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[Carpe Libertatem]

What the fuck is with the DNC. Jesus Christ.

You get money the same way fucking Kickstarters get money, you offer the public something they want and can get excited about, to inspire to hope and to dream

Kinda like Star Citizen. It's a premise that your imagination can run wild with. Or like the pre no man's sky hype.

Co-opting an email list will do fucking nothing if you aren't offering a product that does the above.

How do they not get it lol? Aren't they all Harvard grads?

I think you're the one who doesn't understand the value of email lists. They come with much more than just emails and they're often microtargeted at people.

If Bernie cares about advancing progressivism in the U.S., he's going to have to work with the DNC, which means providing voter and email data as is customary. Email lists get shared all the time (and sometimes sold!).

 

[RumblingRosco]

Bernie has no obligation to help the DNC. I voted Bernie in the primaries and Clinton in the general, but still, the DNC needs to get their heads out of their asses and focus on things that really matter.

They raised plenty of money during the general and still got wrecked. What do they want to do with the email list that would give them any boost come 2018? They're seriously chasing a red herring.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

If they wanted to sign up wouldn't they sign up.

I don't sign petitions out of fear of them giving my info and email away, political figures doing the same sounds shitty.

This. They signed up for Bernie, not the DNC.

Work with Sanders and hash out who his base is and what they want, absolutely, but straight up giving the information away is a breach of trust and privacy.

 

[jtb]

Bernie has no obligation to help the DNC. I voted Bernie in the primaries and Clinton in the general, but still, the DNC needs to get their heads out of their asses and focus on things that really matter.

They raised plenty of money during the general and still got wrecked. What do they want to do with the email list that would give them any boost come 2018? They're seriously chasing a red herring.

like?

 

[dave is ok]

like?

Winning elections with candidates that people are excited to vote for

 

[whyamihere]

I mean, I don't understand why they wouldn't give the email list up. Seems kind of a silly thing to hold out on when we're trying to save the country.

This. They signed up for Bernie, not the DNC.

Work with Sanders and hash out who his base is and what they want, absolutely, but straight up giving the information away is a breach of trust and privacy.

Do people not realize that this is a very common thing for politicians to give up once they lose a primary?

 

[Boke1879]

This. They signed up for Bernie, not the DNC.

Work with Sanders and hash out who his base is and what they want, absolutely, but straight up giving the information away is a breach of trust and privacy.

Like his campaign did?

 

[jtb]

Winning elections with candidates that people are excited to vote for

care to be a little more specific about how we get to "candidate people are excited to vote for"?

(fun fact: hillary won more votes than bernie. clearly, popularity contests aren't the end-all in this)

I mean, I don't understand why they wouldn't give the email list up. Seems kind of a silly thing to hold out on when we're trying to save the country.

Depends on if the Bernie folks see themselves as part of the "we". No Trump speeches at Goldman, so far as we know, right?

 

[Rentahamster]

Here

It sounds like 2 people discussing theories about possible situations in which a Trump presidency could influence the future in unexpected ways. Even Robert Scheer says, "there's a lot of truth to what you're saying".

 

[PatThePassive]

This. They signed up for Bernie, not the DNC.

Work with Sanders and figure out how he appealed to his base, absolutely, but straight up giving the information away is a breach of trust and privacy.

Hell he could send out an email to his list of a link to sign up for the DNC list, but being political Gaf we all got to line up on opposing sides and argue about the democratic party every opportunity .

 

[Boke1879]

Winning elections with candidates that people are excited to vote for

So people more exciting than Bernie AND Hillary.

 

[Back-In-Black]

How so? The Young Turks are a good channel for info and analysis.

 

[jack_package_200]

So people more exciting than Bernie AND Hillary.

Essentially.

 

[CHC]

How about producing a candidate who I might actually independently choose to give my email to, you bums?

 

[Tomohawk]

I think you're the one who doesn't understand the value of email lists. They come with much more than just emails and they're often microtargeted at people.

If Bernie cares about advancing progressivism in the U.S., he's going to have to work with the DNC, which means providing voter and email data as is customary. Email lists get shared all the time (and sometimes sold!).

