro... Just say "I totally renounce and reject and move on."
They tied Reverand Wright to Obama. The political process is nasty. They could use this alone to say Bernie supports dictators.
The right already won this cycle last I checked.
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