I think with Bernie its a little different. He's popular because he's seen as an outsider. He should allow access to their email list, but be careful about how he does it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's fascinating how whether Sanders is or isn't really a Democrat directly correlates to which ever one allows some folks to get mad at the Democrats over at the current time.

 

[Abounder]

"They keep thinking it's the list," says Becky Bond, who as a senior adviser to Sanders helped build the candidate's national organizing operation. "It's so crazy. It's like someone who buys a $12,000 bicycle and thinks they can win the Tour de France."

So good. DNC is not only corrupt but goddamn incompetent, terrible.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Do people not realize that this is a very common thing for politicians to give up once they lose a primary?

I wasn't aware of that, no, but I don't see how that contradicts what I said.

If I was a Bernie supporter and was on his list, I wouldn't want my email being given to the DNC or anyone else.

It's fascinating how whether Sanders is or isn't really a Democrat directly correlates to which ever one allows some folks to get mad at the Democrats over at the current time.

This cuts both ways. People justify him being given less of a boost than Hillary by saying that he isn't a democrat, then say he's a democrat so he should be playing nice with the DNC.

 

[jtb]

How about producing a candidate who I might actually independently choose to give my email to, you bums?

If you're not politically motivated by the threat of Donald Trump, then what exactly will motivate you?

this is a general "you," fwiw, not like you specifically. Like, really. Which part of a Donald Trump presidency is so fucking appealing to progressives that they are happy with it? Which part brings them closer to single payer healthcare or protecting social security or raising the minimum wage? Or, you know, regulating Wall Street?

 

[GoldenEye 007]

How about producing a candidate who I might actually independently choose to give my email to, you bums?

The next battle really starts next year. It would seem to be a bit more efficient to purchase a list rather than build yet another one from scratch in order to be campaigning for 2018.

But sure, let the infighting continue. The RNC/GOP thanks everyone.

 

[jacob armitage]

How so? The Young Turks are a good channel for info and analysis.

They occasionally have some good discussion, but you have to be really careful. I do like Ana Kasparian and John Iadarola enough to occasionally watch and some of the guest hosts can be good, but the rest can be really hit and miss with their reporting, style, insight and integrity.

I only ever really watch TYT when its relevant to the a discussion at hand though. I will say though, i do love the name.

 

[Boke1879]

The next battle really starts next year. It would seem to be a bit more efficient to purchase a list rather than built yet another one from scratch in order to be campaigning for 2018.

But sure, let the infighting continue. The RNC/GOP thanks everyone.

Pretty much. People can stay salty instead of trying to get house and senate people elected and continue to fight while the GOP clean up.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The real exciting news I got from this article is that Jeff Weaver is still around running things.

You want to talk about moving away from people who lose elections...

 

[jtb]

Pretty much. People can stay salty instead of trying to get house and senate people elected and continue to fight while the GOP clean up.

Doing nothing is easier than doing something. Hey, it was someone else's fault!

 

[whyamihere]

I wasn't aware of that, no, but I don't see how that contradicts what I said.

If I was a Bernie supporter and was on his list, I wouldn't want my email being given to the DNC.

Because the candidates are supposed to come together for a common cause after the election to help defeat the opponent. It's why Cruz gave (I mean, Trump paid) Trump his email list this year.

 

[jtb]

Because the candidates are supposed to come together for a common cause after the election to help defeat the opponent. It's why Cruz gave (I mean, Trump paid) Trump his email list this year.

It's almost like Cruz recognized that he could pass his agenda with a member of his party in power! And that he wouldn't be able to if a Democrat was president.

You don't really need to be a member of the party to understand that even the most conservative Democrat is far more progressive than the most moderate Republican.

 

[Raonak]

The DNC should see why Bernie was so successful and try emulate that formular instead of trying to force themselves upon his followers.


The age of old politics is over.

 

[Rentahamster]

That's quite the rebuttal.

They occasionally have some good discussion, but you have to be really careful. I do like Ana Kasparian and John Iadarola enough to occasionally watch and some of the guest hosts can be good, but the rest can be really hit and miss with their reporting, style, insight and integrity.

I only ever really watch TYT when its relevant to the a discussion at hand though. I will say though, i do love the name.

The style isn't for everyone. Considering that they were the only ones, along with Democracy Now, covering the Dakota pipeline stuff back before it was popular, they have good integrity.

They also have a non-corporate revenue stream, which is good to have when considering objectivity.

Of course, TYT isn't the ONLY thing someone should watch, but it's a good part of a complete media diet, in my opinion.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The DNC should see why Bernie was so successful and try emulate that formular instead of trying to force themselves upon his followers.


The age of old politics is over.

I mean successful is a highly relative term.

 

[royalan]

Oh for fuck's sake, the list is useful for MORE than just fundraising.

The list is DATA.

Jesus, you'd thinking a gaming and general tech enthusiast forum like GAF would get that...

 

[CHC]

The next battle really starts next year. It would seem to be a bit more efficient to purchase a list rather than build yet another one from scratch in order to be campaigning for 2018.

But sure, let the infighting continue. The RNC/GOP thanks everyone.

If you're not politically motivated by the threat of Donald Trump, then what exactly will motivate you?

this is a general "you," fwiw, not like you specifically. Like, really. Which part of a Donald Trump presidency is so fucking appealing to progressives that they are happy with it? Which part brings them closer to single payer healthcare or protecting social security or raising the minimum wage? Or, you know, regulating Wall Street?

I'm not infighting, nor will I ever abstain from voting when another Trump presidency or GOP-dominated House / Senate is at stake. I'm just criticizing the idea that simply emailing uninterested people is some silver bullet that will lead them to victory.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

The DNC should see why Bernie was so successful and try emulate that formular instead of trying to force themselves upon his followers.


The age of old politics is over.

Bernie lost the primary by a wider margin than when Hillary lost to Obama in 2008. Ultimately he could not do enough to secure the nomination - supers or not.

However, don't you think it would be helpful to get a foundation of information to build upon and try to reach out to, rather than start from complete scratch? As long as the messaging continues the very progressive platform that Bernie influenced and was adopted, why wouldn't those people be somewhat receptive to those policies as candidates start to identify themselves in the next year?

Edit: CHC, Where is anyone saying that reaching out stops at email campaigns? Nowhere.

 

[Rentahamster]

How about Elizabeth Warren? Or is she now a tainted dirty establishment traitor?

She's still got potential.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Because the candidates are supposed to come together for a common cause after the election to help defeat the opponent. It's why Cruz gave (I mean, Trump paid) Trump his email list this year.

As I said, Bernie and the DNC working together is good.

Giving away people's information isn't good, even if it's normal and expected.

edit: As PatthePassive said, Sanders should have urged people on his email list to sign up for the DNC's.

 

[whyamihere]

I'm not infighting, nor will I ever abstain from voting when another Trump presidency or GOP-dominated House / Senate is at stake. I'm just criticizing the idea that simply emailing uninterested people is some silver bullet that will lead them to victory.

It's not, and I don't think there's anyone who earnestly believes this. All of these quotes are from Sanders people, for what it's worth.

 

[water_wendi]

As I said, Bernie and the DNC working together is good.

Giving away people's information isn't good, even if it's normal and expected.

Its the standard Democratic response to pretty much everything "The Republicans do it, why cant we?"

 

[kirblar]

You love blaming Obama for all the failings of the DNC.

I'm not saying it was a shining beacon of competence before his presidency, but he deliberately chose to run away from the problem rather than try and fix it. And it cost us.

 

[whyamihere]

As I said, Bernie and the DNC working together is good.

Giving away people's information isn't good, even if it's normal and expected.

It's normal, it's expected, and it is good.

Its the standard Democratic response to pretty much everything "The Republicans do it, why cant we?"

??????????

 

[wildfire]

If you're not politically motivated by the threat of Donald Trump, then what exactly will motivate you?

Signing up to donate isn't the same as pulling a lever. I never donated to the DNC and I voted any way. Why should people who don't even identify as Democrats offer immediate fealty?

 

[jacob armitage]

The style isn't for everyone. Considering that they were the only ones, along with Democracy Now, covering the Dakota pipeline stuff back before it was popular, they have good integrity.

They also have a non-corporate revenue stream, which is good to have when considering objectivity.

Of course, TYT isn't the ONLY thing someone should watch, but it's a good part of a complete media diet, in my opinion.

This really isn't always the case, I've been following TYT for a very long time. The good part is, and this does back up your statement to a degree, that if they make mistakes they tend to be very honest about it and own up. They can be very misleading with information however, overact and skew/spin things heavily for their perspective to a point of unfair bias. They tend to have a lot of double standards too, criticizing others despite using the same techniques themselves just from a leftist view.

I'm glad TYT exist and i find value in what they do, and their revenue model absolutely needs to be praised, but you absolutely need a lot more to go off for solid opinions on current affairs.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Its the standard Democratic response to pretty much everything "The Republicans do it, why cant we?"

What?

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Im pretty sure the people on the bernie list that isn't on the DNC list know how to donate to the DNC if they wanted to.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Its the standard Democratic response to pretty much everything "The Republicans do it, why cant we?"

And I'm sure you have the magical key to reversing the RNC domination that is now over this country at every level of government - local, state, and federal.

 

[JustenP88]

I mean successful is a highly relative term.

Ffs, the dude came from being a practically unknown, self-proclaimed "socialist", non-religious, 70+ year-old senator from goddamn Vermont to winning like 22(?) states and over 40% of the vote against a freaking Clinton. Either Bernie far exceeded expectations (duh) or Hillary was even more useless as a candidate than a lot of us thought she was.

OT: Bernie doesn't owe the party shiiiiiiiiit and, while I don't particularly care because I think I'm on all the lists at this point, a lot of people are averse to having their data passed around without their consent. A lot of people want to have little or nothing to do with the DNC. That's their prerogative. I understand hesitating to hand that stuff over on principle.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Oh for fuck's sake, the list is useful for MORE than just fundraising.

The list is DATA.

Jesus, you'd thinking a gaming and general tech enthusiast forum like GAF would get that...

Not only that, but for all the people saying that the DNC needs to figure out how to reach out to people... Giving them this data will help them figure that exactly how to do that.

It's not like they're going to take this email list and immediately start spamming them with "please donate money!!!"

 

[jtb]

Signing up to donate isn't the same as pulling a lever. I never donated to the DNC and I voted any way. Why should people who don't even identify as Democrats offer immediate fealty?

The same reason anyone participates in democracy. Because they believe in something? Because they are self-interested?

Who said it's fealty? It's a means (donating money) to accomplishing an end (electing politicians, getting policies passed, whatever). Literally nothing more than that.

It accomplishes the same end as voting, it's just a different means.

Ffs, the dude came from being a practically unknown, self-proclaimed "socialist", non-religious, 70+ year-old senator from goddamn Vermont to winning like 22(?) states and over 40% of the vote against a freaking Clinton. Either Bernie far exceeded expectations (duh) or Hillary was even more useless as a candidate than a lot of us thought she was.

Horseshoes and handgrenades.

 

[Gruco]

This "The list isn't magic" argument is pretty dumb. The existence of magical properties of the list is obviously not the question.

Bernie got a lot of attention during a presidential campaign cycle. Why can't the DNC replicate his success? Because it's not a presidential campaign cycle anymore.

His donors include a huge number of people with marginal attachment to the Democratic party, but who are committed to progressive causes and to fighting Trump. Off cycle fundraising is hard. Little things make a difference.

It's a shame the instead of stepping up to move the party and country in a positive direction, Bernie is just again being obtuse and missing the point, while his fans tote out the old nonsense DNC grudge as an excuse.

There's no good reason to keep it a secret. But I know better than to expect constructive behavior from this guy by now.

 

[LosDaddie]

DNC is in shambles and should shoulder the majority of the blame for the powerless Dem party.

Why they waited so long to copy OFA will always be a mystery.

Every time I read behind-the-scenes stuff about the DNC, I'm shocked at the level of sheer incompetence.

But they told us that Abuela was the most qualified candidate ever to run for president.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

But they told us that Abuela was the most qualified candidate ever to run for president.

She was.

But it was clear that qualifications and actual real policy had no place in the election this year.

 

[Count Dookkake]

DNC, just enjoy the show you helped set up. It's really quite exciting.